InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Well, that's me. This is "just mild enough" for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw-PnNu7hXo

Any less...well....I'm making power to 6400 then it falls off slightly, doesn't drop like a stone. That's a 240/246 .602 lift in a 427.

As far as the FIRST, PM me we'll work it out...

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"As far as the FIRST, PM me we'll work it out."

I assume you are talking about the First Fuel Injection TPI unit. If so do you have any dyno data or other horsepower reports on it? Information is hard to come by regarding the First.

gbayfisher

Vettes are just soooo cool! it actually idles very nicely.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

It's not horrible. I run AC, it's a full street dress car. Leather seats...stereo, all stock trim. You can see the back bumper, it's not shaking all over the place.

The cubes make the cam ACT smaller than it is, but that's why I was talking 230 ish... it's a 112 separation set 8* advanced.

gbayfisher

Did you ever figure out the clanking? Any dyno numbers?

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Ummm.......yeah..... My distributor had screws on it....I was changing the injectors and well.....one of the distributor screws went down the injector hole...so....I wound up with the 427... The clanking was my super rammed 350.

As to dyno, yeah, I had it on the dyno for a means of tuning. I was WAAAYYYY too fat with an AFR under 10.0. Once I clean that up, based on what we have seen should be about 475 at the wheels is our best estimation, torque should be about 425-450 ish. Makes power all the way to 6400. If I had more free time, it would be DONE by now. I just don't.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"we have seen should be about 475 at the wheels is our best estimation, torque should be about 425-450 ish. Makes power all the way to 6400."

Thats good. The First intake system should be able to support that type of power with a little clean up.

gbayfisher

Thats good. The First intake system should be able to support that type of power with a little clean up.[/quote]

I subscribed to the thread about the First intake you guys are working on, hope you guys get some good results with it!

gbayfisher

Finally got the cam spec'd and finalized!

Mike wants to put me in a 228/228 on 112.

I need to find a good converter, Mike thinks i can get away with a 2200 2400 with this lsa 112. I don't know if I would be better off with a 2400-2800? I have not been in a 2400 -2800 stalled car, have no idea what it would act like.


Keeping the stock 3.23's until I find another rear.



My gentle street build is becoming more violent every day!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

That is a very good camshaft. I know someone running one but on a 113 as they have to pass California smog. Idles very nicely. With the right supporting parts you will have no trouble having an 11 second car.

Go with the 2800 from a reputable company. There have been a lot of improvement in torque converters over the years. I was running a Yank SS3600 and it was not all that much different from stock. I sold it to Andy in our club and when he first drove it he was amazed as it did not feel all that much different from his stock one. Now when you nail it to the floor that is a different story. Running a Yank PT-4000 now as I have to keep up with the 3rd gen/LSX guys in the area.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I'm running a mini ram on this build. I don't think the first was available at the time I did this. They were new and unproven.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

That sounds good! Don't go over 3.73 on the rear. My .02.

gbayfisher

I'm going to start searching!

I'm going to see how this 3.23 feels, I have a feeling I'm going to like the higher gear!

Might have found a local built 700 r4 with very low k for cheap cheap, has a 2600 -2800 stall, but non lock up. Wires unhooked so he doesn't know if it has a lockable converter or not. Might be worth looking into.
Is there any way to see if a converter is locking or not?

gbayfisher

I was wondering if I should start a new thread for some other parts and items I would like to discuss for my build.
In seeing the direction the thread it has gone, I feel it would be more benificial to let it run as a continuous build thread since everything discussed will be my build specific/related.
Perhaps the mods can let me know if it will cause an issue!

My next step aside from tranny will be exhaust. I am looking at keeping a single pipe, factory look. I would also like to keep the air tubes, o2 sensors, original muffler location, and tip location.
What header options would best fit my build? I have seen many and have not tried any of these, so don't know what has worked and is of decent quality to some of you guys. I can weld the tube fittings in if it will safe me money.
I was thinking 1 5/8 headers, since my port size is smaller than this i think they would work fine?
Also 3-3.5 inch collector and Y into high flow cat and out.

Dont know about mufflers yet. I do know I want subtle and not obnoxious.

I am going to keep searching but wanted to hear of some personal experiences through you guys.

THX

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

magnaflow or Borla imo! This is turning into a great build!

gbayfisher

I do like Borla's tones. My brother has Borlas on his Shelby gt 500, Thing sounds like its from another planet! I will have to see what they have for my car.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Im running a full 3" setup and LTs through a 3" borla xr1 and i love the sound.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

FIRST TPI 383 with 195 heads? I'd go dyno don's 1 3/4" shortys. Has AIR fittings and the 1 3/4" port will cover the AFR 195 exhaust ports. 1 5/8 hooker 2055's wont. hedmans shouldnt either. I've had both but i had hedman non-AIR shortys. Hooker 2055's have a 1.9" collector...weak. Hedmans had a 3" which is great but still a small tube size. The 1 5/8 tubes just dont fully cover the exhaust port. There is an overhang. Could have a slight restriction with that. So if you can get 1 3/4 then get it. Else be forced to work with a 1 5/8. That size has supported a good amount of hp, i just rather see the entire exhaust port covered by the header.

3.5" exhaust would be nice to run if you can to get most power out of the setup if running a cam large enough to turn 6200+ and over 350whp like discussed. 3" will feed 350-375whp just fine with good mufflers. Heck some 4th gen guys run 3" catbacks and make over 400whp+, but 3.5" becomes better option over 350whp-400whp. Above that I'd go single 4". Should see good gains over the smaller systems if they are designed right. To be safe I ran single 4" on my 383 that made 400whp and it felt great. Maybe slight overkill but worth it. Plus i ran nitrous so more exhaust is always a good thing there.

I had dynomax ultraflo round muffler. Not in stock locaton but before the axle. Very loud car but quieter than borla xr1/dynatech split flow mufflers. Magnaflo straight through would be comparable to the ultraflow dynomax.

Stock location muffler using dual outlet tips you'd have to look at flowmaster 80 series, hooker aerochamber, or spintech. Spintech probably has best design but hard to say for sure. I've heard the spintech and it sounds good.

If you ran a muffler in the stock location and just dumped it single outlet behind the bumper or a single tip out the back bumper, then you could run any muffler. If you have to be smog legal with a highflo cat, I think you will need to stick with 3" for cat availability but could run any muffler since the cat will deaden the sound alot.

gbayfisher

I think sticking with the cat would be nice... keeps the sound less raunchy and cleaner imo. Are headers measured inside or outside diameter?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

usually they are outside diameter. wall thickness is in gauge. Most headers are 16 ga.

gbayfisher

O.k, 1-5/8 is small. Factory Y seems to be about 2.5 inch?
So if I bump up to 3 inch header collector I have to go all the way, unless of course I cheap out and reduce it back down to the factory cat back?

How bad would it be if I went with the good headers reduced to factory size at the cat?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Dont have any figures to give you but going to a single 2.5" over a single 3" would have a good amount of hp lost, especially on the higher hp motor you talking about building.

You can do 3" ypipe into single 3" with a good Y-merge like a flowmaster merge but I dont think they make a dual 3 to 3" setup. I know magnaflow does and its cheap, like 25 bucks.
Or you can do 3" to 2.5" reducers at the collectors to make it a 2.5" ypipe to 3" single.

My LS1 uses a crappy 3" ypipe into single 3" catback thru dual cats and still probably puts down 340whp thru the auto. Its a crappy Y tho, the merge is just a hole in one pipe with the other stuck in it. very sharp abrupt joint. Not good for flow transition. I bet there is a 10-15hp in a good exhaust system for that car. Not a bad gain in an exhaust system.

So you can do a 1 5/8 if you want but dyno dons are available and are a great system. I think his Y pipe may be 2.5 or 2.75" into a single 3" for stock style catbacks. I'd run that if the pricing fits your budget. I dont know what they cost off-hand but dont think it will break the bank. PM him.

gbayfisher

Do you think 3 inch all the way back is big enough? I would assume the most important area is the header to cat, and less so after the cat. I want to make sure I get the important things first and done properly
I'm going to pm him right now,

So your" Y" is really a "T" lol.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

its still a Y but a really crappy Y but the price is hard to beat. There are better ways to make one if you have one custom made

I think 3" all the way back is ok for now with a straight thru muffler and high flow cat. The entire exhaust system can really effect performance. Exhaust systems can be tuned just like intake systems. Its almost just as important. everything from header pipe size, length, collector size, and exhaust pipe length/size after the collector makes a difference. For a street car, under 400whp, it may not be a significant difference but every little bit helps. I just havent seen results from a factory length system compared to the proper / ideal length and size exhaust system, but we have all heard stories of how some cutouts a foot or so behind the collectors really picked up performance and how open headers lose low end power...it all depends on the length of pipe before discharge.
You can have open headers with a collector extension make more torque/power than full exhaust system with mufflers. Its not 'backpressure' its total tuned length

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

dyno dons headers = $550ish
dyno dons Y pipe = $250-275

i ordered the non air tubes, not sure if air tubes are more

gbayfisher

Found a pair of used slp's for good price, but only 1 5/8.
I got a price for Dyno Dons , about $500 with air tubes, and 200 for y pipe. I may just buy the Dyno Dons headers and be done with it, and do a 3 inch y pipe to high flow single cat.
I do want to stay single all the way back but will be maybe bumping up to 3.5, I think 4 inch would be too big for me.
I looked at the Borla with the adjustable plate system and like it alot, gives me the flexibilty to adjust for sound and flow. I may get a similar system done custom and local.
I may just go aluminized instead of stainless, for the cost diff i dont see the justification of SS. I also want hidden tips so dont need fancy SS or crome tips, seems like the big exhaust guys charge a fortune just for the tips included in their packages.

My favorite sounds seem to be Borla, and Magnaflow.
What can I do to minimize resonation and raspy mid range crackling?

gbayfisher

I have decided to go Dyno Dons headers, pretty much the only street header that will cover the afr 195 ports! Gonna order them this weekend if possible.
Dont know if the 2.75 Y pipe is big enough for me? Should I get one made up in the 3 inch range?

Looking at finalizing the stall and tranny. Have some feelers out on the trans and not too worried about getting what I need there. Dont know about the stall yet. Trans guys telling me they can build me a 2600-2800 stall, but i guess that is using the factory stalls and tweeking them? Not sure how they will work.... I know many have used a stock vette or s10 converter and they stall at 22-2400 are have been found to be reliable. Or should I just bite the bullet and go VIG, EDGE, or YANK?
Found one 3600 VIG but I think it is too high for me. What do you guys think?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you will be ok with 2.75. Thats 2.75 into a single 3" pipe or what size is it?

Converter, i'd bite the bullet and get a good custom converter made. 2800-3000 is a good choice for a street strip car

gbayfisher

[quote=Orr89RocZ;4752082]you will be ok with 2.75. Thats 2.75 into a single 3" pipe or what size is it?

DD's headers, 2.75 collector to 2.75 Y to 3" in and 3" out of single CAT, and 3 " to muffler.

Converter, i'd bite the bullet and get a good custom converter made. 2800-3000 is a good choice for a street strip car[/q

I agree, I think I would be happy with a nice 2800-3k stall.

I would hate to blow a new tranny because of a crappy stall, just dont have anyone local yet for doing good 2800-3k stalls. I am waiting on a friends contact in Buffalo who may be able to do me a tranny and stall for a good price, If not, i will do the tranny myself or local builder and buy a good stall like the three mentioned.
If there is any other small converter builders I should be aware of let me know

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

A good quality converter is probably the best thing you can buy for your car...other than the best set of heads you can afford. Those are 2 places you should never skimp out on IMO.

gbayfisher

Well... I would rather buy it once, thats for sure.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Just a side note for you to ponder, I wanted to know for sure what difference there was so I changed my intermediate pipe to 3 1/2" from
3"(after the dual cats),
on the next dyno session I lost 13 RWHP and 20 RWTQ.

I also tried a 52mm TB and an 58mm no difference. (maybe 1 HP)

By the way my Y-pipe is 2 21/2" to 3" Y or 3 1/2" Y before the cat.

gbayfisher

So you stayed single after your dual cats and lost a good amount of horsepower by going bigger..interesting to know!

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Why do you think that happened? Where was it lost?

Was the next dyno session on the same day on the same dyno? If not, what were the environmental conditions? Temp/humidity ect...

I'm sorry I don't know, what were the HP numbers and was 13 in the margin of error? Are these both corrected numbers?

83z28troy

very nice I would love to turn mine into a 383 but i wanna build a 406 or 403 sbc roller motor first or have someone build it as i have no idea how to do these things. I grew up around all high performance cars as a kid but i just recently got into it myself my pops passed before i had a chance to learn anything of great value. third gens are my favorite and i just got 2 of them so i will learn on way or the other

gbayfisher

I am looking into tuning and ecms.
Before going too far... I am very green when it comes to tuning, been doing a lot of reading and am starting to grasp the concept somewhat.
Will the factory ecm do all that I would need? Or should i look into aftermarket stuff like the Ebl?
Since i am a beginner, I want to keep it as simple and as easy to tune as possible.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

factory is more than enough to do everything you need. I use factory ecm stuff on my 9 second twin turbo motor

gbayfisher

Sounds good.

gbayfisher

Christmas came a few days early for me!!

assembly is getting real close

Heads and cam will be delivered to builder tomorrow, assembly has started and should be finished in a couple few weeks. So after the Christmas break, around second week of Jan I will turning the heat on in the garage and ripping out the 5l ! Things should come out pretty easy as its so clean in there, but a little worried about 23 year old bolts and line fittings! I guess time will tell.

friend of mine may have some 32lbs injectors for me, used only for a short season. I would think they will be plenty?

couple pics!

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

what cam did you end up going with?

gbayfisher

Ended up with Mike Jones grind 228/228 on a 112.
Wondering now if I should do the hydra rev kit. Motor may see the odd spin to 6500, might be good insurance?

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

When I ordered my afr's from this site, forgot the guys name, I mentioned that to him. He said its not really worth the money. As long as you got the upgraded springs with the heads you should be fine. The motors not going to live up in the 6500 range am sure. Did you upgrade the springs?

gbayfisher

I didn't buy them new so I am not positive. I think they are upgraded, my guy will let me know tomorrow as he is is going to check the springs for me.

gbayfisher

I'm ready to order rockers now....
Looking at the Comp pro mags 1605's, and Harland Sharp S1005. I hear good things about the Promags and less about the HS's. Anyone here try the Harland Sharp? They come at a good price point, and my builder has had very good luck with these aluminum pieces and says they would fit under the factory mag covers the best (most likely), personally, I like steel over aluminum but am not adversed to saving $90 which would almost cover my lifters!
Thx

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

The comp pro magnums have a good rep. Alittle pricey but I've been told if something goes wrong u can send them in and they will rebuild it. Will cost 1/2 the price then to buy a new set. I think I spent 360$ for my 1.52 rockers but atleast I have a piece of mind comp stands 100% behind there product

LS4GXP

iTrader: (2)

The comp ultra pro magnums have a good rep. Alittle pricey but I've been told if something goes wrong u can send them in and they will rebuild it. Will cost 1/2 the price then to buy a new set. I think I spent 360$ for my 1.52 rockers but atleast I have a piece of mind comp stands 100% behind there product..

gbayfisher

I guess for the $90, comps are worth the piece of mind and added life cycle.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Either will work just fine. I have had both and I am currently running the Harland Sharps.

gbayfisher

Is there a reason you switched, what valve cover did you fit over the pro mags?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I can't remember which cover I ran with the Pro Mags. Maybe the stock ones with the breather trimmed. The reason I switch was I wanted to go to a 1.65 rocker ratio with my new AFR 195 Competition heads. According to PipeMax I needed to be around .600" lift to prevent choke with the camshaft I am running. I had a chance at the Harland Sharps for a good price so I went for them. So far I have been up to 6800rpm with no problems.