cuisinartvette

Took these a few weeks ago while hacking away. Couple hiccups that still needed to be gone over at this point (obviously) but figured Id shoot some pics anyway. Little in the rough here but you get the idea

Parts have had some more love since then, ready to be flowed and installed.
Still need to cut the base of the pizza box to match

WIll post up some more in about a week or so with actual "finished" pics and of course start a thread with facts and flow sheet

Going on a 396 ci sbc.
Smallish HR cam being used mainly for autocross

Ill be bringing the base/maybe a runner to T Mamo's place , bolting the pieces to a set of 195 AFR street heads to see what the intake is doing/not doing and where. Ill post up
for the number thirsty crowd. Probably wont take place til late Dec/Eaely Jan when I can get some time to run up to his neck of the woods.

slickfx3

good job man... good deal too...

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Can you pm me how much you would charge for something like this, I have been really considering getting my superram/base ported.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Looking good! I took my runners one step father and guys told me to round the divider wall vs making it thin and sharp....might want to do the same!
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...am-should.html

cuisinartvette

Satisfied with the way these turned out. Will get a pic of them finished up in a few days complete with lid.
Know the pics look like hell, cant take a good one to save my life

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

What diameter is the opening exiting the runners themselves?

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Did you use the golf ball trick on the runners? If they can pass the golf ***** then you know you got the pinch area in the runners!

cuisinartvette

1.75 for sure could be a touch more would have to check.
Probably have to trim the gaskets some, so it could be 1.8.

Dont own a golfball, Im sure they will flow well though a very aggressive carbide (have a 3/4" dia helix cut I like to use for TPI stuff) was used all the way through on the runners and 100% of the base, very little in the way of tootsie rolls, just enough to get some of the scratches out from the bit. Being as they are not MY parts I dont get tooo carried away with the mad science project approach though. Making holes in things sucks. btdt no fun making that phone call lol

The runners were siamesed just under 2". Those are cake its digging into the base all the way through enough to be effective that takes a lot of time.

Ive made tentative arrangements to have the base flowed with a set of 195 AFR heads, if I can I may bolt on a runner to just for the heck of it. Probably be just after the holidays as my schedule is beyond insane right now.

Thought flowing it on a head that is popular with this intake would make for some interesting information so we can see what its doing and where. My guess is it wont totally keep up with the head, maybe it will; lets hope

When I post up Ill take some exact measurements on both sides and post up the sheets.
Hate spending the money but someones gotta lol; without knowing the # the work is kind of a waste if you dont know what effect it has imo. .

cuisinartvette

Weird, pics are so deceiving

The ported one looks smaller than the stock sized dirty one.
Mad camera skills...

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

1.75" is good. I don't think you can 1.8" without welding. I will be interested in seeing the results from Tonys flow bench.

By the way a golf ball is 1.68" in diameter.

cuisinartvette

Well could always cheat and use a Slazenger

Should pass one through Id think.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

do you use an air powered die grinder or an electric one?

cuisinartvette

Electric, one for carbides one for rolls
Different speeds/torque

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I have always wondered what electric tools would work for work like this. i did all of mine with a high speed drill and it sucks. what brand grinder are you using?

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

whats on the top left runner on the inside?

cuisinartvette

Metal shavings

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

oh good i thought it it was weldsorry i must be it you have those runners 1.75 all the way through that is awesome.

cuisinartvette

lol when that was taken I was working on them. Just sprayed a quick blast of brakecleen through it took a quick pic then kept going. Guess it does look like somethings wrong.

Just measured they are just over 1.75

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

what dies did you use to get all the way in there....i had trouble getting to the inside bend of the runners

cuisinartvette

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

those ports look huge

Calderone

Looks amazing !!!
Hi cuisin !!!

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Did you do any welding on this base? I cant wait to see what it is goin to flow. I may not need to spend the money to have welds added on mine.

cuisinartvette

No welding done on this one. Eventually a sonic tester will be in my grubby hands one day it will help maximize what can be had with less risk of going through.

RedGut86

Looking good. Can't wait to hear the results.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

yah I'm curious to see how this turns out too. My 383 might get a heads and cam upgrade and then this would be necissary.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

What's your basis as a point of comparison? Is there any kind of objective control number or criteria to judge the results?

cuisinartvette

Comparison is flow #s on a given head w/o an intake on it vs one with.

Should be easy to see if the intake is keeping up with the head or restrictive at different lift levels. The car will run the way its going to run but nice to have some info to peek at. Its coming from your favorite mfr too lol.

Imo without paperwork behind it one doesnt know what they have really dont except remove metal from parts anyone can do that. Im an info geek I guess. Could just flow the intake by itself but its more $ and this is coming out of pocket.
Owner isnt concerned about it more of "whats it going to run"which I kind of agree with, cant race a flow sheet.
But still....

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Its coming from your favorite mfr too lol."

Actually I think it is good to have some type of flow number. It will give you sort of a baseline.

Doom86

cuisinartvette maybe you'll get lucky and that intake will slow down the port speed of the AFR head and make it work better.

You can't really use a flow sheet to see how it works at different levels of lift because a motor doesn't operate at 28" water pressure. A very successful professional explained this to me (not a magazine salesmen), what you see on the flow bench happens at much lower lifts in application. They use a flow bench to check port velocity and not flow, flow is just part of the velocity equation. Until a "bigger man" replaces this guy by the fire I have to listen to him.

I'm in for the results, and don't think I'm knocking you I just wanted to retort the flow statement because it's so misleading. Most guys think flow is the do all end all and it really isn't. It has it's uses and they are few.



this drives me MAD! You port on something for hours over it looks great, get the camera snap off 20-30 pics to share and when you get them on the computer they look like ****. So annoying tiny shavings, and light source angles, can cast shadows that look like you turned your 5 year old loose with the grinder.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Cool, I'd like to see some realistic goals as to set expectations.

You're right, removing metal to get a flow number has little relation to "what's it going to run"... I'd just love to see something conclusive that your time was well spent. I know it's tough to do a before/after thing.. but.. just trying to avoid the inevitable dyno jerk...

Good luck!

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Baseline of what exactly? Proving that removing material and making a passage bigger makes more air flow? I'm not so sure what it proves.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Kinda reminds me of myself a number of years ago. I hogged the crap outta an aftermarket LTR setup. Went like 109-110 MPH every pass, from like 107mph. Not a bad improvement for two weeks of hand porting I guess.

Swapped in a stock singleplane street dominator with no porting. Added injector bungs, rails, an adapter milled out of aluminum and a 75MM single bore throttle body. MAN was that an ugly setup. Went 119-120mph every pass.

So flow is part of the equation, but the runner length and shape obviously has a large impact on what the car will run.

-- Joe

cuisinartvette

HAH! I hear ya....done a few things that didnt turn out all that hot and got lucky with a pic that made it look good, too so hard to judge. lol



Yes , I hear the air speed is too fast and will cause the motor to stall over 35mph . Someone oughta teach them how to make a cylinder head

Doom86

I was finishing up port work around the seats for the heads going on my Banzai 305 project earlier tonight and found using the Digital Zoom feature worked awesome for getting the right lighting. It seems to actually give you what shows up on the display on the camera unlike other modes where the metal reflections are over-powering or too dark. Maybe your camera will do the same.

I know we don't come to TGO to talk photography but I wanted to share my "success". Now if I can learn to shoot the damn thing like a gun I'll get some crisp pictures.

What heads was the guy planning to use for this 396 build up?

cuisinartvette

They will be 195 street heads

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

From the photography quandary here's a few tips:

1. NO FLASH that will kill you. If you can take the pics outside in bright light.
2. if your camera has MACRO use it.
3. Step as far away as possible and zoom into what you want to shoot.
4. Slower shutter speed if you can set it. Fast enough not to blur, slow enough to get the detail.

Hope it helps.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

That's all I'm sayin. I wish these things were more scientific so something can actually be proven. I'd love to know what was done right/wrong so it can be repeatable and improved.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Oh I disagree. I think they are a FINE head. I do think however on a 396 where the goal is to go fast, they are misplaced. I know your dead set on head brands, which is another discussion, but I would be looking at something larger. The 210s are even small for this, if speed is the issue but I like them better than the 195s.

How many times have we seen this? Guys put puny heads on these engines and then just a season later "UPGRADE" to the same brand, yet bigger heads. All that does is increase sales for the manufacturer. I don't understand why they just aren't speced correctly in the first place.

All this marketing about flow numbers has coerced people build some real dogs. Seems to me this spec is going the dumptruck route, but I reserve the right to be corrected.

Based on the car it's going in, weight, traction, stated purpose, what kind of times would you consider decent and what kind would you consider incredible? C'mon there has to be SOME baseline of success or failure here. And it's not a dyno number.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Baseline of what exactly?"

To Injectors Plus

1. He knows the current cross sectional area.
2. He knows the current taper if any.
3. He knows how the current intake port at the head matches up to the AFR 195 head.
3. He will know what the cfm is with the CSA and taper from the flow test.
4. How much of a cfm drop he will get with the AFR 195 heads bolted on with the above information.
5. This will give him some idea of what to expect from certain CSA's, port match and/or taper.

Last but not least he might get some valuable information, tips, clues from your favorite head manufacturer.

cuisinartvette

This is not a ***** out drag racing application, its going to be used primarly for autocross and street fun. Cam will be reasonable in the 220ish area. Stockish manners, brutal torque everywhere without having to spin the thing up high: it will live a long life. 210 isnt small for this by any means for what hes using it for remember its only a 4" bore.

Now if it was a 12:1 solid roller single plane deal then yes, more head imo would be the way to go.
Different strokes....

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

I love when you 2 are in the same thread together! any new pics for us cruisinart

cuisinartvette

Been shelved for the last week, had to get my 67 running again which is once again plagued with a vibration issue I cant seem to track. Got pulling the trans down to an art I think


SO, heres a pic of it collecting dust under my mess.

This coming week Ill be matching the plenum lid to the runners, get a few better ones of all of them. Waiting for the holidays to pass so we can flow this thing and get it to its owner.

Nothing glamorous going on here

cuisinartvette

Fitting the runners to the plenum base to see whats needed....quite a bit.
This should be fun






Just for fun, a pic of a 195 exhaust port and a 113 L98 port.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

John,

If he wants to play with the super ram let him play with the super ram. He's not the first, won't be the last.

This isn't Corvette Forum by the way. If people want to fight like waxer vettetards they can do it there.


-- Joe

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Cuisinartvette when I siamese the runners on the SuperRam I cut out the divider on the plenum portion. I then blend in the sides to match the runners. Going to be doing that on the one I have now. It looks like I will be doing pretty much what you are doing but I still have to figure on how much runner to leave.

Going for the 3rd harmonic wave but I am not entirely sure which rpm to shoot for. Maybe 5900 looking over his dyno chart. That should give him a nice shift point in the lower 6000's.

cuisinartvette

1989GTA similar thing will be done here, all getting cut out to match. On what wave with that CI dont know the answer to that one on this deal, has to help some even if only a little on this application. No reinventing the wheel here always fun to play with this stuff though.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"On what wave with that CI dont know the answer"

I hear you. I have an advantage on this one because we have the dyno results from a couple of weeks ago. So I know where peak power and torque were made. However he is changing heads to the AFR 195s so things may change a little bit.

Doom86

I doubt the dyno would be much use if he's changing heads.

You guys working with Dr.J out there why are you using sub par heads? I don't know the guy or anything but he doesn't seem to subscribe to the whole magazine spank head theories.

It's understandable in this 396ci build, obviously the guy doesn't want a HP motor (don't know if it's a work truck or car, guessing truck from parts) but the motor 1989GTATransAm is working on the guy obviously wants big power to win the dyno race.

cuisinartvette

Waiting for the owner to send his actual head down from Canada so "someone" doesnt want to call the test flawed. lol