88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

IAC's are the same internally. Just buy the wiring pigtail off eBay.

gbayfisher

[quote=88gunmetalgta;5153410]IAC's are the same internally. Just buy the wiring pigtail off eBay.[/quote

Thats good to hear, thought I read somewhere about the number of steps being different.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Could you talk me through how to install the EBL on a MAF car? Did you use any guide or tutorial? I plan on swapping over to the EBL with my tax return, and I need to figure out what all I need to buy.

gbayfisher

Yes, sure.

From Dynamic I ordered:
-Ebl p4 ecm (ready to go unit)
-an extra ecm harness connector ( bob will send you the correct one)
he as all the info to convert on his web site, including the pin to pin changes. You will be re-pinning every single wire.
I labeled every wire in its current (factory) position, than removed them all. Following the new pin guide, it was as simple as looking for the label and pinning into new position. New real surprises here, except there was a couple changes to wire position versus what the guide mentioned. I can let you know where mine ended up.

You can retain your current knock sensor set up.

The only other thing i needed was a simple vac line to connect to your new MAP sensor, and a MAP sensor harness plug end to splice into your current maf wires ( you only use 3 of the 5 maf wires). I ordered a 2bar unit because i may boost soon. IF you don't have immediate plans to boost, go with the one bar.
Just need to set the parameters on the tune file to compensate for 2bar setup if you do so. Ebl site has a big tutorial on making a first start tune, and a lot of other great tuning info. Bob from Dynamic sure did a great job with the whole setup, he is one smart cookie, and always there to support his product.
Cant wait to start tuning, I really think the EBL and WUD display will make the whole tuning process go a lot easier. The WUD has SO much useful information.

I cranked mine very briefly and it ignited very quickly. Everything seems to be in order, and the whole process, with the help of BobR went rather pain and hassle free.You wont have any issues.

I haven't gone any further since i just pulled the upper intake off! She's opened up,and i started the porting of the runners and plenum work. pulling the intake base one day this week. As of now, going to give the FISRT a better try, I know this thing has so much potential, hate to give up on it so I will see what I can do with it.
I hope to have it buttoned back up and off to the dyno tune my end of the month.

88BlackZ-51

iTrader: (2)

Would prob make too much tq for my liking with a HSR. Sure drop in anytime.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Minirams can make ok torque but are picky on the cam. They do like tight lsa's

gbayfisher

Status update:
So.... I ported and siamesed the First runners and plennum.
First off, this was not an easy task for a first time porter. I cant believe the time invloved, and the amount of material left on the ground, I have a new found level of respect for guys on here that do this on a regular basis! lol.
Luckily, I only burned a hole through one runner, so I used my original to finish the project. I quickly learned how important it is to measure very often! I found it difficult to stay centred considering the runners are not truly 'circular', they are slightly mis-shaped, and oblong in some ports. by the middle of the porting, i was getting the hang of things, and the last half went rather quickly.
Anyways.... I opened the runners to 1.87' and shortened the total runner length to approx 19.5 inch by shortening the runner entrance by 2 inches. I opened the dividers in the plenum to port match the ported runners.
I essentially opened the runners to the stock First gasket size, they measure right at that 1.87' mark. I was surprised to find that the base port opening were cast exactly at the gasket size of 1.87' , so I left the base as is since it already measured to my ideal csa.
I will enlcose a couple pics.

I also replaced the 165 ecm with a Dynamic Efi EBL ecm. i quickly fired the car up last night, but it was running pig rich and it was getting so late that i had to shut it down very quickly, I will trailer the car to my shop this weekend where I have no noise restriction or neighbor issues!! i did intially hear a fairly loud whistle from the intake, not sure if it was TB, intake runners or vaccum leak, but i hope i can correct it. I just hope i didnt create a blow whistle with my porting? We will see.
I have a busy couple weekends ahead of me with tuning. SD tuning and the ebl is a whole other ball game!
I also ordered some new suspension components from UMI, so I look forward to tighening up this car, it truly needs it.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

You are getting the idea. The pictures look good and should move your power band up in the rpm range. I have telescoping gauges and a dial caliper and measure all the time as I need a rest. While resting from grinding I measure.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Tuning will go pretty quick with the EBL. I've been working on my tune for a week and I've already got the ve tables workable. I have one slight rich spot before AE kicks in that I'm fighting, and the upper RPM WOT areas need a bit more work on a dyno. My car's running the best it ever has after only a week of tuning!

gbayfisher

Thats good news, cant believe your already there.
I was going ask you if you had tweaked your low Ve table for your starter bin?
Im not sure if I can even do a learn with the way it started for that brief moment (pig rich), could be that i just needed to warm it up abit, we'll see.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I didn't change any of the ve tables when I started mine. It idled at about 13:1 the first time I started it. It will learn.

gbayfisher

ok, not even sure if i can get mine to idle, but i might trailer it to the shop tomorrow night and try it out.
Any video updates coming?

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

I'll have to rig up my poor mans go-pro (iphone+duct tape) and get a couple vids I guess lol. I have a short idle video when I first got it out. I'll put it in my build thread.

If your idle is that rich, you may just wanna drop the ve tables by 10-15% in the 0-60 kpa range below 1000 rpm. That should get it running.

gbayfisher

My issue ended up being a poorly clocked distributer, and after chasing and repairing an intake leak i am finally able to get out for some ve learns. low part throttle is good> I am having problems with getting anywhere near a wot situation. Ae and pe need some work now....then i will fatten up the upper range and contine on.

I have the suspension/chassis mods done and except for the strut brace. All went well, but need to modify the s.b to clear the FIRST intake.

Rearend has been whining like a stuck pig since the gear change and more so now that the pinion angle is a little off. I set it to factory specs but that only improved it slightly, maybe try messing with it again, but i HATE noisy rears, and i know the factory 10 bolt wont live long with a torquey set up like mine so i think it might be time to buy and install the last piece of the puzzle. Im considering a rear swap to a moser or currie 9 inch setup with street slicks this month, then I'm done! Just tune and run the car ( i hope) I'm really just tired of of farting around, I just want to run the thing now, and have some fun with it.

no Part 2 until 2013!!

gbayfisher

Nothing wrong about an iphone and a little duck tape!


My issue ended up being a poorly clocked distributer, and after chasing and repairing an intake leak i am finally able to get out for some ve learns. low part throttle is good> I am having problems with getting anywhere near a wot situation. Ae and pe need some work now....then i will fatten up the upper range and contine on.

I have the suspension/chassis mods done and except for the strut brace. All went well, but need to modify the s.b to clear the FIRST intake.

Rearend has been whining like a stuck pig since the gear change and more so now that the pinion angle is a little off. I set it to factory specs but that only improved it slightly, maybe try messing with it again, but i HATE noisy rears, and i know the factory 10 bolt wont live long with a torquey set up like mine, so i think it might be time to buy and install the last piece of the puzzle. Im considering a rear swap to a moser or currie 9 inch setup with street slicks this month, then I'm done! Just tune and run the car ( i hope) I'm really just tired of of farting around, I just want to run the thing now, and have some fun with it.

no Part 2 until 2013!!

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Learning how to hit all the cells on the VE tables while learning can take a bit of practice. And really, it takes some high rpm driving at 80+ mph to hit the highest ones. What I try to do after learning while at cruise for a couple miles is cruise at a steady rpm, then try to fill in as many cells values as I can by varying the pedal. Reflash the ECM often, and get it all filled in on the same day, when the weather is "normal" for when your usually driving. I just did a few more BLM based ve learns this week and when I drove to school in the early AM, it pulled 3% out of the cruise range, then when I drove back home, it added 3% throughout as the weather got warmer, so you really have to do it all at once, and then enable CL and let the BLM's take over when your close.

Oh, and PE is just a target AFR with the EBL. No work required there unless you want to change your target WOT AFR!

gbayfisher

Thanks for the pointers. Tried finding some info on PE and didnt see much, its no wonder!
Just like with the 165 ecm, I am chasing knocks counts like mad. Going to post on the ebl thread about turning it down or even completely off.

gbayfisher

Finally getting this thing to run the way it should! Due in part to the porting work and the EBL Ecm, I like it so far, i have never felt it pull like this before, especially how strong it is pulling past 6000 and tbh wasnt expecting this, but i am happy nonethelesss!

Looking at diffs from moser, Ouch.... wavetrac musclepack ready to bolt on looking at close to 4k
Its so nice though!

gbayfisher

Was doing some more research today. realized I dont need a waveloc 35 spline setup, way overkill for this setup. I priced out a 31 spline, traction lock with new disk brake setup from Quick performance delivered to Buffalo for 2900, not bad for complete reasy to bolt in. I think i will go this route.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

What kinda disk brakes do the qp housings come with?

gbayfisher

The standard disk set up is Ford explorer type 11 inch single piston caliper. They also sell the optional Wilwood setups if you wish. Not sure i need dual piston setups for the back though, would rather spend it up front i think.

gbayfisher

The closer i get to completing this project, the farther i get from the end!
During tuning runs and pinging issues, i did a plug cut and noticed oil residue on number 3, great..... other 7 are looking good. Pinging issues could be a symptom of the carbon build up from burning oil.

Now the question is....Has cylinder gone bad, or vacuum pulling the oil through the valve seals, or even bad head gasket?
I did quick wet/dry pressure test, makes good pressure with 200psi dry and i would say about 202wet, now this is on a cheap gauge, but at least indicates decent sealing, and comparable to 2 other holes at 198-200.

If the cylinder is bad, I have a big decision to make! lol.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Sucks man, if you need to tear it down, just go turbo and buy mine

gbayfisher

Are you not completing the turbo build?
If i need to tear it down, i may flog the sbc and go lsx turbo.

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

Alot of things have changed in the past 3 months. To do the turbo with the car 4 hrs away I just don't have time. Sold my cam and headers, going back to the original plan, buy a nitrous cam and spray her. Ill be lucky if its done this year though, my priorities have changed.

Also bought a 2000 regal supercharged, my minds already going with that thing lol I have a friend running 10's in his. But 1 project at a time hehe

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

That sucks man. I'm keeping my eye on some suspicious coolant disappearances myself... It never ends!

gbayfisher

it doesnt end. I'm praying for a cheap seal. I hope yours is spraying out of a hose somewhere.

gbayfisher

Fun daily driver, i need one of those.

gp90gta

iTrader: (1)

Don't know if this will help but my three and five plugs where getting wet with oil, more so on five, the oil was getting sucked into those cylinders because of the PVC valve, I put a small filter in the valve cover that fixed the problem.

gbayfisher

[QUOTE=gp90gta;5280825]Don't know if this will help but my three and five plugs where getting wet with oil, more so on five, the oil was getting sucked into those cylinders because of the PVC valve, I put a small filter in the valve cover that fixed the problem.[/QUOTE

Thanks, yes, will def look into that. I just picked up a leakdown kit. I do get a lot of oil sucked through pvc, need to correct that asap. Should know more tonight!
Fingers xxxx'd

gp90gta

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I'd look into it, my moroso valve covers have no baffles inside so the PVC would just suck the oil right into the intake, the miniram has the pcv nipple closer to the number 5 intake runner but oil would get into number 3 also, they sell these little sponge filter that go into the grommet under the pcv.

gbayfisher

I do get a lot of oil in the intake, b ut there has to be a reason for number 3 to get enough to grunge up the plug, other 7 are spotless.

gp90gta

iTrader: (1)

Bad valve stem seal maybe.

gbayfisher

Tested the cylinder and it is perfectly fine

I am thinking that its an insane amount of oil being drawn through the pvc valve, and I believe number 3 port is just at the perfect angel/location to TB to draw the most oil through ( i hope)
I have the M/T valve covers and they are poory designed with the breather holes and knockouts being placed directly above a rocker, this doesn't allow any space for a proper baffle, only the supplied metal plates which barely divert a thing. So I will look into getting the hole moved over some, or spring for better covers.

gbayfisher

So... looks like the engine sucked the intake gasket partly into the runner from the inside/valley area, confirmed with borescope. I am fairly certain I was pulling oil from valley into intake port from there. I knew i should have gone with a "man' cam, this thing pulls too much vacuum, lol.
Intake is off, just waiting for gaskets from FIRST, but I will go ahead and re-install the lower and get the dizzy back in. Everything is taking forever because I have been working out of town for last 5 weeks, so everything is done in bits and pieces, i will be back on road next weekend, hopefully at that time i will be able to get back to tuning!
Im just glad,at this point it doesnt look like blow by

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

That's gotta be a relief! What gasket were you using?

gbayfisher

Yes, it's a relief, of course assuming that is the issue, but i am fairly confident after looking at the gasket. I am not certain which gasket was used since the builder installed the intake for me. The gaskets were stacked with a thick and thin piece, which im not a huge fan of since it looked like they slid against each other causing the leak. I am going to try a .120 thick gasket this weekend.
Should make tuning a little easier without the oil going through the cylinders!

gbayfisher

Edit*

Gasket was actually a .060 1205 but it de-laminated. Going to try and find a better gasket. Someone suggested a steel core type.

gbayfisher

Got it buttoned back up, finally. Everything is working as it should now, no more oil burning!!
Tune is coming along now that i have something to work with, and the car feels very strong. I have a set of spare rims coming and I am considering M/T ET Street drag radials for some much needed traction. Im just concerned that this rear wont make it too many times off the line..... The First makes some decent low end torque, so time will tell how long it lasts, I dont think long, and I am concerned of a 90mph grenade! lol. I want to order my 9inch very soon.
I am trying to make it to the track in the next couple weeks, so I will have a time slip update soon.

1gary

I sure sounds like the builder shimmed the intake gaskets so as to not have to machine the intake for a proper fit.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

It won't be a 90mph grenade, it'll be a 5mph grenade. When you put your right foot down at the 3rd yellow, the revs will just snap right to the fuel cutoff, and the car wont move too far. If it survives the launch, it will survive the rest of the run!

I'm excited to compare times between yours and my combos. What's your 'verter stall at? And did you finish up your larger/siamesed runner project?

gbayfisher

It actually wasn't shimmed like I thought! I was surprised to find out the gasket delaminated. The intake was machined to a very good fit.

Time will tell!

gbayfisher

I know the chances are it wont pass the tree, but a good hard shift into second and third can take it out as well. I'll find out the hard way sooner or later if i dont get the diff, so I will be trailering the car to the track until then., lol.

Stalls @ 2600-2800, and will be interesting to see how they stack up.

About the runners, oh yes, that was done this spring. i ported the runners from 1.75 to 1.90-ish, and siamesed 1.75 down the runner. The Upper plennum also had to have the runner dividers cut out and matched to new size runner. It was a great deal of work, but the engine responded very well, and has no issues pulling past 6k now, where it used to struggle past 5k. I want to get it on the dyno soon.

heres a pic of the intake after blending the plennum to runners.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Sounds good. A lot of us are very interested in your dyno results.

Podium

iTrader: (2)

Dyno result?

gbayfisher

Actually... I just went in for some tuning on the dyno yesterday, just haven't had time to post up.
For comparison reasons; initial dyno runs were on a dynojet, current dyno was done on a Mustang, I know they vary a little, perhaps in my lower hp range not so much, but thought i would mention.

This engine does not like much advance, 26-28 max is all she wanted. This is assuming my initial timing is correct as per my timing light, and my data log on the EBL, makes me wonder if my degree tab is off? I will check that out.

Final numbers are: 320@5500 and 340ftlbs@4400

Better than before, but lower than what I wanted or felt they would come in at, especially considering the peak hp coming in where it should at 5500rpm, and how much stronger the engine felt after the porting work.
I would be confidant to say that this combo is pretty much maxed the way it sits. I will be hitting the track this coming Wed for some fun.

Since last years track time I have changed or added; UMI rear control arms and relocation kit, new torque arm, rear adjustable shocks, front adjustable shocks , EBL ecm, ported and siamesed the runners, and new M/T drag radials. With the suspension and tires the car hooks and launches pretty hard, i should pick up some good time by the 60ft, and i think it will trap a little higher then prior (I hope) lol.

In conclusion......I'm happy with the car, it runs nice and pulls great for a street car, but not sure where i want to go from here. I do know that i am getting bored with this platform....lol

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

That's quite a bit better number than the last dynojet number actually. I'd be interested to see the torque curve tho! That's what really matters, with that early peak, I bet its a monster on the street.

gbayfisher

Not so bad i guess. Net gain was about 15hp, but more importantly, 30ftlbs increase over a wider range. and yes the torque curve is broad but hard to see on the chart because of the Automatic and trying to keep it from dropping a gear under wot, pulls started at a rather high rpm. It definitely is an absolute blast on the street, puts a smile on the face of everyone who rides in it.
One major difference is she now holds power until 6200 before dropping off. Before the porting work, it hit a wall at 5500.


My brothers 540rwhp gt 500 is waiting for it though, not going to go well! lol. I will take him to 100ft, then its see ya later.

gbayfisher

Quick update:

Finally made it to the track!

She ran very well, no issues at all and I am happy with the results. I made 7 runs in total

Best of 12.72@ 110
worst of 12.83 @ 109

couple 107mph and 12.80 times.

0-60ft were 1.80- 1.85, consistent, but a little slow? I added some timing off the line but couldn't get into the 1.7's. I would really like to see 1.6's here, and i think its achievable. That would get me down to mid 12's. I almost felt like it needed another 300-500 of stall (3000-3200 total) I might consider sending it in for a tweak this winter.

Suspension and tires worked great.

gbayfisher

Quick update:

Finally made it to the track!

She ran very well, no issues at all and I am happy with the results. I made 7 runs in total

Best of 12.72@ 110
worst of 12.83 @ 109

couple 107mph and 12.80 times.

0-60ft were 1.80- 1.85, consistant, but a little slow? I added some timing off the line but couldn't get into th 1.7's. I would really like to see 1.6's here, and i think its achievable. That would get me down to mid 12's. I almost felt like it needed another 300-500 of stall (3000-3200 total) I might consider sending it in for a tweak this winter.

Suspension and tires worked great btw.