Father & Son 1st Car Swap Project Chronicled - Page 6 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

flyitlikustolit · 06-04-2005, 11:16 AM

that's no joke. i'd kill for a media blaster right now.

This ad is not displayed to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on ThirdGen!

kboehringer · 06-05-2005, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sellmanb
.......but it will not be nearly as cheap as if you got one from a junkyard......The stock one bends way too easily......But I'm sure you guys would be perfectly fine w/ a stock one (from a junkyard, that hasnt been cut and re-welded). I wouldnt re-use that torque arm... I could only imagine how much it will suck when the weld breaks.........

Sellmanb & TGO Friends,

We found a new-er torque arm this morning (before the rain started again..... SHUCKS!) You'll laugh like heck when you see this one!

We certainly feel more comfortable with the "New-er" ('86) J.Yard piece ($9.00) than the butchered old one (Circa '82). I assume the design must have changed a little to include the holes. Otherwise, the '86 model seems identical other than a little more bending on the edges.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

kboehringer · 06-05-2005, 06:27 PM

TGO Friends,

We've spent the majority of the weekend UNDER our Z-28 and several at the J.Yard. The Belly of our Z-28 needs to be squared away so that we can be ready for the engine and tranny. The Shortblock should be back at the end of this week. Hopefully we can be installing the Crank, Rods, Pistons and assembling the shortblock next weekend.

The attached photo shows a modification to the fuel system that we're going to have to address. Apparently, the fuel line for the Cross-Fire set-up must have been on the driver's side. To get the gas back over to the passenger side (to meet the mechanical pump), the previous owner tried this little trick. We could hardly see the line with all the crud under there. Now we have to transition it to the front properly.

Is there any reason why we couldn't run it straight to the front (like original) and cross behind the cross member just in front of the oil pan (or on the front side of the member)?

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

EDIT: Used Smaller Photo.....

kboehringer · 06-05-2005, 06:43 PM

TGO Friends,

We think we now have the PROPER STOCK tranny mount for a TH700 into a '82 Z-28. However, the metal in the area is too thin to drill and tap. We'll have to either fish some nuts down inside the channel or cut a hole in the side of the channel to get some in there. I remember watching a Trailer Hitch Installer putting nuts through a frame that were attached to wires......Wonder if they'll sell me a couple...I'll have to check. Anybody ever seen those? What the devil would ya call 'em. Nuts on Wires?

The mount we found has been blasted and painted. It's a bit shorter than what we had to start with. It looks like it will mount down farther and in the proper position for the tranny.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

five7kid · 06-05-2005, 08:28 PM

You're on the right track.

Believe it or not, the fuel line is almost where the factory took it. I didn't think much of that, so I routed the line across the front crossmember to the fuel pump. It seems to me that it would keep cooler that way. It was certainly easier, too. I have the V8 line in the garage attic, but there was a stud the factory used at the top of the tranny tunnel to mount a clip to hold the line up there in the V8 car, which is missing in my V6 car. I can't see if it's there on yours or not, I'd guess not.

I opened up the drain holes at the end of the frame members where the tranny crossmember mounts up to slide a nut up there on a box end wrench. A bit shadetree, I suppose, but it worked.

DAVECS1 · 06-06-2005, 12:25 AM

I take it you guys will not be needing the trans mount I have. Thats cool I am glad you guys found one. I feel bad I did not get it out to you soon enough. My offer still holds and next time I will try to get on the ball about shipping a little faster.

As a thought on mounting the cross member, I always thought that the backing metal was in the frame it just had to be tapped. Otherwise maybe you could weld some nuts to some small plates drill the holes you need large enough to fit the nuts inside and then weld the plates to the frame. It may lower the cross member an 1/8th or so, but I don't think that will hurt anything.

LT1guy · 06-06-2005, 10:09 AM

If you are just trying to get threaded holes in the subframe to mount your trans mount, you could use threaded inserts. I have seen them listed as "rivnuts" and "nutserts" or something like that. Basically, you have a gun (similar to a rivet gun) and a threaded insert. Drill the hole to the proper size, insert the rivnut, and pop it in place with the gun, just like installing a rivet. You can get them from NAPA (they'll probably have to order the kit, but the Atlanta warehouse has them usually), Snapon, and other tool suppliers, or if you have any friends who do sheetmetal fabrication they may let you borrow it.

five7kid · 06-06-2005, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVECS1
As a thought on mounting the cross member, I always thought that the backing metal was in the frame it just had to be tapped.

Not on '82 models.

kboehringer · 06-06-2005, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVECS1
I take it you guys will not be needing the trans mount I have. .......

Dave,

No. It seems like we "probably" have the bracket we need. LT1Guy encouraged us to try a J.Yard on the North Side of Atlanta. We've been able to find quite a few parts at that location than we had not been able to find at the other yards. We did notice SEVERAL different set-ups for the T-700. We suppose some of those could also be "Owner" mis-assembly but there were definately a couple different set-ups.

Quote:

.....weld some nuts to some small plates.....

The metal of the channel is SOOOO thin that we don't know if nuts alone would be appropriate. We can't figure how much stress is applied either up or down on the bracket. It might not be too much but it seems like nuts alone without a plate would be kinds weak.

The machinist at work offered to take a piece of 1/2" Cold Rolled Steel (CRS). Don't ask me what the heck makes it different than regular steel and drill and tap holes in it to slide into the end (like Five7Kid did with the nuts). That's probably what we will do.

Sincerely,
Kurt

BruceEmbry · 06-06-2005, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
TGO Friends,

We've spent the majority of the weekend UNDER our Z-28 and several at the J.Yard. The Belly of our Z-28 needs to be squared away so that we can be ready for the engine and tranny. The Shortblock should be back at the end of this week. Hopefully we can be installing the Crank, Rods, Pistons and assembling the shortblock next weekend.

The attached photo shows a modification to the fuel system that we're going to have to address. Apparently, the fuel line for the Cross-Fire set-up must have been on the driver's side. To get the gas back over to the passenger side (to meet the mechanical pump), the previous owner tried this little trick. We could hardly see the line with all the crud under there. Now we have to transition it to the front properly.

Is there any reason why we couldn't run it straight to the front (like original) and cross behind the cross member just in front of the oil pan (or on the front side of the member)?

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

EDIT: Used Smaller Photo.....

Hi,
I know that the car was orginally Cross-Fire.
On my 82 that came with the LG4, there was both a fual-line and a fual-return line. The mach.-fual pump used on the LG4 engine had 3 connections: Fual, Fual-Return, and Carb.

Both of the Fual and Fual-return lines were routed up the drvier side and crosses over to the passager side somewhere around the transmission. The Fual Tank Vent line for the canister comes out on the driver side.

I made use of the orginal fual line and return for the TPI system. I mounted inline fual pump and filter in rear of the car on the drvier side frame rail.

Sincerely
Bruce Embry

kboehringer · 06-06-2005, 07:59 PM

Third GEn Guys,

When we were at the Junkyard we got a hose piece to the power steering that had a sensor in it. The n ew harness needed the sensor. I noticed that the other line was different than ours it went out to the raditaor and made a big loop across the front and came back. My Dad says he doesn't lknow why that is like that. Our pump hose doesn't do that What does it do? should we use one of them?

Derek

BruceEmbry · 06-06-2005, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
Third GEn Guys,

When we were at the Junkyard we got a hose piece to the power steering that had a sensor in it. The n ew harness needed the sensor. I noticed that the other line was different than ours it went out to the raditaor and made a big loop across the front and came back. My Dad says he doesn't lknow why that is like that. Our pump hose doesn't do that What does it do? should we use one of them?

Derek

Hi Derek,
It functions as a Power Steering fluid cooler. It was added because of the use of electric fans that are cycled on and off with temp. You should use it!
Bruce

kboehringer · 06-07-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sellmanb
Since you'll be replacing the tranny mount, you ought to get a poly trans mount bushing, and torque arm mount bushing from Spohn's website.

Sellmanb,

Found them on Spohn's site... Pretty reasonable price also.... $24.50 for the Tranny Bushing and $14.50 for the torque arm mount. We'll be placing the order soon. I'm going to give making a "Homemade" (at my plant) Wonder Bar a shot. If it turns out like crap.... I'll add one of theirs to the order!

Replacing these with Spohn parts is a real good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

Sincerely,
Kurt

kboehringer · 06-07-2005, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BruceEmbry
Hi Derek,.....You should use it!

Bruce,
Thanks for the response.... Derek will get the opportunity to remove the item from our favorite J.Yard car. (see attachment). I've suggested that he get more involved in asking questions at TGO and this was one thing he remembered that I didn't have an answer for.

FYI....Maybe a good idea for those building with scraps
We've been taking photos of all the J.Yard cars we get parts off of. Derek is documenting in (MSExcel) the; J.Yard/ Year/ Model/ VIN/ Block#/ Photo#/ Part(s) we take from each car. Just in case we need that info at a later date. The car below gave up it's wiring harness and torque arm & mount. It may also give up it's power steering lines if they are still there this weekend.

Thanks Again,
Kurt

91formulaSS · 06-07-2005, 09:15 AM

If your "homemade" wonderbar doesn't work out for you, I'd suggest buying one from TDS (banner at top of page). It uses three mounting holes instead of two and doesn't have the fitment issues that the Spohn one does. Not knocking Spohns products, I own many of them, it's just that there have been quite a few people on this board that had to clearance the mounting holes on the wonderbar, not that it's a big deal. I just hate grinding on new parts.

Nick

five7kid · 06-07-2005, 11:07 AM

It's not a sensor in the PS line, but rather a switch. If you're idling and RPMs drop, the ECM cuts the pressure to the PS to help "unload" the engine.

As I understand it, that is...

speedingpenguin · 06-07-2005, 01:17 PM

Do junkyards usually care about people taking pics of cars?
I've snuck my digital camera in a few times to grab pics of how stuff was mounted or whatever, but have always been a little hesitant to be snapping pics, as the guys at the junkyard i go to often are pricks and i prefer not having to argue with them about stupid stuff like that....
The smaller junkyards though i might start taking pics and stuff....
How many thirdgens are at the junkyards you go to? (Out of curiosity)
The ones up here are fairly packed!

kboehringer · 06-07-2005, 10:28 PM

speedingpenguin,

We've never asked permission, but we have never seen any signs indicating that photos are not permitted.

At the U-Pull-It places they look in our tool bucket before and after entry and our camera has been in there...They've never said anything.

RE: how stuff was mounted or whatever
That's why we started bringing it into the yard. Derek decided that it would be cool to have a "Complete Digital Scrapbook" and I wanted to save some additional info. in case we need it. Sometimes we use the camera to SEE what we're after (i.e. sensors up under the exhaust manifolds). Since we're using wiring off another car I wanted to have every tidbit of information about the donor. We even have the serial numbers from the computer, although it was damaged by another part VANDAL and we didn't buy it.

RE: How many thirdgens are at the junkyards you go to? (Out of curiosity)
There are a couple yards in Atlanta (http://www.pullapart.com/) that we frequent. Each location probably has 1000 cars. On a good day they have about 15 Third Gens at each location. The inventory changes weekly and is available online (so are the prices if you want to check). We have to go on a regularly to avoid missing out. The smaller U-Pull-It yards in the area may only have 5 or 6 but are not as picked over or destroyed by Vandals as the big yards.

We haven't used a full service "Wait-Here-While-We-Get-It" yard because of $$. Once we get to crunch time and are missing those one or two little gizmos we'll end up getting robbed at one of those.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

PHOTO: Our aluminum manifold donor Z28....

kboehringer · 06-07-2005, 10:44 PM

Five7Kid,
RE: ....It's not a sensor in the PS line, but rather a switch....
Sounds like another very good reason to keep the computer and avoid "Stone Basic Wiring" as we had initially planned.

91formulaSS,
RE: ...three mounting holes instead of two...
Derek found a photo of the one you describe on one of the other threads by performing a search. That's the kind I'm gonna try to duplicate.

QUESTION:

The wonder bar plate is attached UNDER the sway bushings, the third bolt is to the side into the frame. If we use a little bit thicker plate (1/4") will that adversely affect the sway bar? We have over 100# of 1/4" CRS scraps.

Sincerely,
Kurt

91formulaSS · 06-08-2005, 09:39 AM

1/4" is thick, but it shouldn't adversly affect your sway bars function. Think of people using a lowering springs, that lowers your frame and consequently your swaybar brackets 1-2". If you are really concerned, you can shorten your endlink spacers by a 1/4" to keep your sway bar at the propper angle. but I don't think it's necessary.

Also, I don't know if it was mentioned yet, but you should really search those JY's for the 36mm hollow front sway bar and 24mm solid rear sway bar. Then buy new poly bushings and endlinks (preferably greasable). They will really keep the body roll down in the corners.

Nick

sellmanb · 06-09-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
Sellmanb,

Found them on Spohn's site... Pretty reasonable price also.... $24.50 for the Tranny Bushing and $14.50 for the torque arm mount. We'll be placing the order soon. I'm going to give making a "Homemade" (at my plant) Wonder Bar a shot. If it turns out like crap.... I'll add one of theirs to the order!

Replacing these with Spohn parts is a real good idea. Thanks for the suggestion.

Sincerely,
Kurt

The shipping costs a bit from Spohn, so beware of that. If you guys are doing a real good over-all freshen up of the car (or make it safe to drive again, I dont know what the prior owner was smoking when he did some of the stuff to the car you've described) then you might want to spend the extra money and get the full car poly bushing set. People swear up and down about how much better poly bushings are compared to the rubber GM ones.

kboehringer · 06-09-2005, 10:57 PM

Sellmanb & TGO Friends,

We're trying to keep busy until the ShortBlock is ready... Yesterday, we got under the car and removed the front sway bar brackets and took some measurements. The lower ball joints, pitman, idler, and link appear new.

While we were under there we noticed that it seemed like the (k-member) could be removed with only a couple bolts on each side. For a moment.... I considered pulling the whole thing out from under there. However (thankfully), the thought only lasted a moment.

Quote:

Originally posted by sellmanb
..... If you guys are doing a real good over-all freshen up of the car or make it safe to drive again.....

For now I'll provide all the $ to address all the safety issues. We do want to get the Z-28 running properly and safely.... we are getting just a little anxious! There are still a couple high dollar parts on the yet-to-buy or yet-to-pay-for list (i.e MSD Ignition & CC Carb {if we can't find one in the J.Yard}).

Quote:

Originally posted by sellmanb
..... I dont know what the prior owner was smoking when he did some of the stuff to the car you've described

It's really amazing that someone would have gotten into this Z-28 and driven it without a tow truck and an ambulance in the rear view at all times. We've probably all seen this kind of mechanic work a hundred times before.

However, every person we've come in contact with at TGO IS a perfectionist that will not settle for that kind of garbage work! Not one person here has suggested the use of duct tape, super glue, or bailing wire. Everyone wants to do a professional job on their F-Body and wants to share the PROPER way of doing the job correctly. I think this is the reason Thirdgen.org appeals to me so much.

Sincerely,
Kurt

stenseltizm · 06-10-2005, 12:41 AM

I have a carb off of an 86' caprice classic. I'm not sure what cc stands for, but I'm assuming computer controlled. I believe this four barrel was, but I'm not sure. If you want it, it's yours. I ship things all the time ups for my company so let me know and it's on its way. I'll take some pictures and pm them to you.

I'm still looking for someone local that can teach me about carbs. Unfortunatly I'm young enough that all my hand-me-downs were electronic ignition fuel injected. Its good to see that your teaching your son the forgotten art of carborated engines. I've never had a carb until this holly 4150, and i can't seem to get it right. I'm sure that you and your son will cherish the knowlege and experience gained in this project.

BruceEmbry · 06-10-2005, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stenseltizm
I have a carb off of an 86' caprice classic. I'm not sure what cc stands for, but I'm assuming computer controlled. I believe this four barrel was, but I'm not sure. If you want it, it's yours. I ship things all the time ups for my company so let me know and it's on its way. I'll take some pictures and pm them to you.

I'm still looking for someone local that can teach me about carbs. Unfortunatly I'm young enough that all my hand-me-downs were electronic ignition fuel injected. Its good to see that your teaching your son the forgotten art of carborated engines. I've never had a carb until this holly 4150, and i can't seem to get it right. I'm sure that you and your son will cherish the knowlege and experience gained in this project.

A cc-carb or Computer Command Control Carb will have three electrical connectors on it. They are:
1) Electric Choke, single connection.
2) Fual/Aire Ratio Control Solinoid connector thats located on top of the float bowl area of the car. This is a two wire connector.
3) Thottle Position Sensor connector, three wire, on the front of the carb.

The CC-Carb or more properly term CCC-CARB first appear on GM cars in the late 70's. Everyone back them complained about durablity. For the 16 years and 204,000 miles that I ran the LG4 engine in my 82 Firebird, I did not have a single computer failure. The only ofther part of the CCC system besides the carb that I replaced was the O2 sensor. O2 sensors had to replaced about every 2 years to keep the car running corectly.

But due to the problems with the carb, I decided to switch it over to TPI with a new 350 engine.

kboehringer · 06-10-2005, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by stenseltizm
.... If you want it, it's yours. I ship things all the time ups for my company so let me know and it's on its way. I'll take some pictures and pm them to you.

stenseltizm,
If the carb you have has the electrical connections (or even a hole where they were) that Bruce mentioned we'd love to have it. We can find little pieces if there is something small broken or missing and we have two(2) non-Computer Controlled Quadra's that might be able to provide a nut bolt or something if needed. Derek and I will compensate you for the shipping and a little bit extra for your trouble.

We rarely find a Quadra carb in the J.Yard and when we do it's been vandalized or broken in some fashion. We found one the other day that was intentionally hammered. Wonder if that guy felt COOL after smashing it up? IDIOTS!

Thanks again.....

Sincerely,
Kurt

91blkta · 06-10-2005, 09:31 PM

Time moves fast and I think its great to be able to do what your doing with your son. Every one that had a strong interest in cars as a youth would of loved to have memorys like the ones you are creating now. I would of loved to have this type of bonding time with my father as a youth. But life doesn't always allow the time and funds to do things like your doing. If your in your search of junk yards and come accross the buttons over the heater controls for a 91-92 trans am let me know I have some that don't light anymore its the fog light, rear def and trunk release. Not sure if you have been looking at any trans ams prob not because most are tuned port.
What I realy enjoy about your post is your just making a reliable safe f body. Not some big motor with lots of aftermarket parts that pulls high hp #'s. But you have left options open for upgrades in the future. I hope your son has the time to enjoy the car for many years to come. Now it has quite a history its part of the family in a way.
I have a son on the way and I hope that I will have the time a energy to bond the way you are with your son.
Keep us posted on the progress best post in a while.

kboehringer · 06-10-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 91blkta
........the buttons over the heater controls for a 91-92 trans am let me know I have some that don't light anymore its the fog light, rear def and trunk release. Not sure if you have been looking at any trans ams..........

91blkta,
We'll be happy to keep an eye open for them. If possible, PM us a digital photo of them in the dash. I will download it into my PDA, and Derek and I can make sure we have the right buttons if we see some.

We usually look at ALL the F-Bodies just in case we get lucky with a nice set of seats or some other little item or aftermarket product that we can make use of.... Actually, we pulled a brand new set of rotors and brake lines off a Firebird just a week or two ago. Poor guy must have just had the brakes done a few days before the car was destroyed.

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

91blkta · 06-10-2005, 11:44 PM

The 3 buttons over the heater controls. I also want to thank the owner of this car for letting me steal the picture for visual ref. I want ones that still light up, but thats hard to check at the junkyard so the cheaper the better grab as many as you can if you can find then for a few dollars a peice or have a pick and pull deal day. I cant find all of the swithches new and the one's I do find are $$$$. Keep your eyes out for the big plastic screws that hold the trim in trunk together too need black one's. Thanks in advance Jim

91blkta · 06-10-2005, 11:56 PM

Here is what my car looks like, picture is not my car but good example of what it looks like. At work right now have limited pictures so using one's online.

one of the best looking stock trans am's but opinions very.

kboehringer · 06-11-2005, 06:45 PM

TGO Friends,
Looks like another weekend down the tubes in Atlanta. Been raining all day and the forecast for tomorrow isn't any better.
Guess Derek and I will spend the day cleaning and organizing the tools! DARN! I gotta build a garage!!!

{91blkta, we'll keep an eye open for your switches...}

Sincerely,
Kurt & Derek

kboehringer · 06-12-2005, 08:20 PM

TGO Guys,

My baseball game was Rained Out so my dad and I went to the junk yard. We wanted to get tail end of the transmission. We noticed that the one we had was not the right one. When we noticed the torque arm was messed up, we started looking at all the ends of the transmissions in the junkyard and none of them looked like ours, they didn't have the three bolt holes for the right holders. My dad said that the welds on the torque arm holder had looked too good to be done by the last guy who owned the car, maybe one of his friends welded it.

We also got the powersteering line Mr. Embry said to get.
My dad fixed the photo I attached.

Derek Boehringer

mw66nova · 06-12-2005, 09:28 PM

i believe that bracket is the B&M torque arm mount for retro-fitting the th350 into a thirdgen.

kboehringer · 06-12-2005, 09:47 PM

mw66nova,
Thanks for the info. It looked too good to be "homemade".
If anybody NEEDS it, let us know (it's FREE if you NEED it) We don't need it for our T700. A TH-350 wouldn't be an improvement over a T700. Would it?
Sincerely,
Kurt

RS Chris · 06-12-2005, 10:22 PM

The 700r4 will be fine for what you guys want to do. I would recommend a rebuild with a shift kit, but thats up to you guys and your budget.

The th350 would be better for drag racing but won't get the mileage of the 700r4. 3 speed vs 4 speed.

Keep up the good work, you guys are going to have a nice ride when it's all finished up.

JPrevost · 06-12-2005, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kboehringer
mw66nova,
Thanks for the info. It looked too good to be "homemade".
If anybody NEEDS it, let us know (it's FREE if you NEED it) We don't need it for our T700. A TH-350 wouldn't be an improvement over a T700. Would it?
Sincerely,
Kurt

How much for shipping?
I was going to build one of those brackets myself until I get around to building a custom crossmember.
If you've pulled the engine and trans together you'll swear up and down at the "Good" tailshaft. Those 3 long bolts/studs are a PITA to remove. because the trans tunnel is only so wide. It's taken me a good 15 minutes every time I've undone the stupid torque arm mount

. Having it bolt to the tailshaft would be a blessing.

kboehringer · 06-13-2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JPrevost
How much for shipping?

JPrevost,
Don't know for sure but can't imagine it would cost for than $3 or $4 to mail the thing to you. Where I come from, FREE means FREE, and I have no desire to make money on shipping.

I just finished bead blasting the bracket and the "New" TH700 tail piece. It's kinda tight.... I think it must be intended for the TH350 rather than as an alternative to the provisions provided on the TH700. But if you grind maybe an 1/8" off a tiny little area (off the bracket near the speedo hookup) you can make it work.

PM me the address if you need the bracket. Mail me back whatever the USPS sticker says the cost was. Give me a couple days to get it over to the post office.

Sincerely,
Kurt

kboehringer · 06-13-2005, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAVECS1
....As far as that combo is concerned here are some of the basics. ....1. Comp Cams PN 12-236-3.....

DaveCS1,

We tried to order the Cam today but the number above is not a good Comp Cams part#. We spoke to a Rep at CompCams (after a 45 minute wait) and gave him all the particulars (i.e SB-350, '82 Z-28, CC Quad, No Stahl Converter, Headers, Etc.) and AFTER he suggested we throw the Carb, Computer, and Dist. in the Trash (NO KIDDING

) he suggested the following Cam:

Comp Extreme Energy
12-238-2 Cam Kit (Cam & Lifters)
Adv./Dur 262/270 - Lift .462/.469 - RPM 1300-5600

He must have been late for a dinner or his girfriend was on the other line, either way our 60 second phone call answered very few questions. I was concerned about the lower RPM number being a little high. I sort of understand the numbers above but assume the RPM number is the "Range of the PowerBand".

I thought that the following would be a better fit for our application but he disagreed....

Comp Extreme Energy
12-234-2 Cam Kit (Cam & Lifters)
Adv./Dur 256/268 - Lift .447/.454 - RPM 1000-5200.

ADVICE PLEASE! Those who have been following this thread know what my son and I are after.... Mild Performance Upgrade with maybe just a hint at Idle that there have been some modifications under the hood, and it must be computer compatible!

We need to order the Cam tonight (or tomorrow at the latest) to be ready for the build this weekend! Let us know your thoughts!

Sincerely & Respectfully,
Kurt & Derek

P.S. Promised Derek he'd get to drive the Z-28 on his birthday with new paint for sure...... "Birthday: August 18th!" Lucky I have 2+ weeks vacation on the books!

mw66nova · 06-13-2005, 11:28 PM

what is the lsa on that cam? any idea what duration is @ .050? from what i can tell, you'll like that cam( the one you picked out), but i don't know if it's computer compatible (reason for needing to know lsa). it will be a very mild performance increase though...

lsa stands for lobe seperation...

five7kid · 06-13-2005, 11:31 PM

CL12-256-4, grind XE256H-12. Xtreme Energy 256/268 advertised duration, 212/218 @ .050", .449/.456" lift, 1200-5200 RPM basic operating range, 112 LSA.

speedingpenguin · 06-13-2005, 11:34 PM

Hey!
Good news for me, started my engine for the first time today! Man was that exciting! Took forever to get the car to start, and the timing is STILLLL way off, but it runs and thats good enough for me for now :-)
Such a good feeling when the engine roars to life and its like "Wow, all that money and work finally paid off"
Probably never had a bigger grin on my face just pulling a car 5 feet into the garage..... but hey :-D the REAL fun is still to come!

Anyhow, about the cam.....
On the one hand, the people at Comp Cam's i'm sure know their stuff, but at the same time, it sounds like you got stuck with a crummy customer service person. I'd probably call again tomorrow and try and talk to someone different, who ISNT in a rush, and who understands your goals. Another option of course would be to call Summit Racing and see what they can suggest. Although their tech support people probably arent experts when it comes to cams, they could probably at least get ya on the right track or could serve as a second opinion.
In my opinion, a 1300-5600 RPM range isnt too bad.......a LITTLE high probably, but thats just like a general statement of where the most power will be made. The cam in my engine is supposedly in the range of 2500-6500 RPM's, though this is my every day driver and probably wont ever see much higher than 5500 RPM's. I didnt choose the cam, though, so theres not much i can do about it. And it sounds nice at idle, so i dont mind :-P

Anyhow, good luck with choosing a cam and stuff, and even MORE luck for meeting your "deadline". I bet ya can make it, but if I've learned ANYTHING durring my whole engine/tranny swap, it is to NEVER think that you'll get everything done on time and everything will work out perfectly. I think ya can probably make the "Deadline", but just dont expect everything to go smoothly, though money and time probably arent as much of a problem for you as they were for me, cause i was totally unprepared for what i had to do.

Anyhow, I'll have pics of my car up somewhere on this forum some time soon, maybe even a vid, so keep at it and keep everyone posted! i'll be checking this thread every day looking for progress, so GET TO WORK

Heres a pic of when we first rolled the car outa the garage today.....took about 5 hours to get the thing started and running after that. The kid in the pic's car needs more work than my car i think, LOL.....took him 3 minutes to start his Accord, and i could hear the belts squeeling alll the way down the street when he left, LOL

kboehringer · 06-14-2005, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by five7kid
CL12-256-4, grind XE256H-12. Xtreme Energy 256/268 advertised duration, 212/218 @ .050", .449/.456" lift, 1200-5200 RPM basic operating range, 112 LSA.

Ordered (From Jegs)
Thanks....
Kurt

DAVECS1 · 06-14-2005, 10:31 AM

Sorry for the late reply. I have been in Brazil. Work is never done. Any way I am sorry for the way you were treated by the comp cams rep. They pretty much are good for nothing anymore. They got too big too fast, and now they do not have enough certified personell to answer the tech lines. At any rate the cam exists. The one recomended by the rep would of worked well it is about the same as the one I suggested. I think the one you ordered will work great also. It should be very easy to tune, good on gas, and should make for an all around decent running engine. Once again I am sorry. I think I cause you guys more problems than I do help. So I take no offense if you take my suggestions with a grain of salt. Just to let you know i was not trying to lead you on a wild goose chase here is a snap shot of the catalog.

kboehringer · 06-14-2005, 11:15 AM

DaveCS1,
No big deal we got a good cam ordered and it's very similar to the one you suggested.

The rep probably didn't check the marine section of his listings. He was sort of abrupt. I was really surprised he went out of his way to tell me to throw my set-up in the trash.

I've been working with TGO for months talking about this car and our intentions and although some of the TGO guys had suggested what they thought was a better set-up (i.e.TPI) none of the guys on this board (that have real experience an Third Gen. F-Body) suggested tossing the deal in the trash.

I don't take anything you suggest with a grain of salt your input has been very valuable!

Thanks again,
Kurt

DAVECS1 · 06-14-2005, 12:34 PM

You do not need to throw the set up in the trash! It is my opinion that most NOT ALL aftermarket suppliers feel better about their abilities if they can treat a 50-100 dollars savings as no big deal, when infact a majority of there business comes from the shade tree who is just trying to make ends meet and still have a hobby. I would guess that mayb 5% of those companies busines comes from big spenders like seen on television. Some of these companies need to think twice before they speak, and price their merchandice, or soon we will all be driving chinese craftsmenship. If customer service is no good, then why even deal with an english speaking company? They are expensive!

Some people have a hard time dealing with the fact that someone is not trying to build the ultimate horsepower for their buck. Some of us want drive quility and insignificant things like driveability. They look at us as strange life froms or something. Keep up the good work guys. My door is always open.

kboehringer · 06-14-2005, 09:48 PM

TGO Friends,

Finally some pieces (although only a few)are beginning to go back on! (see inset photo). Our little work area is bursting at the seems so we installed hooks in the ceiling to hold all of it. It's hard to believe all this is going back onto one car!

Derek is out of school for the summer. He spent the entire day priming & painting brackets, sway bars, head lamp buckets, etc. that I bead blasted at work. (rattle can method! no yellow parts!)

We'll be keeping busy preparing the engine bay and by harassing the UPS guy every day until our parts arrive! We're going to the J.Yard this weekend to see what we can find, and to look for those few parts our TGO friends asked us to keep an eye out for......

Sincerely,
Kurt

mw66nova · 06-15-2005, 12:28 AM

what do you guys need yet?

i saw that you got a new front end from an 85+ car, i have an entire set of 85-90 gfx with front/rear bumper that i'd let go for relatively cheap if you'd like them...guess you wouldn't need the front bumper cover though...

let me know, i have tons of stuff, and am not that far from you.

kboehringer · 06-15-2005, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mw66nova
what do you guys need yet?

mw66nova,
Thanks for the offer. There are only three big, and two little things remaining on our MUST HAVE LIST.

1.) CC Carb (although stenseltizm may have one for us)
2.) Computer (LG4 Carbed).
3.) CC Distributor to replace the Vac Advance Dist.
4.) Wiper Motor (to match Wiring Harness)
5.) Washer Bottle w/Integral Pump (to Match Wiring Harness)

We'll look at the budget once the engine is in the hole and almost ready to start... At that point I'll probably splurge for a Complete MSD Ignition System thus eliminating Item #3. Item #4 & #5 sould be found at the J.Yard this weekend for less than $10.

Items on our wouldn't it be nice list.....
Seating (Front & Rear)
Interior Panels (Rear Speaker Area, screw holes everywhere)
Rear Speaker Cover Panels
Rear most interior panel at hatch (Ours is crap/cracked/broken)
Headliner (T-Top Variety)
Carpeting (We'll buy this NEW)
Cover Interior Panel w/Fuse/Wiring Cover (Above Drivers Feet)
New Z-28 Emblems (Gold or any Matching Two for G.Effects)
Dash Pad (Ours isn't OK with only a small crack or two. We've seen some that are horrible...But it's a pipe dream to think we'll find one in good shape in a J.Yard.)
Glove Box Cover (Same pipe dream as above)
Wonder Bar (I'm Making this at the plant...Jury still out on this)
Sub-Frame Connectors (My welders are making these at my plant now.) We'll use them to reinforce the Frame/Body and help eliminate further damage to the rocker areas.

The Z-28's body is in great shape (aside from a bit of damage under the passenger door rocker panel) so we don't really need any exterior body panels or parts.

The biggest favor we could ask for is give us Locations/Info on any good Reasonably Priced Pull-It-Yourself salvage yards in your area of Georgia. We've attempted several web searches without any success.

Sincerely,
Kurt

flyitlikustolit · 06-15-2005, 01:31 AM

collins auto salvage in auburn, GA. I don't know how to get there, but they're cheap, and I could take you there. also, i may have a computer for you. lemme look around.

mw66nova · 06-15-2005, 07:31 AM

Bob's Pick-n-pull is in the Macon/Byron area and is reasonably priced.

however, i have a wiper motor from an early f-body, give $10 plus shipping (what i've been asking for them) and we'll call it a day.

i'm trying to think but i think i threw out the old-style washer fluid bottle i had...if i run across it you'll be notified.

i also have a computer controlled quadrajet that a buddy of mine has at my shop. i'll ask him if he's willing to come off of it (shouldn't be a problem, he's in the same boat i am with money being tight and still trying to build an f-body). it will have to be rebuilt though.

kboehringer · 06-15-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mw66nova
.... i have a wiper motor from an early f-body.....old-style washer fluid bottle..... i also have a computer controlled quadrajet ......

mw66nova,

Thanks for the line on the J.Yard. We'll give them a try sometime in the next few weeks.

We have two wiper motors already. Our orignial ('82) and a newer one ('90). The F-Body ('82-92) must have had a couple different motors as neither matches our '86 harness. We don't want to cut and splice wires unless it's a last resort. There is also a fitting issue as the provision in the firewall does not lend itself to the '90 model without modifications. There is no big rush on the wipers/washer as actual driving will not take place for a few weeks. It's just one of those things we didn't notice when we changed the harness. If we don't get lucky this weekend, we'll send a photo of the '86 connectors and if your unit matches we'll be happy to pay for it.

We have the OLD style container and need the NEW Style with the pump attached to the container. The OLD motor had the pump attached to it and the newer models have a seperate pump at the container. It shouldn't be a problem to find, we've seen several at the J.Yard but didn't realize we needed one until a couple days ago.

We may be interested in the Q-Jet if the one "stenseltizm" has doesn't work out.

Sincerely,
Kurt