Recaro trans am

iTrader: (1)

I like your style!! WHo cares what everyone else has to say. When I shaved my handles I cut out the panel and welding in plates. I did that mod way before I knew of the panel bond stuff.

Just a little advice from experience with the door actuators....... Ive gone through many. lol
1. First no mater what kit you buy to actuate them (if remote operated) Make sure it has at least a 50lb solenoid. You would not believe how many times I had to clime through the trunk.
2. Install the solenoid as close to the lock/latch as possible. Mine is mounted right to it. That way the cable pulls straight down. The shorter the cable the better.
3.Make sure it has a decent door popper. If it does not push the door out it will just re-latch.

I bough my remote kit from summit and then ordered the larger solenoids after many smaller solenoid failures.

Gumby

One could make a little pulley to run the cable over and double its power or cut the power needed in half to operate the latch. Making it work allot less, should last longer.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Recaro......I bought the shaved handle kit from electric-life with 50lb solenoids mounted directly under the latch. It also came with a 12 channel module to operate other things down the road if needed. Great kit for $163. I also got their new door poppers and mounted them like they did in the article....check this out...
www.superchevy.com/technical/paint_body/bodywork/sucp_0904_door_handle_shaving_guide/index.html
And like I said.....I'm not worried about the cyclical vibration of opening and closing the door in the middle of a hot July cracking the repair cause it ain't gonna happen....the car is for weekend fun maybe 6 months out of the year and I won't need to slam the door....especially after I replaced the hinge pins etc with the kit from topdownsolutions

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Ready for primer.......

Recaro trans am

iTrader: (1)

looking good! I need to get back to my hood and wing repair, and then ill be ready for primer!

Gumby

Id agree, [I still need a new left door, just haven't come across a deal.]

I put a giant blob of bondo over a nasty softball sized hole about 7 years ago. Has to be 4in thick in the center n sort of smoothed out the size of a dinner plate. Hasn't budged a bit with years of door slams n heat.

no way 3M stuff is gonna come lose.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

4 inches thick?? That would be through your rolled down glass and pretty much into the interior door panel and probably add 5 pounds to the door. Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

91slammed

I love the custom expertise from the stock cars. Not a bad job, hope it works out. Maybe a milimeter or two off here or there, jk. Nice efforts, keep it up.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

just prime the driver's door........there is just a very faint line a certain angles and its just because I left some bare metal between the oem paint and the patch......might give it one more coat of primer.

1o80b

Good try but I'm sure it will crack

Rocketcar

I like the way you did that, nice work looks good!

Gregs_GSXR

nice work, the times are changing and panel "glue"bonding is more common today then before all high sports cars have panel bonding agent, light weight, strong, seals and sound deadings too.

Look at was what done 50 yrs ago...lead filler then came bondo, dont think the lead guys are telling the new young bondo users saying that stuff is garbage and wont last. However used properly it will and with out any issues. Now we have panel glue. Takes more then 75k psi of pulling to pull apart anything glued together.

ramairthree

should come out fine. keep it up.

keep in mind-
you can get a flux welder for under 100$ delivered

you can do a lot more damage than 100$ with a flux welder pretty easy

you can save a lot more money than 100$ with a flux welder with some attention

and I WISH I had had something as good as 3M panel bond for all the past things I have done with bondo, JB weld, gasket maker, etc. over the years!

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

Just got done with the clearcoat.......I know, there's a big run and some orange peel

91 Droptop

wet sanding 101

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

yea I already got a lesson with the rear of the body.....I recleared it after wet sanding and it came out near perfect

haps

iTrader: (4)

Runs and peel aside (hey, we all run something a time or two) I can see the filler. First and third pic especially.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I said I would post pics no matter how it turned out. I expected to see some lines......heck, the car is 20 yrs old....there's all kinds of imperfections all the way around it. I even found the image of the door molding piece in the rear quarter after I cleared it....I couldn't believe that came thru after sanding and priming!

haps

iTrader: (4)

Ok, so I'll ask the obvious question. Why wouldn't you have repaired those while you had everything sanded down? I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't repair all the imperfections before spending a bunch of money to repaint it.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

you have issues dude....this conversation is over.....please stay away.

91 Droptop

He said he thought he got it, he was surprised to see it bleed thru. Painting is best left to the pro's. Anybody who wants to try and paint their car, more power to them. No amature will get every line or high spot, hell I missed a spot on my car and I block sanded for hours (tiny spot but still missed it) I think we need to support peoples efforts here, after all this is all about advice and help. Lets all play nice and have a good time

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

ill be more interested to see how it holds up in the long run. the materials either could crack or shirnk.

mine was professionally done and you can still see where the material shrank.

Stonehenge

iTrader: (3)

So if you don't have any door handles, how you gonna get into your car..??? Just kidding, good job.. I hope you got the results you wanted ! Stone

Mr. IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

Man...there are some haters in here! I don't understand why many Thirdgen owners are so damn immature. This guy took the time to tell us about his own procedure to resolve a problem and many of your responses are negative.

I applaud your choice in doing it the way you did. I got alot of **** for painting my car in garage (all black paint job)....I guess haters will always hate.

Stonehenge

iTrader: (3)

I agree.. it's all about what makes US happy. I think he did a great job and he should feel good about it! Stone

91 Droptop

You two guys rock, I say support and help if asked. I do not know why all the negative opinions are out there but they are. Glad to see this guy get some kudos on a job most people would never even dare to attempt

deadbird

If I were to wild guess, I'd say it would be from the method.

Generally, if you want a flat panel, you don't patch on top of the skin, then build up to the added thickness of said patch with body filler to try to make a flat panel.

There are plenty of useless comments too, not everyone give a flying f--k about having a track car.

The problem with the outline is a solvent and dissimilar brand/compatibility issue. Generally, if you don't use a sealer between bodywork and topcoat(if mixing and matching products) , that is the problem that arises.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Interesting comments. He knew it was incorrect method in the very first post. He choose to take the "inexpensive" way out and didn't appear to do the research to bond panels correctly. It appears to be a quick, cheap modification executed without information and proper process.....and done to a third gen. As far as educational purposes are concerned, this is an example of how not to shave your handles. Coddle him all you want, I have no such intention.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

It's alright.........I'll feel better when the Phillies send the Cardinals back to St. Louis like the effen Triple A team they are.

GO PHILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haps

iTrader: (4)

Finally something we can agree on. Having eeked our way into the playoffs, it certainly doesn't look good. Really hope I'm wrong.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

haven't given it a cut and buff yet

VMX12Rider

I think everyone just hates because it's glue. Just like people give JB weld flak. I fixed a crank case cover of an 12 horse briggs with JB weld and it held just fine and ran for years. Ever been in a Jet Airliner? News Flash: it's 98% held together with Pop rivets and GLUE. Ever been in a power boat, bouncing across a lake at 65 miles an hour? The whole damn hull is made out of epoxy. The heat shields on the orbiter? Glued on... New cars are coming off the assembly line glued together. I don't see why gluing some not structural covers over an empty door handle slot would be too much for it.

Hipster

The panel bonds by design maintain a certain level of thickness to avoid squeeze out during clamping(via glass beads or other products in the formula), The material expands and contracts at a different rate than steel so you will never get away from the ghosting that occurs even with covering it up with body filler, A couple times in the sun and you'll see it.
The airplane example , well, by the example given, glue is not used as the sole attachment method, rivets are still involved. No OEM I'm aware of recommends adhesives as a sole method of attachment for panels, most use welding/bonding process together that can't be duplicated in the field.
And boats well, if there are using epoxy to glue epoxy sub-assemblies together they are using similar products throughout.
The strength of adhesives when first applied is not in question, the stuff seems to be a moisture magnet. I've seen more than one car come in the shop from a minor bump that could have been repairable , but needs a new quarter because though while still attached at points it's loose behind the quarter glass and rocker, wheelhouse, etc from the car flexing even though the prep work appeared correct. I've seen bad batches of the stuff and the stuff has a definite shelf life, and once opened if not used in short time frame throw it away. Although all these products have a warranty I've never seen any of them payout on one, it's usually the shop that puts the stuff on in the first place that foots the bill. Probably TMI , just some info for those contemplating using this stuff ,it has some pitfalls.

To the OP commend the efforts tackling the project.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

I'm a body guy/painter. With shaved door handles on my iroc. Who uses 3m panel adhesive at the shop. It works, but still wrong way to do this, but the biggest mistake you made is cutting the patch panels to big, shoulda been cut flush. And the final product shows all the flaws in the work you did.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

im pretty positive i can see where the body work was done in that pic

91 Droptop

If you cut them flush, how do you panel bond them? what too?

We all know he should have cut it and fit it with slugs and welded, he chose this route. He did it himself and he took alot of crap about it, he was on a budget and did it the best way he knew how. I have been in the business for over 25 years, I have seen a lot worse (try finding Monoply hotels in a wheel well to form the lip with a pound on Bondo on top) than this. Actually it doesnt look that bad, once in the sun I am sure it will be visable. The main problem will be expansion and contraction of the product, it eventialy will crack the filler. I give him credit for giving it a shot, most people would not even attempt it.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

backing plate

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Very simple, make the plates fit flush as you were gonna weld them in, grind the back of the plate and the pocket on the door where the 3m will go, bind them on and use your finger to wipe the extra 3m off let dry overnight and do the sanding and body work, it wouldn't fail at all that way, I've bonded metal together with this method and put it on my frame machine and tried pulling it appart, it ripped in a new spot. Made me a believer in the panel bond adhesive, which is used widely on new factory cars.

91 Droptop

The backing panel is rolled, very hard to just glue too. Getting clamps on it is not a problem but because the edge is rounded you need to ensure it is a perfect fit and placement. Depending on what product you use the cure time is up to 4 hours, I use the one for door skins alot(I also like the heat activated), I would rather glue a skin then weld. we still weld quarters on (full ones) I still cut the door to shave a handle, I guess what I am eluding to here is this guy did the best he could with the knowledge he had. He has been beat up over this post, I think he deserves credit for trying.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I appreciate all the positive and negative input......really. But the reality is that these doors have been out in the elements since July and have been opened/closed about 50 times.....honestly. There is NO evidence of the patch other than the body filler line that is visible on the driver's door. So to me it's not the patch itself but my attempt at hiding it. Like I said....I have three small kids runnin around me, a house and a full time job. The fact that I painted this car myself this year is a miracle. At least 10 different people have seen my ride and none have noticed the mod until I pointed it out. The bulk of my money is going towards suspension/drivetrain so if a bunch of phanatical auto body guys hate the fact that a hack can do just about as good a job as an over priced auto body tech then so be it. I'm happy with my first attempt. I'm sure you all effed up your first job to some degree.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Then...

...need I point out the irony.

Nevertheless, I suppose you're the one that needs to be happy with it.

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

There's no irony here.....and I never stated I effed up the whole job......I already expressed the fact that this method was not intended to be the correct way to go about it....it's an alternative with decent results. I stated my attempt at hiding it showed one or two barely visible vertical filler lines....wow..... Even if I welded a patch in I still would have added some filler and just might have had a line here or there....hell, there are no visible lines where I shaved the nose emblem or on the rocker GFX.....those mods came out alright. There is no magic to bodywork.....just experience and practice which is pretty much what this mod was all about.....if the patch comes thru I'll tear into it, fix it and learn from it....it's really not that important....sorry I hurt your ego haps.......would you like a sanitary napkin????

Andrew James

iTrader: (3)

Chillax. Your car? No? Then constructive criticisms and advice would suffice.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Ego is still intact. No worries. Incidentally, how do you open your door?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Some of you guys would be shocked and how many high end, muscle and classic cars are getting large repairs , like quater panels, glued on, these days.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Relax guy, no one is bashing you, just telling you how you should have done it to have a great looking car and not one with issues and flaws. Next time don't be so defensive and take people's advice. Otherwise keep making your car look like crap giving thirdgens a bad name.

Cadaver_Puncher

So I shouldn't fill a 2'×4'' gap in my hood with play-doh?

Screw welding and bondo, just get fiberglass doorpanels with no handles. Wait ...scratch that, get a complete nascar fiberglass body. No handles, headlights, taillights etc.
Then get the fake light stickers. It would be wicked light, save gas, and get you tons of attention. ( mostly from the local police )

But all said and done ...it's YOUR car and money so do as you wish. Nobody here was saying things to insult you, they were all offering help to save you headache, heartache, annoyance and wasted time and money.
Nobody is perfect ( but I'm so close I scare myself ) but for the most part everyone on here knows a tad to be able to help others.
if you listen, you might learn, then be able to pass it onto your kids.
Third geners are a special breed almost like a brotherhood or family.
We are just trying to help you out .

Hipster

It doesn't surprise me as what some shops get away with and what some accept as quality work.

A high end shop, getting high end dollars, for high end work, should have a Pro-Spot or similar machine and no need for glue, as I said earlier no OEM I know of uses glue as a stand alone to attach panels, there are some weld/bond procedures being used, but the equipment not available to duplicate it in the field.

I have done the same frame machine test as was posted in another post, and yeah it tore elsewhere, put it on a car let it age a few years and they blow apart when bumped. It has it's place when used in conjunction with welding, just not on an exterior surface. Not hating on anyone, just putting some info out there so peeps can make their own decisions

Cadaver_Puncher

But ...but ... the 17year old at autozone said superglue and duct tape with some bondo fixes everything ..


( sorry, I couldn't resist. Damn those voices In my head lol)

Hipster

lol