Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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yeah, i kinda figured i would have the same prob if they sent another set to me. i could have made them work .. but for as much as they cost, i shoudn't have to. besides ... free manifolds and 200$ to get them jet-hot coated .. saved me 700$ .. lol.i'll put it in the car else where i am sure.
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i used the stock 77 transmission mount. you'll have to make a plate to move the mount back about 2 1/2 inches. you'll need to get a custom driveshaft. cut the computer and harness out of the car. wiring it up is simple. you'll need electric sending units for oil/water. stock gauges work but are not very acurate with aftermarket senders. i used a griffin radiator from a 77 trans am and made custom mounting brackets.
Thanks for the info, the car already has a carb so do i still need the computer stuff? Also what about the throttle, do I have to modify it at all, and do u know where i could find or how much a custom driveshaft is?
Originally posted by BigWerm05 what pontiac color is your block (daturbosix), is it the blue from 58-65 or 66-71?
its the 66-71, i belive "pontiac metallic blue" is the name.
and i wanted everyone to know, i just recently installed my tubular k-member from AJE racing, and now the indian adventure headers fit perfectly. on the drivers side, the only issue is one primary tube is really really close the the bolts that hold the clam shell to the k-member, and the pass side, i had to shave about 1/8 inch off of the oil filter adaptor.
and from the looks of things, i will have to take the number 8 primary tube off everytime i change my oil but whatever, i feel its worth it.
Originally posted by Kross4031 any chance of getting some pics of it ?
yeah, but bear with me.. my camara can only take 1 photo on a set of AA batteries, so i gotta borrow my buddys. ill try to get a few tomorrow after class.
Originally posted by daturbosix yeah, but bear with me.. my camara can only take 1 photo on a set of AA batteries, so i gotta borrow my buddys. ill try to get a few tomorrow after class.
some nice guy hooked you up on that crossmember huh? also, doesn't tony or someone have a digi to borrow?
__________________ my car thats never done
"I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
First Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '05, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '06, Best Modified Camaro Thirdgenfest '07 , Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
MFBA March 2008 Featured Calendar Vehicle
Which K-Member did you get, mounts/no mounts, Pinto Rack/No Pinto Rack? Im just interested because If I get the IA Headers i wanna know which K-Member will make them fit.
im pretty sure any tubular kmember would make the IA headers fit. but i have a AJE kmember with the factory chevy engine mounts for the frame side but bought the IA adaptor motor mounts for the engine side. i am retaining my factory front suspension and steering.
daturbosix, none of teh pics are coming up where I'm at, so I caint tell if you're runnign a remote oil filter or not. Just wondering about the oil filter issue w/the headers.
__________________ 1977 T/A - sold
1985 Firebird - sold
1994 Camaro - sold
1978 Formula - 400 --> 463 beast winter buildup
1987 T/A - LB9 dd project **new**
i know when i fitted my i.a. headers on my engine outside of the car the primary tube hit the oil filter housing. i had to use a small oil filter. and by the looks of it in the car now. i would have to hire a really small contorsionist to remove that thing. a remote oil filter is definately the way i would have went if the headers fit for me.
I am getting rid of my '71 charger and picking up an 82 trans am from my parents (mom don't drive stick) this weekend. It has a numbers matching 305 and 4spd. I plan on taking the 305 out and storing it. I've seen that a lot of people are having problems with header fit etc. I know that the 350 will swap easy, but my question is can I swap a 400 or 455 just as easily? And if I put in a 455 will I have to mod the suspension? A guy I know said dropping in a 455 or anything bigger than the 400 may require quite a bit of work. I am looking for advice on this. I've always went with the "stuff the biggest thing you can in it" mentality in the past....how does this pan out with a T/A?
the 455 i put into my iroc was only 65 pounds more than the 350 and all the crap attached to it. so modifications to the suspension .. only if it needed it before.
I sadly ended up dropping the Pontiac 400 Swap. I optioned for the 383 Stroker.
As for an Update the 383 is complete(Edelbrock Performer 750 cfm carb, Performer RPM Air Gap Intake, Crane Powermax Roller Cam...558 Lift 248 Duration, Harland Sharp 1.6 Roller Rockers, Jegs Valve Springs...600 Max Lift, Eagle Forged Rotating Assembly, TCI Street Fighter 2500 Stall, B&M Street/Strip Shift Improver Kit, B&M Console Megashifter). I went with the 373 Gears. I beefed up the rear end a lil with an auburn posi and Moser Axles. The stroker took out the stock rear end, lol what do ya know.
I love this damn T/A, Runs 11.40's in the quarter!!!
got some ?'s gonand o this next year or maybe late this year, i have a 400 poncho and a pontiac turbo 400 , im gonna buy the indian adventures mounts or chief many horses , whatever it is , and then buy the spohn tq arm setup , will it work or will i have to move the spohn stuff back too . Like is the mounting of the pontiac gonna move the point where the trans xmember goes? And will it fit inder my ram air 2 hood.
My 87 TA has been at a standstill for months, but I am still going forward with it. My new house is being built right now, and I didn't want to move yet another car in pieces when its finished. I'm definitely going to use the AJE kmember, tubular a-arms, and coilovers...I just installed the same items on Redraif's car (had to mod the mounts slightly to make it work with her 3.4), and was really impressed with the fit. I'm doing a complete show quality rebuild of my 87, so its not going to happen overnight, but the first thing I am going to do is mock up the engine and trans and start building headers.
__________________ 1981 Corvette LSX/T56 Project
1987 Trans Am
1985 Trans Am
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1 - Sold 8/12/09
got some ?'s gonand o this next year or maybe late this year, i have a 400 poncho and a pontiac turbo 400 , im gonna buy the indian adventures mounts or chief many horses , whatever it is , and then buy the spohn tq arm setup , will it work or will i have to move the spohn stuff back too . Like is the mounting of the pontiac gonna move the point where the trans xmember goes? And will it fit inder my ram air 2 hood.
my engine and tranny fit fine when i had the stock kmember and spohn trans t/a and crossmemeber. but i changed to a tubular kmember becuase i was having header fitment issues.
and its gonna be close with your hood depending on what intake you run.
For you guys worried about hood clearance, look into the Tomahawk intake (available from Butler, KRE, and others). It is supposedly capable of supporting heads up to 300cfm, and is designed to fit under the hoods of the 2nd gen shaker cars, so it should work great for some stock hoods (Formula style) or any of the aftermarket ones.
__________________ 1981 Corvette LSX/T56 Project
1987 Trans Am
1985 Trans Am
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1 - Sold 8/12/09
ok another ?, has anyone done a 400 or 455 with a 4 speed, i got the 4 speed from a ponti and i have all the stuff to convert to a 4 speed from an 82 . Anyone done it ?Also what manifolds will work , i want some repops , from like classic , i think they have ra3 from a ta , will they fit?
ok another ?, has anyone done a 400 or 455 with a 4 speed, i got the 4 speed from a ponti and i have all the stuff to convert to a 4 speed from an 82 . Anyone done it ?Also what manifolds will work , i want some repops , from like classic , i think they have ra3 from a ta , will they fit?
i have ra3's from a gto that dump in the stock location as the 350 before it. they are tight... but do not hit anything.
ok...I've been reading this thread while I've been in the process of doing my swap. Lots of good info, thanx daturbosix and kross . My car is currently assembled and moves around under it's own power (loudly). Here's where I'm at and where I want to go: I used a '68 360 horse 400 out of my much maligned gto, complete w/th400, correct q-jet and (WOO-HOO) points distrib! I had bluprinted, balanced, and built this motor 14 years ago after I floated all the valves (in the gto) at some astronomical speed I had no buisiness achieving in that car. Long story short, motor got built-car didn't...meanwhile my t/a got built...at least the body, ten years ago when parts for these cars were cheap and plentiful. So I put good motor in good car. I used the IA mounts...they are nice pieces, and I used the stock gto 4bbl (cast iron) intake, and q jet. Hood clearance was a virtual non issue w/this setup. My car had the functional cowl scoop w/the cool little airbox and the air cleaner w/a hole in it to make throaty sound when car go fast. I took that air cleaner and hacked of the snorkel and the top plate w the hole in it for the air box. Fits under the hood and looks cool. Throttle cable fit nicely by hacking a piece off the t/a's orig throttle bracket and drilling a hole to bolt to gto bracket...I step on skinny pedal and car goes vroom...me happy . I went a little nuts on the cam...just on the edge of what's streetable...I figured w/U folks jamming 455s in your f-cars out there I gota do something to get noticed. I freshened the th400 w/blues and a separator plate which I drilled to max shift volume. Had planned to run a transbrake, but I'm going to see how it all plays out first. I threw on a 3200 rpm/stall converter before bolting it in. Currently don't have a fan...belt driven fan DOES hit hood, so I gota rig up an electric after I decide what to do about my radiator...I need somthing beter than the stock one for this motor, so I never run it for much longer than 10 min or so. Speaking of fans...I F###ed up, and I'll tell U how so U don't...I thought a mechanical fan would save me $ and be more street reliable...I don't want to cook this motor, I have $$$ invested in it. I found out that 68 and up firebird w/400 used a clutch fan and to see if it would work I got a fan clutch. I bolted my orig fan from the t/a on the clutch and put it on the motor. I trimmed the orig shroud as needed to get the fan to clear, and everything fit perfect. I ran the motor in the shop and all was good, burped cooling sys, temp was stable...I was real happy. My driveshaft wasn't in yet so I shut it off and closed the hood and pushed it outside. Day or 2 later driveshaft comes in...I install it, but I am still waiting for my trans crossmember/tq/arm from spohn (nice piece btw). I take my old trans crossmember and a block of wood and jam it in to hold the trans up...car goes outside. finally get my stuff from spohn and install it...very nice...if all spohn's chassis parts are like this I am a customer for life. fire up car and make lots of noise (WOO-HOO). close hood and (luck would have it) motor stalled. Open hood to see wtf...restart motor ok, but no fan. Shut off and inspect...all blades bent to hell and gone and hood frame dinged a little...feel stupid, then get over it. Gota go electric...not the end of the world. I bought the big dollar IA headers right away and My opinion is that they suck. At least in terms of fitment. I was ready to send mine back, but after reading what daturbosix and kross posted i figured I beter make em work somehow. I installed mine while the trans was out of the car, then later removed and installed them a couple times. I first called IA w/a couple questions and they told me that I would have to test fit and remove them a couple times, and massage areas for clearance as needed...they werent kidding. First off, I haven't head anyone talk of what starter to use. I had no starter bolted in on my first test fit and there were k member clearance issues which appeared easy to resolve...in some spots I heated and hammered the k member for clearance...in some spots I notched it out completely...but I got a fit, albeit a tight one. On the left side I heated and hammered a flat spot on the #3 tube where it rubbed bad on the vertical leg. I removed the upper rear motor mount to k-member bolt where the #1 tube was wedged hard. I can probably find a bolt w/a smaller head later for this. The brake line to the RF had to be completely relocated...I ran a new one from the proportioning valve, accross the front of the k-member instead of the saddle. On the R side I cut a channel for the #4 tube and like daturbosix I had to shave meat off my oil filter adaptor. I bought a remote oil filter kit and was again disapointed. the adaptor was a spin-on unit which didn't solve much. I paid $59 for the kit, but I paid $175 for -10 an fittings and braided steel hose sections to make it right...here's the details: First off...to save yourself time look at your oil filter adaptor, it bolts to the block w/3 3/8 nc bolts in a triangle and then turns downward, either at a 90 or at an even steeper angle, like mine. along this downward leg there is a strengthening rib, no doubt to sturdy the adaptor against the strongest of oil change gorrilas out there. Shave it off...U should have a nice little pocket where it used to be...this is where the #6 tube will live. Now u can install your headers...or your oil filter...or both, but once the oil filter is on, it's never coming off...I plan to take mine to a quick lube and complain the whole time while it's really hot, but anyway. IA told me there are smaller filters I can run...smaller. The trans-dapt remote oil filter kit was a dissapointment but I made it work by throwing money at it. First off the hoses are regular rubber hoses w/straight fittings, and the adaptor is a spin-on...pure cheese. A couple test fits sent me into fits...the only path for the hoses which didn't kink them, and kept them safely away from the headers was between the oil pan and the k-member, but the hoses weren't long enough to reach the frame rail where the remote filter could be mounted...and it would have to be upside down resulting in no oil pressure for a period on each cold start. I went w/race parts for this, 2x3' sections of -10 braided steel hose and 4x-10 45deg an fittings, and I mounted my filter horizontally on the rh battery tray, since I moved my battery to the LH side. The starter to use was THE biggest problem of the whole build. The "directions" from IA on the headers said the starter removal wasn't required, my starter wasn't on when I test fitted, and wouldn't fit after...no way no how. I tried every starter in my stock and nothing worked. My local starter rebuilder was helpful and sent me a bunch to try...no deal. finally I had to take my orig starter from this motor up to them and tell them what i needed to make it fit. after matching up a few units we found one that was close...but would it turn this motor? Only one way to find out. Yes I know IA makes a mini starter for this application, they have enough of my money right now. after a test crank the starter appeared to work, not well, but worked. It really struggles to crank this motor, but it does it, and it starts and runs. the high torque version of this unit has a longer motor case, which was the whole problem I was wrestling with in the first place. So all told I have no exhaust sys, and a car I can't run for more than 10-15min at idle, but I CAN and HAVE pulled out on the lot and done one HELL of a burnout before parking it. I probably could trailer it down to the dragstrip and get a couple passes in to see where I'm at, but, all comedy aside the parking lot burnouts tell me I have the power dialed good enough for now, till I get some tires on it!
holy post batman!
glad to hear someones got the swap complete. im still waiting to do all my wiring and get a drive shaft. but now i sliced up my hand really good, and now thats a set-back.
what dimension driveshaft did you use?
did it clear the spohn peices?
driveshaft loop?
my engine:
'66 389 block .030 over
forged pistons
stock crank
016 heads
4 angle seats
bigger springs
560ish cam
stock stamped rockers
hydro lifters
victor jr. intake
proform 750cfm race carb
all msd ignition
BOP engineering alt. mount
stock f-body single electric fan
IA engine mounts
IA headers(moddifed by me!)
AJE tubular K-Member
my trans:
short tail BOP 400
reverse manual valve body
truck 1st gear
larger sprag
billit planetary set
3200 stall
and a brake
The drive shaft on mine was a fiasco...only because my local driveshaft builder loves making my life miserable, or my tape measure is made in mexico, one of the two. I came up w/48" exactly from the VERY end of the output shaft to the BASE of the companion flange cup. I told the guy I was drag racing it and he had a couple ideas...thicker tube wall, solid cross U joint etc. So I said build it and send it out. When I got it it was too long to be installed, and believe me I tried...I was damn tired of pushing this car around. I called him up and told him what I had and got the usual story about how he measured it 3 times and it's got to be right and so forth, and I told him maybe I am the one who can't measure, but it doesn't matter, it's gotta be shorter. So, I sent it back, they shortened it up and all was well. Clearing the spohn xmember was a non-issue. I have to send alot of the driveshafts I buy from them back, even when they are built to stock dimensions, and because they are the only surviving driveshaft builder in my area, I don't know if that's par for the course or if they are sloppy, but usually once I hammer out the details w/them their shafts are rock solid...I haven't had one come back...dunno if this advice helps other than be prepared for fitting and re-fitting as needed. You have the IA headers and the spohn xmember on your car like me? How do U suppose we will put exhaust systems on? Or will we ever get that far? I put my reducers on tonight to eyeball where I am at and it's damn tight. My L collector flange hits the ground anytime I go over a significant dip, like the drain trough in my shop. I have bent it several times even though I have been very careful to back up slow, and have used blocks of wood to get in and out. Taller tires will help, and that's on the agenda, but my R collector is up tight w/the trans and will require a pretty steep downward bend to clear the beefy spohn xmember, and will have to wrap around the t-box somewhere...I'm tempted to modify my spohn x-member, but it is such a well made piece, I would prefer not to. And also what did U do about a starter for that 389? Or have U gotten that far? I might be able to cross refrence the one I used...but as I said mine is hard to start/cranks slow at times. IA claims their mini starter is an in house unit that will crank up to an 18:1 motor, and will make my whites whiter,and my teeth brighter...U know the pitch?
Question: The car I have had its 305 swapped out for the 350. Is it necessary for the 305 computer to be replaced in order for the engine to run correctly, or can I put a 350 PROM in there to suffice?
I just bought an 88 Firebird Formula. The engine needs to be rebuilt it smokes when you first start it. I know that it is a sign of the valve guide seals leaking. I read somewhere that a 305 walls are too thin to have bored out. If this is true would it be better to just buy another 305 or is there something else I can do?
Im seriously considering a 400/455 swap in the future. Ive read this thread and it seems the swap is simple enough. I didnt see anything mentioned about the accessories though. Power steering, alt, starter, and possibly A/C(currently removed, considering reinstall). Do the stock ones fit? Do I need the pontiac accessories?
Edit: BTW, to the two posters above me. This thread is about swapping a Pontiac engine into a 3rd gen.
What do any of you plan on doing with your 350/305's you are pulling out of your cars. I need or would like to get a 89 block and heads for my t/a but am also very interested in doing the 455 swap. My uncle recently gave me a block for my catalina but really dont want the engine sitting around for ever so woudl like to install. I already read most posts so not gonna bother asking how do i do this or that, but would like some pms or emails on specifics if any one gets something typed up or some pics cause my dial up sucks and i see almost none of the pics. thanks to anyone who can help out
My 445 swap is up and running. I am however having an issue with cooling. With the 4" cowl hood all the stock accesories bolt up fine. I dont have a/c installed. If you need it cooler, roll down the window and go faster.
I would like to know if I "rebuild"a 350(just using a rebuild kit from an auto parts store) can I bolt the intake and exhaust and alternator and A/c components right back up just like on my 305? Will my ECM and everything electronic still work right?Will the Transmission bolt up? Anything major I need to know before doing this?
but whatever, i feel its worth it. 
, Second Place Camaro Modified Thirdgenfest '08
. My car is currently assembled and moves around under it's own power (loudly). Here's where I'm at and where I want to go: I used a '68 360 horse 400 out of my much maligned gto, complete w/th400, correct q-jet and (WOO-HOO) points distrib! I had bluprinted, balanced, and built this motor 14 years ago after I floated all the valves (in the gto) at some astronomical speed I had no buisiness achieving in that car. Long story short, motor got built-car didn't...meanwhile my t/a got built...at least the body, ten years ago when parts for these cars were cheap and plentiful. So I put good motor in good car. I used the IA mounts...they are nice pieces, and I used the stock gto 4bbl (cast iron) intake, and q jet. Hood clearance was a virtual non issue w/this setup. My car had the functional cowl scoop w/the cool little airbox and the air cleaner w/a hole in it to make throaty sound when car go fast. I took that air cleaner and hacked of the snorkel and the top plate w the hole in it for the air box. Fits under the hood and looks cool. Throttle cable fit nicely by hacking a piece off the t/a's orig throttle bracket and drilling a hole to bolt to gto bracket...I step on skinny pedal and car goes vroom...me happy
. I went a little nuts on the cam...just on the edge of what's streetable...I figured w/U folks jamming 455s in your f-cars out there I gota do something to get noticed. I freshened the th400 w/blues and a separator plate which I drilled to max shift volume. Had planned to run a transbrake, but I'm going to see how it all plays out first. I threw on a 3200 rpm/stall converter before bolting it in. Currently don't have a fan...belt driven fan DOES hit hood, so I gota rig up an electric after I decide what to do about my radiator...I need somthing beter than the stock one for this motor, so I never run it for much longer than 10 min or so. Speaking of fans...I F###ed up, and I'll tell U how so U don't...I thought a mechanical fan would save me $ and be more street reliable...I don't want to cook this motor, I have $$$ invested in it. I found out that 68 and up firebird w/400 used a clutch fan and to see if it would work I got a fan clutch. I bolted my orig fan from the t/a on the clutch and put it on the motor. I trimmed the orig shroud as needed to get the fan to clear, and everything fit perfect. I ran the motor in the shop and all was good, burped cooling sys, temp was stable...I was real happy. My driveshaft wasn't in yet so I shut it off and closed the hood and pushed it outside. Day or 2 later driveshaft comes in...I install it, but I am still waiting for my trans crossmember/tq/arm from spohn (nice piece btw). I take my old trans crossmember and a block of wood and jam it in to hold the trans up...car goes outside. finally get my stuff from spohn and install it...very nice...if all spohn's chassis parts are like this I am a customer for life. fire up car and make lots of noise (WOO-HOO). close hood and (luck would have it) motor stalled. Open hood to see wtf...restart motor ok, but no fan. Shut off and inspect...all blades bent to hell and gone and hood frame dinged a little...feel stupid, then get over it. Gota go electric...not the end of the world. I bought the big dollar IA headers right away and My opinion is that they suck. At least in terms of fitment. I was ready to send mine back, but after reading what daturbosix and kross posted i figured I beter make em work somehow. I installed mine while the trans was out of the car, then later removed and installed them a couple times. I first called IA w/a couple questions and they told me that I would have to test fit and remove them a couple times, and massage areas for clearance as needed...they werent kidding. First off, I haven't head anyone talk of what starter to use. I had no starter bolted in on my first test fit and there were k member clearance issues which appeared easy to resolve...in some spots I heated and hammered the k member for clearance...in some spots I notched it out completely...but I got a fit, albeit a tight one. On the left side I heated and hammered a flat spot on the #3 tube where it rubbed bad on the vertical leg. I removed the upper rear motor mount to k-member bolt where the #1 tube was wedged hard. I can probably find a bolt w/a smaller head later for this. The brake line to the RF had to be completely relocated...I ran a new one from the proportioning valve, accross the front of the k-member instead of the saddle. On the R side I cut a channel for the #4 tube and like daturbosix I had to shave meat off my oil filter adaptor. I bought a remote oil filter kit and was again disapointed. the adaptor was a spin-on unit which didn't solve much. I paid $59 for the kit, but I paid $175 for -10 an fittings and braided steel hose sections to make it right...here's the details: First off...to save yourself time look at your oil filter adaptor, it bolts to the block w/3 3/8 nc bolts in a triangle and then turns downward, either at a 90 or at an even steeper angle, like mine. along this downward leg there is a strengthening rib, no doubt to sturdy the adaptor against the strongest of oil change gorrilas out there. Shave it off...U should have a nice little pocket where it used to be...this is where the #6 tube will live. Now u can install your headers...or your oil filter...or both, but once the oil filter is on, it's never coming off...I plan to take mine to a quick lube and complain the whole time while it's really hot, but anyway. IA told me there are smaller filters I can run...smaller. The trans-dapt remote oil filter kit was a dissapointment but I made it work by throwing money at it. First off the hoses are regular rubber hoses w/straight fittings, and the adaptor is a spin-on...pure cheese. A couple test fits sent me into fits...the only path for the hoses which didn't kink them, and kept them safely away from the headers was between the oil pan and the k-member, but the hoses weren't long enough to reach the frame rail where the remote filter could be mounted...and it would have to be upside down resulting in no oil pressure for a period on each cold start. I went w/race parts for this, 2x3' sections of -10 braided steel hose and 4x-10 45deg an fittings, and I mounted my filter horizontally on the rh battery tray, since I moved my battery to the LH side. The starter to use was THE biggest problem of the whole build. The "directions" from IA on the headers said the starter removal wasn't required, my starter wasn't on when I test fitted, and wouldn't fit after...no way no how. I tried every starter in my stock and nothing worked. My local starter rebuilder was helpful and sent me a bunch to try...no deal. finally I had to take my orig starter from this motor up to them and tell them what i needed to make it fit. after matching up a few units we found one that was close...but would it turn this motor? Only one way to find out. Yes I know IA makes a mini starter for this application, they have enough of my money right now. after a test crank the starter appeared to work, not well, but worked. It really struggles to crank this motor, but it does it, and it starts and runs. the high torque version of this unit has a longer motor case, which was the whole problem I was wrestling with in the first place. So all told I have no exhaust sys, and a car I can't run for more than 10-15min at idle, but I CAN and HAVE pulled out on the lot and done one HELL of a burnout before parking it. I probably could trailer it down to the dragstrip and get a couple passes in to see where I'm at, but, all comedy aside the parking lot burnouts tell me I have the power dialed good enough for now, till I get some tires on it! 
