jcurrieirocz

Hi,, i need to open up my pass side headlight motor and diagnose whats wrong...its only working some times and if i give it alittle turn it will go up and down fine...but seems like its getting stuck in the down position easyly.......my question is the internals that usully break interchageable with the oposite side motor?? i only have a spare drivers to rob parts from....also do the sunbird se motors from 90-92 have any interchangeable parts as i have 4 of those here. thanks

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

spend 5 bucks on new bushings!

jcurrieirocz

who has them for 5 bucks??

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

e-bay. you will have to search around under firebird but they are there

Epro

Hey Jeff, did I show you this before?

http://highperformancepontiac.com/te...0hpp_fristaid/

They toke some parts out a sunbird, and made the pop up headlights work.

noc_81

Well... I don't know if this would help, but my headlight issues have always been caused by the relays frying. $15 and 30 seconds later, it's always fixed.

If the bushings are the case, only rebuild if you have a lot of patience. Otherwise you can always find a new motor on ebay.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

1987-92 Firebird headlight motors are completely different from the 1982-86. The weak link in the 1987-92 motors is the hard gel bushings or inserts inside the large nylon gear. There are several sources for aftermarket bushings made of Delrin. I manufacture two kits to repair the 1987-92 headlight motors. TDS 207280 includes the 3 bushings to repair one headlight. TDS 209280 has 6 bushings (enough for both headlights). I also include a couple of screws and nuts, since the motor housing screws often snap off. Also included are two side cover and one motor gasket and a packet of synthetic grease. You can download the instructions that I include with the kits from the "Documentation" section on the right hand side of the main page of my web site.

Lon Salgren
Top-Down Solutions

l_dis_travlr

I wish I had known of those parts several years ago, when fixing the problem on a 90 Formula. Somehow I made it work with just some rubber bushings. I've seen this topic elsewhere, & scanned the info with the kit. It looked spot-on -- go with it.

crazyryceman

i have the same problem and i replaced the bushings but it still didnt work. it gets stuck when it goes down

DrummerDad

I would recommend TDS also. I rebuilt mine, and they work great. Good kit, and really not that hard to do. Worth the money.

jcurrieirocz

ok guys then if your talking about the newer motors im not talking about them....plus i know its not the relays i dont run any im useing a special switch to eliminate them!

so lon what do you know about the 82 motors as thats what im running. I suspect i cant just buy 5 buck bussings to fix it. I assume its eather just plain weak or is getting stuck (binded) as if i give the **** a little turn up then i can use the switch and it goes up fine and then down on its own fine.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

I have a headlight repair kit for the 1982-86 Firebiord Headlight motors. The kit also includes instruction sheet and a diagnostic guide. Have you had the motor apart? There are two styles of motor used on the 1982-86 Firebirds. This kit repairs those with a helical plastic gear, not one with the straight tooth plastic gear.

Lon

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I dunno bout yall but I just cut up a fat hotglue stick for the 'toopid bushings

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

wow

noc_81

I believe I once saw a page that was selling bronze bushings as a replacement. Don't know for sure, but it might be worth googling...

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Like Lon said the one TDS are Delrin bushings. Firm little suckers. I replaced the driverside one few years back. For $20 for the deluxe kit (2 head light repair bushing sets, gaskets, screws, directions, etc) I didn't think it was a bad deal at all. Once I took the OEM unit apart I found little bits of gel/plastic everywhere, so I had to spend a long long time picking all that out with a needle (it was packed everywhere).

Only real problem replacing them was I rushed when drilling out the holes for the new machine screws (OEM screws broke). My holes must have came out a little off center because the machine screw didn't want to fit perfect. It eventually came apart on me once so I swapped out to longer ones to fix the problem (I didn't even bother taking them back off the car to do that). Wasn't a problem with the kit, but an installer error due to hurrying on my part. I think the hardest part was keeping the spring loaded motor contacts compressed in while bolting the stuff back together. TDS instructions walk you through it all though, really easy once you figure out how to hold the paper clip tools.

my89

I am having the same problem. I used the TDS repair kit, the passenger headlight worked for 2 weeks, and now it gets stuck while down. What did you end up doing to fit it?

gulf_coast_228

I replaced my bushings in the headlight motors a couple weeks ago, and now they intermittently don't work. I'm thinking it's most likely a relay or a control module, since the motors act as if they're not getting any power at all. Does anyone know any methods to test these two issues to figure out which one might be the cause of the problem?

Any advice is appreciated.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

When you have a time that it won't work pop the hood open and turn the **** on top of the headlight motor. If it seems to be binding or tight, then frees up, I think I know what the problem is.

Here's what I think it going on. You may recall from opening up the headlight motor that there is a small bearing on the end of the worm-drove shafro of the motor. That bearing is supposed to be supported by a cup on the opposite end of themotor assy from the manual ****. There is a sheet metal nut and threaded shaft that contains the cup I'm referring to. If the end of the shaft and bearing are not supported by that cup the worm drive shaft will try to climb the large diameter gear when the headlight bucket has reached the physical stop. If this happens the shaft will go off center and lock up.The headlight motor won't have enough torque to start the cycle next time you turn it on or off (hence your intermittant symptom).

What you need to do to correct this is to hold the slot in that threded shaft with a standard slotted screwdriver while you loosen the sheet metal nut. Then back off the nut a bit so you can turn in that shaft a bit. Try turning it in 1/4 turn, then tighten the nut, again while holding the shaft with the screwdriver. Then actuate the headlight and see if this solves the binding issue. You don't want to tighten to in too far, which is why I recommend turning it in 1/4 turn at a time and testing it again until you get it adjusted right with no shaft binding.

Lon

my89

I'm having that problem..would it be possible for you to post a few pictures of what you are describing? To do that, do I have to remove the headlight again? Thanks for the help!

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Theoretically you could remove the small shaft that is opposite of the worm-drive of the motor, pop the bearing on it and thread it back in. I've never done it that way and have no idea if there is enough room to do it. As I described previously you need to hold the end of that shaft with a large blade standard screwdriver while loosening the sheet metal nut that locks it in place. Then unscrew that shaft. Most likely you'll need to remove the headlight motor again. If you choose to remove the headlight bucket to get the motor out (the method I prefer) then you're answer is yes. Some people claim to hae small hands and can get the three bolts holding the motor free and the nut off the end of the arm to remove the motor while the headlight bucket remains in place. My hands are too large and I've gotten my arm stuck between the headlight frame before. By stuck I mean really stuck. Fortunately my wife was working in the front bedroom at the time and I was able to chuck some rocks at the window to get her attention to help me. A little soapy water and I was free.

Lon

my89

I'm still having trouble picturing the slot you mentioned. You don't have a diagram or anything illustrate do you?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Look on the very bottom of the motor (opposite end of the **** that is on top that you can turn to manually raise or lower the headlight buckets). You'll see a short threaded shaft with a sheet metal locknut on it. There is a slot in the end of that shaft that you can hold in place with a large screwdriver while you loosen the sheet metal locknut. As I've previously written I doubt you can replace the ball bearing without removing the headlight motor again. It's kind of important not to have left over parts after doing the repair.

Lon

uemf

lon are you sure that's not on the '87 - '92 style ? I have 2 types of motors. the ones that are on my '86 have 2 internal gears(three wire motor) ... and the ones that were off of the P.O.'s parts car (which I was told was a '92) have one internal gear and has the big nut and slotted adjustment screw you are talking about (this is a 2 wire ) at the bottom of the worm gear (oposite end of the motor from the manual ****).

Tony

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Yes my description of the repair proceedure is for the two-wire 87-92 motors. It would be very helpfull if everyone listed the year of car they are trying to repair so the correct info can be given. I've also posted the info on how to repair the 82-86 3-wire motors in thie thread. It needs a completely different kit (TDS 508210). http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...roducts_id=118

Lon

my89

Just reporting that I took Lon's suggestion. I removed the headlight, opened the motor gear housing to inspect. Then I found the metal nut on the end of the threaded rod (hard to notice the nut almost as they are all painted black) and loosened it, turned the rod a 1/4 turn (it tightened in the housing) and tightened the nut. The light, which used to stick after 8 hrs. of inactivity, have been working well for the last 5 days. I hope they stay that way too.

my89

Ok, so yesterday I went to pop the lights and the one I fixed mid-June did not open the first time. I then flicked the switch again and it opened. I have been about 2.5 weeks since I tried the repair Lon suggested, which worked but now it seems to be wearing off. Does this mean that I need to turn the threaded rod in further, or could the bearing be worn out and need to be replaced? If so, where does one get a new bearing for that part of the headlight motor? Should I just consider a new motor soon?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Next time it fails to raise or lower, check if the cone-shaped manual **** is jambed tight. If so, then yes you're still having a problem with the bearing not holding the shaft centred. You'll have to open the unit to find out why. I sell used ball bearings.

If the **** turns freely then you have a headlight control module problem. Most likely a little corrosion on the contacts of the relay inside.

Lon

my89

How tight is jammed shut? I went and turned it a few turns by hand and did not meet any great resistance. Again, after it was started a few turns, the unit worked for the rest of the night. I expect it to be jammed again in the morning. I will then also check to see how tight the knurled **** is. If you are right and it is the headlight control module, should I undo the tightening of the screw with the ball bearing? Also, no new bearings can be obtained unless a new motor is purchased I assume? Finally, how can I be sure it is the module and not something else? What about the reversing switch built into the motor itself?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

By jammed I'm referring to the initial force it takes to turn the ****. If it is tight right at the start, then lossens up it is still a problem with the bearing not centering on the end of the shaft. If there isn't much resistance to turning then it is something else. As far as I know there is no reversig switch in the motor. It is controlled by the headlight switch and headlight control module. Of course you're following the troubleshoot instructions in your Firebird Service manual, right? The manual is available new from Helm inc. at www.helminc.com or used on eBay.

Lon