Jason E

I wouldn't say that. Actually, I do care about performance...that's why I have a 350 IROC and an LB9 5 speed TA. As you probably know, the LB9 sticks are about as fast as a 350. I bought both for a specific reason...I wanted an example of each of the best "mainstream" powertrain offerings.

Admittedly, my 86 TA is much further down the totem pole with respect to performance, yet I still have fun driving it. Why do I have to not care about performance if I don't feel like hopping up 3 pristine, low-mileage examples of cars that aren't readily easy to find anymore? I'm happy with their stock performance. Sure, more is better, but I don't want to wreck the original flavor of them.

With respect to the RSs in question, indeed, the performance of them is more lacking, and hence why I'm not running to the aid (or purchase) of either one. However, I do feel they shouldn't be discarded or ignored because they make less ponies.

Besides, if I really want performance, I can just hop in my 4th gen and voila...

GTA50

Hey Jason E:

I know your dilema. A couple of years ago I had a young guy come by with a '84 T/A. The car needed some work, but for $1300 I said fine. I also looked at a '87 GTA (350 t-top - Canadian car), but didn't buy it as the car was't gone so far as to make it a part-out but would take a lot of work to restore.

The point is (and from your other threads) how much of another project do you want to take on? I want to find a nice TTA - I already have a '88 GTA (LB9/5-speed) in my shop plus the '84 outside. I don't need (and my wife says "don't want" - LOL) another project.

J91

I have read this post all the way through. My experience is this, back in the 70's and 80's we did not think much of muscle cars as there were plenty to go around, I remember people junking Buck GS 455 cars , GTO's and Challengers, etc. Somewhere around the mid to late 80's these cars and their market became valuable.
What I am saying is, while there were alot more of our cars made, many are already gone, any of our cars are worth saving. I would kill to have my 70 Challenger again, or my 68 Chevelle. Save your cars, in time they will be worth $$$, in time they will be rare, If you do not agree, just look at history it does not lie.
The way things are going I wonder if V8 muscle cars will survive as production models, hopefully they will? I am pushing 50yrs in age, many things have changed, one constant has always been the car culture w/ collectors of origtinals and customs. Save these cars people, they are worth it....

ZZ3 Z28

It's just not 3rd gens that you don't see on the road any more, nice ones that is. I seen a Ford Maverick a while back and I almost flipped out. Ford made millions of Pintos. Where are they?

When was the last time you seen anything from the 1980's? A Chevy Citation, a Chevette, a Mercury Capri, A Chrysler K-Car, Le Baron, a Dodge Omi or Laser, a Pontiac Fiero, a Cougar XR7 or XR4ti, or a Toyota Supra? The list goes on and on.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

It's an interesting discussion, with so many different points of view. I think it's very important, if not required, that you take personal experienceand emotion into account. Can we agree that this hobby for the most part is made up from people that do NOT drive these cars everyday? I drive a '05 Trailblazer everyday. So right off the bat, my Iroc is a car that I don't even need!!!! So help me define the term "worth". Are we talking money? ...because it's totally not WORTH it!!! But of course it's about seeing the car come to life, driving the car I built with my own hands, meeting fellow enthusiasts at shows and online etc. etc. ...so ultimately it's completely worth it!!!!!

....every car falls into that category. If every first gen Copo ZL1 was rounded up and crushed, we have this huge hobby wide outcry, from GM to Ford to Mopar enthusiast alike, etc. etc., posts would pop up on every message board, there would be talk at every cruise in.... ...and then.... ....a few weeks later, you get up for work like you do everyday, turn wrenches on YOUR car like always, and ultimately......nothing would really be any different.

99% percent of us can realistically only afford one "extra" car. Sure, some of us have 3 beaters that we may someday fix up, and some of us have the income to have multiple nice muscle/exotic/toy cars, but for most, it's just 1 car. I don't have the luxury of having it all. I can be original, or I can modify to my taste. Personally I love the look of my Iroc, but not the performance. Sure, it's just opinion, but if you only have 1 car, you have to make choices. sometimes that's hard!!! ...my point here, to go back to the OP, and whether the car is worth saving???? Dear lord no!!!!!! Honestly, you couldn't pay me to take the car. Financially you'll never see your money. From a hobby standpoint, it'll never be sought after in "original" form. ....BUT....to you, who can say? If it's worth it to YOU, and you can make it something you like, and you can afford to do so, then rock on! No need to ask us what WE think!!!!!!!!

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

These cars are worth restoring NOW because they are cheap NOW and they will be worth more money LATER. These cars are getting more and more rare and more people are desiring them. Soon when there are few of them left their price is going to skyrocket. They won't be worth as much as some of the cars from the 60s and early 70s, but they will eventually go up in price. Now Is the time to buy and restore because right now it's cheap to do so (In comparison to what it will be when parts are few and demand is high). So they are worth buying and restoring NOW because it will pay off LATER

KMK454

That doesn't even look that hard to fix now that I can see the pictures... refinish the hood, new nose piece, and get a body shop to pull/shape the fender straight. I'd just check for some frame twist since you said a tree fell on it. Get a professional shop to check that.

If the interior is trashed, well, that's tough. Repro cloth seat covers and some of the other parts are decent, but the aftermarket hasn't come to the level that it has for the 1st gens.

Since it's an RS this would make a great LSx sleeper.

Jason E

Well put, actually. To be honest, that logic is what led me to buy my 2 Trans Ams. I would've bought my IROC regardless of market conditions, because it was THE car I wanted at THE time I had the cash. The other two? I could've bought them anytime...but to me, a 30k mile TPI TA that needed paint and some odds and ends for $3,000, and a 26k mile TPI 5 speed t-top WS6 Trans Am that needs about $1,000 in touch-up paintwork, a tune up and needed tires for $6,800? In both cases, the market without a doubt helped me get 2 great deals I will enjoy for years to come. My WS6 was only on the market for 2 weeks because she priced it cheap (was asking $7,500, which was fair to begin with)...my 86 was on the market for over a year, and no one could look past the paint job.

As for the subject car? I'm going to continue to toss it around, but I think I'm going to pass. My wife offered to buy it for me for Christmas, but its just one more headache, and more resources taken away from the ones I have. My WS6, to meet my picky standards, needs both bumpers, the hood and decklid resprayed (bumpers are darker than the rest of the car, hood and decklid have some small acid water marks in them you can see in certain light), and the replacement spoiler I have painted and installed. I would also like to put 4 new speakers and my Alpine amp in it, minimally. My 86 is getting a 145 amp Powermaster alternator, an Optima battery, then the system from hell installed (2 Xtant amps, Eclipse Aluminum 10" sub, either Boston Pro60SEs or SPZ60s all the way around, installed in the front with custom kick panels) after I tint the windows. I'm also considering a throatier exhaust, and MAYBE a few light bolt ons...I seriously need to consider SFCs and an STB for it, as I plan to drive it 3,000 miles or so next year, and will on a regular basis.

Its hard for me to figure out what to do, because I don't wanna wreck the original flavor of it. I don't think tint, a nice stereo mostly hidden in the trunk, and a nice exhaust are too much "chopping" up...

Jason E

One final thought on the RS. I HAVE considered if I bought it for $1,500, the same shop that painted my TA could paint this one for $3,000, I could re-do the wheels for $500, and for $5,000 it looks like brand new on the outside. The interior, by having a shop replace the carpet, headliner and fix the seat, would probably cost me another $1,000 with labor. So for $6,000, it starts looking nice.

But then, I haven't touched anything mechanically. Touching on KMK's post, I was thinking of the sleeper aspect, and considered throwing in a GMPP turnkey crate motor with new everything, build the tranny etc...and then I have a $10,000 RS. For $5,000 more, I could have a TTA

After my $14,000 '91 RS debacle, as much as I wanna save this thing, I'm having a tough time with this one....I think I'm going to pass. But if ANYONE here has a slight interest in it, please PM me...the owner is a great guy, has all the documentation since '91 on it, and I'd love to help find it a home.

Project-RS

iTrader: (1)

i know how you feel. im into my RS for 7,000 in motor alone and another 4,000 in custom work. so for 11,000 its the way my pic is.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I think it's as far as the reference car goes that's a wise decision. High miles and needs allot of work? There are still allot of these cars you could buy and restore. I think an Iroc-Zs, any Z28, TTAs, or any GTAs are good investments. Those are are the Iconic thirdgens collectors and gear heads alike are going to go for.

burnout88

That is the truth. I have been looking for a mint fog light switch bezel because my lettering is worn. Cannot find the piece anywhere!! I have been looking for over 5 years.

I would love to recover my seats with the OEM beechwood fabric not that aftermarket junk but also cannot find the fabric anywhere. The interior has been the hardest part of my restore.

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

It depends how much it is worth to you to drive a car YOU really enjoy...or the price you put on taking the car to even local car shows and spending time talking with people who remember driving one of these in their younger years...but that's just my opinion. I'm restoring my car because of what it is to me. Others restore their car with a strict financial perspective in mind. While others do it for a combination of the two. You seem to be the later, but you have to remember when considering the price of restoring it, take into consideration your enjoyment as well.

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

Finding beechwood interior parts stinks. I've been looking for rear seatbelt covers (the 88 didn't have these) for years. No luck. I'll keep an eye open for these parts for you. I go to FL junk yards a lot, and these cars are pretty common here in scrap yards. Finding them in mint condition, that's another issue however.

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

Keep an eye out for me too on the Beachwood. Mine is all good except driver's seat has a couple issues. A passenger seat would work.

ON ANOTHER NOTE. Values - I was thinking last night. There was a time that the early Mustangs were highly collected and high value then slowly over the years the Camaro came out on top. The reason is, styling and design. The Camaro was designed better overall and easier to work on.
With the 3rd gen Camaro vs the Fox body Mustang - granted the FOx body has a huge following but I have owned a Fox body and they are not at all comfortable to drive. I am 6'1" and they never seemed to fit me right and hated the interior. I do like the 3rd gen much more but people will determine what comes out on top. I just think the Fox body pulled out as being the car to race on the street whereas the Camaro was kind of forgotten about. Time will tell but my eggs would be in a mint original Fox body (tough to find that hasn't been modified) or a clean 3rd Gen. We know no one wants the Vettes from this time period and what else is out there?

Linson

i have both - an 89 5.0 and an 89 Firebird. i'm 5'9" and the Mustang seems undersized. the seat does slide back far enough as far as leg room - even if i were taller. but, everything else, like inside door handles, feels miniature. it's almost like the car was specifically designed for women.

obviously the F-bodies have more appealing styling anywhere but a Fox Body Forum. the F-bodies have a somewhat nicer interior as well, in-so-much as black plastic looks a little nicer than grey plastic. the interior components on the F-Bodies are more brittle and harder to replace though. the Mustangs ARE a little more utilitarian in that they ride higer, have a little more usable trunk/hatchback space, and they are easier to get in and out of - especially for rear passengers. another nice feature on the Mustangs (on mine anyway) is that it comes equiped with/for six round speakers instead of only four oblong speakers. i have found my 5.0 fairly easy to work on too - more so than my Formula. i'll take an LX over a GT any day. My LX has been a solid little car. one negative that you wouldnt expect from such a small, seemingly nimble car is that the steering radius sucks. i can make tighter turns in my truck - while towing a trailer.

with the possible exception of the late '70s, i believe that Mustangs have always been much more popular than the F-Bodies - even in times of markedly superior F-Body performance (the 90's). car mags have always attributed this to the somewhat more daily driver practicallity of the Mustang. i have always tended to believe that it is because of name/brand recognition. if a guy wants to get girls, he might do well to get the car that is associated with 'a pony.' there are also a lot of women car buyers - and i'm telling you that pony **** is embedded deep within a woman's psyche from the time she's in diapers. what car do you think most women are going to opt for - and steer their mate to.

anyways - back on topic: i think that a solid F-body is already a more valueble find than a Mustang in similar condition. and, sorry, but in that equation, i dont mean RS's, Berlinettas, and base model Firebirds. 5.0's had/have the benefit of being homogenously top end performance cars. but, yeah, i think F-Bodies are definitely worth more. i think its a combination of rareity and that the styling is begining to be appreciated.

one last thing: i dont think that there is anything wrong with L98 Vettes. seems like they can be had at a good value. also, obviously there are the GNX's/T-Type Regals from that time period - and also good fodder for like a 383 or some other engine swap are the SS Monte Carlos from the 80's.

JeepOnRock

I spent a few years in a high-end restoration shop (a very long time ago). And there was a pattern that I noticed. At that time, Shelby Mustang values were exploding, early Ferrari values were doing the same thing... as well as early to mid-60s Corvettes. Later muscle cars hadn't hit a stride yet.

One could pick up Boss 302 Mustangs, Z28s and SS Chevelles for (comparatively) little money. Early 70s cars, with the exception of a few freaks like the Superbirds, were priced like dirt.

A few years later ,the values on those started to shoot up. The (much) earlier cars started to erode in value.

There is a wave pattern to car values. The wave is 25-50 years after production. There are always some outliers... rare optioned cars and those that are true icon/dream cars... but for the most part, the pattern seems to hold.

When people get to a point in their lives when they can buy the (then new) cars they dreamed about in high school, they do. Their dream machines many be on a variety of levels... some will buy a Ferrari F40, while others will buy a similar vintage Mustang GT or IROC Camaro (even though they ALSO dreamed of owning the Ferrari).

The cars with the highest performance and rarest options will be the ones leading the curves (1LE cars are an example). Highest output engines, convertibles, manual transmissions, special suspensions... then later, rare colors, odd combinations and even low production but less desirable models.

As those people with the fond memories of the cars of their youth leave the market, the values start back down... leaving a few cars high on the mountain of values because of the attention they gained. Think of Fuel Injected 57 Chevy Bel Aire convertibles as an example.

Of course, part of it is that the cost of properly restoring a 68 Z28 and a 67 6 cyl Camaro aren't THAT much different. The Z28s are all restored first (those that are economically realistic). Later, when the supply of desirable cars is used up, people start looking at the less desirable cars.

Right now we are seeing the values of the rarer versions of 3rd Gens moving up a bit. IROC, WS6, and 1LE cars are leading the charge. Oddly, at the same time, there will be an increase in value of cars that are "properly" modified.

Look for mid-late 80s "Muscle Cars" to increase in value during the next economic boom. I would bet that there will be magazine articles touting the "investment quality" of some of the rarer cars... like 1LEs and SVO Mustangs... in near perfect condition.

Or I could be completely wrong.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Took the words right out of my mouth.

This right here is absolutely ridiculous. Who are you to decide what kind of car people are allowed to like? Buying a car because it may go up in value or because everyone else also likes it is what SHOULDN'T be done. A person should buy a car because they LIKE it, or because they simply WANT to fix it up. If I want to buy a crappy, rusted, wore out base model third gen to restore, that's nobody's business but my own. Just because I don't give a rat's a$$ about what the general public thinks about the car, doesn't mean my decision is wrong.

Thank you. Any one of those cars is worth restoring if you like it.

Linson

ridiculous, is it? you seem to forget that the dude asked a question. he solicited peoples' opinions. who are YOU to decide who's opinions are valid and who's arent? my opinions, btw, are grounded in 15 years of F-body-dom. if somebody just WANTS to fix up a beater, why bother asking peoples opinions on whether its worth it or not? i dont recall shitting on anyone else's opinion in this thread (as you have done to mine -- my opinion that is grounded in 15 years of F-bodies and project cars.)

so, speaking from experience, and the experience of knowing what the typical street performance restoration entails, my opinion is that ANYBODY would be FAR BETTER OFF picking up one of the higer end models (IROC/TA/Formula.) and i stand by that, whether it makes some people upset or not. why do i have to get on the bandwagon that thinks that every beater car that says Camaro on it is worth restoring - to original specs - when the original specs were dismal.

could an IROC-Z hold its own against a 5.0 Mustang? Stock for stock those 5.7 liter cars were slightly faster than the 5.0's. and the 5 liter 5-speed F-bodies also held their own. so why is it that the narrative that seems to be remembered by the general public is that the 5.0's were fast little cars that always beat the **** outta the F-bodies, which were slow pieces of crap? was it because 4 outta 5 Camaros on the street were RS-types?

but youre right though, if you want to "buy a crappy, rusted, wore out base model third gen to restore, that's nobody's business but [your] own." but if youre going to ask my opinion on whether or not its worth it (in time/money/and commeansurate the the likely finished product) i'll give you my honest opinion that it probably is NOT worth it. in fact, i'm such a nice guy, i'll even explain the reasons why. and what i mean by that is that (like a man) i am offering analytical reasoning and logic. and you, (like a woman) are making emotional platitudes and truisms. other people have offered some logical reasons why RS's and BMF's (base model Firebirds) in any condition might be worth snatching up. those reasons involve the Muscle Car cycle where lower end models become sought after once the top end models become scarce. i think they have a point. i just think it is overly far-sighted in the here and now, when one can probably find an higher end model for not toooooo much more money. so while i dont agree with them, it is a conversation i can work with. all this... wanting to blast me for not liking the lowly base model cars...all this "who are you to say what's this?" and "if i like a car its my own damn business!" and whatnot - thats really not a conversation. that's you making an emotional argument.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Performance DOES NOT dictate if a car is worth restoring. I'm not going to go through and counter point everything you have said because I have a feeling it will just be a waste of time.

And yes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you basically have the opinion of a site troll. What you have basically said is "it's just an RS, it deserves to die and anyone who likes a third gen that's not a performance model is wrong". You're just begging for someone here to give you are hard time.

BTW, I think you need to go back and read the thread title again. It's not a question of "if", but rather "when".

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

No one cares about plain RS/Berts/Base 3rdgens. Even then finding a unmolested Iroc/GTA/T/A is hard to find since around here Teenagers like scooping them up and ripping stuff out since they think it makes them fast.

I see them being worth something in 5+ years. Right now they are raising in price but its due to what I said above.


In the end these cars are gonna be worth saving when theres less of them on the road.

Linson

okay. and youre right, i DO have a tendency to not be able to rest until i am 100% positive that somebody who calls me out understands EXACTLY where i am coming from. not trying to be a troll.

to that end, i'm not going to say that you have to address every counter point, but i mean, did you read them? are they not valid? you come at me like ive done or said something wrong, but then when i explain or defend my position, you dont wish to waste your time with it?

and to directly answer the question "as to when" a car like that will be worth restoring, i think its going to be a very long time. to the right buyer i can probably get 10-11 thousand for my 30,000 mile Formula 350. and i'm already into it for easily 16 thousand if you count the initial investment for the car. i honestly think that these cars should be enjoyed right now rather than invested in.

Linson

Chicago? is that where youre from? is that where there's 3rd gens everywhere? i always here about these cars being common, but i just dont see them around.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Yes I did read everything, some things I can see your point, some things I don't, and others I think are irrelevant. And I completely agree, are car should not be invested in... but it's not an investment if you're not in it for the money. If you dump money into a car that you like, to fix it up or restore it, then it's a hobby.

What irks me the most about your original post is that you seemingly (at least to me) present your opinion as a fact. That may not be how you meant it, but that's how I took it.

Linson

alright, well let me just do this one thing and i wont keep beating you over the head with this. but check this out, allow me to disect my original post:

Quote:

to be very honest with you, the car in the pictures is a piece of ****.

it is a POS. objectively speaking, that car is a POS. so was my first Firebird when I bought it, and so was my black 89 Formula 350. thank God I didnt dump more money into that one.

it shouldnt be restored - ever.

maybe that was a little harsh, but really i was just trying to help steer the guy from making a bad choice.

cars like that are the reason why 3rd gens overall dont get any respect. low output motors, open differentials, 2.73 gears...these are the cars that were getting spanked by 5.0's. and in the mind of the general public, it must've been all the 3rd gens that were getting spanked, and that were inferior.

this may just be my opinion, but it is grounded in my experience, just listening to non-third gen lovers talk. 4 out of 5 Camaros were low output. people remember the name IROC, but they think that the RS's were IROCs and the IROCs were RS's.

MY Opinion: generally, if it doesnt say IROC, Formula, or Trans Am somewhere on the side of it, then it probably shouldnt be restored. on the other hand, if you want to do a big block conversion (ya know, something with a 6" cowel hood), or otherwise build a track car, even an LSx conversion, or any one-off project, then yeah, an 84 Berlinetta or an 86 or 88 RS is perfectly good fodder for that.

it says right there that it is just my opinion and mine alone, so i dont see how that can be construed as meant to be gospel.

honestly, if you want 3rd Gens to get the respect that they deserve, lets not hoist up the crappy ones as poster children for our cause.

yes, i am tired of the disrespect that i see people giving the 3rd gens. and from a performance standpoint (and asthetic standpoint) a MUCH stronger case can be made - the case that the critics have been mistaken - can be made for the cars that bear the mark of Formula, Trans Am, GTA, and IROC.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I just have two things I want to say:

1. I very much like the car in the first post and it would be a great starting point compared to a couple I currently have to work with.

2. These cars didn't get their reputation because they got beat by Mustangs. Remember, there was a boatload of 4 banger Mustangs too. These cars got their reputation because of their owners. Only keeping around the performance models isn't going to change the reputation either. There has been a lot of time that has gone by since they were new, and there's quite a few hopped-up base cars that can be seen at many car shows/drag events now.

So in the end, you have your opinion and I have mine... but we can both agree that cars are not investments.

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

I have to agree with some of the base models not going to increase in value nearly as quickly as the higher end models. Usually if the sticker price was higher, value goes higher.
In this cae on this RS - if the price was right I would buy it. I do not think the price is a steal on it. I realize it is silver but I personally think (and I think the majority would agree) that putting the money into a more desirde model would be more rewarding in time.Locally on our CL here, there are three IROCs now that are all n the $1000 - $1500 range. They all need some work but I would much rather look at an IROC for $1500 than a RS in the same shape for the same money. Each car is a case by case basis but look at part out prices now - what is worth more parted out? Who cares what the future holds because no one knows for sure. If someone gave me $2000 and to buy a car for a future investment it would be an IROC, WS6 or Formula 350 , not an RS, not Berlinetta and not a base Firebird.
Put the money aside, look for a good deal on ne that is a more sought after model with some more of the mainstream known options. When I bought my "camaro" (it is a 5.7 IROC with t-tops) I told a few freinds I bought a Camaro. They are not all GM guys BUT some of the first questions were; 1. Is it an IROC? 2. Is it a 5.7? 3. Does it have T-Tops? 4. Is it a stick? Not is it a V-8? Convertible or RS. If this RS was a vert I would say grab it and fix it. You should be able to find one cheaper and in better shape if you wait.

bitchin_buick

With all do respect, talk about being on the fence! I have seen many threads on this forum about how you are a waste if you let a third rot in a junkyard, regardless the make. And I quote "We must, save, restore, save, that's a shame, who would do that, ect.... ect.... ect. Many guys are purist, so if your a purist then this may not work for you that should be the conclusion. However, at car shows a higher percentage of cars are not original! RS can easily be modded! The car in the OP is fully restartable worth it or not. Get em' while you can kids cause as with my 82' pokey Regal I can't find crap here in N.W. Ohio. A good building block is tough to find, well that time will be here soon for the third Gen junkies soon. Abundance now, tomorrow? In 10 years everybody will be crying cause this guy may let this car go.........

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

MARKED FOR 10 YEARS FROM TODAY to see what was said - Do what you want. Your money, your time, your personal reward.

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

This is a good statement to go by in a hobby such as ours. The way a car is customized/altered is so subjective. I agree the performance models should have a chance to be saved but their worth depends greatly on the presence of the original drivetrain. This to me only changes if the 3rd Gen in question was a high end model or very unusually equipped. The car in question in this post is a run of the mill RS that I would rather see an LSx conversion ,or crate motor, done to than a Z28 or T/A. And thus saving the car in total if done properly. But this is still can be an expensive endeavour depending on how far it's taken. Other than the frontal damage the body looks straight. Personally I would have no problem upgrading the drivetrain on a 3rd Gen like this. I would much rather do so than to my number's matching '83 CFI Z28. Though there's many that would discard the CFI at first chance.

jediknight

I feel your pain.. I have an 82 Z that has front-end damage and has been sidelined for years. Though I want to restore it I have an issue with what it will now cost in both times and actual funds to bring it back to worthy condition.

I would sell it to someone who wants to restore but am also contemplating pulling it in the garage and starting the restoration.

383 rs

You have got to be talking about a guy I work with in Warner Robins. He has had around 6 in the past year. I bought an 85 t top car from him. He paid 3,000 for it and couldnt get it "running" right. I bought it off of him for $350 . I drove it home. i kept some stuff and parted out for around $2200 lol.

mav75

There are a lot of very strong opinions, and quite a few harsh words, but not too much love as this thread goes on.

Car collecting and restoration has always been a very subjective hobby. If there isn't an unspoken agreement to disagree on differing opinions, then the fun disappears.

My take on this whole debate is that unless you have mega bucks and are willing to spend top dollar on a collector car that can't be driven or its value will go right out the exhaust pipes, going into this to make money is a really bad idea.

Having said that, here are my on some of the posts I liked the best:

I bought my Trans Am from its original and only owner. He didn't change a thing, and that's why the car was (and still is) so valuable to me. I want to preserve its originality and make the bare minimum of improvements. With the possible exception of adding a Wonderbar and SFC's (and that would only be to protect/maintain structural integrity), a failed stock part will be replaced with a failed stock part. I've got a 305 TPI, and I'm fine with that. I bought the car to enjoy cruising in it, not to go fast and win races. If I wanted speed and handling, I'd have bought a Z, a (new) 5.0, or a 5th Gen SS.

A true classic collector wants a numbers matching original, not a restomod.

I wanted the 80's experience I missed out on the first time. By no means are these cars perfect. Because my Trans Am's not a DD, I kind of like my car's imperfections, unless they leave me on the shoulder waiting for a tow truck!

Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.

I agree mostly, but doesn't the date of a frame off or rotisserie restoration impact a vehicle's value? A freshly done restoration is more of a commodity than one that's 10 or 15 years old, right?

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Not nessicarally. So long as it apears to have been restored yesterday, wether it was yesterday or 10 years ago, if it apears like it did out of the factory it's worth some $$$. However, if it looks like it was restored 10 years ago it will def. be worth less.

myzblubyu

[





$750 would be a good price.... I paid $1,400 for my '90 IROC and it needed some work. After $3,000 invested in parts and upgrades I still need a paintjob. It's almost time to pull out my soda blaster and get it ready for the booth. It helps if you own tools and have the knowledge to do your own repairs, otherwise it can get expensive. Throw a nice crate motor in it and you will have a sleeper. Clean 3rd gens are getting harder to come by and the value is slowly climbing....

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

I totally agree, my bird is 2 years younger than me and everywhere I go people always come talk to me about how they loved cars like these and the memories it brought them. mostly parents of my friends lol. My car has no mods, all stock and for the most part is clean.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Wheres theres 3rd gens being parted everywhere? Yes sir. I do happen to see about 15-20 thirdgens every summer. All mostly RS Camaro beaters.

I see more being parted out then driven around.

Badazzbird

Keep in mind that it is safe to say that most people that have these cars including myself are really true fans of these cars. We may love them in different ways and for different reasons but the passion to care for these cars are one in the same. Trust me when I say that most cars in general are bad investments and that car guys are fully aware of this fact... So why do we spend money on something that is not "statisticly" worth it?? There are a lot of reason I can give you but, the one that we all share is PASSION. Taking something that is undervalued and making it something that everyone desires.. To me that is the coolest s**t in the world. My car my never be "statisticly" valuble, but I love it just the same and alway will.. I'm sure a lot of third gen guys feel the same....

mav75

I know I do!

lethaldomestics

The way i have been seeing these cars stock up in the junk yard lately (like never before) i give it ten years. I can account for at least 40 junkers across CA, some IROCS, gtas ect in the past year alone. People cant fix them, Playaround money is hard to come by these days (at least for me). Although rarity does not necessarily mean high worth, i know if there were only a few on the planet i would pay through my teeth to have one. Luckily I don't have too. I can honestly say that third gen Camaros and Firebirds are unique and there is no other car in the world like them.

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

Strange. I own one of those "crappy ones" that was a "piece of ****. it shouldnt be restored - ever. cars like that are the reason why 3rd gens overall dont get any respect." I did end up restoring it - a '90 V6 with the only upgrade being T-tops and the aero package. I get great comments all the time (and it even isn't fully restored - still needs a better paint job and the inside doors are bare). Just this weekend at a gas station, the man across the pump said to me "you just don't see them like that anymore." Not once has anyone ever asked to look under the hood. Didn't realize my inferior V6 was dragging the hobby down and embarrassing people.

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

I don't think anyone should take anything personally. There have been no personal attacks just speculation as to what cars will be most sought after down the road and even right now. The thing is: people will say the IROC is junk if they have something more sought after from the 80's. Yes, the Grand National people probably think the IROC is a bad investment, so what, my feelings are not hurt. Some people think that ANY Camaro is the greatest car.... it is all opinion and there are 1000's of choices daily of what you want to invest your time and money in. Maybe your RS will be sold so you can collect Beanie Babies - it is your choice and whatever makes you happy. The question was- Is THIS car worth saving. Some say "yes" and some say "no". I don't think asking an open-ended question should have a one-word response. The dialogue has had good arguments to both answers and ultimately it is one person's money, time and effort. Is it worth it to you is ALL that matters.

Linson

thanks, bro. sheesh!

also, if you look at what i'm saying here:

i'm not saying that a low end, base type car shouldnt be fixed up. just that a performance-minded person such as myself does not see the sense in restoring said car to factory specs.

mav75

This thread is getting a little bit more heated than it needs to be. There are going to be as many opinions on this subject as there are ThirdGens currently in existence (roadworthy or not). Every ThirdGen is as individual as its owner, and is therefore a reflection of its owner's personality and preferences. The saying "One man's meat is another man's poison" definitely applies here.

Every argument and opinion has its merits, no matter what your point of view is. Additionally, every argument and opinion deserves respect, no matter what your point of view is. As this thread continues, I'd like to see a little more respect put forth to one another. It's one of the main things that keeps me logging onto TGO every day.

Having said that, I'd like to offer the following opinion that I think applies to all of us and (I believe) can't be disproven: No matter what works for you, or what you drive, the only thing that is going to make or break our hobby is how well we treat and maintain our cars. That will be the true representation of the future of the hobby and of ThirdGens in general.

Thank you. That is all. Stepping down from the soap box now.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I completely agree, if a base model needs restoration, doing a factory, OEM style restoration is somewhat pointless. To me base model cars are great fodder for engine swaps and drivetrain whizbangery. You preserve the nice factory performance cars, and make the base model cars into all they could be. I'd rather put an LS1/T56 into an 89 RS than into a 92 Z28.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Yup. I say the most collectable/nestalgic cars are IROCS, Z28s, GTAs, TTAs especially, and Early T/As (like 82-84).

florida_gators

iTrader: (2)

Right 100%. And of course nothing personal taken. If I cared about what other people thought about my car's performance I wouldn't have fixed it up. There was an undertone of sarcasm in my post--probably doesn't come across clear in writing. Just illustrating the point that you cannot lump the 5.0+ cars as great and 5.0- cars as embarrassing junk that takes a series of ******s to describe. This post did definitively stray from giving advice about this specific car to all 3rd Gens in general whether people will admit it or not.

KMK454

Is this one worth restoring?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bile-unit.html

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

^^^Typical third gen owner.

bitchin_buick

Going back to the OP's question.... Simple answer: Buy now cause in ten years the market will go up due to 3RD's that meet their maker now depleting the abundance..... By Simple economics. Rules of "supply and demand" go into effect.>> >> The OP's question is unintentionally loaded.<< << The answer is buy now, sell later. This car may look like a heap of crap now but will be sought out before we know it.We are all bickering unintentionally about the same thing. We all have great intentions for 3rd's just different approaches on how to get to that point.......... So what gives?