Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Because collapsing just like that is a problem with the lower hose like I said earlier. If the pump is spinning the wrong way it is pumping in reverse flow which would cause suction on the upper hose.

tyeo098

I think I get it now, the pump not only sucks, but blows as well. Attributing to the lower pressure in the bottom hose, and higher pressure in the upper hose. (In a properly working system, at least) I was thinking the block was the start of the system, when actually the radiator is the start.


and good night!

MintWS6FORMULA

And those are the people who will be kicking themselves in 10 years. And those 81 year olds who cut the split window out of their '63's back in the mid 60's will be kicking their a**es for them wondering why they don't learn from other people.

tyeo098

Part number off the old pump:
10108451

Which says its for a serpentine belt system??

Well its nasty anyways.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I thought I saw an A/C delete pulley on the car. Check the routing of the belt. Does it go around the crank pulley on the passenger side and to the water pump on the drivers side? Or some other route that makes it spin clockwise? It absolutely should not collapse like that when revved.

tyeo098

Thus is what I wrote down:


I apologize for the silly drawing

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

That has it spinning the right way. Here is a similar problem to what you have and leads back to the things I mentioned. Pump cap and thermostat. Thermostats normally fail open and are designed to, but anything could be happening here. I don't buy the plugged radiator theory because it would collapse the lower hose.
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/gene...-revved-10514/
http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-138086.html
and another
http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20911

tyeo098

The way it was on seems to be the incorrect way according to this pic. If this pic is correct, anyways


Pulled from here for 1988?
http://sethirdgen.org/serpentine.htm
I got a new rad cap and thermostat too just in case

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Scratch the, it is running the correct way routed like that

tyeo098

But then the image labeled 1989-92 has it the way I have it. PO said the engine was from a later bird?

I have no idea.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Beginning to doubt myself even. Go with what you have and the routing it was in before. I think we are overthinking it. If all this fails I'm at a loss other than a weak hose, but I have never seen an upper collapse like that.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Try just the cap first and see if it builds pressure in the system and stops that.

tyeo098

Well I already got the new pump on and the water neck off for the 180* tstat.

So I'm pretty much ***** deep in this one lol.

First time using a torque wrench though. So that was pretty cool!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Certainly won't hurt, but it would have been nice to know for future reference.

tyeo098

Sorry :/

This is what the old cap looked like btw

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Go with your gut Joe. Pretty sure that was the first thing I said to check LOL.

tyeo098

would that cause the upper pipe to get squeezed down though though?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Once it builds pressure to 16 lbs that wont be a problem

tyeo098

ok so putting the belt on should I put it the original way or should I put it the way that was specified in the first picture?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

The second pic is how you had it run before and it has the pump running CCW.

tyeo098

It liiiives! Kinda.

Tstat opened up nicely, top tube got nice and warm, revved the engine and it stayed rock solid! Then backfired and scared the shiz outta me. But I still havent done timing yet because apparently no one in the state of NY has a timing light taht works


Was it the pump? Was it the radiator cap? Tstat? Dunno, but 80$ later and everything seems to be working just fine.

Temps lookin mighty fine


The old 195 Tstat, for reference, it was pretty nasty and stuck in there.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I'd bet dollars to donuts it was the cap. You can put it back on and test the theory.

tyeo098

Eh, The old pump was pretty corroded anyways, and looked pretty old. It was probably going to fail soon anyways. Now I got one with a lifetime warranty!

I tested the old cap, and the engine got a bit hotter, but I shut it off since I don't want to idle away too much gas so I can go on a cruise later up and down the driveway and test how it does at speed.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Good way to look at it. In hindsight though, the cap held no pressure like that. When the pump sucked through the radiator the pressure was lower than the outside so it collapsed.
You were running good temps the whole time. The coolant just boiled at a lower temp at atmospheric pressure than it would at 16lbs. You will be fine IMO. Timing, and find out how that fan is run. If it doesn't have a relay operating it you can burn your car up.

tyeo098

Makes sense. Well now we can all better help the next guy Thank you for all your help!

So about this fan, would I start by unplugging or shorting the relay?
Should the fan come on when the car is off but keyed to 'ON' position?

And it seems my headers, Casting #10110810 are LO5 350sbc swirlport headers. Primary purpose: Boat anchor. Awesome.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

You're welcome, sorry we got sidetracked.
As for the fan. Only when it's up to temp. If it comes on with the key when cold it's wired direct. Could have run a ground to trip the relay which would be ok (sort of). Also could have run a hot wire from the ignition to the fan, most common way people do it and very not ok. The relay should be mounted to the A/C box.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

The sensor you see in the left of this pic is the one that controls the fan. The wires could be connected together somehow to make the fan come on too.

rusty vango

wouldn't it be a lot better to just replace the relay and the sensor with the correct parts? who knows, it might just work as designed.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Trying to figure out why it is constantly on. The PO may have jumped it to keep the fan on BC the thing was boiling over. The system may be functional when it's hooked up right. Trying not to throw money at it randomly since I'm sure a teen has little to waste.

tyeo098

And I'm listening very carefully since I just dropped 80$ on a water pump and friends when a 7$ radiator cap was the culprit

Here's the mapping of the fan relay
C A
F E D
Lines indicate which pins are connected internally (at least that multimeter cans till do that)
That look right?


Oh and I just got back from a drive and there were no bubbles when I was done!

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

They are pinned out to A, black and red 12v+ Supply to fan, E,orange 12v+ constant, F, Green/white ground signal from the ECM & coolant fan switch & D, brown 12v+ hot with ignition on. Just went through this the other day, if A and E are connected internally, relay may be bad or jumped inside. Check with the plug disconnected from it and check the A&E pins on the plug. Check F for resistance to ground on the plug.

tyeo098

I hope this makes sense.

Both D and F are grounded, but one has a higher resistance to ground than the other.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Sorry A&E won't be the culprit, that would keep the fan on without ignition. Looking for F grounded or A hot with ignition and relay unplugged. Unplug the sensor on the intake and test resistance on the two wires of the plug to see if it is jumped along the wires.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

So F is grounded on the plug side? Pull the connector on the sensor by the thermostat and test it again, test resistance between the 2 wires on the sensor plug

tyeo098

Oh, and all these tests are done with the car and key in OFF.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

PM sent

tyeo098

So moral of the story:
Pin F on the relay was grounded to the chassis via some random wire installed by PO, aka Red Neckerton.
This wire being important as when it is grounded the fan starts.
So I need to figure out where pin F was SUPPOSED to connect to, and reconnect it there.

tyeo098

Aha! I think.

Bottom right, it does connect to the ECM. I'm guessing rando wire that was shorted to ground was actually supposed to connect to pin E8 on the ECM, with the other side of the relay being connected to 'HOT IN RUN'

Now I just have to find out where the ECM and E8 are... and mate the 2 back together.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

You said it was an 88 89? throttle body. Diagram says it has a single wire temp switch. It would be in the passenger side head between 6&8 plugs not ECM controlled. If it's there connect the black wire you took loose to it and you're good.
Did I give you another diagram than this one?

tyeo098

This? Its so far down the only way I figured it was there was by sticking my phone down between the wheel well and the engine and snapping a pic! In order to connect it I'd probably have to pull the engine out! lol

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

BINGO Now you need a connector

tyeo098

This?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pc...kzQaAs7g8P8HAQ

Order of business tomorrow is to do this and get the casting number.
I'm starting to get the feeling its a '94 C2500 350TBI Truck engine, based on the headers at least. Its def. not the original engine.

tyeo098

Wait, isnt that the knock sensor?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

That's it. You can hook the black back how you had it for the time being. Naturally, be prepared for it to run a little hotter with the fan not constantly on. .
This is one too
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coolant-Fan-Switch-Connector-Pigtail-Wiring-88-92-TBI-Temperature-Camaro-/121256701898?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3b766fca&vxp=mtr

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Knock sensor is in the block not the head

TheExaminer

Yip. I bought that exact connector a few months back because my secondary fan was running all the time. The old one crumbled in my hand when I took it off, and had insulation missing in parts of the wires. "Well THERES yer problem......." The hardest part was trying to marry the car wires to the new connector. Not much room to move around down there.

tyeo098

What are the downsides to having the fan run all the time?

Will it affect highway driving or something?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If it runs too cold, poor(er) mileage, more stress on the alt, possible fail on emissions if you have them in your state, damage the cat with more unburnt fuel, condensation in the oil. Running too cold can be damaging just like too hot on a daily driver, especially if you winter drive.

rusty vango

well having it "correct" is WAY more satisfying than ... the other option. try and remove as much of "Mr. Neckertons" fixes as you possibly can. the obvious reward is not having to constantly be noodling with it. cuts down on creative profanity too!

TheExaminer

....not to mention premature fan motor burnout.... I didn't like mine doing that either, so I fixed it. I think the guy who owned my car was cousin to the guy who worked on yours. They did their own kind of fixes. I found a bolt stuck in the end of the vacuum line that runs into the heater bypass valve. Apparently, something was wrong with the controller, and this is the only way they could get the heater to work. Joy. They also moved the top hinge of the drivers side door backward 1/8" and shimmed the bottom hinge to match, mis aligning the entire door for no apparent reason. I still have no idea whatsoever why, because I took the shim out and moved the top hinge back, and it looks fine now. Whatever they did had window alignment, latch and everything else about the door screwed up. People just slay me sometimes. If you're going to fix it, fix it right.