ExhaustPost your questions and suggestions about stock or aftermarket exhaust setups. Third Gen exhaust sound files and videos!
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I saw this posted on another web site and there is a ton of information is just a couple of sentences.
"Very fast valve action lends itself well to work with shorter primaries, so long as your collector diameter, length and shape/taper matches the rpm range you need, keep the primarys as short as they can be and work well. If you can achieve max scavenging thru the collector design and hold torque with the short pipes you will benefit by reducing exhaust pumping losses due to gas temp/velocity and gas to pipe wall friction."
Maybe this is why Dyno Don's short tube headers work so well.
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That may be true, but for me I picked up 38 rwhp and about 20 rwftlbs going from SLP 1 3/4 shorty headers and a Flowmaster 3" cat back to Hooker 2210 longtube headers and a Mufflex 4" cat back on my Miniram'ed 383?
I think shorties do well on these cars (atleast on this forum) for several reasons..
1. People for some reason ONLY focus on low to mid range power. Not actually making their cars faster. If they aren't building engines that flow a lot of air, they aren't going to need better exhausts. Building an engine for much more power (400+whp out of a NON stroker engine) will require the use of better headers for example). Many also still stick to older engine parts as well; using stock "performance" heads from the 60s and 70s or even thinking that vortec heads are all that great.
2. People on here are also very hung up on emissions. Without getting into the arguement here, I will say that for some reason this forum is THE most diehard car forum I have been on when it comes to emissions. No other place that I go focuses on the law and following it blindly to the letter. Long tubes in no way can ever be emissions legal on these cars as it alters the original position of the cat. Nor do any of them carry a carb number which makes it automatically illegal for those that live in communist kalifornia.
3. Next, in reference to my first point, most of these cars cam with 305s. You don't need long tubes with a 305. It simply doesn't flow enough air to negate the downsides of running them.
4. Budget is also a concern. Many believe that you have to drop a TON of money to run long tubes. That's not always true. I have around $500 in my COATED headers and another $70-80 in y pipe parts. All total after I have the y pipe welded up and installed I might have 800 total in exhaust that will NEVER be a restriction to any street driven SBC. My y-pipe design has been proven on a 500rwhp all motor, stock displacement LS1. It is not going to restrict my car any. And it will tuck better than the stock exhaust. However, this is still much more expensive than standard shorty headers and as such they aren't that common. Another part of this equation is that the t56 is almost a must if you want to have good ground clearance with long tubes. Otherwise you will have practically nothing.
These are the reasons that I think most people don't choose long tubes. There are obviously others but I tried to hit on the ones I thought would be the biggest concerns.
For me, my whole exhaust system (Hedman LTs + y-pipe to muffler) was cheaper than a set of Hooker shorties.
I spent $100 on some slightly used (scratched, but paint was still on them) Hedmans, and $150 on y-pipe supplies, $100 on a muffler, plus a turn down and I was done.
I worked out a trade with a buddy to get it fabbed up, but if you can do your own welding work, long tubes are way cheaper than cobblign together an off the shelf system for shorties.
And that's why I went with LTs -> cheaper.
I could buy an uncoated set of Hooker shorties for more than I spent on my whole system, but that costs so much I think I would just want a coated set to begin with to protect that kind of investment in my headers and suddenly I have $700 caught up in a set of headers and then I still need to get a good catback. And last I checked pretty much every set of shorties out there had some sort of minor flaw, whether it be small primaries, crappy y-pipe, small collector, whatever.
And at the end of the day I can replace my hedmans two or three times over if they ever rust out and still come out ahead and I doubt I'll still be using a Gen I sbc in this car by that time. Now for me things came together well for that but it may not be practical for a lot of people.
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Last edited by InfernalVortex; 07-30-2009 at 08:12 PM.
2. People on here are also very hung up on emissions. Without getting into the arguement here, I will say that for some reason this forum is THE most diehard car forum I have been on when it comes to emissions. No other place that I go focuses on the law and following it blindly to the letter. Long tubes in no way can ever be emissions legal on these cars as it alters the original position of the cat. Nor do any of them carry a carb number which makes it automatically illegal for those that live in communist kalifornia.
You're probably referring to me, and I am just trying to get people to realize that with the current government, its only a matter of time before the feds make every state do emissions checks like California does in the interest of stopping "climate change." When that happens, those of you with illegal setups or removed parts are going to pay a very pretty penny for what little emissions parts are left out there.
Also, its my opinion that the hassle of long tubes such as less ground clearance and the need to fabricate a custom y-pipe negate the small power difference they give you on a street car. But for some people with race cars, they make a huge difference.
You're probably referring to me, and I am just trying to get people to realize that with the current government, its only a matter of time before the feds make every state do emissions checks like California does in the interest of stopping "climate change." When that happens, those of you with illegal setups or removed parts are going to pay a very pretty penny for what little emissions parts are left out there.
Also, its my opinion that the hassle of long tubes such as less ground clearance and the need to fabricate a custom y-pipe negate the small power difference they give you on a street car. But for some people with race cars, they make a huge difference.
Actually, I was just meaning over all. If (and its a big if), it gets that bad, I will part my car out and move on with my life. I have other hobbies that could take up my time and money.
However, once people start realizing that what is taught as proven fact, is really purely speculation (at best) I think things will start changing for the better for us.
