Aftermarket Product ReviewProvide questions and answers about aftermarket parts for the Third Generation F-Body.
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Yea - I have a 3500# land barge !! I don't really know what to do lighten the car. I've heard that the padding under the carpet is very heavy, and I can do tires and wheels (with skinnies), but after that I don't know. The car is in immaculate condition, and has electric everything (locks, windows, hatch pull down motor, electric antenna, rare factory AC Delco CD player, leather, etc.). It's just built as a heavy car, and I don't really want to start tearing it down to lighten it up. I also still have air conditioning, which works great.
I always heard that you want to launch 1000 rpm below your tq peak, but I don't know if that's true. I don't know anything about a trans brake (except what they are and what they do). I do need to launch a little higher, because the car never spins. Although the guys at the track are telling me to try starting at 1000-1200 rpm, then just "pancake" the throttle. They say this will allow the convertor to flash to a higher rpm, as it is not loaded up (like it is when I power brake it). I've yet to try this. I'm also not sure how much more "torture" the 700R4 and the rest of the drive train (stock rear end) can take.
I'm sure that I'm going to do a cam, and I'm a "maybe" on the long tubes. It's just a matter of when (this fall) , and like I said before, waiting to see how your car and OMINOUS 87 runs.
My goal is 11.9s on a car that I drive back and forth to work with the A/C running.
To Mike Crews - Your goal of 11.9's is very near! There are a couple things that you can do to lighten the car up without tearing the car apart. The factory carpet is plenty thick enough to use with-out the 2 ton padding underneath. Removing the padding will save about 40 lbs.!! Then remove the spare tire and jack, that's 20-30 more lbs. You should see 70 lbs in the 1/4. There's almost a guaranteed tenth quicker! Bigs and skinnies will help too, the factory wheels are pretty heavy! After all the modifications (T-56 swap, exhaust swap, remove spare tire/jack, removed all emissions equipment), my car weighs 3186 lbs. by itself with a ~1/3 tank of gas and the car still has AC and power everything which all still works.
As far as waiting to see my car run, I probably will only be able to make one pass. I am not putting a roll cage in the car and I'm expecting a high 11 sec pass without any fine tuning or launching technique changes. So I'll probably get kicked off of the track (due to the 11.99 and quicker, a roll cage is required rule) after my first pass and may not be able to see what kind of times that I could get out of it. We'll see though. After the 500 mile break-in, I'm having it rear wheel dyno'd. I'll post the numbers for RWHP and 1/4 mile when I get that far. I'm dropping in the new motor tomorrow. Still waiting for a couple of back-ordered parts to get here.
To all - I just got my Holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator in today. It's the best AFPR that I've seen! It's billet and instead of a bolt or screw on top of the regulator, it has a dial that you can turn by hand instead of fishing a wrench underneath the upper plenum. It get's the thumbs up!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
1987 Chevy V2500 355ci TH350
Doug Thorley Headers, Catco cat, Gibson catback, AIS Cold air induction to the grille, TB Spacer, BF Goodrich all around, Dump bed converted, and one massive Fisher plow
Ominous - ya like the pic? I thought it was funny and it fits this board beings it's a thirdgen! I graduated in 95 too!
To Mike Crews - do you have any pics of your car anywhere on the net? I'd like to see under the hood if you gotta pic. As soon as I get the car running, my friend is going to let me borrow his digital camera and I'll post a couple if anyone wants to see it.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Hey Mike (1bad91XZ) - Your car weighs 3186# - I'm jealous!!! I need to put my car on a diet. Thanks for validating the carpet padding issue for me. I already have new carpet for my car (waiting to be installed). When I take out the old stuff, I won't put any padding back in. Good luck on your new motor install (you're probably knee deep into it as I'm writing this).
As far as the digital pictures go, I don't currrenly have any available. I dropped my digital camera at the track several months ago (destroyed it), and I have not yet purchased a new one. I will borrow one from work next week and try to post some pictures towards the end of the week. Under the hood, my car look like a clean stocker with headers and red spark plug wires. But I'll get some picutes on so your guys can see for yourself.
I'm going to the track tonight to experiment with two of my chips (Crews 7 & 8), and also that crazy Wells MAF that I'm trying to get to work. The chips both have a little more fuel at the lower rpms, and a little less timing in the upper rpms. Now that the temps are starting to drop a bit, I can see what they are going to do. "Theoretically" (according to the Tech 1), they should run better than my current chip (Crews6), but as we all know, things don't always work out that way.
Kepping it fresh baby!!!!!!!!!!!!
:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala:
Where are ya mike?
Anybody have Speedvision and watch Monster Garge with Jesse James? It rocks!
:rockon:
1987 Chevy V2500 355ci TH350
Doug Thorley Headers, Catco cat, Gibson catback, AIS Cold air induction to the grille, TB Spacer, BF Goodrich all around, Dump bed converted, and one massive Fisher plow
Whats up Mike! Yep, I am knee deep in it! I just finished pulling the motor and tranny a couple of days ago. I should have the new motor in it by the end of the week. When the remainder of the parts show up (hopefully by early next week), I'll start breaking it in and racking up the 500 miles really quick (pun intended)! Then, it's off to the dyno!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Hey mike, 11.9's would be awesome if you can do it NA!
I think you will need more mph though.
theoretically 109mph with perfect suspension and perfect launch will net a 11.95..
Longtube headers of the same primary size wont give you any more peak power, the longer primary tubes will lower your peak power rpm though, which should help your ltr setup.
your 2600 stall converter.. I bet with all your torque and your heavy car, it probably stalls at 2800-2900 already. You can try a higher stall converter but don't go any higher than your torque peak. I think 100rpm lower than peak, as a stall, is supposed to be ideal.
as for weight.. consider replacing parts with lightweight stuff, aluminum rad, aluminum A arms, control arms, DS...
relocate your battery to the back, take out your passenger seat at the track, everything removable, take it out
My wife had some "minor" foot surgery on Monday, so I'm kind of tied up right now taking care of her.
Well, I flogged the car at the track Saturday night, and the results were kind of what I expected. It was really hot (high 80s), so I knew the car was not going to run any better than it had in the past. I ran mostly mid to high 12.4s, and did get a couple of good runs in with one of my new chips Crews8, which was good. I'm driving Crews8 in the car right now to see if the computer can learn the chip a little better. However, on a different note, I think that my rear end is starting to act kind of "funny." Sometimes only one tire will spin in the burnout box initially. I can stop the car, then hit it again, and then both tires spin. I don't know, maybe it's my imagination, but maybe the posi (limited slip) unit is getting tired. After all, it is the stock rearend with 130,000 miles on it. Is there anything that you can replace/rebuild in the posi unit (and is it even available for the old 9 bolt rears)?
I have decided that I am not going to flog the car anymore looking/hoping for another .0X seconds. I already know what the car will/can do. I'm going to start looking at the cam swap. I have really been doing a lot of cam research the last week or so. I have four cams that I am really wrestling with (again). My final choice will be one of these four.
CC 08-502-8: 218/224, 269/276, .495/.503, LSA 112, Int. CL 108
The SLP cam and the CC218/224 are very similar, except the lower lift, the 114 LSA and the 114 intake centerline (actually a very interesting cam to me....). I also like the looks of the Lunati 54743. It has the 219 intake (like the LPE 219), but is a split duration (on the exhaust) like I need (but it does look kind of big). The reason that I am lookng (only half-heartedly) at the Lunati 54779, is GMHTP recommended 215/222 as the ideal cam for a LTR 383. However, it hardly seems worth it to only move up 4* from the LPE 211 already in the car (so I probably won't do the 54779). I am still processing the info on all four (it's killing me). It's going to take a lot to move me off of the CC 218/224, but I want to explore everything before I "jump."
I don't need more tq, but I do need about 40 more rear rwhp to get me into the 11s at 3500# (with about the same tq). Does anybody have any experience with any of the cams that I have listed (besides the CC218/224, I already know it's "history"). I've searched the board, but have found only limited info on them.
Mike - good luck with the rest of your motor install!!
Later - Mike........
Last edited by Mike Crews; 10-08-2002 at 05:43 PM.
I been following this thread for a while i,d like to know your thoughts mike. both mikes lol on the engine build i'm planning.sorry its a long one.
Block 350 4 Bolt Main’s
Bored .030 over,Debured an Checkek an Ground for Clearance’s
Bottom End
Speed-o-Motive 391 Monster Mouse Stroker Kit Forged 6” Rod Kit 9.0 / 1 comp ratio
Melling Oil Pump
Dimond Stripper Windage Tray
CrankShaft Scrapers,Pan Baffles,Lifter Valley Baffle
Strongly Leaning To The Launti Cam Part #50162 dur at 50 is 300/310 an
lift is 525/540 RPM RANGE 2200/6800
cause of the super charger being added later
Pete Jackson Gear Drive
Heads
1972Double Hump Gasket Matched
Ported An Polished 2.02/1.64
an matching springs to the cam
Ignition
ALL MSD
Induction
For Now I’m Stickin With The TPI With
AS&M Runners An A Big Mouth Intake
50Pd Injectors
58MM Throtle Body airfoil
If I can find the runners new or I may make my own
Later Going To After I Put A Few Thousand Miles On It
TPIS SUPERRAM with the (if my set up fails)
50Pd Injectors
58MM Throtle Body airfoil
ATI PROCHARGER P600B or the D-1 / 15Pd Boost
2 STAGE NOS RPM ACTIVEATED
75 HP ON AT 1800
100 HP ON AT2500
BOTH OFF AT 6800 or the max rpm it will reach with the intake system That’s on at the time
NOS will have its own fuel pump an fuel cell with cam2 race fuel with cooler for the wet system
Hey 89Formula391S/C - You said a mouthful !!! Wow, what a list of parts (AND 2 power adders). I really don't have the level of knowledge required to comment on a complicated combination like yours. That seems like a very complicated propostion to me to build all at one time. That's quite the big honkin' cam you got goin' there. Without a S/C and nitrous, I would expect some difficulty with the cam, but with the 2 power adders, I really couldn't say. It sounds imposing though.
Listen guys, I called LPE today and asked for the advertsied duration (or just plain "duration") for the LPE 219/219 cam (it's not listed in the LPE book or on the website). The guy told me that they don't have any numbers like that (he said all they have is duration @ .050). What's up with that?? Does anybody know the "advertised duration" of the LPE 219 cam? I'd like it for comparison purposes.
Also, I called SLP to ask them about using the SLP 51006 cam in my motor. As soon as I said "stroker" the guy said, "...that cam was not designed for a stroker motor. You'd have to grind some stuff." I told him that the motor was already running and the block and rods were already clearanced for the LPE 211 cam (which is not a small circle base cam), so there wold be no need for me to grind anymore. He still insisted that the cam could not work in a stroker motor. Again I ask, What's up with that?
It seems that sound/grounded advice and conversation is getting harder and harder to come by nowdays. Oh well, that's what makes resources like our own Thirdgen.org so valuable. Thanks for all your help. At least I can count on you guys.:hail:
To Mike Crews - Wierd coincidance, my fiance' just had surgery on Monday (I've been taking care of her as well)!! Hence, the new motor is still sitting on the stand and the old motor is still swinging from the engine hoist. "Advertised duration" is usually seat to seat duration or duration at .006 tappet. Don't over think the cam! If you are not going with my cam (CC XR276), then definitely go with the XR269. Keep in mind, you have to change the PROM config to match your new cam. Comp makes great cams. The reason why Comp Hyd Roller cams run so good is, they always minus 4* from the LSA to make the ICA. That way when you install the cam straight up, it's actually 4* advanced. (ex: my cam has a 112 LCA and a 108 ICA). Another reason why I feel that the XR269 is a good choice is that a stroker needs a split pattern cam with some decent duration. The XR269 and the XR276 fits the bill. Good luck on your cam choice and I hope your wife feels better!
To 87Formula391 - I feel that you have some miss matched items in your combo. You can make way more power with less money and you went way too big on everything.
First, you need to make a decision on what heads you are going with. Then before you pick a cam, you need to have those heads flow benched that way you can pick out the right cam grind. (ex: if your heads flow the peak CFM at .550 lift, then you need a cam with a .550 lift). Double hump heads do not flow all that well even after porting and bigger valves. (I can provide flow numbers for all kinds of heads, if you would like to see how little the double humps really flow). You would do ALOT better with different heads. As far as cams go, hopefully by now from reading this thread, that you would see that bigger isn't always better. I do like the your ideas about the blower/nitrous combo and staying LTR style intake. I'd like to give you some ideas on a combo that I will be building that will make more than 600+HP with-out nitrous. If it still isn't fast enough for you, then add a 75hp shot just to cool off the charge! But, I've driven a 600+HP car and believe me, it's PLENTY if not overkill for the street. This motor is intended to be and will be completely streetable, not a trailer queen. Also, I would build a 383, not a 391 or a 396 because a 383 is less expensive more reliable and less apt to break parts (at least from my experiences and from what I've seen).
Specs:
mid 90's 350ci 1 peice rear main, hyd roller block
Bored .030 over, torque plate line honed, 4 bolt splayed main caps, 0 deck
Speed Pro forged floating pin flat-tops with 21cc "D" cup for blower apps - 8.24:1 compression with 64cc heads. With the block 0 decked and the right head gasket, it will be 8.5:1 comp.
Speed Pro rings
Clevite bearings
If I'm not mistaking, these heads peak at .600 lift
Blower: ATI D-1SC with 3 row sheet metal intercooler and 15 lb pulley.
Injectors: Accel flowmatched 36lb (yes, thats all you need)
Holley AFPR
Cam: Have Comp Cams custom grind something along the lines of this:
.550/.568 lift, 230-236 duration@.050, 114 LSA, 110 ICA
Comp Cams cam kit to match the cam.
Reason for the 114LSA is the Blower.
ARP bolts through out!!
This part is good also:
"Ignition
ALL MSD
Induction
For Now I’m Stickin With The TPI With
AS&M Runners An A Big Mouth Intake"
To make the most out this this combo, I HIGHLY recommend using the F.A.S.T bank to bank DFI with wide band o2 sensor. This is whats going to really help crank out the ponies and maintain streetabilty.
Desktop Dyno2000 predicts 612HP @ 5,500rpm's and 606HP @6,000 / it peaks torque at a whopping 662 ft lbs @ 4000 rpms.
5,500rpm's is completely realistic for a LTR intake.
After building this and "I will" one day, I dont think that I will be needing nitrous!
I hope some of this helps and happy building!
:lala:
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Just curious -- where are you doing your cam shopping, Mike Crews? And Mike (1bad91z) where did you get yours?
Not that I'll be getting one anytime soon -- my g.f. decided she wants the wedding next year and she wants to buy a house in the spring. Guess my Camaro will just gather a few more inches of dust....
Hey Mike - I know what you mean about overthinking the cam thing. I think I'm already there. However, I guess that I kind of enjoy the reseach part of it, mostly becuase my car is already running, and I have time to shop around a bit. Almost all the cams that I have ever looked close at are advanced the 4* that you mentioned. That's why I thought it was odd the the SLP cam that I was looking at was on a 114 intake centerline AND a 114 LSA (no "built in" advance). I wanted to discuss this with them, but I was not successful (as I previously mentioed). I kind of like the idea of the SLP cam having a 114 LSA (I beleive that the SLP cams are Compcams grinds anyway). I'm still looking "hard" at the SLP 51006 cam (plus it's on "sale" now for $299). The prom is no problem, I've already talked to Dean, and Crews8 will run fine with the 269 (at least as a starting point). Hope your fiance' gets to feeling better also.
Traumatech - I do all of my cam finding and research on the internet at the respective websites (Compcams.com, Lunaticams.com, SLP, etc), then I call the manufacturuer when I have questions. When it comes time to buy, I usually will first call Summit or Jegs to see of they can get the part number that I need, or I buy straight from the manufactuer if required (this is ususally a bit more expensive). I obviously purchased my last cam from LPE.
To Mike Crews - the 114 LSA will push the HP peak further down the rpm range another 400-500 rpms. 112 is pretty darn perfect for the LTR in my opinion. FYI, I got my Comp Cam from summit for $259.00. SLP is a little on the high side on all of there parts. Comp also makes there cams out of a harder material than most manufacturers. It's much harder to flatten a Comp cam compared to crane, erson, lunati, etc.. from what I've seen. I've only seen 1 flat spotted lobe on a Comp, I've seen several of the others with bad spots.
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
thanks for the info that sounds good.i been reading alot about all the diffrent head and cam combo's.this is still in the works im going to be awhile im trying to get a Dyno bussness up an off the ground too.i already got the stroker kit minus the pistons there waiting to be shiped till i decide on the heads.to late though on the kit i got the 391 an it was at a great discount..im going to a shop here that does my machine work to look at a few diffrent heads..i built my 488 bb pontiac motor with them doing all the machine work it was impressive wish id of been able to keep it in my 77 drag car but track cut me to 12 flat cuase of my disabilty.wich was kool with me as the first try with 488 scared sh*t out of me..
Mike - I've decided to go ahead and get the XR269. I'll buy it the first of next month (my wife said to consider it my Birthday present ). It's $258 straight from CompCams. So, I'll start working on the cam swap and maybe a bit of extra intake porting next month. I've already got a set of CompCams 1.6 roller tip rockers, so I guess that I'll go with those (and not back to the stamped steel 1.5s). I'm not going to go with the Hooker LT Headers right now. So, I'll probably replace the cam without pulling the motor, just to save some time and effort (unless I really think that I need to pull the motor to do some detail work and/or painting). Anyway, thanks for all your help and advice with my new cam selection.
I just hope that my rear end holds out. If not, I saw today that SLP sells the OEM Zexel-Torsen posi units for $99. I might pick up one of those. I think that it will fit the 9 bolt rear, according to the SLP literature, but I need to check for sure. We have 28 spline axles in our cars (89 and up), right??
To Mike Crews - Anytime, and good choice! Comp recommends 1.5 rollers for our cams. Are your heads (valve springs) capable of handling the added lift with the 1.6's? As far as axles go, I'm the wrong guy for that (I will be subbing out all that stuff to Mosier)!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
In pa. mike,little northwest of wilkes barre.i have owned a lot of f-bodys but the fast ones were all big block.now i got 8 3rd gens an all small blocks for now.i bought a 82 indy pace car Z28 its 305 crossfire but thats going to change in future im hoping.i like the thought of some day putting an allstar 708 all alum block in it..but thats long way off for now.this Formula gets all spare time till i get shop going.
Hey Mike - I wan't really aware that Comp actually recommended 1.5s for our cams. Where/How did ou find out about that? I probably would start out with 1.5s, but all I have are the stock stamped steel 1.5s. I didn't really want to put the stockers back on, and I really didn't want to buy another set of 1.5s. But, I guess that I could put the stock 1.5s on just to see how the car runs. My springs (TPIS) will lift to .540, so with the 1.6s .525/.533 lift will be OK. I'm already lifting .532 on the intake right now. Maybe I'll look on the classified section and see if someone is selling a good set of 1.5s. I am using a new set of the stock (black) GM valve covers, so full rollers have a tough time fitting under there. Mike, what kind of push rods are you using? I am using an new set of GMPP push rods, but was thinking about maybe stepping up to a chrome moly set just for valve train stability. Do you think that this is overkill (and a waste of money)?
To Mike Crews - call Comp Cams tech line and ask them about the recommended rocker ratio for your cam and then ask them if 1.6's would be ok to use. I dont see why you couldn't use the 1.6's. I spent a small fortune for the rollers that I have ($299.00) Crane Gold series 'pro/race' self alligning, narrow body 'for center bolt valve covers' fully roller rockers, 1.50 ratio. 1.5's dont rise as high as 1.6's so I can get away with using the stock valve covers. The reason I went with these is they'll last forever! If I need more lift one day, then I'll just change the cam (it's cheaper that way)! Pretty sad that my rollers cost more than my cam! Unless your are running a 600HP 12:1 compression motor with a .600+ lift cam, there's no need to go with the bad-boy push rods. I'm using a $25 set of Comp hardened, stock length pushrods. Let me know what Comp says!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Do not skimp on the pushrods. Spend a little extra for the one piece. The Pro Magnum series are reasonable. I have seen the ball end break off on cheaper pushrods.
In my Comp book, it does not show a XR 269 cam? Are you refering to the XR 270?
__________________ D&Z Performance
"Putting Power to the Pavement"
I've been following this thread for some time and just thought I'd chime in. I am in the process of swapping my small Crane cam for the XR269 in my 350TPI. All that's left is to pull the timing cover and pull that weak cam out!
I dynoed the car on 9/30/02 with the setup in my sig and pulled 260rwhp & 340rwtq the small cam and 11.0 air/fuel ratio (rich). I knew I needed more cam and decided to dive into the research.
With the help of this thread and many others, I chose the XR269. I was worried about going too big, but some people here are running even bigger cams with a 350/355 (Mike).
I think this might be a good comparison between Vortec heads and my Edelbrock heads since almost everything else is comparable between us (setup wise). It will be cool to see how I stack up against a 383 as well. I will have the new cam in and running within a day or so and will dyno it next week...
__________________ '92 RS - ZZ4 350 - Holley Stealth Ram - Comp Cams 269HR - Edelbrock Performer heads - SLP/JetHot headers - 3" Dynomax - Centerforce Dual Friction - G-Force T-5 - LS1 rear with Auburn Pro + 3.42 - BMR/Hotchkis/Spohn suspension - 17 x 9" ZR1 rims - and so much more!
Scott C - your combination sounds pretty decent! However, I will recommend for anyone to have their heads flow benched with 28" of water before picking the "best" cam for your combo. My cam is WELL matched to my heads (they have everything done to them that is possible). Not to be critical, but your heads dont flow as well as stock Vortec heads.
If you are leaving your heads untouched, the XR269 is a decent choice, but I would call Comp Cam Help line 1-800-999-0853 and give them your flow numbers for your heads and let them pick the cam for you. They will probably pick either the XR269 or the XR276 but talking to Comp will probably make you feel better about your selection. Hope this helps!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
I actually filled out one of those cam recommendation sheets that Comp Cams has and they suggested the XR264. The XR264 is barely larger than what I already have and I've been told that they go on the mild side with their suggestions. I really didn't want to wind up regretting my choice again...
I also have flow numbers to compare with the ones you listed. They are from GMHTP when they tested a bunch of different heads the same day. Here are the GMHTP numbers:
I'm not trying to be critical either, but the Vortecs only flow better from .200-.400 and not by much (5 cfm avg). The Edelbrocks outflow the Vortecs by 15 cfm @ .500 and have better intake & exhaust flow from .500 and up. The stock Vortecs also stall at .400 where the Edelbrocks keep flowing up to .500+ lift.
From your numbers and the others I've seen including the ones listed above, both heads flow very close to each other out of the box. They also have the same efficiency (71-73%). Now, if we want to talk about porting and valve jobs, I'm certain that both heads will once again flow very similar to each other with the same mods done to them. We can't compare stock heads to modified heads and expect the same results, right? Anyway...I just wanted to "defend" my Edelbrocks and note that they are not inferior to the Vortecs in any way.
Of course I now realize that I could've just bought AFR 190s and been done with it
I've been working a lot of late hours all this week. No time to "play" on the computer. Plus my wife is still in her foot cast, so I'm the "house dude" for a while. Mike - I have seen that CompCams data on the TPI cams that they list (pages 60 & 61 in the CC catalog). I have it printed out as a matter of fact. I know all too well that that indicate your cam would work perfectly fine in any "modified" 350 tpi setup (or 383, I presume). They make it sound "so simple." That's what makes this cam selection business so much fun. How's your motor install going??
Funny you ask! 10 minutes ago I scored a Superram setup for 500$ So the LTR setup and all thoughts about it need to be changed. As for cams, this has just opened up a whole new debate for me personally.
Ill let ya know if and when I figure it out, LOL!
SR baby, ya!!!
Mark
Also, expect to see a SLP Runner setup with a port matched plenum go up for sale. If interested before it hits the classifieds let me know.
1987 Chevy V2500 355ci TH350
Doug Thorley Headers, Catco cat, Gibson catback, AIS Cold air induction to the grille, TB Spacer, BF Goodrich all around, Dump bed converted, and one massive Fisher plow
I'll have all the pics you guys want if I can find a friend with a Digital camera! I just sat the new motor in the car today.
Reasons why it's taking so long:
I dry-set the valves and was experiencing coil bind
Had to pull the heads off, take them to the machine shop and have spring pockets enlarged for the new Comp Cams dual valve springs
I'm still waiting on a few back-ordered parts (should be here by the 30th)
So if everything goes as planned, I'll have the car running by the end of this month! And, if I can borrow the dig. camera, I'll post some pics of the car/motor too!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
The plan for vortec heads has been dropped. Not because they dont have potential but I picked up a ported Superram for a great price and the motor will be spinning past 6000rpm. Anyway I ordered all the motor parts and will order the trans and suspension parts by the end of the month. Hopefully she will be completed by a Jan-Feb timeline.
Ominous - I noticed you decided to go with the XR276!! Nice choice! Good luck with your combo, I hope it makes some decent numbers!
To all - if everything goes as planned, I'll have dyno numbers by the end of this month! I bet ya I'll make more HP than the GMHTPmagnum firebird! Wish me luck!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Ya I opted for the bigger cam. After I picked up the Superram the choice was made real easy. 383+Superram+AFR 190s=XR276HR-12.
I will be real interested to see the numbers with those SLP runners on. I bet you make over 300rwhp but loose out on some of the torque.
I plan to test my motor several ways when I am done.
1. New long block with Edelbrock base, stock runners, stock plenum, and stock TB.
2. New long block with Edelbrock base, SLP runners, port matched plenum, and 52mm TB.
3. New long block with Edelbrock base, fully ported Lingenfelter Superram, and stock TB.
4. New long block with Edelbrock base, fully ported Lingenfelter Superram, and 52mm TB.
Hopefully I can find a dyno shop that is willing to work with me!!! Also, the intake runners and AFRs will be port matched. Also, the chip tune will be the same for all dyno runs (ARAP.bin with 89 Vette Automatic spark table).
Anyway, time to get down to the garage and turn a wrench.
Ominous - you think that I'll only put ~300hp to the ground? Ye have little faith!!
I'm figuring closer to 350-375hp to the ground. There's ALOT that isn't mentioned in my sig. and yes, I am NOT using any power adders.
My heads made better flow numbers than AFR 190 heads! Everything that can be done, has been done to my Vortec heads. And there's a ton of other work that I've put into the motor to squeeze a little more than the average rebuild! But, you guys will be the first to know the dyno results when I get them (well, besides me and the dyno shop). It would be badass if I just happen to lay down 400rwhp though! :hail:
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Dude, 400 would be something!!! I didnt know that was what you are shooting for. I agree that it will be difficult with the LTR setup unless those SLPs are gutted and your base is siamesed! Even Superram setups only average 360-375 when done right, but dont loose any torque either. Anyway I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you as I want to see the best numbers possible out of your rig!
I just hope that my rear end holds out. If not, I saw today that SLP sells the OEM Zexel-Torsen posi units for $99. I might pick up one of those. I think that it will fit the 9 bolt rear, according to the SLP literature, but I need to check for sure. We have 28 spline axles in our cars (89 and up), right??
Well, here's the break down-
91-92 10 bolts had 28 spline axels. There were a few 90's that had them snuck in.
In 89 you still would have had the australian 9 bolt. The posi's from the 9 bolt to the 10 bolt were not interchangeable. I do however believe the 9 bolt posi's were rebuildable, which is the route i recommend you go. To buy a new one, or an aftermarket one for that 9 bolt is going to be expensive.
The 28 spline torsion unit that you are refering to, is the same piece i have in my current 92 iroc rear. It works great for straight line, but tends to turn into a 1 legger in sharper turns and when you try to do donuts.
Stick with a clutch type posi, i think you would be a bit happier with it.
I think my combo may suprise you and me both! FYI - TPIS made 437 flywheel HP with a combo similar to mine! And I dont think that I'll lose too much to the back wheels (my tranny is a 6 speed manual).
To Ominous87 -
Yep, shooting for 400! I've done ALOT of porting/shaping to the intake and heads (it came out really nice!) and the intake should flow arround 240-250 cfm to the heads through the ported runners and plenum. If I dont make the 400 mark, I think 350-375rwhp will still be nice and VERY possible, also FUN with the 6 speed! I still have a few odds and ends to wrap up before I start to drive it again (PROM tuning etc....) After 500 miles, it's off to the dyno!
Mike (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Wow, what a thread! I read the whole thing, it took me awhile. I can't wait to see what that cam does for your motor Mike, and I cait wait to see 1bad91Z's dyno results! I was surprised that your heads flow better then the afr's you mentioned, that's awesome. I'm thinking of making a similar engine to Mikes only with a 406cid motor and diff cam. I'm on a budget, so I don't think I'll do any work to the heads (L31). How do you guys think those heads will perform on a 406cid? I'm only looking for mid to high 12's in the 1/4 for now.
