chevy8ford

great idea guys, also new to promming but i was wondering would this work with the 747? Sorry for the newb question, but this may be coming at the perfect time for my 88 tbi firebird and some upcoming tuning issues.

THanks,
Mike

MrBill

Yes, it will work with the 747.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

So what's the projected release date for this miracle? Buying a burner and chips would be a huge waste of money since this thing would be so easy...

Ken73

We're trying to work all the bugs out before we release it. We've worked a bunch out, and gone through a major redesign already. I'm hoping to have a new prototype within a month? After it's tested and working, we'll be working on producing them.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Thought about letting people preorder?

87Formula391S/C

iTrader: (1)

knows he'll be ordering two ...... LOL:hail:

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

my thought exactally.... Id pre-pay to get in line.



Im keeping my eyes on this one..... and saving both pages befor this thred disapiers like the c4 and c5 brakes 2 did.

iceman02

iTrader: (1)

Sounds bad*ss! I'll be keeping tabs on this thread and checking it every several days, too! I need to start programming soon and this looks really promising to a newbie like me.

Ken73

Let us get through the prototyping stage of the new version, and we'll consider taking pre-orders. The new version is smaller, and will also be the "Pro" version everyone's been asking for. (Tune-on-the-fly.) We'll still be offering the "standard" version for a lower cost, however.

We just want to test it repeatedly before we release it.

chevy8ford

awesome, can't wait guys keep up the good work thousands of camaros and firebirds eagerly await your finished product...no pressure

scorp508

Forgive me if I missed this, but is this compatible with Tunercat Realtime edition?

Ken73

Scorp, we're still building the prototype, so once we get that built and working, we'll probably talk to TunerCat about supporting it.

I'm not sure how the Romulator works, but with our system you'll make your changes, then have a seperate "save/upload" button to send the changes to the Prominator. You'll be able to do this while driving, at least with the Pro version you will.

scorp508

Ken, to the best of my knowledge that is how the romulator also works. You can make the changes while driving. I'll be watching this.

resinlake

*wets his pants* ok first I saw... doing 4th gen interior dash in a third gen, so now I wont do a fabbed fiberglass dash afterall, and and.... now this??? ahh! *wets his pants* ok man... tune on the go? I thought I was dreamn, and you must both be sandmen right?? guess Ill get use for this laptop afterall... so its just, plug her in, run the program, upload the bin to the chip through your setup, unplug from notebook, and badaboom, Ive got my tuned car. I like I like, or I can do realtime tuning while the cars on, ever nicer, I'll go that route more expensive, but better to do it right the first time, count me in guys, you rock!, let me know when you are finished pleeease. Your awesome, my project is starting really really soon, 85 camaro, 26,000 original miles, yepp, this would be a nice add on!

kevinz85

I am way new to this but would this better for the beginer?Will this work for th 16198262? :hail:

Colt

This is very interesting.

Hey guys, take it easy on all the questions. Let them do all the prototyping. And when the project is just about finished then fire away with all the questions. But, I'm sure by that point they will have some sort of FAQ sheet make up already.

resinlake

Ive noticed that some of these questions have helped them think out some options though and improve on their awesome, awesome, *** given talent that has inspired them to.... change editing as we know it


:hail:



:lala:

Colt

Resinlake, that's a good point.

MrBill

The thought is appreciated Colt, but resinlake is right. Much of the redesign is based on feeback from asking questions. I certainly don't mind answering what I can when I can, and I know Ken doesn't either.

resinlake...I wish the knowledge was ***given. Not until about 6 years of night classes to earn a BS in engineering (which I only finished a few months ago!) and the past 10 years learning the hard way (letting the smoke out on the job) have I been able to do this kind of stuff. It was a very long hard road (not to mention expensive!), but well worth it. Anyway, thanks for the compliment.

Kevin, unfortunately I am not as intimately familiar with a lot of different ECM models as others, but it should fit just fine in most any C3 or P4 ECM that uses an EPROM anywhere between 16K and 4M. Maybe Craig (or another) could answer whether it will fit better than I.

Bill

Coqpit

This is one of the best ideas I have seen for the third gen f-body. I can't wait to get my hands on one One thing I suggest is to try and get a patent on this product so some big company (or anyone for that matter) won't dupe it and charge triple for it. Keep up the creative thinking guys

Dave

vexter

iTrader: (3)

The patent process is long and costly. Going that route could well force these guys to charge triple for it... at least until they recouped their $$$. Also, if these guys are charging $250 for the Prominator Pro, it doesn't make sense for someone else to produce it and charge $750. Who would you buy yours from?

I do agree that this is going to be a godsend for thirdgen enthusiasts.

va454ss

iTrader: (1)

I'm interested in this for the 16147060 PCM.

Will it eventually be available for this app?

I'm holding off getting any tuning equipment to see how this works or even if it will work in my app.

lavamadness

If I'm not mistaken.. with the Romulator, you can change stuff on the fly, but they recommend that when you're done you burn a proper chip and put that in. Is this going to be the case with the PROMinator? Or can you just set it up once and leave it?

Ken73

Actually we *have* looked into patents, and we probably will at least get a "patent pending" status on it. It doesn't cost a lot to do that, and it won't be a cost we'd have to pass off to our customers.

As for the 16147060 PCM, what EPROM/EEPROM does it use? As long as it uses a PROM/EPROM/EEPROM, the Prominator should be able to replace it.

The Prominator differs from the Romulator in that the Prominator *is a permanent replacement* - you do not need to purchase a chip burner, nor chips, nor an eraser. The Prominator totally eliminates the need for any of that equipment. Buy one, solder it in place, program it, then forget about it. The idea was to bring the total investment of PROM burning down, AND to introduce in-car tuning as well; all in one package.

lavamadness

That's what I had thought, but the alternative popped into my head and wanted know for sure.

Like va454ss, I'm holding off on buying prom equipment to see how this pans out.

Will it be possible to do the bank switching like Craig Moates has on his site? I like the idea of being able ot just turn a dial and get a performance tune, economy tune, emissions tune, valet tune, etc etc.

iroctpis

im ready to buy a pro version when you are!

va454ss

iTrader: (1)

27C256

jfreeman74

So, once again.... When is this going to be for sale?

MrBill

Yes, you will be able to store and select from multiple BIN images (that's not what I call bank-switching though). This will be selectable via software instead of a **** or switch.

va454ss: yes it will directly replace a 27C256

Some problems with PCB fab pushed us back a bit, but I'm spending every spare minute I can scrounge on finishing up the logic and software development.

It's gettin' close...I can feel it. I'm somewhat motivated too...my Vette still has a stock ECM in it...and that just won't do!

Colt

Good things take time.

Tom

Teeleton

:hail:

I'd heard rumor that this was in the works, but I had no idea it was so close to production! And right here in the hometown, too! I can't wait until my ROM burning days are over. Finally.. some trackside tuning (my ROM burner is ghetto). I guess I need to hurry up and do my '7730 conversion so I'll be ready when this hits the street.

:lala:

Teeleton

yellow73bb

It would be nice to have the ability to switch between different rom images without having to hook up the computer. e.g. switch to stock for emissions testing, and back for normal, or high performance when I drive, a bit lower when my teenage son drives, etc. (by the way, my teenage son won't get near my vette yet :-)

Unless this is just for tuning, and then people put a ROM back in when they get it tuned. Then, I guess switching from the computer is just fine.

jamesbob02

All I can say is WOW! The upfront cost was definitely what was keeping me from PROM burning, and this solves that! I just decided today that I was going to commit to learning chip tuning - this is going to make it so easier guys! I really hope you get it done soon cuz I'm salivating!

nape

iTrader: (1)

I'm really going to ditto that remark. I know my setup has a ton let in it from a tuning stand point, or at least my A/FR gauge tells me that.

Definately let me know when you guys get done with this. I really want to get into chip burning but I could never figure out which setup was the best for burning.

sbc350

Any new devlopments? been following the thread.

Price? Availibility?

jamesbob02

Yeah I'd like to know what's going on, too!

I hope you guys don't take this as being impatient! I doubt that all of us are sitting here with our arms crossed, tapping our feet, and checking our watches. More like a sitting here going "I can't wait!" So I hope you don't mind our asking like every day!

jamesbob02

Any progress? I had to hastily order my Stealthram in order to get in on a good deal, but I'm gonna need to sell off my TPI immediately to recoup some of the cost....hence, I'll have to tune this thing pretty soon. Just wondering! Thanks.

Ken73

Bill ran into a minor snag with the newest prototype, but past that we're on track. I can't really offer a "production run date" just yet though, at least not until we get one working and tested.

Craig Moates

What kind of issues are you having? I know on my project, there seems to be a challenge with respect to the logic buffering on the data lines going out to the ECM. Been looking at the waveforms on the CE line (OE is always low), and it's just squirrely. I'm using discrete logic rather than CPLD, but the principle should be the same.

Don't know if this is just symptomatic of the 1227165, but it is really on the move (CE). I've got a screenshot of the scope I can send if you're interested. Seems like straight-shot to the ECM is OK for data request off the memory chip, but then buffering the request and the subsequent data is a little more tricky.

If the request dynamics are different on different ECMs (I'm sure they are), then that would explain why something like the Romulator/Romutator/whatever doesn't work on 93 LT1 systems, but works on others.

Anyways, just throwing some stuff around info-wise. Don't know if it'll be much help. I can definitely get you some signal traces of some different lines if you think it might.

MrBill

Craig, it's more of a 3.3V/5V hybrid issue. The logic level thresholds of the ECM micro are just about 150mV too high to use a 3.3V CPLD (damn CMOS!)...but I had to try as the 3.3V CPLDs are about half the cost of a 5V. Oh well.

Shoot me an Email with some scope traces...I might have some ideas. bill@misterbill.homeip.net


I should have the new CPLDs by Friday, and I think the software is pretty close.

Bill

rhuarc31

Heck yes, put me in line too

Craig Moates

Yes, those 5v CPLDs are not real common anymore. I've got about 100 or so in the drawer but they're the 44pin dealies. I was looking at some other stuff (like 144-pin stuff), and they're pricey big-time. Power sucking and slower too. But certainly up to the task.

I'll pull some traces off the screen capture this weekend and shoot them out. I think it's primarily a decoupling inadequacy issue on my AVR/logic/RAM array, but there's the possibility of crosstalk being present as well off the ribbon cable. Wonder if a ferrite sleeve would help for crosstalk? I guess it could, right?

MrBill

Na a bead probably won't help crosstalk much. 'bout the only thing that will cure crosstalk is shielding between signals traveling over the ribbon. If you could somehow use a .050 pitch ribbon and connect every other conductor to ground that would cure any crosstalk issues. Some foil or copper tape on the cable will help, if you press it down into the grooves between conductors as good as possible and make sure to connect the foil to ground.

If you're getting "ringing" on the signals you can try about a 110 ohm termination resistor (to ground) at the destination end of the signal. If I remember correctly 110 ohms is roughly the characteristic impedance of flat ribbon cable.

If you think you don't have enough decoupling then FIX THAT! Decoupling is crucial.



As for the prominator...the programming of the Flash ROM seems to be working fine. There is still a bug in the verify routine that I just found tonight, and that I don't really understand right now...but it IS 3:30am so that's not surprising

I should mention the reason this is taking longer than originally expected...which is because I am working full time again now. When we started this whole thing I wasn't working at all, then went to 3 days a week contracting, now I am a full time employee again...which feels pretty darn good since I have not been working steady for about three years now. I do apologize for the delay, but hang in there guys...I'm very close to a working prototype.

Bill

Skip Fix

I'm in Houston and I've got a buddy who could use you Prominator. E mail me if its stil a project.

jamesbob02

They're still developing it.

SBNova

I was just about ready to buy the hardware to burn my own chips, and then I read this!! DEFINATELY put me in line, when its ready I WILL BUY IT.

MrBill

Well I've been working on this thing alot this weekend...and just to prove it:





The thing in that little vise with all the probe-thingies hanging off of it is a prominator board.

Actually I did make some good progress today, after a hardware bug here...software bug there (damn sounds like I need an exterminator!), I have successful programming and verification of the flash ROM. Now I just need to make it get along with the ECM and we're in business.

Almost there!

TonyC

iTrader: (1)

Absolutely awesome Craig, keep up the excellent work. Ummm I'm not sure if this has been addressed, as far as I can tell, no, but will this work with the 8746?

Thanks
T-bone

MrBill

Tony,

This is not one of Craig's projects.

Yes it will work with the 8746.

TonyC

iTrader: (1)

Shows how much I've been paying attention...Awesome work MrBill and co.!