Apeiron

Based off it how?

UnstableAviator

He's a car enthusiast who gets it. The first gen sbc was good for its time, but the LS engines have left it in the dust. I've built 3 SBC's, and enjoyed them a lot, and they will always be a popular platform. Bit I've seen the light, and for now, LS is everything the gen 1 SBC couldn't be. Five7kid said it best....there's a lot of real world experience here being ignored.

Vega

Theres quite a bit of knowledge from the 1st gen SBC in the LS series, not based on it but theres still some old tricks in there. However theres a whole lot more of the Buick 350 in them

I guess my point earlier was just that, if the shortblock is in the car, its easier and cheaper to build a 305 and theres absolutely nothing wrong with that. Its still a great power producing motor and will make near the same power as a stock 350 with a similar top-end swap (unless 30tq is a world of difference to you). But yes, for a full longblock swap, the 350 or 383 would be the most cost-effective and unless its a rare numbers matching car thatd be my vote. Hell even LS motors are getting rather cheap anymore except that they dont bolt right in and out of a gen 1 engine bay

In my experience it takes a 50/50 of homework and real world experience to come to a conclusion on something. Some people will go their whole lives reading about stuff on the internet and never know the first thing about building it when the time comes, however on the other hand some people will go through life building stuff randomly, beating their heads against the wall until they finally get it right 20 years down the road when it doesnt matter anymore. My point being, homework and experience, both just as necessary. Also griping that a certain build is "idiotic, pointless, and a waste of money" online is a completely ignorant opinionated statement. Factual pros and cons are good, or helpful tips on what to watch out for, but blatently saying "youre an idiot for building anything but a 350 or 383" is just stupid and doesnt help anything. In fact it would turn me away from someones advice more than help me reach my end goal. Its just like all those Ford guys saying their 302 is the only game in town, and we all know none of us wanna be like them, yeah? xD

Just be helpful and respectful guys, theres a real shortage of that on this site ive noticed...

89RsPower!

they have the same number of cylinders and are both made by gm...

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

They also have the same bore spacing... That's about where the similarity ends.

Also... a little food for thought. Not making an endorsements, just an interesting picture.



LS1 heads, clearly. But look at the flexplate and look at the distributor...

85T/A350

The thing is, he already has a 350 in the car. He is talking about finding a lg4 to build to replace the 350. Who does that?

Apeiron

And the same rod journal size. Otherwise it's about as similar to an SBC as to a 351W.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Amen

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I don't think a true enthusiast would call the first generation small blocks junk.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

explain that pic for me, cause thats a whole bunch of confusion.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Me apparently. The 305 is just an engine I have dreamed about building. I was heart broken when I found out my Camaro had a 350 in it. I had just figured it had a stock 305 since it has the stock carb. I have been doing research and dreamed about building what I thought was a 305 in my Camaro since I was 14. So now I am just determined to build a LG4 305 which I understand is hard for a lot of people to grasp. I can even understand why some of you guys find it to be idiotic. It has a smaller bore, why would I do build a smaller displacement engine when I already have a larger one? The 305 won't be able to make the power that a 350 will if I upgrade them with what I know how to do. It is hard to explain exactly why I want to have a LG4 305, so I can see why people would find it hard to understand why I want to. Its not even just that I have dreamed about building one and I have done all the research on how to build one. There is just something special about that motor to me.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I read an article about it one time. haha I know I do too much reading and not enough building as you put it, but I think it was GM that said they have the heritage of the first generation small block in them.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That's a smallblock Ford.

Vega

Okay well yes, that clears up a lot. If there is already a 350 in the car you might as well build the 350. I was under the impression that there was no car yet, that he was just getting to the phase of researching which motor to build and the car it would be placed in hadnt even come up yet. If you were to yank a 350 its a really great opportunity to place in a 383, however doing a top-end swap on that 350 isnt out of the question either. Lots to be gained there. Also in the interest of being different without suffering, why not try a turbo 350? or my personal favorite the roots-style supercharger? Sure a roots supercharger isnt unique at all on a 350 but on a 3rd gen its pretty rare with everyone procharging them. A turbo would be interesting too.

Way way off the wall here but it might be neat to do a boosted EcoTech haha, like a Camarbalt. Itd kinda follow in the footsteps of the turbo T/A. But then again if i were going to do a boosted modern motor id start with an LS, probly the 5.3 since its really cheap right now. But a turbo 1st gen 350 would be awesome too, and pretty unique for the vehicle type in question

Also, i may be wrong on this, but i believe the LS motors carried over a lot of R&D and design elements from the vortec heads right? One other similarity for you lol. That coupled with the roller cam designs do start to lend credit to the theory that they were loosely based on the gen 1 SBC haha. But no matter where they came from, theyre here, and theyre wonderful =)

Vega

Smallblock Ford with cathedral ports?

eseibel67

This is the root of the conflict in this thread. The mechanical advice that the tech wizards are presenting do not mesh with the OP's fantasy. Emotional convictions are difficult to dissuade.

There is an appropriate application for an LG4 - a low mileage prefectly preserved time capsule Berlinetta. But if even part of the consideration is performance, there are much better answers.

I would encourage the OP to run this thread through the printer and review it in May of 2017.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Yup, It's very close to a direct bolt on.. I've seen it done a few times.. If you want to make a ford fast, gotta use GM stuff.
Altho I'd use the LS square port stuff and ditch those goofy heads fast..

midias

So sell the 350 and buy a 305 they sell for barely more than the scrap value of the block. I have seen good long blocks go for 100 bucks local. No one wants the small bore long stroke 5L.

Lets lock this thread there is no need to keep going. He really does not want any advice he was just looking for someone to agree with him and be a yes man. Let him be different he may be disappointed he may not be either way lock the thread and be done with it.

Here $300 for a rebuilt 10k mile 305

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/pts/2971712247.html

Or a 305 block for $40 I bet he cannot even give it away

http://youngstown.craigslist.org/pts/3018106855.html

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

The engine I am talking building in this thread will be for a different car. haha I don't know how we got to the 305. I would really love to twin turbo charge either the 305 I am going to put in my Camaro or the 350 if I just leave it. I wouldn't do a super charger because I have heard they are hard on the engine and I want the engine to last for a very long time.

midias

Not any harder on the engine than a turbo

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Midias I more looking for one that is good to drop in and run for now and that I could upgrade later. You are probably right he probably could get that block away especially since its bored .060 over I have heard when a 305 block is bored out that far the cylinder walls are prone to cracking I am not sure how true that is though.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Oh really? I thought a supercharger was harder on it because it runs directly off the engine while a turbo runs off of the exhuast.

midias

So get the rebuilt one with 10k miles for $300.

305s are all over the place and no one wants them so they go for little to no money. There is a reason for that. So sell the 350 and buy a 305 or 2 or 3

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Yeah you are right that no one wants them, but I could get one cheaper than $300. I could probably get one that hasn't been touched for $100-250. Sometimes it nicer to buy an engine no one has touched because you don't have to worry about if the previous owner did something to mess it up.

midias

Nope not really in any significant way. I have watched both types of motors with mild boost run well over 200k miles.

This entire thread makes me think you need to do a lot of reading

midias

I am not sure I would agree with that you still have to worry about the fact that it is 20 years old with the same 20 year old bearings and seals. If the motor runs right after 10K miles than it was probably put together right.

Then again do what you want or most likely nothing at all this thread has show you don't want advice just someone to agree with you.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I think I am good on reading about the first generation small blocks, but I could definitely do some reading about super and turbo chargers.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Right now my Camaro has a 40 year old engine. I am not sure if someone rebuilt it. I doubt it just because I don't know why someone would put the junky truck heads back on.

midias

It probably has bearings and other internals to reflect being 40 years old both in wear and metallurgy.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Midias this thread isn't just about someone someone agreeing with me. This thread was about building my 350 into a 302. I don't know how we got on the subject of me putting a 305 in my Camaro, but anyway after reading all that was said I am gonna build a 377 with my 350 block. It seems to be the best choice and most cost effective.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Maybe but it stills runs strong. It had full synthetic Mobile 1 in it when it was bought, so that may have protected the bearings and the internals.

midias

So what about the years when mobile 1 did not exist?

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I know but its fine. It doesn't knock or anything. It still has plenty of power. There isn't anything wrong with it so I don't see a point in tearing it apart.

midias

I understand you want a yes and not an opinion or advice. Do what you want I am sick of giving advice to kids who don't know any better and also don't care to know any better.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I get what you are saying the bearing and gaskets are old. It could use a rebuild. Actually you are right. Why wait for something to go wrong and get expensive. Replacing them now would be the smart thing to do.

midias

I am just saying if you are going to build a motor or change heads, cam ect just do a basic rebuild. Once crank bearing go they can make for some costly machining rework to get it right again.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Definitely my 350 block spun a bearing and it ruined the crankshaft. I was just going to put new bearing and such in but the crank was ruined so might as well build a 377.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

wait why are we talking about a 377 now. a 377 is a destroked 400 usually. the same number can porlly be harder with an underbored 383 too, i thought you wanted a 305 if you really want one i have a completely powder coated one we sink in the bottom of the lake to anchor my friends jetski carrier

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

also why would you want a rebuilt block when your chaning everything out anyways. a blocks a block theres very little that can be screwed up and if it is youll see the mains are mushroomed or a nice gouge in it right off the bat

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I was talking about the 377 that is a 383 that isn't bored. I am gonna put the 377 into a different car or truck. I am gonna either just leave the 350 in there or get a 305. Do you seriously use one as an anchor? haha

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

yes i do. when people say boat anchors i let them know i dont use that as a metaphor. i had 4 or 5 305's at one point so i usually make something out of them or use them as scrap or give them away. i have a 307 i cant let go it for some reason and 4 350's that i just find and sell

midias

I have been thinking of getting a 305 so I can do this

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I have 2 blownup Aluminum LS motors Im going to do that to. Im using a set of old bent LS rods and pistons for the glass supports tho.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i did that but it wasnt as cool and not made of glass. i put a wood frame for the base did a whole mosiac with nut bolts and stuff and covered in foil and then 8 lights in the cylinders and the table top then a piece of glass. it was cool

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

Yeah the 307 are probably the nicest Chevy 5.0 liter because it has a larger bore than the 305 and a longer stroke than the 302.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

first engine to produce 1hp per cubic inch IIRC

midias

I think it was the 283hp Fuel injected 283 corvette manual trans in 1957.


EDIT
According to wikipedia it was a 1956 Chrysler motor. I guess we were both wrong.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

that may be what i was thinking then. i read an article on both of them being small displacement v8's in the early 60"s, 70"s

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Or moved it to Off Topic with a heading of

" My wet dream engines "
or
"Engines I want to build if I grow up"
or
" How many times can I change my mind in one thread"

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I have 2 350s. I only changed my mind once about making a 377 instead of a 302. I always planned to put a 305 or leave the 350 in my Camaro.