Ricco

Can anyone submit a status on longer term reliability of the Champion Rads? I installed a Champion in my Wrangler and it leaked where the core meets the end tank, got a replacement on warranty and that one started out OK but developed the same leak shortly after. This makes me nervous about buying another Champion, but of course my leaking problems could just be specific to the Champion rad for the Wrangler (lots of people with the same prob on wranglers).

I've been looking at other brands but seems like the Northern/Summit have worse fitment issues than these and cost more - so I could still be convinced to give Champion another try, just dont want to get another leaky one.

Other possibility is the TPIS rad - anyone running one of those?

IROCtheRoad

I JUST got inside from installing my 3 core. Like everyone says, the stock rubber "holders" have to be removed. I replaced them with a 2.5 x 2.5 square of rubber mat. I even reused the stock upper "holders," but I had to squeeze the radiator pretty good to make it work - but hey, it's in there nice and firm.

At the same time I'm installing LS1 fans. Boy that's a challenge. I took the stock radiator shroud and cut a near perfect straight line in the plastic just where the single fan curve is. This is leaving enough room to put the fans in and to keep a stock looking appearance.

I still haven't figured out exactly how to mount the fans, but I bought some radiator zip ties that I think will work.

I'll post pictures tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Those zip ties scare me. They are made out of nylon. Nyon does dry rot with heat so due to the heat from the radiator, I say thats a huge risk right there.

ryn28

iTrader: (1)

I don't like them either. I've heard and believe that they can help lead to core leaks due to the weight and vibrations of the fans being supported by the core and the constant rubbing of the nylon on the aluminum. I'd look to mount the fans with some brackets or on a shroud.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I agree with you 100%. I did opt for the shroud mount too.

IROCtheRoad

Thanks for the heads up. I'll see what I can come up with.

ZZ3 Z28

A long time ago I installed a Be Cool rad in my '86. Recently I upgraded from the factory single fan to a Flex-A-Lite dual electric variable speed cooling system #480. Also installed a Meziere 170 degree thermo and some Purple Royal rad coolant. Cooling problems are now history.

I cut the shroud to accomodate the new dual fan system and to secure it, I used four mounting brackets. Sorry no photo of them. I certainly didn't use any tie wraps.

ZZ3 Z28

The Flex-A-Lite fan fit perfectly with the Be Cool rad. It slid in like a glove. Plenty of clearance. Works as advertised, too. It is a variable speed fan where both fans kick on at 60% and then increase speed up to 100% as needed. As the temp comes down, the fans slow back down to 60%, then off. Really a sweet system

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Nice. But I would buy a different dual fan setup. The shroud around the dual fans restrict a percentage of free air flow from the Fog Light location in the grill. Just my opinion. Looks like a clean install though.

IROCtheRoad

I tried everything to get the LS1 fans to work with the radiator but, as far as I can tell, it's impossible without EXTENSIVE modification to the fan. So much that I wouldn't be comfortable using it.

I called up Reliable Radiator (see first page), whom I ordered the radiator from, and ordered a fan shroud and 2 fans. Stupid unexpected costs..... Hopefully I can recoup some of the money from reselling the LS1 fans.

The shroud will bolt up to the radiator and I won't have to relocate my power steering lines.

Click here for picture

cbrown

It appears to fit quite well and the price seems right. I'm working on a 86 Trans Am and I live in Texas. I hope the stock radiator works after I am done but just in case it doesn't I know where to go now.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

May fit well, but id prefer to by dual fans without having the whole radiator shrouded. Defeats the purpose of the forced cooling via fog lamps location and lower air dam.

ZZ3 Z28

What are you talking about restricting a % of air around the fog lights? There are no fog lights in that picture and there are none on my car. This dual fan set up is more efficient at moving air than the single stock fan this car came equipped with by a long shot. The single fan was incapable of moving enough air around such a big radiator that much of the air never got cooled. That is why there were wild temperatire swings of hot and then cool. Remember this is an aftermarket Be Cool rad that is considerably larger than the stock rad. This dual fan set up moves air across the entire width of the radiator, not just a small center section. And the fan control is variable meaning that the fans are not on full blast all the time. They come on at 60% then gradually increase in speed to 100% to cool things down and then gradually back off on speed. Flex-A-Lite has developed a very creative way to cool things off.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I never said in your fog light location. I said in the fog light location. I'm sure that your dual fans cool off and decrease in RPMs when cooling off. But I have a 3 row Champion radiator, one cooling fan with the wiring properly connected to the ECM. Might I add, in my region, the common temp during summer is on average 100* to 110* with 80% humidity. My temp crawls to 200* and drops down quick with only one fan (OEM at that).

ra3psd

Finished installing my radiator today. Went in pretty good, had to cut off rubber insulators on top and bottom, used 3M insulating tape on the bottom of the new radiator. Was a tight fit on the top, but overall not a bad fit.

IROCtheRoad

Here's a copy and paste from my thread.... cause I'm lazy.

Here's a few pictures of the radiator and fan install. As I said, there was no way I could get the LS1 fans installed, so I ordered up a shroud and fans from Champion Radiators. Overall I'm very happy with the shroud; it fit perfectly. Only bad thing is that you have to drill into the shroud to mount everything.

The fans come with radiator zip ties, but I chose to use hardware instead.

I had to cut the factory "fan clamp" thing along its center line. Ends up I could have cut a few milimeters more to get a better fit, but after dealing with that issue all day I called it good.


The rubber guards on the bottom had to be removed to get the fan to sit down right. I used a strip of rubber.

IROCtheRoad

It took a while to get the fans and shroud installed with bolts/nuts/washers. There wasn't much room to work with but patience prevailed.



I can't find a pigtail for the fans ANYWHERE so I'll end up cutting the connector off and adding my own setup.

Trannsmission cooler shown. Only 'problem' I'm having with this is routing the lines in a way that look good, but with rubber lines my options are very limited. Eventually I'll have to upgrade to a braided hose and AN stuff.

Edwardgp

I bought my aluminum radiator a while ago and it was one of the best investments I have made. The 454 runs at 180 degree's all the time.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

will these 3 core radiators work with a mechanical fan and my crossfire 305 and a 700r4

Edwardgp

I do not see why not bro.

6SIX6

iTrader: (35)

Awsome thread guys and ill be going with the one off Ebay ( Champion ) I think in the near future as Im not too keen on using a stock rad on my LSX set up. Once agin thanks for all the info

Edwardgp

OK let us know how that works out for you, running temp and stuff like that.

jamieschott

iTrader: (2)

Same as SIX here. Thanks for the info and reviews on this product. Was concerned about buying this before reading this for my Ls swap, But am sold now...

7thdarkangel

just got mine today. all fine but the transmission nuts were stripped out. called up customer service and there sending me out another one and picking up the bad one. a little aggravated but happy with the service. wanted to test drive the new engine this week end.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Your tranny line nuts where rounded off? Or the threads inside the radiator tranny line hook up where stripped? Epic fail if the QC didn't catch the stripped threads, unless it was installer error, ehem, over tightening the nuts on aluminum. :-S

7thdarkangel

came like that right out of the box. they are definitely stripped. looks like they rushed pulling it for the tester. you can wiggle the bolt in and back out. this is a definite QC fail.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Yes indeed. QC went down the drain. Sorry to hear that you got the dreaded manufacture defect man.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Is anyone running the Champion (or any aftermarket) overflow? If so where did you find space for it.

chevymec

iTrader: (5)

Subscribing to this for down the road !!

Beater79TA

For those of you living in hot climates and running the cars hard, my experience in Phoenix AZ with these radiators is that they are garbage. On two cars that are run hard at both road course racing and the local SCCA Autox courses, the cars can not be kept cool with these radiators. After a friend lost the second engine to overheating, he decided to cut the radiator end tank open to see what it looked like. here are a couple of the pictures:





And the inside of a factory unit:


He also found that the tube size was only 0.025 inches compared to 0.040 for a factory radiator. Small tubes coupled with the numerous pinched ends of the tubes as they enter the tank very likely caused serious flow issues. What doesn't show in these pictures is the number of crimped tubes behind the transmission cooler. Virtually all of those tubes are crimped partially closed.

After I install the Ron Davis Racing radiator that is being built for the 88 GTA, I will be cutting mine apart as well to check on construction quality of the Champion unit. I expect to find small and damaged tubes in mine as well.

The radiator works great with 3000 cfm of electric fan wired directly to the battery if the weather stays below 70 degrees and we don't drive the cars hard. But any higher or any type of competitive driving and the temps start to climb fast. We've spent almost a year trying to get these radiators to perform in the desert heat but I've given up and will be upgrading. My other car (92 RS) already has a Ron Davis unit and stays cool year round with no issues. A friend running a Be Cool unit also has no issues. Even my IROC with the factory original radiator runs cooler than the car with the Champion unit in it so I can't say I recommend this radiator to anyone based on experience so far with multiple units.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I live in the Imperial Valley, just west of the Colorado River, with is just west of Yuma, AZ. I have no issues with my Champion radiator. I currently have a 160* thermostat and the Hypertech 127062 ThermoMaster MemCal. The hottest Ive hit in the middle of the summer (average of 110* in July - August) was around 190 - 210 after a good street race. You may of had gotten a bad core or poorly inspected core.

Beater79TA

That might be true about quality control but 3 of us got the 3 core radiators at about the same time and all 3 of us have cooling issues in Phoenix. 2 of us have tried multiple fan combinations to try and pull more air without much luck. The other keeps burning up engines road racing because it won't cool efficiently at speed. He's actually on his second Champion radiator because the first one started leaking after 8 months. I expect Josh (JJB) to not be having issues any more since he moved back to Minnesota last fall. I'm giving up on this one though.

FWIW: my GTA runs a 160 thermostat with the ECM programmed to turn both fans on at 170. The fans are directly wired to the battery to reduce voltage drop. The fans are Flexalite units rated for a total of 3000 CFM with a shroud. At speed, the car will remain below 200 degrees as read by the ECM not the gauge. In traffic, you can't drive it very far without the temps climbing well into the 230 range. The air dam is in good shape and there are no obstructions in front of the radiator like debris to restrict flow. The water pump has also been replaced with a new GM unit. I expect to find lots of interesting things when we cut the Champion into pieces after the replacement goes in. I understand that the combo in the car is fairly hot with 10.5:1 compression and aluminum heads but my forced induction car runs cooler even with a 3 inch thick intercooler in front of the radiator. The main difference between the two cars is the forced induction one runs a Ron Davis unit not a Champion. The fans are the same. The water pump is the same. The thermostat is the same.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Is there a EGR Valve delete on these affected cars? Deleting the egr system can cause overheating because there is no exhaust being introduced into the cylinders. If there is no exhaust being fed, the upper sections of the cylinders get hotter. That is rather strange that all of the cars are overheating. Hhhmm. Check out this section on our TGO site,,, https://www.thirdgen.org/overheating . I'll also check in my GM Camaro shop manual for possible causes. What year are the vehicles?

Beater79TA

To the best of my knowledge, all of the cars have the emissions equipment appropriate for the year of the vehicle. I know my 88 has everything and based on the emissions numbers and datalogs the EGR is functioning correctly.

My 92 runs cooler and does not have any emissions equipment on it in addition to the obstruction of a FMIC.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Hmmm.

camarotucker

iTrader: (2)

Quality is poor at best, mine was built out of square. Design is flawed, radiator is 3/4" too tall. Be prepared to turn the lower core support into a "w" shape in order to accomodate the end caps. Make sure to have a large sledge hammer for the install.

DrewsCam

iTrader: (2)

I got a 3 row that is aluminum but not really a name brand and it works excellent.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

No issues with mine. 3 core with 2 3000cfm electric fans. Stop and go traffic is NJ with high temps and humidity.

Beater79TA

Have to ask what brand and model those fans are? Virtually everything I'm finding shows individual fans in the 3000 CFM range being large enough that only 1 will fit. If I go to 2 fans, the individual fans get smaller and it takes 2 to go over 3000 CFM.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I wanna know what fans you have too!

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Forgot what brand without looking at my build thread. Virgo or something? 2 16" fans mounted on the front and back of the radiator with custom brackets. The fans overlap eachother about 2-3 inches and both blow toward the motor. Also have a trans cooler mounted on the radiator with no issues. After I fixed my charging system the car never ran hotter then 185 in miserable hot weather

I have pictures under engine swap titled "finally my 383 build". Or check my gallery

Beater79TA

1 on each side of the radiator explains it then. It's pretty easy to find 16 inch fans that pull that much air.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I HAVE SOME SUPRIZING RESULTS!!!!!!! I kind of had to bend the truth about my radiator but I got some exciting results in regards to the pinched/crimped shut cooling lines. I emailed Champion Radiators and they responded with some good info. Below is a copy of the replied email that I recieved.......

You can contact your distributor and you can get an exchange. The issue has been fixed (assuming all old stock is gone)


If we sold it to you give us a call.

Geoff
714-974-1650
800-650-9395 Fax
http://www.championradiators.com




From: "blah blah blah" <blah blah blah>
To: ledfootracing@sbcglobal.net
Sent: Thu, May 10, 2012 1:50:38 PM
Subject: Contact Form Notification

Notification for ChampionRadiators.com
Log on to your account (3542644) for the details of the order.Date: Thu 10 May 2012 2:50:35 PM MDTName
Chevy86 IROC-Z Email Address
blah blah blah
Phone Number
000-000-0000
Message / Comments / Questions
Hello. About 8 months ago, i bought a CC951 radiator. But I came across a messageboard that was focused on the very same radiator by Championship. As I looked at the radiator from the pictures on the messaeboard, I became concerned because the cores inner tubes where sqeezed shut and or dented in such a way that it restricts coolant flow. So I became curious and looked into my radiator and sure enough, my radiator has the same crimping of the lines. Seems like this is a failure in quality control. What can we do to fix this issue? Here is the link that focuses on the radiator,, https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cool...guys-want.html

Here is the link to how the CC951 looked on a persons radiator and mine looks very similar in quality below,
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...0-post330.html

I need a good cc951 because the $220+ price I paid is for the worksmanship, material, and performance of the product, not the looks or defects. Thankyou.

Beater79TA

Not interested in another one of these. Turns out there are a lot of people out there that have had issues with these for a number of years. I'll stick with one made to my specification from a local shop.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Is that supposed to be impressive? My autozone special OEM replacement works fine on the road course with 30 minutes straight of hammering the car. Personally I don't find a 50 degree rise in coolant after a "good street race" to be impressive at all. Car should run solid at thermostat temperature.

Regarding the manufacturing issues. Are you guys surprised at all? You bought a cheap part and got cheap results. I hate to be that guy. But I hope this was a lesson learned.

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

Your from a place that doesn't get hot like down here in the Mojave. That's your opinion. I got mine. As for a cheap radiator? Nah. I have good results in mine and I'm satisfied. Yes there may be some guys who arent happy with the product. But I'm sure there are others who are satisfied. Also I'm sure you would hate to be me. Heck, I would hate to be you. No insult intended.

itsMikey

mine works fantastic..got stuck in stop and go traffic a week or so ago for like an hour -__- FML.. i kept looking at it and the car didnt go over ~180-190 with a 180 thermostat..havent ran the car hard with it yet but satisfied so far..oh and it was like 75 or so out..southern cali weather FTW!!

Chevy86 IROC-Z

iTrader: (17)

I remember that kind of traffic. I hated the El Cajon interchange where the 215 and the 15 join. The 10 and the 215 ain't so bad.

ImBrandon

This topic has just made me paranoid as hell haha.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Don't confuse where someone is located with where someone is from.

Honestly, I have been out on the track in 90 degree weather. If you really think 30 minutes straight of abuse at 90 is easier on the cooling system than 15 seconds of abuse in 105, then you would be wrong. 30 minutes of abuse in 60 degree weather would be harder on the cooling than 15 seconds at 105.

Think about that, 30 minutes straight. 4x 30 minute sessions per day.

Wow, way to bring out the hate. Thanks for keeping it classy.