potterc32

iTrader: (1)

just had a 350 long block put into my 1985 firebird. since then i've been driving around with the stock 305 manifolds. i definitely think its time to upgrade to at least some shorty headers.

i dont have a lift or an engine stand, and i sure can't spend 2 or 3 days with out exhaust on the car. am i getting myself into a big bag of trouble? i'm sure the manifolds will be easier to get off since they haven't been rusted on there for 25 years. But it honestly doesn't look like much fun. and i DO WANT to keep my A/C.

can anyone summarize the MOST COMMON problems that you come across when installing headers to third gen?

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

Usually broken exhaust bolts is a common problem. My headers were easy to put onto my engine. I had the manifolds off and the new headers on the car in under 3 hours. However, my car doesn't have air conditioning or any of the smog equipment on it.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i have gotten rid of all the smog stuff, but i still have the a/c. do you still have that black box on the passenger side near the back of the header?

if so, how much clearance does the header have there? this is one of my biggest worries really. along with rubbing on the frame on the bottom part. driver side looks easy though.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Do yourself a favor and use some nut & bolt blaster. Spray all the bolts down real well the night before and right before you try and take them out. I just installed a pair of Edelbrock TES headers the other day by myself. Is your car TPI? That black box on the passenger side is a real PIA. I wasn't able to get a socket around the 2 back bolts. Took me a total of about 2 afternoons to put mine on. Allow yourself a whole afternoon of taking the old manifolds off if you have tpi. Have box wrenches handy too. Make sure you have jack stands and good support while under your car.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

What brand headers?

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

i actually have a quadrajet carb. i wasn't looking forward to the bolts in the back. but you think i can get them with a box wrench from underneath or is easier from the top?

the headers are hedman's shorty's.

another thing, would it be easier to use 3/4" long bolts rather than 1" ? or is this gonna make any difference?

Thank you! any other advice?

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

I changed from the AC heater box to the AC delete box. There is a lot more room in there now. I am running the Hooker 2460's currently and I don't have any clearance issues.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

what is a delete box? i imagine its a smaller version of whats on my car? where can i find a cheap one if i run into a problem with mine?

87_TA_GTA

if you do not want to get rid of your A/C then dont get the box. i am probably going to put on a set of 2055s this winter and will probably give myself half a day to do them, but i also have access to a lift. to play it safe i would say give yourself a weekend to do it because you dont know what you will run into

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I did all of my bolts from the top. Probably easier, and safer. 3/4 bolts will be fine.I bought my bolts at a local auto parts store for $7. Best to be prepared when you start this job. I recommend changing your plugs while you are at it. I had to get shorter plugs for mine and I if I were you I would get spark plug wires with 90 degree boots. I used Bosch 7985 plugs, they were only $1.79 each and were a lot shorter than my Ac delco rt 145's. Does your car have an oil cooler? I know on mine I had to disconnect the oil cooler line on the passenger side, so I could swing it out of the way when installing the header. On the driver's side I had to unbolt and move the steering shaft too. Also, I recommend that you do not install your plugs until you have your headers in place and situated, meaning having at least one of the back bolts in and one in the middle or so in. That way you can manouver your header around a little when you are putting in your plugs. If you put your plugs in first , you are liable to break them the first time you are trying to get your headers situated and in place. I recommend having a breaker bar handy for loosening up your old bolts, several box wrenches, a swivel socket. My headers went in easier pointing them downward toward the radiator and then putting on the back bolts first.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Also, remember to use actual header bolts. Do you have a ypipe for your headers yet?

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

the engine i have is a brand new GM Goodwrench 350. the pre -1987 or something. what kind of header plugs would i need? i dont have a lot of money, so some accels would be fine from autozone, right? or would the bosch's you mentioned work? i tried finding a spec for them but failed miserably.

as for the y pipe, i had planned on installing my headers in the driveway and then driving it (open headers) to a shop and having them make me one. would this be safe (considering they aren't aimed right at my starter or anything)?

i will be buying the header bolts from autozone.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

That's how mine is right now.LOL. I drove all around today to several garages so they could get the car up in the air and see what they may need to do. I think it will be fine. It will be loud as hell and you won't be able to really feel the difference in power until you at least get your ypipe on there. I know that for my motor and for most headers, you will need a shorter spark plug. Headers on a thirdgen are notorious for burning up plug wires from the wires hitting the headers or the boots being too close to the headers. Do some research on here for your Headman headers and see if other guys had to run shorter plugs and 90 degree boot wires. There are usually clearance issues with the plugs.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

If i remember correctly the header bolts should be 5/16 x 18x 3/4

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, the ones I used were Mr. Gasket 5/16 x 18x 3/4. Fit like a charm

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You can use the AC delco rt45 plug as a reference. I used the Bosch, because I didn't want to pay close to $30 for the Accel shorty plugs and I haven't heard good things about them anyway.http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...008+4294946233

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...008+4294946233 This plug is the 350 Bosch plug

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You can get good plugs and wires for about $30 total. I used wires for a 79' Camaro as they are made with 90 degree boots.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

I have A/C and if I didn't have the A.I.R. tubes and hoses to worry about, my 2055's would have been a piece of cake as the last two bolts are a complete PITA with the emissions stuff. If you can get to a lift, you can actually go up just over the back side of the bellhousing from behind the starter to get to that last bolt. Otherwise, remove the starter and get yourself a ratcheting wrench or a 1/4" drive ratchet with some extentions. A wobble tip extention makes things easier as well. I took almost 4 hours on my headers, the last two bolts two 2 hours at least.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

i also just read something about removing the steering shaft to get the driver side header in. is this correct? or would it just make it easier?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

You don't remove it, you separate it at the joint with 1 nut and bolt. When I put my old Edelbrock headers on they said to do that. One thing I'd recommend is getting some sort of stick on heat shield for the A/C box for the portion that'll be closest to the header.

whatever84

With Headman headers #68470 you will not need shorter header plugs (My car even has angle plug heads) clearance is not a problem for plugs so you can just get the plugs your car calls for. But the collector/starter clearance is very tight. Of course mine were very easy to put in because I have no emissions, A/C or black box. Again the headers I'm referring to are #68470 and have no emission hookups. Good luck.

Mark.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I can only answer for my Edelbrock TES Header install. It was absolutely necessary to disconnect and move the steering shaft aside for removal and assembly. Also the brake lines had to be bent and pushed aside.

camaroguy987

On my 84 camaro i used a set of Hooker "Shorty" comp headers. I really didnt have much clearence issues at all, the only real difficult thing now is getting my spark plugs in and out. Here is a link to the headers im using, http://www.holley.com/2460HKR.asp .
BTW they flow amazing. These headers have 3" collectors so i dont know if they will work with a stock crossover pipe. One thing is for certain tho, if you buy these headers you will want 90 degree spark plug boots, but the trouble is worth the deeper sound and the added horses you get. Hope this helped......

Jacob

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

well i already bought my headers. i was told by the seller that they are hedmans. but i looked for the hedmans online and didn't find the same headers. the passenger side header is significantly different (the #6 cylinder tube goes over the #8 tube and then behind it, as if making room for the heater box) which is actually what i am looking for. they honestly look like flowtechs. at least a 3/8 " flange, 2 1/2" collectors. and driver side has O2 bung welded on the rear side of the collector!! (oops!!!) what an idiot! whoever welded that on there apparently wasn't thinkin!

i just hope there is still room for the sensor. i know i will have to splice in a couple inches of wire for it though, the wire is definately too short. no special wire for that is there? i wouldn't think so, but doesn't hurt to ask. well let me know what you think about the headers. also consider the stock heater box (A/C still hooked up and functional***)

camaroguy987

Yes, those look like flowtechs to me aswell. My ac isnt hooked up , its going to take some finessing to get yours to fit. With the hookers, theres not the #6 tube rerouted around the #8 so i gain some clearance there...i ripped all of my emmisions equipment off. And my 02 sensor was gone when i bought the car. It looks like you going to have more trouble then I had.... gook luck bub

......J

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

bump

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Just another thought. If you have an alternator bracket originally attached to the first header bolt on the driver's side. Make sure that you re-install the alternator bracket. You will have to unbolt the first bolt on your headers up front on the driver's side. Then use a 3" bolt and a 2" inch spacer with 3 washers. That is what I did.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I already burned up 2 of my new spark plug wires on the driver's side. Damn!

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

so i got the headers put on, new plugs in, starter bolted back up. the only problems i really ran into, was my O2 sensor wire is way too short. can i just splice in any kinda wire to lengthen it? (not really interested in spending a bunch of money to buy one that's long enough) and my bracket on the A/C compressor/power steering pump.

now, i was told i could use some plumbing pipe for a spacer on the bracket, but the area where the stock manifold goes through the bracket (circled in yellow) is just too small for the header pipe... if i were to cut (along the red dotted line) that one piece off the bracket, would that make it fit right? any other solutions?

as for my dipstick, it wouldn't bolt straight up to the header flange without bending it even more, i still dont think it would fit right, should i just go buy one from autozone or something? or just let it hang there like it is now?

p.s. headers--5 pounds, stock manifolds--15 pounds.........20lb weight reduction.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

bracket picture

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

you can use any wire for the o2.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

as for my dipstick, i just let it hang there against the headers. no need to bolt it to anything. you had to take off your ps and a/c brackets?

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

yeah! i was pi***d when i saw i would have to remove those 2 brackets, thought i would have to remove all 3 for ps and a/c. but i just flexed them with a flat head to get that primary bracket off. why would they think of bolting those brackets to the exhaust!?!?! crazy. they just didn't build some of these cars for headers or fix-ability. but god i love em!

theNMBR27

The drivers side should be easy enough, but on the passenger side you will have to run the oil dipstick in between the header and flange. I'll post up a picture tomorrow. It will be much much easier if you remove the ac/smog pump bracket to slide the header in from the front.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You can bend the dipstick. It will be fine. What are you doing about a ypipe?

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i'm actually using the dipstick to hold one of the plug wires away from the tubes.

i'll be taking it to an exhaust shop a mile or 2 from my house. most likely driving it with open headers! lol i'm kind of excited to hear it, but i don't wanna bend a valve when i shut the car off. (relatively cold air rushing into the short pipes and rapidly cooling the valve stems)

what are my chances of bending a valve like that? any opinions? i live in southeast kansas, so its almost 90 degrees here does that make a difference?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

I think you will be ok driving it like that. I have never heard of bending a valve that way. Would you rather pay to have it towed? Your car will have no power with open headers anyway.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Drive it, wont hurt a damn thing.

potterc32

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i just went ahead and drove it up there, about 2 miles from my house, didn't get on it at all though, i babied it lol. but next time i have the car it'll have..... hedman shorties with 2 1/2" collectors, fabbed y-pipe--3 " all the way to the muffler (no cat) "80 series" flowmaster single in dual out...... we'll see how it sounds!!


whats the yellow stuff that's on the headers after you run them?

michta

I put the hedmantubular exhaust on a 84 with a 350 auto trans and had a y pipe with the kit that was the original routing, fit good had to move a brake line or twobut everything else was easy. About a 4 hour job first time.

Delo93

I'm having the same issue... I removed the nut and bolt(i think, if i removed the right one), but how to you separate it so i can move it out of the way?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

The steering shaft should slip out of the lower steering column where the nut and bolt were.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

Don't know how your 350 is setup, but when taking the headers off of my 350, the absolute hardest part was the long bolt that goes through the P/S pump bracket or whatever to the header. I eventually got it out, and the rest took a few minutes.

It's basically just a few bolts, no big deal. I did the header bolts, and a friend of mine went under the car and did the three bolts at the Y pipe, and the headers came out pretty easily. I imagine the reverse process would be just as easy.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You know what. Take a small flat head screwdriver or a chisel and a hammer and gently tap it out. Knock it towards the radiator.

DJK90IrocZ

Hey Camaroguy987...

What spark plugs did you ever install in with your Hookers 2460's? I am planning on installing the same headers and wanted to know what plugs you used. Did you route your wires under or over the headers with some wire loom/zip ties?

Thanks!

DJK90IrocZ

Anyone have any suggestions as to which gaskets to use with headers? I heard do not use the ones that the company sends with them.

Any good luck with Percy "soft" aluminum type?

Any issues with the bolts breaking off in the heads?

Thanks!!

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Hey man, I just use the regular header gaskets with mine. I have found that you should also elongate your header gaskets too. Meaning make them match the size of the actual exhaust port on your head. They will flow better. As far as bolts breaking off ,no. I have never experienced that. I do recommend getting a can of Pb Blaster and spraying all of your bolts down the night before and also a few min before you attempt to remove them. A breaker bar helps too and a swivel socket.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Ever since i read about port matching the header gaskets to the heads , i have not blown out my factory brand gaskets anymore.

DJK90IrocZ

91...

I was going to use allot of PB blaster on them to make sure.

Thats a good idea to cut out & trim the gaskets to match the exhaust manifold on the head side to get no restriction for airflow.

Did you ever have any issues with your Bosch 7985 plugs?