Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Ill read that definetely, thank you. What do you think about the Jegs Canfields I was looking at, you think they are nice for my goals? How about the Fast Burns?

What kind of power/times are you putting down with your 400?

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Who cares if it's "rare" or "special". I was just suggesting that an aftermarket block (ex: Dart Little M) would be the superior choice to ANY factory 400 block. That's all

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

They made 428hp and 525 ftlbs on the dyno with the vortecs. My motor lacks the 750 cfm double pumper (I run a 700 cfm DP), and roller rockers (I have stock rockers. I have crane golds in the garage, just haven't gotten them on yet).

I purchased a Crosswind intake, which is the knock off of the Edelbrock airgap.

My carb is probably not tuned for **** either. I'm learning as I go. But I have put down a 12.8 at the strip. I like to think the motor will go mid 12s. I have prokit springs and stock 100k mile suspension so I'm getting no help in the suspension department. I also can't drive for crap (5 speed). I also ran that with drag radials.


Personally, I really really like the motor. It's got a ton of torque and is really fun to drive on the street.

Here's my slip (It'd be nice to get the 60' time in the 1.7x range):

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

Good numbers. I want to build mine this spring. As I said in a earlier post, I have a 509 casting that I want to do a budget build on. I just got offered a set of 062 Vortecs with ZZ4 springs (not familar with them though) for $300. If the guy still has them next month, I am going to grab them up and hopefully get this build going. My 700r4 is toast so I am going to be putting longtail th350 in . I am surprised your T5 is holding at all. lol

Nice to see some real world numbers with this combo since I read about it in CHP. Did you use the same cam they did?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

the 294 cam in a 400 wont go to 7000 rpm. It will be done well before 6500. Its a nice cam for his goals if he has decent compression IE between 10 and 11 to 1 with aluminum heads and those heads flow well. 215's will be a good choice.

RPM intake will be fine enough for a street car. You can get away with a single plane since the 400 has cubes for torque and wont be as lazy down low like a 355 or even 383 with a single plane.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

What is your advice on my bottom end Justin, will it last the season until I can go with all forged internals when I have the funds or should I do it now? If now, what all should I do? You know the budget Im on, I just dont want to get sloppy and slap it together just to get it done either.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well i'm not sure whats all in it. you say its been rebuilt? chances are it has basic cast replacement internals, which can be fine for 400whp or so but depends on what you have. Alot of basic rebuilds use stock crank/rods/new replacement pistons. Rods and crank may be ok to reuse but new stuff isnt all that much these days for cast stuff so it be nice to upgrade.

Have you taken a main cap off to check the crank bearings? Maybe even a rod cap to check rod bearings?

I'd do that and if they show any wear, then i'd be concerned. If you only want it to last a season then do a nice build on it, then you can chance it if everything looks ok. Then again its nice to get it done while you can now so you dont have to redo everything later like i'm doing this winter. What i wanted to build i didnt do and now its biting me in the ***/wallet

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Yep I used the same cam. The heads were stock. I lapped the valves, and installed "performance" Z28 springs, which are OEM springs off the old LT-1 motor from the 70's. I got my vortecs for 200 bucks, but I got lucky because I traded the guy for a set of ported 601 heads. He normally sells them for 300 per pair. You could also find a set of USED Dart Iron Eagles or World Sportsman IIs for cheap. Those would work well too.

My T5 has a fair amount of abuse on it, but keep in mind I drive this car maybe once a week. Only when it's sunny out in the summer

Again, I'm really happy with the build I went with. I plan on going to a LSx series motor when I finish college, so this was a good, cheap, temporary upgrade from the dog 305.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Yeah my dad thinks it was bought as a short block and was built to factory specs for the 79' Chevy I bought it out of. Ill start looking into rods and cranks, but Ill probably use mine for now. I havent taken anything out like I said I was going to, Ive worked on the engine bay in between Christmas parties and such. I plan on looking at it in the next day or two tho. Ill take pics, just to get your opinion on the wear too. Should I reuse my pistons for the season, and if I do whats my compression going to be? They more than likely are stock replacements (I know 400s had low compression) and the engine is a virgin bore. Itd be nice to do it all now, but with the deadline Ive set myself, and the money Im able to earn while Im still in school Im not sure I could. I hear you on the wallet lol..

Im going from a dog of a 2.8l V6 to a 400 lol..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats what worries me... the pistons may be ultra low compression and with aluminum thats not a good thing at all. depends tho since most old motors had big chambers on the heads, so a 60-65 cc head may give you enough compression.

You can try to find out pricing on a good flat top piston for that motor and what it cost to have it bored over abit to clean the bore, if it does need it, possibly a hone job may be all it needs but it will depend. I'd bore it anyway just to be sure. The rods/crank may be reused if they are decent shape and you may beable to get away with that motor for a season as long as it isnt abused too much. If it blows it blows, nothing you can do. Save up for the motor you really want, but be prepared that the block may get damaged if it throws a rod. Spin a bearing and its fine, just dont throw a rod out the side.

If that happens stick to a 383, you can have my old L98 block as a starting point. Bore/clearance it, put 4bolt splayed conversion caps on it and its good to 600whp+

Hell who knows, by then i may have a new SHP dart block or something, Buy my 383

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Ill look into pistons, should I look for aluminum or what? I know it doesnt need a bore, just a hone that Im sure I can do myself. The whole reason Id like to touch as little of the bottom end as possible is not only money reasons, but I plan on boring it and perhaps throwing a stroker crank in there next winter.

Im just afraid Im going to beat on it like I know I will. Hopefully my rods hold up, Im going to really look them over because I really dont want to do all this and for me to damage the F'n block. As far as spinning a bearing Ive spun my fair share of them. 3.1's love to spin them..

If I do damage it Ill take your L98 and build that. I just hope it doesnt come down to that.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

you might be surprised about it not needing to be bored. I thought mine was good too until I measured the cylinder walls. There was definitely ovality there and since you want to try and rev this motor that is something you definitely don't want. not trying to discourage you but it is definitely worth checking. my 817 casting only had 67k miles on it from a 79 c10 and it also needed align bored but I think it was just a sloppy casting. if you want track times I would consider destroking it to a 377 c.i. if you want more torque go say 420 c.i.

these heads are a good deal good castings not sloppy compared to quite a bit of them any more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Patri...Q5fAccessories

hope this helps some.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

a 4.125" block has siamesed bores, they will never be perfectly round at operating temperatures and you can't go much more than .030" over on these blocks either. But you should do your absolute best to get the cylinders as round and straight as possible. Honing with torque plates is a MUST! Maximum ring seal should be your ultimate goal.

You can talk about all the bore/stroke combinations you want but for a street motor I would leave it all stock. For short track you could go with the longer stroke for more torque and for long track the shorter stroke will give you more top end, this is assuming same cubic inches. I wouldn't sacrifice cubic inches to destroke a motor you will see no benefit in doing this (unless the rules limit you to c.i.) IN either case I would use the LONGEST rod possible, this will always result in more power and torque.

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

I have a 2001 Z28 that's my daily driver until I get my truck fixed. Lsx is definitely the way to go. The 01 runs 12.99 with a just 2 bolt ons and programming.

I just want the Iroc to be just as fast or faster on a budget. I am a first year homeowner so money is a object. It's definitely cheaper to fix the Iroc than the 01 is when it comes to stuff breaking.

hereinmissoula

ok..... i have been reading all the posts and there have been some good ones...

first of all i have a team G intake that i will trade for your rpm... i am building a 350 for a 68 4x4 and am gonna buy one anyway... if you wanna trade let me know...
it will not be lazy on this engine at all and with that cam i would bet would out perform from 3500 or so and up, almost no trade off... throttle response is rad on 406's with single planes....

now i think you should get a good flowing set of heads and short of afr's, for alittle less money those heads i posted up are good heads... i have seen them go mid 10's on a 383 in a vega race car... n/a..

fastburns would be ok but will suit your single pattern cam well, sportsman or any of the other "budget" iron heads should be out as well...

your 400 very likely had 76c heads on it.. even at 8.5:1 comp you should be up to 9.5:1 or so with a 64cc head... you need atleast this to make the cam work... and i bet 65-6700 or so will be a good peak number

hereinmissoula

i meant to say that the fastburns would be ok but will NOT suit your single pattern cam well.... i also think this is a good cam and would bet great numbers with a cylinder heads that will take advantage of it... good that you have 1.6's in my opinion as well..

i bet your numbers might be a little better than you think... IF this shortblock is ok......

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

Copied and pasted from over at ls1tech. This guy had good luck with ported Vortecs.

10 to 1 dish piston 406
stock crank and beemed stock rods
the ported vortecs
vic jr intake
tci street fighter converter
3.73 gears
850dp
isky z35 solid cam(very street car friendly and fun)pulls from 2500 to 7000,made peak tq at like 3700 rpm and peak hp at 6100rpm.I garuntee that wouldnt happen with a stock un touched vortec head,not to mention stock they will only handle about .480 lift anything more and the retainer hits the guides.Car was 3700lbs and went 11.60 at 116 all day long and 10.56 at 129 on a 150 shot.

If you have any questions about vortec heads or what cam to run with them or where you need them sent to achieve the same flow as mine pm me and i will share all the details you need.Best bang for the buck street head PERIOD.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/small-bloc...tec-heads.html
Thread link:

hereinmissoula

vortec heads are by far the best bang for buck... and have excellent combustion chambers... same as fast burns i believe..

they however do not compete against the other heads that have been brought up... your prob stuck around 250-260 intake and the exhaust port is something to be desired...

a modern head with good exhaust port will perform excellent with your single pattern head...

either way you will have a great running 400!!!!!!

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

I'll be using them mainly because I can get them next to nothing and I don't exactly have a budget to be wasting on this car. lol

If I had a choice it would be Brodix. I am biased on them since I have seen excellent results on 4 different 400s running them.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I'm assuming you have to put up with the same stupid emissions "test" that I do in Johnstown, PA. I was just wondering how are you planning on passing the visual with a carb? I'm swapping a 350 into my 92 Camaro this winter and was told it wont pass with a carb unless it meets certain criteria. I'm also curious as to what "stricter state inspection laws" are coming as I haven't heard anything about that.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Im emissions exempt because I run Classic plates, but I still need to pass a visual test. What criteria does it have to meet? Im not sure on this because my dad is ASE certified so mine will get stickered no matter what, but he still wants it as legit as possible hence why Im keeping my blower motor. As to the strictor laws, my dad says if you have anything thats "illegal" it will not pass, even the smaller shops that will pass anyone just to make $, because the state is cracking down on the laws that are already in the books that they havent been keeping up on. They also are trying to get more strict laws passed on all kinds of stuff, Im not exactly sure on what off the top of my head but if you do a search you might be able to find something.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I tried searching on the state website, but it's down. Go figure. I didn't realize you were running classic plates. That would make it emissions exempt from everything including the visual as I understand it. BUT you are limited to something stupid like 2k miles/year and/or only able to drive it 2 days/week I believe. Not that they would know how many days/week you drive it unless you would get 3 tickets in a week maybe.

Anyhow, the criteria I mentioned was that you would be exempt from emissions testing if you drive the car less than 5k/year and have had the car titled and inspected in your name for at least a year.

Here's the link to PA's inspection laws that I was using.

PA Code:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/067toc.html

Vehicle Inspections:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/inspections/safety.shtml

What REALLY sucks for me is that I live literally 200 yards from the county line, and in that county they don't have to worry about the emissions inspection at all.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I have no emissions stuff left at all and my blower motor doesnt work. I have regular plates but i keep it under 5K miles a year..actually more like 3500 miles a year

They told me under that condition i'm exempt from everything emissions related including visual. I've passed just fine

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I believe even tho Im emissions exempt I still need to pass a visual test. As for the drivability its supposed to be used for car shows, events, etc AND you can use it 1 day a week for regular transportation. Now I drive mine almost everyday because its my DD, but the only way theyd know is if the same cop pulled you over in the same week. Because think about it If I get pulled over in a county and get a ticket, and then a few days later I get a ticket in the adjacent county or maybe even the same county the first ticket wont be in the computer yet I belive. Or you could always say you were heading to or coming from a car event.

I still dont think theyd make a big fuss about it even if they knew. Most cops dont even know the law when it comes to Classic plates. Ive talked to a few that thought they were just for older cars to be emmisions exempt.
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I believe different counties have different laws Justin. Thats probably why you get away with it you ***. Lol

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I plan on getting the Canfield heads from Jegs for $650 a piece.

Yes my Heads were the 76cc Heads, so I can get away with my stock pistons your saying?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Orr89RocZ - It's nice to have it confirmed about the 5k/year thing. I'd like to know how you pass without a blower motor though. It's not part of the emissions system, and it specifically says in the inspection procedures that the defroster has to work even if the A/C and heater don't. Of course, that assumes the guy doing the inspection actually checks it. The guy I have taken my other cars to doesn't usually check that minor stuff. He looks at the major stuff, ie. brakes/steering/emissions/lights.

Stippy - I realize the "1 day/week" thing is not likely to get you in trouble, but I've been bitten in the *** by lesser technicalities so I tend to pay attention to everything. Also, your right, different counties have different emissions laws. The more "rural" counties(like Somerset County for example) have no visual and usually not even the "gas cap" test. The visual is in the more "metropolitan" counties, although how Johnstown(Cambria County) qualifies for that I will never know.

If the original heads were 76cc and the Canfields are 64cc and with dished pistons, you should be fine. You can get a good idea of your compression ratio using one of the online calculators like this one: http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

If your close to what you want, you can always try a thicker/thinner head gasket to change it slightly.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

My car used to be AC but i deleted that with the AC delete box but kept the same blower motor. I rewired it and now it dont work at all so i think something is wrong with the wiring

however i still passed and i'm not sure why And my car is from florida and it did not have defroster on the hatch glass from the factory.

Another option is a collector car plate. Classic plates the car has to appear BONE STOCK as the factory had it for that year. Not even the wheels can be changed. Nor the motor they say. Your suppose to take pictures of the car and submit them for the classic registration.

If you mod the car then you need to get collector plates. Same restrictions as classic plates, but you can do whatever you want to the car.


ANd yes, in the summer time there is ALWAYS a car show somewhere. Just say you were there and they cant do anything about it

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Yup those are the restriction for classic plates. You have to submit 4 photos. 1 of each side of the vehicle, the windows have to be up, and I even had to have the center caps on the car. (Only had 2 so I had to switch them to the other side lol)

Now since Im doing all this work to the car, technically it cant have Classic plates. I need to transfer the title out of my dads name and into mine since Im 18 and under my own policy now. I talked to AAA when I transfered my truck yesterday and said Id have to pay the normal fee + $75 to resubmit the car because they said they have to make sure it has kept its appearance. I think its bullshit when I just put that plate on at the beginning of the summer so it hasnt even been close to a year and they want more money from me. My dad offered to pay it since he feels bad, so if I do this Im submitting the same photos I did last time screw them. Ill have to look into collector classic plates on how much they will charge me to transfer the car into my name and do one of those plates that way Im a little more legal when it comes to my engine and whatnot.

hotrod16105

Dont know how i missed this thread after all this time. Geuss i was slacking being on so many sites.

Anyway, I was reading the recent posts about the classic plates and saw they wanted to charge you the 75 to transfer it to you. I copied this directly from the pa dmv site:

http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotform...ets/fs-ant.pdf




are not subject to emissions inspection.

That is how it was explained to me by people who have the plates, and what i read on the dmv site confirms that. Things could change in the future, but thats where is stands at the moment.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Figured youd find your way to this thread lol.

Sweet, Im glad you found that. Im going to print that out so I can show AAA. My dad will definetely not care its only gonna be about $30 instead of about $100 like they quoted. He might even try an get me to pay now lol.

As for the emmisions Ill show my dad. He is ASE certified and swore I still needed to pass visually, but with this I can show him I dont. Only reason being I wanted to delete my windshield washer fluid bottle but keep my wiper and wiper motor, and he said to keep the bottle for visual reasons. Im still gonna keep the blower motor to keep my defrosters, in case I decide to move/drive the car one day when itll be needed.

Thanks tho, with that info I can save $70.

hotrod16105

Yeah, i get around almost everywhere is seems. Not sure how i missed this one. It is possible they may want more pics, but they shouldn't charge the extra $75. One of the guys i work with had his name added to his dads car in case something happened and they requested more pics even though they had sent them in previously. When he gets back from vacation next week i'll ask what they charged him.
As far as inspection, the blower motor and washer bottle would be required for the safety inspection. Ask some local shops what they look at when inspecting a classic car.

hereinmissoula

glad to see you go with a good head... you'll be so happy...

be sure not to cut corners now and get a pushrod length checker and MEASURE... don't take short cuts... your valvetrain will live a long life and your motor will rev very happy.. !!!! :-)


let me know if you want the team g intake...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if you need help setting up valve springs/pushrods i have a length checker and valve spring micrometer to dial in those install heights if you need to add more spring pressure or even take some out

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well if they want more pics Ill dig some up that I took a few months ago. I sold my original hood so Im screwed if I take new ones. If that stuff is needed for a safety check that must have been what my dad meant and I misunderstood. He does know his stuff lol. I plan to use a blower motor off of an 82-93 S10 that didnt have AC. The blower motor is located in the same place, and it should be a smaller size than maybe others. As for the washer bottle I think Im going to leave it out, but install it when I get my car inspected every year. Let me know what they charge your friend, Im curious about that. As for what local shops look for my vehicles will get inspected, but my dad would like them to be as close to passable as possible because its his name on the line being the inspector you know?

After searching around I havent found anyone NOT satisfied with the Canfield Heads, some say they are almost identical to AFR's but a little cheaper. I cant beat them for the price either.

Yeah when the time comes I might need to borrow you/the tools lol.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I might have found a TH400 for my build. Guy wants $200 for it, and its a rebuilt transmission. He says he bought it to put in his 75' Camaro, but sold the car to buy a DD and kept the tranny. Says he has the receipt for it showing he paid about $800. Im going to look at it/buy it Friday.

Now the tranny was rebuilt to handle 400 HP, and Ill be pushing a little more than that. I think Im just gonna throw it in the car and when it goes I get it rebuilt by my buddys Unlce for a reasonable amount. I figure doing it this way Im saving about $1100 from buying one from Summit for about $1300. If I had more money I might do it differently, but thats not the case lol. As for a manual valvebody if this tranny doesnt have one how hard/much is it to install one?

hereinmissoula

400 should be good deal... but i hate automatics..... have very little experience with them.... i have owned 5.0's in the past and i just go straight to tremec's.... i have broken so many t-5's... lol


a valve body and shift kit are not that hard though... i hate the little *****... some of the kits even come with videos to help!!! i did a 700r4 for a blazer that way...
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i would make sure you get a decent converter and make sure you get a good cooler for the tranny...

what you goin for.. about 3500 stall???? maybe more???

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'd keep 3500 or so stall speed. more street driving i'd even go 3200. Keep the tranny cool tho. you should get a trans cooler. They are pretty cheap.

IROC315

iTrader: (9)

Whomever rebuilt it probably said 400 hp just to throw a number in there. A stock th400 should easily hold up to that without any effort. If it's rebuilt properly, you'll probably have a trouble free trans for years to come.

85gulstrandTA

My 400 with a smaller cam, comp 292 w 244 at .050 and only 501 lift, small RMP heads that only have 170 cc intake mine would hit 7,000 easy. So with a solid 294 cam and 215cc intake on the heads a 400 will pass 7,000. does not mean I would do it. I would also not use the stock length 400 rods. 5.7 rods will be far easier on the block the higher the rpm go. you should use the smallest intake ports that can support the engine combination. I like 185 to 200 cc on the 400's this helps maintian the tq also which is what moves a heavy car like a 3rd gen. please remember I have 3 of these block and have seen many done in different cars. I seen a 400 with a 294s comp cam edelbrock RPM 170 cc intake runner heads with 11/1 comp. in a 67 camaro with a richmond 5 speed non over drive tranny would certainly hit 7,000. when the owner drove the cat he had no idea the car would wind that high....untill we showed him and he was grinning from ear to ear, probly still is.
I wish you where closer I could use your 882 heads on a truck I have.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Any motor will rev to 7 grand but doesnt mean its making power there. Not by any means! My car will hit the limiter at 6800 rpm in a heartbeat if your not careful but its peaked by 6250 and done by 6500. Going beyond that doesnt help anything at all.

That car wont make power by 7000

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Where are you located? Ill ship them, and give you a good deal on them. I have no use for them right now, and I need them out of my way.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I also have 882s off my 400 sitting in my garage. I'm in Wisconsin. Not to steal any sales. Just if you happen to be in Wisconsin or close it would work decent maybe.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Picked up the Rebuilt TH400 Tranny today that I found for $200. The guy said itll handle 400 HP, and that he had a shift kit put it. I thought it was a steal for the price. Im gonna clean it up, paint it, and run it til it goes then get it rebuilt. This is gonna save me alot of money.

hotrod16105

That should work out nicely i hope.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I hope so too lol. What kind of paint do I have to use if I want to paint it gloss black? Can I use engine paint or do I need to use something that can withstand more heat?

hotrod16105

I used some high temp primer and engine paint on mine. Just the duplicolor stuff. I spent alot of time cleaning it so the paint would stick. I had to pull the tranny after a year to change the front seal and it still looked good, just needed to be cleaned after the leak.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Sounds good. Ill pick up another can or two of the Gloss Black Duplicolor. Thats what I was using on my block.

85gulstrandTA

simple green. purple power work great as a degreaser and will etch gloss paint when left on a while. I found this out by etching an air cleaner housing I did not want to. after that I used it all the time as a paint prep on motor, engine bays,ect..on aluminum use an etching primer usually in a tall gray can. auto paint stors have it and the big box store too I think. A family member owned a body shop and told me about it. if you ecth prime then you can use pait that matches your car so he motor and body match. just ask the auto paint store to put some in a rattle can and tell them what you are doing with it. looks great and is hard shine that(they must add harder to the paint for high heat) looks like a pro shop did it. because that how they do it..lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you wont really see the trans so why paint it?

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Cuz I like to make things pretty?

Lol I just figure for about $20 I can paint it to match the block, and you might not be able to see it but Ill have to look at it when Im down there fixing **** lol.