vernw

iTrader: (2)

PLEASE DO NOT TRY THE PLENUM DIVIDER MENTIONED LATER ON WITHOUT READING MY LAST POST IN THIS THREAD!!!


You've probably seen my posts on the SR before, but I've just about had it with this intake system.

I have been fighting a problem on mine for almost a year that I know of, possibly been there all along.

I now have two WB sensors installed in the car, one for each bank of my 383. The ECM is still being controlled by the narrow band sensor, and it's a brand new AC-Delco AFS-74 heated 3 wire.

For lack of better words, I seem to be fighting a split BLM problem where the pass side of my motor is always rich. We're talking the passenger side running 12.5 - 13.5 AFR in closed loop while the driver's side is 14 - 15.5 AFR. Average difference seems to be in the 1.25 - 1.5 AFR difference range. The plugs seem to show the WB's are correct, the right side definitely looks rich while the driver's side doesn't.

I've swapped the WB's between banks and the problem remains, so it's not a WB issue. I've pulled and re-sealed the SR plenum and runners in case of vacuum leaks (used RTV on both sides of all gaskets except plenum lid, used RTV only there). I've replaced all the plug wires, ohmed out the wires to make sure they're good, changed ignition module, dizzy cap, etc. Even tried it both with and without the MSD Digital 6 box. No difference. I've cleaned the ECM grounds on the back of the heads. I ran an extra ground cable from a starter bolt to the pass head, between the two heads, and from the drivers head to the battery. I've tried checking the compression but couldn't get a gauge on every cylinder due to the SLP Tri-Y headers. The ones I did check were all 190-200 PSI (checked #2,#6, #1, #3, #7). I've gone thru 4 sets of header gaskets thinking one might be leaking (GM, SLP, Percy's 6 layer aluminum, and now solid copper).

I've tried spraying water, starting fluid, brake fluid, and even using a propane torch trying to find a vacuum leak. The almost new SVO 30 injectors went to Rich at Cruizin Performance late last fall and were all cleaned and flow tested.

None of these has made any difference.

By all indications, something has to be leaking somewhere. It almost sounds to me like there is extra air getting into the driver's side and the NB O2 sensor is richening up the fuel because of it (which then makes the driver's side too rich).

This has just about soured me on this setup, and I hate to admit that. Hopefully someone else can come up with some ideas to help me find this problem. Right now I'm just about ready to go back to a ported TPI or an LT1...

Lo-tec

Have you tried removing all of the vacuum lines coming off of the intake (incl. the one for the brake booster)?

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Nope, but I will tomorrow! Thinking one of them might be the air source? The brake line is next to the #7 port and the largest one. But the others are actually next to #8. Oh well, I'll try it anyway. May try disconnected the NB and verifying again that both sides are the same in open loop, too. Thanks for the suggestion!

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

You sure that you installed the lower runner to base gaskets correctly?

If it is an aftermarket base, did you put thread sealer on the lower runner to base bolts? My old accel base leaked coolant out of a couple of the bottom ones and I coated all of them after that.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

At this point, anything is possible. But I'm pretty sure they are on there correctly. Looked like there was only one way for them to go on. And I don't have any coolant leaks luckily since I did not put the thread sealant on there you mentioned. I never heard of that for rnner to plenum bolts. The base i'm using is the Super Ram base.

FWIW, I have both pipe thread plugs in the two openings inside the plenum. I have no EGR (heads are not drilled for it) so I'm using a block off plate on te SR lower intake manifold. I'm actually not even sure what those holes are there for.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I know you've been through allot with that setup and could only sugest another ghost chase by looking into the injector wiring itself.
Maybe there is a higher resistance on the drivers side of the harness that is causing the Pass side to be richer.
Might try swapping pins "C11 & C12" just to see if there is the possibilty.
They are being driven by the same device but could be limited by a bad splice or something.
Quick to do and may indicate a reversal of the situation that you could investigate. (before someone gets a good deal on the SR)

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I'll try that tomorrow, JP. Thanks for the idea, may show something, who knows?

Only other thing I can think of is to strip it down to the heads and block and hope there is an intake leak I can reseal. I'm out of ideas otherwise.......

vernw

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE - swapped C11 and C12 and the problem did not change. So it is not a harness connection issue at that level anyway.

I also disconnected and plugged the vac lines for the brakes, AFPR, interior environmentals (which includes the "Orb of Power"), and even the MAP sensor. Ran (barely) extremely lean (maxed out) with the MAP disconnected so I had to clear the error and plug that one back in. No change in symptoms with the other 3 plugged off, so apparently I don't have a vac leak in my brake booster, the environmentals, or the fuel pressure regulator.

I also pulled and re-calibrated both WB O2 sensors, no change. The sensors definitely show the richness on the passenger's side - my LC-1 was blackened while the other one was not at all - it looked perfectly normal. So the NB sensor is apparently reading okay.

So, I'm back to square one - either I have a air leak on the driver's side or a fuel leak on the passenger's side.

I'm at a loss on what to do next. May try pulling plug wires at the distributor and seeing what differences each cylinder dropping out makes in the AFR, maybe that will indicate a specific cylinder problem.....

Anyone have any better ideas????

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

header leaks can pull air in also and cause a lean prob like what you have..

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Well, I've done the header gaskets several times, tried Percy's multi-layer aluminum, SLP's gaskes, GM gaskets, plus the current solid copper ones. What would you suggest? Think maybe the AIR check valves are bad? They're original as far as I know....

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

You might have to make adjustments to the IAC passages in the throttle body. Do a search on camaroz28.com in the LT1 section, they always have problems with split blms.

PCM Tutorial - Split BLMs

Slow89Iroc-Z

How would you address something like this with a stealth ram??

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I've read that article before and just read it again. I don't think it applies for the simple reason that the SuperRam plenum does not have dedicated IAC air ports in each runner tube. That being said, I may still close down the throttle blades and adjust the TPS position to see if it makes a difference. Right now my IAC counts are under 10 on a warmed up motor.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Have you checked your valve spring seat pressures. You may have a week valve spring or out of adjustment rocker arm, possibly even a bad lifter or flat cam lobe. I would pull the rocker covers off before going nuts and tearing down the intake, as they are not as bad as removing the SR.

If that fails you may want to swap injectors from one side to the other (real pita with SR, I KNOW) but for the sake of running out of ideas this may be the ticket.

We had a set of recently installed AFRs in the shop a couple weeks ago that had the wrong valve springs installed. Not sure if the specs got mixed up or what, but that car was all over the map, due to valvetrain issues.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

How would one go about checking the valve spring seat pressures? That sounds like a great idea to identify if it's one or two cylinders having the problem and/or ruling out bad lifter, cam lobe, or rocker arm on each cylinder. Good Idea, THANKS!

Now I just need to know how to check this....

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

For the seat pressures, they make a couple of different tools, these are the cheapest.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400105+301048&autoview=sku

For checking lobes on the cam, I have used a dial indicator on the push rods, but there will be some varience with the hydraulic lifters, but you should be able to get a ruff idea.

As for the lifters, that is a little more difficult. The best preliminary check, I have used is to start the engine up let it idle high for a minute, then quickly (5 mins or so) push on the rockers to ensure they have decent presure and are not loose.

I hope this helps.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Sure does, Thanks Dave. In my ignorance, I thought at first we were talking about some tool or means that would show the spring pressure while the motor was either running or while turning it over by hand. By that logic I was thinking this mystical tool would show something off in a particular cyl, but I see now my error and realize it's just not going to be that simple.... as usual.

bowtienick

iTrader: (1)

just a thought, what about the injector o rings? ive seen bad o rings leak air, even brand new ones. if you do end up pulling the injectors, have them flow tested, you may have one that leaks by (sprays more fuel). ive had to chase this problem before, argh!

vernw

iTrader: (2)

the injectors were cleaned and flow tested just this past October. Never thought about bad o-rings though....

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Vernw, Sorry to hear about all the problems. I can see its very frustrating. I wish I had some imput for you that could help. But instead you get my sympothy post.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

well vern for tools that would help while turning the engine by hand, you could use a compression tester or cylinder leak down tester. These would also indicate valvetrain issues. If you are looking for vacuume leaks, just get a manual gauge and tape it to the window, and do a couple WOT passes, you should see a predictable pattern in the vacuume. And if your SD is going to be worth a damn then you at lest need a min of 60 KPA vacuume at idle. I have gotten away with less, but these cars are usually on or off.

Exactly were are your O2 sensors located??? WBs are very sensitive to exhaust velocities, if it is not in a constant stream it will fluctuate some. I have seen on the dyno that the worst spots seem to be around the collector on the header.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the info and ideas, Dave.

I have a real problem getting a compression tester into 3 or 4 of the cylinders, d@mn SLP Tri-Y's are too close. I can't get the hose to flex enough to be able to thread in the spark plug adapter. That's why I jumped on the idea of the valve spring test. I'm trying to see if someone in NTTGA might have one I can borrow, else I'll buy one.

My SD setup usually idles about 40-45kPa (16-18 inches vacuum). What kind of pattern should I be looking for in WOT blasts? From my datalogging, the vac readings are all 95-100kPa at WOT.

As for the O2 sensor locations, keep in mind that I've got the factory dual cats car, so the exhaust banks don't merge until after the cats. Not only that, but the Tri-Y headers are actually two cylinders merged into one pipe and the other two merged into a second pipe so there are two pipes going into and out of the collector/flange. Kind of hard to describe. The narrow band is about 2" before the collector/flange going towards the cat (in the SLP factory location) on the driver's side. Since there are two pipes going into the collector/flange at this point, SLP put the bung in the pipe coming from the #3 and #7 cylinders. This pipe merges with the one coming from #1 and #5 about 8-10" past the flange. So I guess what I've been describing as the "driver's side" is really just cylinders #3 and #7. But the WB I have on the driver's side a few inches after they merge is reading pretty much stoich so it looks like the NB is getting an accurate reading and all 4 cyls on that side are "the same".

The WB for that side is about 16 inches past the collector flange on the horizontal section just past where it crossed under the oil pan and is turning to go back towards the cat. This puts in 6-8 inches past where the 2 pipes from the driver's side merge.

The WB on the passenger's side is also past the collector, about 12 inches or so, on the left-to-right direction section behind the front tire before it turns to the back to go to the second cat. Both WB sensors are mounted almost vertically at the 11-12 o'clock position.

From your explanation, these sound like fairly good locations to have the WB sensors if I understand you correctly.

I wonder if there is any chance I'm running into an O2 sensor grounding problem. These are ceramic coated stainless steel pipes. Would it hurt to tap into the grounding wire on all three sensors and run them all to a single known good ground? Like maybe a wire running back to the battery?

Other than that, I'm about to pull the SR off again, swap the injectors from side to side, replace all the O-rings, pull the intake and re-seal it, and reassemble everything with lots of RTV (may not even use gaskets this time). I'll also put a straight edge across the runners and make sure nothing is getting torqued down and twisted to maybe cause a leak.

Any other ideas?

JB97C5

I am going to make a few assumptions-
- Your AFPR is good
- Your injectors are all matched and operating at 100%
- Your 02 sensor is working

With that said, I've looked into your posts about your system. I agree with you and I think you have false air slipping in somehow and your car is attempting to compensate. I think your plenum and runners aren't lining up on one side and it is bent, allowing it to draft air into it.

You didn't put one side together first and tighten all the way, did you? That will jack it up for sure.

Which side is the 3 wire located on? Do you only have one of those? I am wondering if your readings are being thrown off by a one sided sensor and false air on the other coupled with the WBs.

If you have only one 02, weld a bung to the other side and see if your system reverse and you end up with problems one the other side.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

The 3-wire is on the driver's side, monitoring cylinders 3 and 7 (pls see my last reply explaining sensor locations). The 3 wire is the 3rd new NB sensor I've tried (2 were AFS-74 GM sensors plus one Bosch) and all 3 report the same. So it can't be the NB sensor. I've also extended the NB sensor harness and tried controlling the ECM from the passenger's side - result is it won't hardly idle or run in closed loop, so the driver's side fueling appears to be the correct amount. You may well be correct on the air leak being between the plenum and runners. The last time thru I torqued down the runners and then bolted on the plenum with new gaskets and RTV being used on the plenum to runners joint (RTV both above and below the gasket). Those runner bolts are a real bear to get to, so I've gone back and re-torqed them just to make sure they are tight.

Next plan, as stated earlier, is to tear it all down again and put a straight edge on the bottom of the plenum, on the runners while they are torqed down to see if they are canted any as well as check the straightness of the plenum and lid. I checked if the plenum would "rock" any before RTV'ing it down the last time, but maybe that wasn't good enough. I'll also swap injector sides and replace their O-rings to make sure the leak is not at that point.

I'm also going to ohm all the injectors and check the harness wiring for a possible bad contact at one of them just in case. May look into another AFPR just because the fuel has to pass thru it getting to the driver's side. If it is causing a restriction or partial blockage somehow, that could result in lower fuel pressure on the driver's side, couldn't it? If it did, then the passenger side would be spraying more fuel per pulse and be richer.....

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Might also want to double check the ports are matching up.
Could have a gasket overlap or something dumb like that causing just enough resistance to make trouble.
Just thought I'd add that since you'll have it apart.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Will do, JP - Thanks for the suggestion!

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

On your WOT runs you want to see the VAC returning past idle about 10Kpa as you decel and then back to idle as you coast down to slow speeds. If the VAC hangs or the car is slow to decel then this could indicate problems.

I think your WB are located pretty well. I know what you mean about the tri-y SLP's. I traded mine for some 1 3/4 shorties. I got tired of working around them.

If you really think it is a VAC leak, I have used the following method with some success. Slowly block of the TB with a block of wood. As you block it more and more the VAC leak should be pulling more and more air. When you have it blocked as much as you can without it stalling, then begine your hunt for the source of the leak, using propane, smoke, starting fluid, etc.

With this FI system looking for a leak without limiting the air is next to impossible. If you have a cam of any size the idle is already a little unstable, and the engine is pretty good at recovering idle. So it is hard to tell if you just spray fluid on a leak or not. With the air blocked it will usually die which is a more determinite answer.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Great info and tips, Dave - Thanks a bunch! I'll try to do the blocked off TB test tonight. I've used starting fluid, propane, water, brake cleaner, you name it, in the past but never thought about blocking off the TB at the same time. I never could notice any difference. But what you said makes perfect sense, so I'll give it a try late this evening.


I'll also do a WOT blast while datalogging to see how the vac numbers come in. Maybe that will show something, but I suspect my leak is probably a small one and is just enough to screw up the BLMs on one side of the motor so it may not show anything.

Yeah, those Tri-Y's with straight plugs are a bear. If I get this motor straightened out I may just put on some ported aluminum angle plug heads and part with my ported Sportsman IIs. The angled plugs look like they would help out some on these headers.

Sure appreciate the help and ideas! Maybe we'll get to the bottom of this yet. If not, I may be ordering an LT1 intake conversion from my good buddy Scott Lopez next week or two (and start accepting offers on a slightly used ported and polished SuperRam).....

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Had identical problem with the Miniram. Ended up that the pass side intake gasket was a tad lower and it was sucking in air. plugs were light on one side, plugs were dark on another.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

WOW - thanks for that info. If I can't find an upper leak using the board on the TB opening like mentioned above, I'll be pulling the intake and looking for the intake gaskets to hopefully show something amiss. Again, Thanks!!!

KillerZ302

iTrader: (4)

Hey, read your post. Get rid of that intake! It's crap.
This was written a couple posts after yours. Look for it. Title is ( Accel Pro Ram is finally done) posted by ZZ17iroc. Check this out...

Originally Posted by sofakingdom
I see you have a MiniRam in your sig. Did you replace that with this? If so, for what reason? What kind of times / HP di dyou get with the MR; and what does this setup give you?



Yes, I did replace the mini. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my mini, but there is a small design flaw for what you pay for. Meaning the mini has unequal air flow. Everytime I took my intake off the back 4 runners were always black and front 4 runners were clean. The front 4 would get more air than the back 4 leaving them richer do to our ecm's batch fire system. You could install a variable injector controller like the one accel has to fix the problem or a buy F.A.S.T. system/DFI. The bottom line is you are still left with unequal air flow.
With the single plane design all cylinders receive same amount of air and better overall drivability. The car still pulls past 6500 RPMS. I also gain more torque at the bottom do to the longer runners. The best of both worlds. The track opens on th 22nd of April.

Hope that helps buddy.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Except I'm running the SuperRam, not the mini....

KillerZ302

iTrader: (4)

Oohh! sorry, got confused. I would try pulling the intake and redoing the gaskets making sure that it seats right. Maybe its pulling air in from the bottom of the intake to head surface (maybe from the lifter valley)
Are the heads milled, if so how much? I had a buddy of mine had a intake leak problem beacause he milled the heads excesively and the intake would not seat right. He ended up using 2 felpro gaskets on ech side as a temp fix until he got better heads. It did work.
Just check the manifold to head clearance when your down there.
Good Luck. Keep us posted

vernw

iTrader: (2)

That's my next step if after one last try to find a leak up top. Thanks!

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

Vern - I learned to use sealer on every gasket when I had my SuperRam. It was such a PITA that I switched to the MiniRam. Using sealer corrected my runability problems from the small vacuum leaks.

Good luck!

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Did you put it on both sides of every gasket?

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Do you use it on both sides of the gaskets, or instead f the gaskets? All of them?

HiTech5

iTrader: (4)

Yes, I sealed both sides.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Great! Thanks for the reply

vernw

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE ---

I did the plate over the TB, couldn't find a leak up top that would be the source of my problem, so I reset the IAC and TPS, now I'm showing 28 counts at warm idle and .54v from the TPS. Still didn't help, so I pulled the plenum. Pulled the gaskets apart getting it off (were siliconed on both sides), no sign of any leak there. Currently cleaning the RTV off the runners so I can lay a straight edge on them. If not prblems found, will proceed with removing the runners and checking them for a leak, and continuing on to the intake manifold if nothing shows up. I'm also planningto re-do the injector o-rings and swap the injector sides. Any thing else you guys can think of?

RednGold86Z

iTrader: (1)

Sell me your car, hehe.

Try some open loop for a few days. See what the plugs and WB say. What do they read at WOT? Also check to see that all cylinders on the driver's side are firing (cylinder drop test). I actually do cylinder drop tests every few days when tuning these low quality chinese engines. Let's you know if the valves need adjusting, and if there's a ring problem (which both just happened on one car at the same time).

Are you running a different fuel rail? Are you running lots of hard steel line near the rail? Fuel pressure harmonics are a biatch in a batch system. Picture water hammering. The side that has the inlet is likely to be richer. IF the crossovers were rubber, it might be a different story, or if it was a dual feed rail.

3.8TransAM

Have u tried backing off all the rockers to zero lash?

Might find something with the lifters.

Try that and compare the readings.

Is the difference in AFR always constant or do u see the numbers skewing for no apparent reason?

later
JEremy

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I'm running the standard TPI fuel rail with my SuperRam. As for the hard lines, I'm running the standard hard lines from down below the alternator up to the fuel rail and the standard hard lines between the two sides of the rail. I've made no changes to the factory 91 fuel rail other than adding the Holley AFPR and SVO 30s. Since I'll be swapping the injectors from side to side as a diagnostic tool and replacing the O-rings, I'll check the interconnecting hard lines and replace their O-rings as well. Will also try to see if there's any crud built up anywhere in the rails or cross overs. It's interesting that the incoming side of the rail is the rich one. I suppose I could cut the cross overs and put in hose, or even figure out a way to split the feed so it goes to both sides. Just don't know if that would be a waste of time since GM didn't think it was needed nor have I heard anyone else ever say they did that.

I've got the plenum off and currently cleaning the runners top surface so I can straight edge them before pulling them. I did find a little warpage in the plenum lid itself (1/16th to 3/32nds on the front and passenger side), but straight edging the bottom of the plenum shows no warp problems so hopefully the top of the runners won't either. I'm guessing any air leak at the lid would not affect just one bank of the motor.

There has got to be some leak somewhere though - when I tried the suggested block of wood over the TB opening, I could completely cover it and the motor kept running fine. So then I went to a piece of plexiglass I had and it would seal. Funny thing is I had to cover the entire opening other than just a very tiny sliver on one far side to see any impact in the way it ran at all. I would have thought it needed more air than that to idle, but there was enough vacuum to hold the 1/8th inch plate on there all by itself.

A cylinder drop test is d@mn near impossible on an SR - there are two injectors on each side that are buried so far under the plenum that I don't see any way to pull them out short of putting some disconnects in the harness before it goes under the plenum. I guess that's an option, just hate hacking on the harness....

As for how much and when the AFR difference is, at idle the diff is about 1.2 - 1.5 AFR points. At cruise (2000RPM or so) the difference is a little less, probably around .8 - 1.0 AFR points. At WOT, aout the same as cruise if I remember correctly. Can check that once I reassemble if the problem still exists. The numbers do seem to skew around a little though, especially under light to moderate acceleration - they get closer together.

I've not tried zero lash, been using 1/4 to 1/2 turn lash. Since I'm still planning to pull the intake, I can see and check the individual lifters at that point. May replace them since they're kind of a funky set up anyway. The guy who built my engine used V6 hydraulic roller lifters in my late 70's era block. Those are shorter than GM's 350 lifters and have the oiling hole in the same approx. location as the non-roller hydraulic lifters. So in essence he converted a non roller block to a roller block by using the V6 roller lifters and the standard lifter alignment caps and a spider. I've been thinking about going the "right way" and getting some retro-fit lifters and the matching pushrods "just because". That may have to wait a few weeks though. Don't have them in hand rght now.

Did I miss anything?

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I just had a thought.
Are the PCV line on the TB swapped?

This would allow the motor to get air even with the blades fully closed and the IAC closed.
Topmost opening on the TB should be filtered air into the motor
(comes from in front of the throttle blades)
Bottom one should go to the PCV valve and draws air from the crankcase into the plenum (behind the throttle blades)
If the PCV is not biasing correctly on its spring or is otherwise flowing too much you could be fighting that.
Also I'm not sure how to confirm what p/n or ratings of flow each PCV is set to, but I know they do flow different amounts by design for different engines.
HTH.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm.... good question. The two ports on the pass side f the TB, top one does go to the passenger valve cover as a source for the PCV draw. However - the bottom one is hooked to my charcoal canister, not the PCV valve. The only other vac port on the TB is the little one on the bottom that used to be hooked up to the EGR solenoid. Since my heads aren't drilled for EGR I've got that plugged and a block off plate on the manifold.

My PCV is plumbed into a port on the intake manifold between cylinders #3 and #5. I've wondered about that location for the PCV return - I have no idea if that is biased towards certain cylinder(s) or what not. That's another thing I'm going to try and determine while the intake is off (haven't gotten that far yet, too dang much work to do for the office). I'm running a Summit billet PCV for a SBC, guess I should pick up a generic valve for what, a 350? 400? I have no idea. I also need to either insert a fuel filter into the PCV line to wherever or build a catch can, especially if I'm going to run it back to the TB lower port. Since the little bottom port is unused I can re-route my charcoal canister into it I guess. Otherwise I'll end up with a lot of oil in the plenum.

Thanks for the ideas!

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I had my bottom line connected to the cannister last year on my TPI setup and it was drawing air all the time. If you do not have a solenoid in that line it is probably the reason you could not get the response by blocking the TB.
I'm still wondering where I should run the cannister line to on the HSR.
Was thinking about just putting a small orifice inline and running it to the plenum. Its just a constant vac leak in my mind that I'll have to live with.

So the PCV was on the lean side of the motor?
Maybe you could try to make the PCV valve connection at a different point (like the bottom TB port) and see if the BLM changes.
then consider running the canister to the location where the PCV used to be.
Or don't run it connected at all just to see if anything changes.

vernw

iTrader: (2)

I've got the solenoid style charcoal canister, but I like your idea of running the PCV to the lower throttle body port as long as I can use some sort of catch can and avoid pulling oil into the plenum. I'll route the CC to the little port under the throttle body and put a plug in the intake where the PCV is currently going, or possibly "T" it into the PCV line. That might help, as you say. Or temporarily not connect it, another good idea!

I picked up a new FelPro 1205 gasket for when I hopefully get the intake off tomorrow (has to stop raining). Anyone think I should use gasket sealer on this gasket, or just tack it in place and install it "dry". It has the blue raised sealers around each port, if that matters.

Lo-tec

Unless your intake manifold is fubar'd, I would not use sealer around the intake ports.

For a catch can, it's pricey but works very well:

Accurate Machine Works Retail - PCV Catch Cans

vernw

iTrader: (2)

OKAY, I won't use the sealer. ANd they sure are proud of this catch cans, aren't they? Jeez!!!

Lo-tec

My pcv system made it look like the exxon valdez dropped a load in my intake manifold until I installed one. If yours is clean when you take it all apart I wouldn't worry about it. And there are cheaper alternatives; check the corvette forum for a some of them (the LS1's have a big problem with this).