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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Temp gauge sending unit goes in the driver's side head. Fan switch goes in the same hole in the pass side head.
Without those holes, you have to do extra ... w.... w..... wo.... {I just threw up a little in the back of my mouth}.... work {pppppppppuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuke}
Those heads have the place for it; just needs to have all the extra metal that's hiding the hole, cleared out of the way. They make tools for that. (hole finders) Not too much of that nasty 4-letter word I struggled over so bad in the last paragraph.
Unless there is some other benefit than aesthetics I will just leave them on the front of the intake where they currently are then...
Still trying to figure out a way to make work happen without any inputted energy... so far it's not WORKing out. HA... that's a knee slapper right there.
Oh yup, just looking at your info. Any work done to the heads? Your cam looks a little bigger than mine, but I've got a few more cubes so might be comparable. What does yours make? Any 1/4 mile times?
I done some work to the heads. I bought the heads bare and put them together myself. I did some light clean up work on the intake ports, mirror finish polished the exhaust ports and chambers and done some bowl blending.
No actual track times on this combo yet, but I have ran it using a Gtech meter and a 'test road' and that shows 10.60's @ 126 mph. The trap speed is a tad high because of the way the Gtech measures the speed vs. how they do at a drag strip.
My old combo ran 11.40's @ 118, 1.60's 60' times at track.
My suspension/chassis/tires are....
Nitto 555R 275/60-15 drag radials
Spohn adj. LCA
Spohn LCA brackets
Spohn adj. panhard
KYB AGX adj. rear shocks
Moog Iroc rear springs
Airlift drag bags in rear springs
Spohn SFC
Jegster adj. torque arm
S&W 10 pt. roll cage
Stock worn out front struts
Stock V6 front springs
Okay, not very comparable to my build haha... that thing is stout. Must be making close to 500whp with those times? I was reading there may be a step from the cnc cutter on the intake ports. I might try to clean those up with my dremel. Idk how much I will be able to do with that little thing. I have only been able to cut a 1.88 60' on street tires so far. No real suspension parts besides lcr brackets that came on the s60 and adjustable shocks from summit. Boxed lower control arms too. On street tires I would like to see 12.0 - 12.4...
Thanks man, yeah it's a pretty stout build. Yes the brodix IK heads may have ridges of steps made by the cutter. My own IK 200 heads didn't really have much issues, but my Dad's IK 180s needed a lot more work to clean up the cutter steps.
The dremel aint gonna cut it (pun intended). If you have an air compressor pick up a cheap harbor freight $10 air die grinder..
If no compressor, pick up a cheap off brand $20-40 elec. 1/4" shank die grinder.
This is where Amazon Prime helps. grinder, burr and stones on order.
1.88 feels like it's hooking pretty good for street tires. They are 245/70r15 6-year old Firehawks. The car gets pretty good traction on the street too. I can get 1st to hook pretty good.
I've got it almost all tore down. Looking at some differences between the old setup vs the new.
#1 Throttle cable bracket - The old doesn't look like it will work with the new manifold without modification, I will order the jegs adjustable deal.
#2 Coolant ports - I want to drill and tap the ports on the heads. No reason I can't use a regular hand drill to do it right? I'll use a center punch and a series of bits.
Other than that everything looks good. No signs of any other damage besides whats on the heads. I'm trying to get one of the IK200s on so I can measure for pushrod length by Tues.
Drilling the size hole needed for a 3/8" NPT thread (or 1/2" NPT, depending on what thread the original sensors use) might be a bit much for a hand drill.
NPT threads are much BIGGER than their official stated size. They were designed to carry a pipe of a given size THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THEM, so the threads themselves are much bigger than that size.
I've often handed the heads AND THE SENSOR YOU WANT TO PUT INTO THEM to a local machine shop for that work. It's not just the large hose size, it's also that NPT threads are tapered. The deeper you run the tap the further "in" the sensor is going to sit in those threads.
The only problem is one of the heater core hoses is going to the intake... So I would need three ports on the intake and I only have two. I don't want to run one of the ugly tstat housings with the ports. My heat already doesn't work but I want to have it hooked up so I can easily fix it when I do it. It's there another way I could run the heater core hoses?
I just realized there are two ports at the rear of the intake I can pipe into. So my heater hose will go on the passenger front. Temp sender will go on the rear passenger. Fan switch will go on the rear drivers side.
Yeah there is a bunch of options depending on what you have. Same intakes have 2 ports, some has 3, some has 4 and I seen a couple with 5 ports.
For heater house routing, depending on your rad. You could go from heater core to water pump, and heater core to rad.. Some rad. has a nipple on the pass. side tank right below the cap for a heater hose.
You can even buy or make a fitting with threaded hole for sender and nipples on the end to go inline with the upper rad. hose or heater hose
I'll have to check the radiator for the nipple. I was thinking of putting a wye in before I noticed those other two ports in the back.
Good news: I can use the same pushrods, the length is right.
Bad news: I had 0.015 head gaskets in there before, so going from 58 to 64 combustion chambers will really drop the compression by 8 tenths. I'm not thrilled about that but at least I won't have to find 93 octane everywhere I go. I have no idea what the deck clearance is... maybe I can measure it with my caliper tonight to get an accurate compression ratio.
You could go from heater core to water pump, and heater core to rad.. Some rad. has a nipple on the pass. side tank right below the cap for a heater hose.
That wouldn't work. Both of those connection do flow TO the pump or TO the radiator. Neither one would flow TO the heater core... The water pump fitting(s) are on the suction side and would be a return from the heater core, same as the radiator (return from heater core, although not really suction ).
The heater core supply would have to come from the intake manifold (or head, or block for the nit pickers. ). Besides the typical front of the manifold, you could run a really short hose from the rear of the intake to the heater core.
Bad news: I had 0.015 head gaskets in there before, so going from 58 to 64 combustion chambers will really drop the compression by 8 tenths. I'm not thrilled about that but at least I won't have to find 93 octane everywhere I go. I have no idea what the deck clearance is... maybe I can measure it with my caliper tonight to get an accurate compression ratio.
Use a flat metal across the bore to support a dial calipers and stab down with the end bar.
Measure across the pin axis/line and use average several measurements/several cyls. The piston rocks along this axis so take that into account as u look for a good location to measure.
There is a way to measure piston volume with liquid. Yes even with the short block in the car. Just like a head chamber u use a piece of plexiglass with a hole in it to add liquid - hole goes to highest location of the bore. The trick is to use some thick grease like red grease to seal the plexiglass to the block. I tried this with white lithium and failed as just as i got close to filling the vol under the glass the liquid would leak out (man that was a bad day). Then some guy posted how he did this with red grease and had the pix to prove it. I guess red grease is thicker and strong enough to hold the plexiglass on. Dont forget to seal the ring crevice volume with grease also or the liquid will leak into the oil pan. Some guys dont use oil as it is to viscus and slow and sticky. Some guys use alcohol or i think plain old gas would work to. But u need a "graduated" cyl to measure how much u pour in to fill the piston vol - 1mm = 1cc.
BTW u have to have the piston at TDC for this so u need an accurate TDC also.
Yes once u measure the vol above the piston then measure the chamber vol of the heads (may want an average here) u will nail your compression ratio with the greatest accuracy possible.
Hope this helps more than it confuses u and good luck. Let us know your results please - it helps us all.
I have no idea what the deck clearance is... maybe I can measure it
Absolutely; but not with a caliper. That's almost like a 4-letter word.
Use a straightedge and a feeler gauge. Measure all 8 and weep.
For measuring volume, go to the drug store and get one of those dropper things for giving medicine to babies. Use anti-freeze as your fluid. Alcohol or gas would be bad; kinda hard to get grease to seal reliably when flooding it with solvent.
Just do it.Get the Summit heads A.K.A IK200 put them on and step away from the dremel.You'll be up and running in no time with no problems and good horse power and torque numbers.
That wouldn't work. Both of those connection do flow TO the pump or TO the radiator. Neither one would flow TO the heater core... The water pump fitting(s) are on the suction side and would be a return from the heater core, same as the radiator (return from heater core, although not really suction ).
The heater core supply would have to come from the intake manifold (or head, or block for the nit pickers. ). Besides the typical front of the manifold, you could run a really short hose from the rear of the intake to the heater core.
Hmmm.... We have plumbed them like that for many years. (10-12 years on a couple of the below listed cars)
My dad's 82 firebird 337 twin turbo build is hooked like that. His N/A 355 before the turbo was, my '88 camaro 355 was before I removed the heater, my '88 S10 is now.. All had/has working heaters, normal running coolant temps, and no issues
Well on second thought, maybe I don't NEED to get an exact compression ratio measurement after all haha. I don't have most of the tools needed to do it right nor do I want to take the time either. I'll bolt it together and enjoy it!
I'll run the hose right back to where it was on the intake just for simplicity.
I got both heads off now. I need to change over all of the rocker studs from the old heads to the new. I do want to clean up the intake ports a bit. Then I am ready for assembly after some cleaning.
Mine seemed to be fine. I sharpy'd the stem and used an adjustable pushrod and 7.300 looked to be okay. It was maybe 25 thou too far towards the valve... seemed fine to me? Barely noticeable that it wasn't perfectly centered.
Well, started it up last night. I still need to time it and adjust the carb, but man… I can clearly hear the difference already just from two quick revs 2500-3500 rpm. Sounds a lot crisper and throatier.
I had to deal with a couple issues during assembly. The ARP bolts I had were either junk or they recommended a way high torque spec (80 ft-lbs). I broke one and yielded a handful more. I got new Manley bolts with the same chromoly material and tensile strength. They recommended 55-60. I went to 60 and everything felt good.
I found one badly bent pushrod, and a handful others that seemed very slightly bent. Bought a new set and got everything lashed.
Other than that everything went together pretty well. The spring return assembly with that jegs throttle cable bracket was WAYYY to stiff so I had to use my old springs and attach them to the linkage in a different hole, but it feels okay now.
I am going to change the oil and time it tonight then take it for a ride. I have a feeling it’s going to rip.
Test drive went successfully. No issues. I set the timing to 36 total and it wound up fast to 63-6500. Noticeably more power than before especially above 4k which was expected. Still messing with the idle circuits a bit but it's running pretty good right now.
Hopefully in a few weeks I will get it back to the dyno and see some numbers.
I took a trip to the same dyno last night and was pretty happy with the results! 404 horsepower and 430 ft-lbs. I am really surprised with that torque! I was hoping to be right around 400 horsepower. Had a little hiccup every few pulls but other than that it ran well.
My only problem is how rich it is under 4,000. Is there any way to tune that out?
I took a trip to the same dyno last night and was pretty happy with the results! 404 horsepower and 430 ft-lbs. I am really surprised with that torque! I was hoping to be right around 400 horsepower. Had a little hiccup every few pulls but other than that it ran well.
My only problem is how rich it is under 4,000. Is there any way to tune that out?
IMO, don't worry about it with your top-end curve as smooth and steady as it is.
I thought that too, but I don't think it is. Reason being is that every pull it clears up at the same rpm. Some pulls started at 2,000. I can't see the accelerator pump putting out enough fuel to cause that condition for about two seconds.
Well rich on acceleration is good but hi 12's to low 13's is where u want to be A/F. Demon like Holley transition A/F can be changed by several things. Pump shot, PVCR's (holes behind the pwr vlv called pwr vlv channel restrictors), main air bleeds. Only 2 choices for the pump - stay with the 30cc pmp. And there are a bunch of cams u can toy with. U also have options for the nozzle(s) too. For the PVCR's common practice for Holley owners to drill, tap and install replaceable air bleeds in those holes. But i expect those PVCR's would affect the entire fueling curve rather than the transition. I might think u want to reduce the size of your PVCR's. Main air bleeds are used to fine tune the transistion between idle and main circuits. Easy to access and swap out - just make record of what u started with and what u have tried. Sorry but i dont know which way to go with the air bleeds but hey they is cheap - just dont dropp'm down the carb.
07-29-2015, 06:50 PM
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