88GTAChuck

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

What’s more rare and desirable?

88 IROC 305 5sp with T-Top
OR
91 z28 305 5sp with T-Top

All opinions and suggestions wanted.

Drakar

I would go with the IROC as it will be and is rare then any Z28 (save 1st gen), but alot of people like SD cars (90-92) I would still get the IROC.

My .02

------------------
1989 Trans Am GTA - Flame Red Metallic, L98 5.7L TPI, TH700-R4, T-Tops, 3.27, 9-bolt rear, dual cat
- K&N Air & Oil Filter
- Dynomax muffler

1992 Camaro RS - Hawaiian Orchid, LO3 5.0L TBI, T-5, T-Tops, 3.08, 10-bolt rear - Sold
- K&N Air & Oil Filter
- L69 Dual Snorkel

Black92Z28

All of the following info is from iroczone.com

1988 - 24,050 IROC coupes built, 12,620 IROC's with the LB9 305 V8

1991 - 12,452 Z28 coupes built, 9,996 Z28s with the LB9 305 V8

I think when you consider also that the '91 Z28 has a 5 speed, it would definetely be the more desirable an rarer of the two IMO.

Have fun with whatever you decide!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There is really no such thing as a rare thirdgen. They won't really be considered rare till all the beat to hell last leg thirdgens have died off the roads. As long as beater variety thirdgens are around the general public won't consider them rare. Buy what you want, don't expect to make any money off a thirdgen for at least another 20 years.

88blkiroc

the subject of rare/collectable/desirable comes up a lot around here. just thought id throw down my opinions on each.

Rare: right now there arent a lot of rare thirdgens. maybe TTA's, B4C's, Firehawks, and 1LE's and thats about it. sure there are cars that have a rare combo like paint color/engine combo or whatever, but at this point the car wont really be valued more because of this rarity. the only people who would pay more for this car because of the "rare" options would be a true 3rd gen enthusiest. everyone else is gona look at it and say, ah its a crappy 80's camaro. So until a siginificant amount of time has passed, about 20 more years, nobody but 3rd gen fanciers will be really interesting in the rare 3rd gens. after that time general auto collectors may become interested in these cars and the value and desireability factor may rise.

Collectable: this is all a point of view and prediction issue. will a 2,000 mile all original 88 IROC be collectable some day, probably. but who knows. maybe 3rd gen RS camaros with TPI 305s will be wildly popular at some point in the future. its all guess work. there will always be the cars that most people will consider collectables, like the cars mentioned in the part on rare models. but on top of that the biggest engine, big gear, loaded factory cars also seem to be high on the collectability scale. sure a 69 SS 350 camaro is nice and in its own right a collectable, but a 69 SS 396 375hp car is much more collectable.

Desireability is totally subjective. Some people may desire a 84 SC just cause they used to have one or whatever. Some people may desire a 92 Formula 350 cause it was the highest HP 3rd gen formula available. What you find desireable someone else may not.

so all in all, the three terms are pretty close in their meanings but there are a few differences. just do what you want with your car and have fun with it.

88GTAChuck

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the info guys. I’ve just been having a hard time finding a 305Tpi 5sp with T-Tops at a decent price. I’ve been searching for a 91 or 92 but most seem to be autos or if it does have a 5sp there’s no T-Tops. I did come across an 88 IROC 5sp with T-Tops and wasn’t sure if this is something that I should consider. I know it all comes down to personal preference but I just haven’t seen every many 305Tpi 5sp with T-Tops out of any of the years.

The search continues.

FastElectrics

Just to toss in my.02 worth, I may have a 89 RS right now... But to me.. my desirable car would be a 1990 RS convertible, 729 made.
But I'd also consider any 90-92 Z28/IROC Convertible.

------------------
89 RS Camaro, LO3 305 TBI
Autometer Air/Fuel Ratio Guage
Cooling Fan Overide Switch
L69 Duel Snorkel Intake
Dynomax Ultra Flo SS Cat Back

Chevy Muscle

According to the Camaro White Book, in '90,'91 and '92.. you could NOT get RPO CC1 (T-Tops) with the G-92 option -OR- IROC/Z28 coupe with a 5-speed manual.

That is the combination that I was looking for... so I had to look to '89 and older.

If that 91 Z28 really came from the factory with T-Tops and a manual, then it is rare (according to the fact that the White book says it doesn't exist). That doesn't mean that the White Book is always right, ..... or maybe someone had the T-Tops done aftermarket.???

I'd get the '91, unless it's not worth what they're asking for

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1978 Y-88 TA (WS6, P6.6, T-Tops)
1993 Black 454SS
1989 Black IROC (TPI, T-Tops, LB9, 5-speed)

[This message has been edited by Chevy Muscle (edited October 14, 2001).]

85 T/A WS6

"Rare: right now there arent a lot of rare thirdgens."

I will accept that statement as soon as I see another 1985 or even a 1986 TA with Recaro Seats. Who else has one..... ?........? I didnt think so...

(Eddie Barra excepted )



Don



------------------

59,000 miles
5.0 TPI
WS6 (.92g)
3:27 Posi
Hi Flow MAF
K&N
My Car

JPrevost

How about the 89 TTA hardtop with cloth interior!!! Find me one of those! And yes they did make them.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

88GTAChuck

iTrader: (1)

You all have good points. I guess there are some cars out there that may be rarer than others based on options it may have. Some may want a Z28 over an RS, other may want T-Tops instead of a hardtop, and some may want options that weren’t available on cretin models. This is what makes searching for a third gen hard and tedious. Some may like the hunt and others may not. This is what most of us go through when searching for a specific model. Some of us get lucky and stumble in to great deals. My problem is finding what I’m looking for that isn’t three states away. I don’t mind road trips; it’s just hard to convince the wife why I need a third car. Oh well the hunt continues.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

As far as the recaro models; there is a reason it's rare and i'm sure it had to do with it's nice option price tag.

91 z28 305 manual with t-tops isn't that rare except for the fact that not many people ordered or wanted manuals.

I can't quote the white book but i'm sure that they are refering to the 91 350 debate in which there were not t-tops offered as well as no manual drivetrain. what a pitty

[This message has been edited by Kandied91z (edited October 16, 2001).]

FastElectrics

Hey Kandied91z, how can you tell eith on the VIN or RPO, if it is the recaro edition?
there is a bird at a yard here with seats that look like the ones posted.


------------------
89 RS Camaro, LO3 305 TBI
Autometer Air/Fuel Ratio Guage
Cooling Fan Overide Switch
L69 Duel Snorkel Intake
Dynomax Ultra Flo SS Cat Back

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Right now, you can go to any number of online sites that have national listings of used cars, in a matter of minutes you can find a thirdgen with just about any combination of options you want, I don't consider them rare until it gets to the point where you cant just click 5 links on a computer screen and make a phone call to acquire your ideal car.

88GTAChuck

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the suggestion Drew. I’ve been searching my local newspaper, Auto trader, autobytel, ebay, auto-rv, thirdgen and camaroz28 for sale sections.

If any of you have a better method so I can broaden my search I would appreciate it.

85 T/A WS6

Well here we have a cloth with T-Tops, not quite as rare but right next to it;

1989 Pace Car Documented Festival Firebird Trans Am GTA TTA, less than 9k on the dial, price? dont ask, showroom condition:





Don

85 T/A WS6

Look on the radiator tag, if it read "AS5"
it would be an 85 or 86 Recaro optioned TA.
Don

85 T/A WS6

errrr



[This message has been edited by 85 T/A WS6 (edited October 18, 2001).]

85 T/A WS6

AutoTrader has one, 26k



RARE! 1 of only 15 hardtop/cloth 20th Anniversary Turbo T/As ever produced! 920 miles, believed to be the lowest mile hardtop/cloth car in existence.100% factory original, interior still smells new, climate controlled garaged, window sticker, full documentation, owners kit, cover. Hood has minor ding damage. A rare opportunity to own a highly collectible and one of the rarest T/As ever built.


[This message has been edited by 85 T/A WS6 (edited October 18, 2001).]

MisterCamaro69

Hello all... cool site!
I really hate to say this, but you probably WILL have to sit on a 3rd gen for a long time before you see much appreciation in value...UNLESS it's a prototype, a 1LE, a Lingenfelter, (I'm thinking a clean B4C will do well also) a super clean convertible with unusual options, or a super lo miles garage queen. Corvettes and 1st gen Camaro's are a good example. GOBS of factory horsepower= $$$ in collector value. The ZL1's, COPO's, etc. are a rich man's toy, just like they were when new. BUT, they also brought the average cars up with them, just a whole lot slower. If you want to invest in a 3rd gen, buy a 1LE, if you want to drive a 3rd gen, buy what you can afford and smile They're depreciation, I think, has reached critical mass. If you keep it clean, you'll probably get your money back when you sell (except for highly customized). If you're 22 and have a good job, buy one of the last Camaro's with some unusual options, drive it and keep it clean, and if it don't cause a divorce later in life, hang on to it till you're 50 yrs old. The reason I say buy 02 is because there's a horsepower war going on just like the late 60's, and I'll be amazed if the tree huggers and congress let the automakers continue to raise the HP of new cars. (I hope I'm wrong.) If I haven't bored you to death yet, someone tell me... in the late 80's I had a 84 white Camaro, 305 HO and 5 spd with Recaro seats that on the back of the seats was stitched...
CAMARO
CAMARO
CAMARO
CAMARO
and it had thin red lower rocker stripes. Sound familiar? I've never seen a Recaro option on any other than the Firebirds.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

you guys casually dismissing the fact that third gens are rare.. that's just crazy. Anyone care to find me another 84 firebird S/E like the one I had? HO V6, 700R4, hardtop, beige/gold, gold N28 wheels, WS6 package. No? then how about a 1985 MR MSE T/A? sounds simple enough..? or another 1982 firebird S/E in Light Jadestone interior and exterior? I just know you're all "huh? WTF is that? never heard of it"
Fact is, your average 85-90 dime-a-dozen camaros and firebirds are just that, dime a dozen, and will continue to be that way till they become exctinct. But the models that are so rare that you've never even heard of them in the first place, those are truly rare. I'm not saying they have any really impressive market value, and fact is they don't, since the handful of unique early third gen's that exist are owned by people totally oblivious to what they have, and are bought by people totally oblivious to what they're getting. So they may not be valuable in a real market, but they are undeniably rare. If anyone can find me any of those 3 examples for sale, I'll admit I was wrong

rodgerunner

Guess I might as well get rid of my 87 Vert 20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition. You guys must be seeing a lot more than I do! With all due respect to Drew, I don't think you can find too many links advertizing these cars.

MisterCamaro69

Rare is cool, valuable is better. Be honest with yourself and ask "Why do I want to know how rare this option is?" IF you're honest with yourself, it'll most likely be because you think it's worth more. It really irks me when someone advertises a car for sale as "Rare only 2 made!" and asks for twice what it's worth because the factory put a fancy interior in only 2 AMC Gremlins a particular year.

I'm certainly NOT BY NO MEANS trying to bust anyones bubble, if you think it's the greatest car in the world because it's a unique paint scheme, then it is... BUT, if you're asking me if I'll pay you more for it, probably not. I had an 84 Z with an unusual interior, it was the COOLEST car in the world! (to me) Was it more valuable? Yes, but only slightly. The rarity will be more valuable as time goes on, but only if you keep it CLEEEEN and original.

RODGERUNNER's car is a good example, rare? Possibly.. Desirable? Definitely! Why is it desirable? (to me anyways) 1st because it looks original and VERY well taken care of, 2nd because it's a convertible, 3rd, because it's an Anniversary car. Here's the splitter (read; personal preference) If they built 1,000 cars exactly like it, same everything, color etc. and only one like it in purple, I'll take the red one. Now, if the purple one had a 350 with 5 speed, give me the purple one! Yeah, I know, no such animal....as far as WE know. But if it was documented and verifiable, heck, even if they built 500,000 of em, I'd take it in purple for the drivetrain.

Desirable to most is worth more than rarity. Elvis had a pink Cadillac from the factory for a gift, only one they did. You want it? or one of the 5,000 black ones just like it?

MRZ28HO

You guys don't get it huh? Every 3rd gen camaro (or firebird) is rare, ALL OF THEM. They are all one-of-one. Don't beleive, what me to prove it? Easy, show me another 3rd gen that has the same VIN number as mine? You won't, therefore mine is a one-of-one rare Camaro (of all the generations even).

TTA850

I have one

15 were made,14 are thought to still exist,and 5 are known(including mine)

here's my favorite pic of mine(#884)


I also have 1 of 187 cloth/t-top cars #124


And the most common(1 of 1,324)leather/t-top cars #850


I still need a leather/hardtop(24 made)to finish off my little collection.

Sorry to take this off topic,but back to rarity and value - if your looking for something nice or rare now is the time to get it cause nobody cares about them.Don't wait 10 or 20 years when rare option combo thirdgens are fetching 30 or 40K and become impossible to find.I guess thats why I'm buying my TTA's now and not when they actually become collector cars in 15 years or so.

Steve

raptoryfm660r

Third gens are not rare.

They never will be.

There will be more desirable models or low mileage cars but never rare.

There will be a time period in the future (15-20 years) when third gens will command higher prices (inventory will be far less) for original unmolested cars because the people that originally purchased them in the eighties will want a piece of there past again.

That's one reason why and as long as my car is not in the way I won't sell it. If I want to look at my past I can just go look in the garage and revisit it again.

Look at the Model T. Rare no way. They are becoming less desirable because the generation of people who owned and then later restored them are fast fading away.

Chet

Krazzycowgirl

I know where ones at lol We bought it for $2k then sold it for $3k to my brother in law whos fixing it up because it was Wrecked (thank *** it wasnt classified totalled)