87tpiformula

I call BS. Between me and my father we have owned 11 thirdgens, 305 tpi with the 5 spd is actually pretty quick. If you know how to drive it.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

obviously the kid is hurt because he tries to race his slow car and when he gets beat by modern technology he cries...

saying not to race a 305 is just stupidity, anything can be modded and remember someone will always be faster.

i'll race anything with my 305.

88blackiroc

iTrader: (1)

Lucky.... Your lucky it was had its doors open!

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

keep it going this thread is cracking me up. my car may run a 15.0 now but im not gonna be the kid that drops 1000s of dollars into bolt ons and runs a 14.00 ive been saving my money for awhile now, and when i spend it, i promise my combo is going to be correct and its not going to be a bolt on 350. ps stop tellin me about ur 14 sec 305 cars, thats stil slow.



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88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

savage 388 is right tho 11.90s is kind of high as a street car benchmark considering i have not driven one. but i have driven enough 13 sec cars to say they are boring and 12.90 is a more reasonable goal for a street car


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mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

sounds like you're doing it wrong....and your 350 will be slow too

at 19y/o, i didn't have much wordly perspective either, and argued similarly as you do now...fast cars are relative, and what you don't seem to have a grasp on is that racing is all about having fun. telling someone that they shouldn't race a car that is slow or pour money into something that might not be fast in your mind is totally ludicrous. let people enjoy what they want.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

im savin all my money to do things right the first time. how many gen 1 engines did you go thru before you went Ls??


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mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

my car is a bit of a test mule...i had three different 305's (1 was a bottom 13 second combo, the other 2 were 12.3x combos). two different 350's, one went 11's, the other went 12.1x's, and i've had 3 different lsx engines, one that was a 12.0 combo, one that went 10.7x's, and the current one is untested at the moment, but should go bottom 11's. i get bored and try different things.

all of these combos have been pump gas, street driven, full interior.

what have you done?

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

it must be nice, i cant afford live like a princess and build 5000$ motors on a whim. but there are muliple 400s for sale around me and a 427bbc in a friends back lot .so when i drop my savings into my bomb il will be faster then my brothers vette(13.50). or i wont waste my money.


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mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

who says i live like a princess? i work hard for what i have and everything i've done is on a shoe-string budget man. none of those engine combos were $5k, most were under $2k actually(the exception being the 6.0 that just came out of the car, and i will fix it when i get the extra cash). i've been at this a little longer than you too, so it's no surprise that i've built 6 or 7 combos in the last 10 years or so.

so get off your high horse, and go and try to do something, instead of just bench racing.

redneckjoe

i bought my first 3rd gen in 1988. it was an 84z-28 with a 305. it might not have been the fastest thing by far, but i had tons of fun with it & i got the fever to go faster. i kinda credit that car for getting me into the hobby. thank God i didnt buy a *****! i remember racing a pantera with that 305 & we were neck and neck many times.

i have to agree,...having fun is what its all about.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... lmao, you gotta be kidding me! Your planning on possibly a 427 BBC just to beat your brothers Corvette that runs 13.50? Gotta love that rumpity rump while smelling like fuel everywhere you go lol. Your making the biggest mistake in thinking that cubic inches is the end all be all in terms of making power, but hey, to each his own. Would you like to see a pumped up TPI-L98 shoved into an Oldsmobile Bravada running 11.00 on all fours? Don't get swept up in the bigger is better mentality, there is a reason why Nissan's 3.8 GTR can run low nines while idling like a kitten without even doing a burnout.

IMissMy86TA

I had an 83 Camaro back in 83 V6 coupe
Dad helped me buy an 86 TA with 305 TBI in 85 - had the first 86 in town.
now I bought my own 88 GTA 305 TPI with 5-speed with 21K on the clock.
I have had all stock and will never change that. I will still give any stock 350 of the 3rd gen era a run for its money. Happy with what I have even if I would get beat. drove a Genesis coupe back to back and although its a second quicker 0-60 mine felt much faster and was much more fun to drive. both were stick.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

yea im not really feeling the big block thing. but i kno of multple 400 blocks, short blocks,and complete engines for sale near me and i kno if i cam, intake,carb and header a 400/406 w/ 3.73 gear,2000stall, and 275x tires i will put down a high 12. And il smoke him from gas station to gas station


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88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

[quote=Street Lethal] Quote:

Originally Posted by 88FormulaF_Bomb
there is a reason why Nissan's 3.8 GTR can run low nines while idling like a kitten without even doing a burnout. [/quote yea awd, a sequential gearbox and 50psi will push my s10 into single digits


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Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

50-psi lmao? Your kidding, right? Your S10 wouldn't even make it out of the driveway with you as the builder because you don't know what the hell your talking about lol. You do realize that the Alpha 12 GT-R makes 1200-RWHP at only 30-psi, right? Exactly how much horsepower do you think it takes to run in the nines? Hell, my buddy Carmello's GT-R runs in the 10's at only 17-psi, would you like to see the video?



Hell there are TTA's with little Buick V6's running in the 9's at only 30-psi. You do realize the size and flow of the turbo dictates how much air is actually moving at a given psi, right? The point is, 427's and 400's are no longer needed, so while you build one of those engines up, my money will still be on the Honda that is running next to you because you don't have a clue how horsepower is really made...

Oh, and, AWD doesn't make that much of a difference when you know what your doing, as I doubt I will come across any GTR that can pull this launch off...

1.25 Sixty Foot

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

you missed the point bud. im sayin you can make power reguardless of displacement w/ boost. but when u consider the things you must do to an engine to handle a turbo, it is easier,cheaper,less complicated, and more reliable for me to increase displacement when im only tryin for 12s-11s not 9s


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Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... which is exactly why I responded to your thread in the first place, bud. You do not need a 400 small block to run in the 11-12's, a 350 will easily get you there. The reason why I mentioned GTR's is because of the symmetry behind the build. It has the correct drivetrain matched with a properly built engine to run the numbers that it does. If you can't get a 350 to run in the 11's with the proper heads, cam, gearing, stall and tune, then there is something seriously wrong. I am doing you a tremendous favor, bud, because I have been there and done that. As for things you must do for the engine to handle a turbo, I'm sitting here scratching my head asking myself what it is that I myself did with my turbo SBC other than Cometic head gaskets. Stock cast parts, such as the ones that I currently run, will easily survive 15 pounds of boost pressure provided your timing, air temps and exhaust temps are kept in check, and if you want natural aspiration on the cheap, then a 350 is the way to go, your gas mileage and wallet will thank you in the long run.

Podium

iTrader: (2)

So 13 seconds is boring but 12.90s is ideal?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... hmm, that would make 12.80's the shizznit.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

all trolling and bs aside. with a single plane intake,holley 750, hogged out stock heads,mild cam, 4.10 gear w/ 2200stall on corvette 275/45/17s i would expect a 12.90


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Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You do realize that cam specs and carb jetting make the difference in terms of proper stall speed, gear and tire size selection, right? A simple cam swap has a tremendous effect on ET, so you just can't say "mild" cam then follow it up with a 12.90 index. The way you just throw parts out there reminds of how the older racers back in the day would run their setups, they weren't too well thought out. Hogged out stock heads does nothing, they need to be ported properly with the correct camshaft specs and fueling to compliment your stall, tranny gearing, and rear gears. Your tune will make or break your ET as well...

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

041 casting,2.02,1.60 valves, with alot of port work, comp 08-423-8 , edl. performer rpm,holley 750, 2800 stall, 4.10 gear, vette 275/45/17s


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Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The Edelbrock Performer isn't a single plane intake like the one you mentioned in post 71 though. Decent roller cam, but not necessarily mild though. With properly ported heads, and assuming the tune is dialed in, 11's is easily attainable with a 350. Again, no need to go with a 400...

Dakota W.

A 305 will run mid 12s with H/C/I, full exhaust, correct gear ratios, and a tune. Mid 12s is probably a bit conservative actually.

Phenom-1

[QUOTE=88FormulaF_Bomb;5424266]keep it going this thread is cracking me up. my car may run a 15.0 now but im not gonna be the kid that drops 1000s of dollars into bolt ons and runs a 14.00 ive been saving my money for awhile now, and when i spend it, i promise my combo is going to be correct and its not going to be a bolt on 350. ps stop tellin me about ur 14 sec 305 cars, thats stil slow.

Then your going to hate the fact that L98s with 3.23 are also 14 second cars, and if your main goal is to be the fastest guy out on the road your wasting time in a thirdgen, I don't see every thirdgen out there being a 10 second car, I'm the kind that likes an original low production rare car like my Z28 preserved and not modded to the Shìt. If you want to keep up with new stangs or Mitsubishi EVOs that run 11s on boost, I look into the 4th gens and drag specific cars for the drag strip. I'll take a New ZL1 over a Toyota or Mitsubishi and Over a bare bones strip only thirdgen. but That's just me.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

lethal, the problem with stayin a 350 is that anything i do to my car ,my brother can do to his and il be back at square 1. a tpi c4 can break into the 12s with just a ported intake and headers.


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88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

i already have all of those parts minus the gear and the vette rims. but when i read about a 14sec built 350 on here i thought was a waste of time



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cIaRmOaCrZo

do u even like your 3rdgen? sounds like you dont want to "waste time on it" anymore, or wanting to like it for something it is not. who cares about ET when your driving around on the street??? i know i dont because my efi 383 is not even set up for the track, because making it perform its best on the strip will start to sacrifice streetability, and what fun is a full trim car you can barely drive on the street? thats why i wasnt too pissed when i made over 200hp more than my previous engine and only ran 1 second faster in the qtr, because i didnt do (tires,gears,ect). so can you not enjoy your car as an 88 formula l98 car? its not a c4 vette, so yeah its obvious your brother will have an edge on you as far as upgrade to upgrade. at least you started with a sporty pony car, instead of those kids that start with honda economy cars

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

but its bs that his vette was given to him bone stock ran 13s and i saved up for months for my 15sec bomb ,this whole time im fixin it up ( emmisions, tune up, radiator,water pump) he stands there and talks about y vettes are sooo much better/faster/cooler then fbodys. i dont care about daily driving or racing anyone else. i just want to smoke his corvette


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redneckjoe

a rear gear change would would probably make your car alot faster. thats where id start.

86Z

iTrader: (4)

funny i have a 12 sec 305... and it's the stock bottom end.. obviously you have no clue, and to say mw66nova lives like a princess is just your jealousy talking, get a job and build something to beat a slow *** corvette... geez.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

maybe i am a liittle jealous that someone that MIGHT work two days a week and got their license THIS year gets a clean *** corvette and i work 2 jobs 7days 56hrs a week and i dont have **** but a 1000$ 15 sec ,rusty, pos. and a pile of junk spare parts lyin around that might push me to the 13.9 he started with. and yea i got ppissed at nova bcuz when he bragged about all his builds he sounded spoiled like my brother.


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86Z

iTrader: (4)

wow.... just wow...

really childish you think?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

But this goes for everybody though, not just you. Welcome to the wonderful world of racing, the world where none of us know what the other person is running until the race is over, and even then most racers keep their mouth shut as to what they are running. It doesn't matter what engine your running, all engines can be made to run fast, all of them. It takes x amount of horsepower, weight and gearing to run a number. Do you honestly think that a 305's bore can only take in x amount of air and fuel? Do you realize that a 2JZ engine shares a similar bore and stroke as the Chevy 305, not to mention the 2JZ has two less cylinders, yet the 2JZ can shove in as much additional air that it wants to into that bore than a 305? Do you know why that is? The problem isn't the bore size of the engine, the problem is the limited cylinder head cfm from the factory. Once your passed that, you will soon see that any engine can be made fast without resorting to just cubic inches. This is why we focus on cam specs, cylinder head flow, and intake volume. Yes, more cubic inches will always make more potential horsepower, but that doesn't change the fact that it takes x amount of horsepower, weight and gear to run a number, and any engine will get you there, any engine, you just need to understand how to effectively generate horsepower with the engine you are using...

big hammer

the problem with the 305 IS it's bore size BECAUSE of the head configuration. on a 4v head the bore size means less because you can optimize airflow better. but on the 2v design the small bore IS a big limiting factor.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

lethal, say i built a 400 hp 350 and walked my brothers vette. he would just copy my build.


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mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Understand this man: I have built every engine/combination myself. I have done everything with my own money, and my parents didn't hand me a dime. I come from a racing family, and I still built everything I have, and was given nothing. In fact, I bought my little brother's car for him and he paid me back. I helped him with every bit of fabrication on his 5.3 swap instead of bitching about what he has or what i have. Work hard for what you have and you'll het there. Pissing and moaning on the internet just makes you look like a snotty nosed little kid that didn't get the Christmas present he wanted.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

What's keeping him from building something even nastier than you're describing now?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

But that is the beauty of racing, as well as modding. You can tell your brother what engine your working with, and you can even show him the numbers to confirm the block, but when it comes to the modifications you only need to tell him so much. You will find that many a racer hide their cams specs and cylinder head work for those very reasons, as there is no need to give it all away. Why make it easy for them to beat you, or to replicate your build? When once quoted when explaining how much he taught his students, even Bruce Lee admitted; "I'm not going to teach my students to beat me", therein lies the competitive nature in all of us. Whatever your brother does to beat you, you can always do more, and vice versa, as all engines can be made fast. That is just the way it is, and that is the beauty of competition, thus the saying, there's always someone faster...

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

he already beat me by 4-5 lengths BEFORE the superram and headers he thinks he doesnt need to


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Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not true. Think of what your saying. First of all, a 305 can run a 1.94" intake valve with no problem, but more importantly, it is the flow underneath the seat that is more important than the overall size, and I am referring especially in a naturally aspirated situation, as if we get into boost that essentially changes everything. If valve shrouding becomes a problem, then you remedy this by working the combustion chambers. Also, the idea is to create not only more of an area to grab from (plenum wise) by installing an HSR or LT1 intake, but also a shorter and more linear and direct intake tract to speed up velocity, shortening the distance between the throttle body and the intake valve, and when combined with the right amount of duration this will create an RPM screamer regardless of the 3.48" stroke. Remember that you only need to give the 305 enough of what it is calling for, and also remember that there is a reason why both the 305 and 350 are choked at 4000-RPM with a Tuned Port System, even with the stock heads, because both are calling for more air, and trust me, the bore isn't a problem even with a 2 valve cylinder head...

Now, can a 2 valve 305 cylinder head outperform a 2JZ head? Of course it can't, but it doesn't have to, especially in a boosted application, because there are Grand Nationals out there that are running in the nines with 1.7x intake valves. Now, exactly how much power can a 305 make with a 2 valve engine capped with a 1.94" intake valve, well that remains to be seen, and even if it doesn't meet your expectations, it doesn't have to. Again, running numbers is a careful balance of horsepower, weight and gearing, and if the 305 can only average 350-FWHP at best, then gear it and trim down the weight accordingly, or... boost it like I did if you really want to compete. Either way, any engine can be made fast, and if it takes high compression, or a turbo or supercharger to do it, then so be it.

88FormulaF_Bomb

iTrader: (1)

i **** and moan online to avoid upsetting the ppl i actually kno. sry nova in 10 years il probably have 10 builds and be right where u r now. but its bs that my OLDER brother got this and stands there and talks **** about my car when he barely works, pays no bills,and lives at home stil. im 8 years younger, and have had my license longer, but grandpas favorite gets everything.


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86Z

iTrader: (4)

this is not a car issue...

seek therapy.

big hammer

it's absolutely true. first off, a 1.94 is a small valve. 2nd, a 1.94 intake valve gets very close to the wall of the 305's SMALL BORE which shrouds the valve. this hinders airflow and performance. it's small bore size with it's 2 valve configuration hinders performance, end of story. especially in an N\A application.

it's a big part of the reason almost NOBODY builds a 305. it's not that they were a bad engine. they were great in caprices and stuff.

Dakota W.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

what heads?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

It's people like you that members need to avoid listening to. Your basing your research on what, speculation? A 1.94" intake valve is small for a 305 lol? Are you serious? Truly you don't know what your talking about. The cylinder heads "shroud" the valve lol? Is this apart of that wonderful research of yours? Have you ported a 305 cylinder head? Well, have you? Have you run that ported set on a 305 after you were done? Well, have you?

I have my friend, and what you say is completely fluff because you have no idea what you are talking about. Here are my stock 1.84" intake valve cylinder heads that I am running on my turbo 305 (see below), which are obviously smaller than 1.94" cylinder heads... you think they don't flow well lol? I ported the chamber out to easily clear a 1.94" valve as well which I will be reseating for and installing in the coming few weeks. My ten second trap speed at 15-psi proves to me otherwise as to every single thing you are saying. Wanna prove to me, factually, the contrary? Can you? Go ahead, I will wait to see you post somebody else's research, or words, and then I will laugh my azz off because your words are hollow and empty backed by no research or work on your own whatsoever...

keeslinger31

No matter what you do to your car there will always be somebody faster than you.
You need to accept this first

I was in a similar position as you when younger and me and my brother have always had healthy competition. But what got to me wasn't that his cars were faster but that he really didn't think of cars as anything more than transport from point a to point b.

So in turn I had to actually help him fix his cars to make them go faster.
And I got way more satisfaction out of helping him than trying to beat him.

To this day I still help him with his cars/life/money and It feels good I mean Come on! grow up he is your brother!

Who knows maybe he will save your a$$ someday

Btw my brothers kenne bell cobra still kicks my *** but without my help he would still be trying to get it to run right.

Phenom-1

Kenne Bell Cobra or Mach 1 is 4th Gen heavily modded LT1 or mild mod LS1 SS or WS6 Territory.