puma1552

iTrader: (1)

What gives is rattle can Rustoleum paint job after tractor paint roller paint job.

Everyone has good intentions, but nobody has any money or at the very least can just not mess with the cars. Everyone thinks they can build a show car for $50 and ends up with a $3 beater that never had a chance.

The cars aren't worth anything because we haven't valued them worth anything. The only cars worth anything are the standard low-mileage originals. Unfortunately since everyone thinks these will be muscle car era #2, there are plenty of those cars to go around, which keeps the values of all others down. As long as there is a substantial supply of low-mile originals, the other cars values will forever be suppressed.

My car's nice, but nobody here would touch it for $6k-$7k. You've got the 4% low mileage crowd that wouldn't touch it, then you have the other 95% that wouldn't pay more than $3 for my car. Then you've got 1% of people with high mileage treasures that are in excellent shape, like myself, who are stuck in purgatory if they were to want to sell; not virgin enough for the 4%, not cheap enough for the 95%. If anything, cars like mine are the hardest sells.

Jason E

^^This approach is exactly why my RS sat in the garage for nearly all of 2009. I didn't have the money to finish the interior right, so it sat until I could. The problem is, most people don't have that commitment to these cars...

Mrs.Crasher0083

All 3rd Gens are worth saving if ya ask me. As to when theyll be worth a lot of money? Only time will tell. But think how people are over a 69. Someday thatll be how the 3rd Gens are.

NCGuy68

There are some 3rd Gens worth saving and the others for parts. But I don't think any 3rdgen will ever be as popular as a 69 - they have already stood the test of time.

mav75

Well...there's objective value and subjective value. Objectively, going off AutoTrader, Hemmings, NADA, et. al., I could easily get around $8,500 - $9,000 for my car. Subjectively, at least one zero (maybe two) would have to be tacked onto those figures for anyone to have a snowball's chance in hell of prying the title out of my cold, dead fingers.

87rattler

A car's value is worth what a buyer is willing to pay.

For me, I owned an 87 Iroc-Z28 from when I was 19 until I let it go, when I was 37. It was metallic flame red w/ gold trim, 350 T-top.(all original). I had a lot of fun with the car (300,000 km's)and regreted getting rid of it the moment it went on the trailer. Now I am 40 and if someone offered me the same car restored to original condition and low mileage, I may be tempted to part $20-30 G's. Does this mean it's worth that to everybody, (of course not). But i would rather have my 87 Iroc back, than any 5th gen V6'er for the same price.

P.S. I'm am back in the seat of an 87 Iroc (black), which i would like to do a Spike-Z style (LSX) resto. not a full on original resto.

maves75

If I am happy with whatever car at whatever price I paid that's enough for me. Sure, low mile clean cars are great, and will hold their value, but if you aren't buying to sell what's that matter? Fifteen years I bought and sold cars to make money. Today, I am more interested in keepers. If a person has the funds, and wants a certain car what's wrong with that? we don't own these things anyway. eventually, they will belong to someone else. Two weeks before he died my Dad gave $18,500.00 for a 67 Camaro(just a coupe with 327 and 'glide) with 76k on it. I felt he paid too much, but he was so happy with it, and that's the main thing. I would not sell it at any price, because even though I would rather have my Dad over any object, it was his. I am prolly not alone. These days emotions play a big part in my vehicle buying. I am trying to buy a one owner 82 with assorted aches and pains, and I hope I get it before someone else does, because it's the one I want. Simple as that. I had a point, I swear!! I guess the bottom line I couldn't state more directly is: Let each man make his own decision.If your needs are tended to, then your wants can be addressed. 2 grand for that 88 isn't bad, you should see the junk I have happily purchased for more LOL! I buy high and sell low when it's for my own personal use..too funny.

bitchin_buick

Supply and Demand will come around. I grew up in the 70/80's, You know how many G-Body's where on the road back then(Cutlass,Regal,Monte,Grand Prix,Malibu,El Camino and the beloved GN?) Even thru the 90's? Good luck finding a G-Body now to use as a platform. I have seen G-Body's with a V6/NA and need restoration love go for 4-9 Grand...... Maybe the answer to the OP's question should be bumped back to 20 years, from 10? The only point I was trying to make without arguing is to buy now cause wheather you doubt it or not cost on theese rattle can cars will go up as will yours! I paid 2,500 for My Wimpy V6/Na Regal a few years ago and bet I could double and push 6 Grand for my 82'. Yes I have seen it done time and again, even over a non sports car G-Body with a V6/NA. You have a great car Puma, always admired your car. Rattle can or not you will have to wait for the value to go up on yours while others run theirs into the ground.....

Jason E

Honestly, there is a ton of truth to that. I am absolutely in the 4%, and hate the other 95% for being such cheap asses that we all together cannot advance the entire species, so to speak.

However, I had a 1% car in my 119k mike '91 RS, and I sold it for nearly $8k in less than 2 weeks. If you have a nice one, and you put it in front of the right person, often it can move quickly...

eseibel67

Look at it this way. How about a 73 Z28 in the 1% category above?

It might be a good time to be a BUYER for an excellent condition, high mileage third gen.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

One thing for sure, 3rd gens aren't going to get any cheaper. Nice ones are fetching some respectable bucks. The only problem with this car is, that it'll cost just as much to fix up as a TPI/5 speed IROC or GTA.

Years from now, I guarantee you, that people will be talking about the days when you could get a pretty solid and original '89 Camaro for less that $2K - with one of those old Gen 1 smallblock Chevy V8's even.

Jason E

True on all counts. I think $1,500 is dirt cheap, but to fix it up I am indeed looking at IROC or GTA money. Like I said, I pretty much gave up on this one, personally, but I hope someone else doesn't...

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

I paid $18.600 for mine,and that was a good price.But that was 26 years ago.It will be another 26 years when I might get my money back.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

Eh, I don't think so. The '69s started to take off in value around 1984. They were only 15 years old when that started. The newest 3rd Gen is now nearly 20, and we're not seeing signs of it.

The primary reasons I think are a large affluent baby boomer population which grew up with them, a very long period of economic prosperity, and a media which treated them as icons on film and television.

Gen X isn't as influential as the Boomers. And as to future prosperity, just go look at your 401(k) or Zillow.com. I don't think the next 25 years are going to be like the last 25 years, let's put it that way. And the media isn't kind to these cars. Dwight drives one in The Office (no doubt intended as a joke) and I think the white trash boyfriend in Baby Mama had one. Like it or not, they have a white trash and ****** reputation.

I definitely think the cars are worth preserving but I don't think you'll ever see a 3rd Gen at the same price levels as the 1st Gens.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Someone needs to make a movie that puts thirdgens in a good light.

mav75

A couple of points:

• True, the '92s are older now than the '69s were in '84, but the 1st Gens were only in production for only 3 years, as opposed to the 10 year run that the ThirdGens had. It's late and I'm too lazy to look up actual production numbers, but the basic law of supply and demand comes into mind.
• Other than the movie "Better Off Dead", I'm having trouble thinking of a movie (or TV show) where a 1st Gen had a prominent role. I'm sure there are examples, but without any effort I can think of Smokey and the Bandit, Dazed & Confused, The Rockford Files (yeah, big deal...lol), and a little TV show from the '80s called Knight Rider.
• As much as I hate to admit it, I can't really poke any holes in this paragraph.
• You're right...now. But I think it's going to take longer for the less worthy ThirdGens to weed themselves out so the quality ones can take their place in the spotlight. Even then, just by the disproportionate amount of ThirdGens vs. 1st Gens, their value may not be quite as high. FWIW, two of the top ten sales at Mecum's Kansas City Auction this past weekend were 1st Gens. One sold for six figures and the other one sold in the high five figures. So if it took 40-plus years for 1st Gens to command that kind of value, it'll probably take 60 years for the ThirdGens to achieve the same status.

rarebmx

iTrader: (6)

To be frank; the 69 Camaro is in a World of it's own. They started making the 69 Camaro in 68 and carried on into 1970 - yes, there is no such animal as a 1970 Camaro - they are 70 1/2 Camaro because they were still making the 69 into 70 to keep up with demand. The 69 Camaro also had so many configurations that you cannot even compare a third gen to a 69. Everything from base model 6, to bigger six, to h/o small block to an all aluminum big block CoPO cars.
The 1970-1973 Camaro's took a LONG time to come into vouge and are there now. The 78-81 Camaro's still are not crazy high except a 4 speed t-top car in top shape!
The third gens will be in a movie or TV show in the next 10 years. Someone will put one in becuase they are an iconic car but that will not make prices jump. Take car of your car, keep it clean, take it to car shows (even as a spectator), take it to swap meets, take it to the auto parts store and just drive them. People will notice the nice ones and kids will see them and remember. They are in Forza 4 and our 14 year old has one like our real one there. People can think anything about he car and if they think it is a trailertrash car, at least they are thinking of it. There is no such thing as bad publicity. Appreciate what you have, take care of it and it will take care of you.

JeepOnRock

These cars will pick up in value... When the economy comes back, look for the highest performance/limited option models to pick up value... I would guess that prices for those will go up in about 5 or 6 years. As the people that graduated high school when these cars were new get into their 50s, they will get nostalgic. They will start to have the budget to throw at making them into what they wanted when they were kids...

The market will follow that.

They will never compare to the 69 Camaros (or Chevelles or Mustangs or Cougars... or anything else from 69) and part of that is due to the year. 69 was a VERY good year and has become iconic all on its own.

cerberus

Freaking New Guy here. My .02 for you:

Collectibility starts with generational income.

35-45 year old men are starting to earn more income, these men admired these cars and in "the day" the cool guys had them in high school.

This is why late 2nd gen models are now becoming pricey and collectible.

I graduated in 1984 all the cool seniors had the late 2nd gen Z's my then wealthy girl friend had a 84 z28 bough for her by her parents. OH MY that car was fast and way cool! Plus I learned how to to do the horizontal.....any ways you get.


82-87 model year Z's are starting to garner attention. Prices should be bottoming out and start to rise. I know that the 3rd gen HO 305 motor cars are very desireable to more people now.


The other thing is when we show our cars it stimulates desire and interest.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

This is a good point, and can be applied to any year of that general era. That was when America "woke up" so to speak, when the gender roles of Leave it to Beaver were cast aside, people began protesting what they didn't believe in, there was women's liberation and civil rights, music really came alive (and drugs), and the 2 door post sedan all of a sudden morphed into an edgy, loud muscular car with a name that meant business. It really was an era where America changed radically, and people became liberated compared to years past.

People remember the era fondly, and I imagine it would've been an amazing time to be coming of age.

That plays an enormous role in the value of the muscle cars today. When people think of the '80s, they think of cheesy computers (which is looked down on now in the technical revolution of today), ugly boxy cars, big hair, death metal, and girls who wore hideous pants up to their belly buttons.

The '80s simply don't--nor ever will--have the appeal of the braless late '60s. Couple that with the fact that cars couldn't be ordered nearly as unusually as they could in the '60s with not nearly as many color choices or unusual options to choose from, and all of a sudden very few models really stand out like the COPOs/Daytonas/etc. of the '60s, and even then the ones that do standout usually don't have much if anything more under the hood (1LE, etc.). In other words, you either have a 5.7 or 5.0/T5 IROC or you don't.

JeepOnRock

I was speaking specifically of cars... and of the fact that a LOT of people like the number 69 (wink, wink) and the 69s are more popular than the (often identical) 68 and 70 models for that reason for a lot of people (even if subconsciously).

Of course, as I say that, I prefer the front end treatment of the 69 Mustang and 69 Cougar much more than the 70. But, I actually like the 70 Chevelle a bit more than the 69. There aren't a lot of differences between the 68 Camaro and the 69, except the 69 was produced for much longer, making it less rare. But, for many, even though the 69 is much more available, it has more value.

But, regardless, I think that over the next 10 years that 3rd Gens will have a rise in value. I'm 46, and graduated in 1983. I was looking at Mustangs, Trans Ams and Camaros as a high school kid, and the 3rd Gens were pretty new. Frankly, I was a Ford Guy, so I was more interested in the Mustangs, but as guys my age a bit younger get to the point where they are buying toys to recapture their youth, they will bid up the 3rd Gens...

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

I don't understand why this thread is still going. I guess it's just the nature of the average third gen owner. Why the heck does it matter what others think about a car you own or you want to buy? If you like it, then there's nothing wrong with putting money in it.

I have several other older GM's and am a member of other forums that focus on those vehicles. This silly topic rarely, if ever, comes up. Take my trucks for instance, the '73-'87 body style. They aren't worth that much, and the general public just considers them to be trucks. But people often get a banged up, rotted out, severely neglected truck for basically the cost of scrap... and then proceed to pull the bed and cab from the frame, rebuild the suspension, replace nearly every body panel, rebuild the motor/tranny and so on. Then when it's finished, they are proud of their work and people applaud the owner for doing a nice job and keeping a good truck on the road. That's it. No complaining about the value (or lack of) of the truck. Nobody scolding them for dumping that much money in it even though nicer ones are available. Sure, you will never get the money back out of it... but that's NOT the point.

And it's not just the truck folks. It's like that on the other forums too. Not here though, oh no, the only thought on everyone's mind is how much their car is worth. It bugs me that a lot of members here complain that they can't get much money for their car when they want to sell it, but will constantly look at other third gens for sale and make comments like "it's not worth squat" or "that should be a parts car".

cerberus

speculation is fun, when most have to sell its for a very important reason. Its nice to vent to others and find solice and edification in others



As for price increase and value, every red neck in the world hack saws the a/c off, slaps a holley and edelbrock on it with some headers, guts the interior to install some bass kickin 1000watt stereo and it ends up looking like a multi colored pile of ****. Next we see some underemployed, undereducated high school kid who has the desire to restore it because its the closest thing he can come to a modern day street fighter, It then ends up in pieces in a yard of field because he doesnt have the money to finish it. Lets not forget the backward hat wearing bling ring wearing dude that finds every neon paint color and thinks its neat to paint every freaking interior surface bright lime green or purple because he saw some idiot on pimp my ride do it and it was wayyyyy cool.

More power to them because it only increases the value of the guys who buy them and struggle to restore to factory original specs with factory pieces. When they do take the to car shows the neon painted camaro owners act like *** clowns because they finally realize they destroyed a perfectly good car by dumping thousands of hard earned dollars for neon lights, amps and speakers. They just dont understand why that totally stock car brings so much money when they have the interior of a z28 looking like a french ***** house.

Restoration rules. It pays off in the end

Rant off

keep it up

just sayin.

This happened in the 70s with pearl and candy apple paint jobs, glued on fuzz and cragar mags with cooper N50's gabriel hijackers etc. Those big piles of poop are the last to be restored. The birth control glasses wearing pocket protector guys who kept rides stock reap the benefits of keeping them stock.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I understand your point, and I agree, but a slow 305 base model car is never going to be worth the cost it takes to restore it. The only way it could ever be worth serious money is if it's either 1. Very low mileage and unrestored - a survivor or 2. Made into a clone of a IROC or Z28.

Something like your ride I definitely think should be left as stock as possible, it's a beautiful low mileage car. But a base model L03/LG4 car with high miles and body damage is begging to be made into a track car or crazy restomod pro touring car. Probably cheaper to toss an LS1/T56/9 inch in it than it is to restore it 100 percent completely to factory spec using NOS parts, and it will probably be worth a lot more money the former way as well.

I think you run into problems when you "customize" cars too heavily when it comes to aesthetics, inside or out. The cragars and fuzz and tuck and roll work and ridiculous candy paint jobs were an appearance thing and therefore based on trends of the era. If you avoid stylistic trends and stick to a mostly stock look you wont have that trouble

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

n00b of the year!

Jason444

iTrader: (6)

Tell it all brother, tell it all!!!

NCGuy68

I laughed my butt off on everything you said and you're absolutely right. I've seen it too many times.

You should write a book and title it: "F-Body Restoration Techniques For Rednecks" . Bet you'd sell a million copies.

cerberus

n00b of the year is a good thing?


Sorry for the rant. I am not a purist by any stretch. Its your car your money.


But dang everytime time I see these pieces of history get butchered you know baby jesus is crying!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Thank You.

two-if-by-sea

iTrader: (22)

He's passing the torch, he earned the title last year.

cerberus

AWESOME!

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

As many have stated the Camaro in question looks to be a good candidate for a LSx or crate motor. Pictures can be deceiving but the front damage is not a big fix. And it doesn't have to be anything wild and what would be a nice touch is an almost completly stock appearance. There are so many more V6 ,and even V8, Sport Coupes or RS than any other 3rd Gen. To me unless it's an ultra low mile excellent example of these then they are the logical choice for mods. I hardly ever see 3rd Gen Firebirds of any model or year. And decent Camaros aren't a common sight though the ones that hurt the F-Body in general are. I watched the same thing happen to the 1st Gen until the '80s and then the 2nd Gen until the mid '90s (special models generally the exception). Also as stated the 3rd Gen enjoyed a 10 year run with probably more built than the 1st & 2nd Gen together.

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

3rdgen's will never be worth big money just like 1st gens AREN'T worth big money!

Yeah I said it, now before you go jump on me a 69 camaro is a much more desirable classic then a 3rdgen. Guess what I go on ebay and their are hundreds of them. If there is no shortage of them all these years later, there's little chance there will be a shortage of 3rdgens when people are more aware of saving 'muscle' cars then they were in the 60's.

2nd you can buy a 69 camaro all day long for 20-something. That's NOT expensive. That's less then a basic commuter car costs these days. Why people insist most classic cars are just plain expensive while they pay more for the car they are currently driving is beyond me.

Yes there's a few exceptions (zl1, cuda, etc) and you don't need to waste my time listing them for me.
A $4000 3rdgen could quadruple to $16,000 in 20 years, but with inflation and time value of money that's NOTHING and that's before you even count maintence and restoration expenses.

Jason E

For the record....

I am ALL FOR restoring these cars. I've done a heavy resto on one, and a cosmetic/maintenance resto on my current 86 TA. I have invested an *** load of money in buying and restoring third gens...the three that I have now, and the three that came before them.

These are the car for me, and I hope more people start to feel the same way I do. It would simply be nice to have my hard earned, total investment actually amount to something more than 50% of what I invested if I decided later to sell it. I watch the same people who claim to cherish them on here telling me I'd be crazy to spend more than a paycheck to buy that car. A whole damn running, driving, functional car. And these are "enthusiasts" of the marque.

Some of you are out of your damn minds.

RANT OFF.

mustangdmurder

iTrader: (3)

I think now is the best time to buy these cars. They are not quite classics yet, so you can buy them for dirt cheap, but in 10 years they will all be classics. Think how much money you could have made off of buying a used 1970 Chevelle, 1969 Camaro or something like that back in the late 70s early 80s and just garaged it you would go from having a car worth 3,000 to 50,000. I think right now is the best time to buy these cars and garage them. They will increase in price just like the muscle cars before them.

bitchin_buick

I mentioned this as well a page or so ago. The bashing starts within our own community. They sound like a bunch of "caddy" women to me...... "My car is so freaken' special and these others are a disgrace, blah, blah, blah........" I'm sorry honey, what did you say.....

I agree: Simple economics people.... My P.O.S. 82' Buick box car has over doubled in value in less than 5 years since I bought her, Stock V6/NA needing new paint..... Patience ladies, it will all be ok.............. Man I hate my Buick, she is a POS for being 30 years old...

cerberus

Agreed

Lets define camaro vs z28.......a regualar 69 camaro is just an old restored car with appeal to many. An old restored 69 z28 appeals to all.

Lets judge value. I value a car by what it brings of its original price. My 85 should have cost between 16k-18k I think its worth 12-15 and in a sellers market (read good economy) I think its worth 15-20. In another 10 years or more I can see it bringing 200% of its original value.
Thats 100% of its original cost. When you can buy a car and it appreciates in value everyday you are doing pretty good.

Remember that when comparinga 70 z28 appreciation in value you have to allow for economic growth etc. i.e. gallon of gas 1970 vs gallon of gas 2011, 3 bedroom home 1970 vs 3 bedroom home 2011 and finally income levels 1970 vs 2011



Your right I agree. You POV is what drives our hobby. keep it going.

burnout88

Does everyone think the restore Firehawk88 has in this same section on the board a total waste? He took a plain 85 base Z28 with an LG4 and is slowly turning it into a really nice thirdgen with a very unique looking custom color. I think the big difference is it appears he actually knows how to paint and restore a car properly.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...my-police.html

I probably have over 10k into my car. It was decent when I started but now it can literally stop traffic and I was just offered 8k cash for it. I had to restore mine because you are not going to find any medium orange metallic IROC's that are low mileage. They do not exist. They only made 3,000 of them. I saved one of them. The rest that have made it this long are probably close to seeing the crusher.

cerberus

Looks good to me, its still a z28, a very factory look using factory parts

cIaRmOaCrZo

the worst thing of it is....this is a 3rdgen enthusiest website!! and all i see at least 5 threads per page is "PART OUT". and most of the cars bieng parted are nice. and yes, its non of my buisness to tell anyone what to do, or not to do to their very own peice of property...but i usually am the guy on most of those post who has to at LEAST ask why its getting parted out...when in reality all i can think to myself is "i just wanna punch them in his face, while giving a headshake with a moment of silence for the poor car the fool owns" ITS SICK! most ignore me, but i dont care. because I AM buying up all these cheapo's NOW while its still even remotely POSSIBLE,,,yeah possible, because one it will be IMPOSSIBLE <----thats exactly what i will be doing when i hear one of those retard money hungry say years down the road "man i use to have tons of 3rdgens back in the day that i would part out as my full time job, boy do i regret it" lol it will be my pleasure when my daily driver beater is very saught after in its beater state. thats exactly why im afraid to sell any of my 3rdgens because some are considered crap to alot of people and would get parted out the day they took ownership..so i just keep em and USE them as cars. sure i have an itch for many types and thats why i cant stop hunting for them. but its sickning that other are "hunting" for them in the same fashion to do the exact opposite just to make some money. and the money flow of you guys parting them out is actually gonna slow down because SOOO MANY of you already did it (past tense) that you already fed the one who needed that part. so now your STILL parting them out while the demand for the parts are slowing (not extreme but noticable now). and bam, u just killed a car, while making almost nothing off of it.......sorry for the rant. just something i wanted to get off my chest after bieng so quite on here for the past few years.

cerberus

I just reviewed our dallas craigslist and saw a very nice looking IROC being parted out. made me sick

cIaRmOaCrZo

yeah thats all i see too. but there are some who are "extremist" in the sense of buying several of these up to ONLY part out. and those are the ones i wanna punch and laugh at. and yeah i still get mad at ones who part out just 1. but the kingpins who part out several make me just wanna find them lol. and they know who they are on here, and would love to hear thier defense to what i think about them. for example to craigslist, there is a guy in ohio (just look for self) who has tons of adds with tons of pics of SOOO many differant thirdgens (bad *** ones too) all parted out. i believe this dudes name is robert but dont know if he has an account on here or not. but the cars arent just sport coupes and RS's (which still dont deserve it) but are straight up CLEANNNN irocs, gta's, verts, you name it!

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

I swear when i graduate college this next year I'm gonna save another 3rdgen.I cant watch all these nice cars waste away.

cerberus

Moral of the thread is that it starts with US and you and anybody who owns a thrid gen. It starts US/you showing the world at car shows on these threads, on adverts etc that these are desirable cars.

eseibel67

I don't know what you guys are all so uptight about. I'm 44 years old, and when I was a teenager I was disrespecting 2nd gens with a fury because they were the fastest car a poor kid could afford.

Same thing is happening to 3rd and 4th gens right now. Big deal, kids trashing these things is a compliment to the platform.

burnout88

So true, my brother high school really tore up a 2nd gen in high school. It started as a nice car with potential to restore but after a 16 year old got a hold of it. yikes!!

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I agree that the car in this post is a great candidate for a pro-street car, a pro-touring car, an LSX swap, or something like that. THIS is the exact kind of car to do these things to, not original Z28s and IROC-Zs and such. I can't stand seeing good examples of these cars, especially top models when they're close to original, get torn up for someones project. They are a piece of history and will one day be considered rare cars. I almost never see any on the road as it is now. An RS is the perfect vehicle for that kind of thing. It's one of the reasons why I've kept mine. If the car is done right, as in made to be capable of some great performance with tasteful looks, someone will be willing to pay what you want for it out there if that's what they're after, since originality and model wouldn't be something they'd care about. A buyer like that is looking for something that would trump any stock performing Third Gen and then some.

That said, restoring cars isn't for everyone. So, if you have a car that needs it, at least try to sell it instead of parting it and give the car a chance, especially if it's a higher model. It will be worth something someday. I remember when I started looking for my IROC-Z in 00, the prices were way lower than they are now for nice or mint examples. There wasn't many, if any collector car companies trying to sell them like I see now. They've been gaining value steadily over years and will continue to do so. It took 1st Gens longer to gain value than many think. They were still very cheap in the 80s and even into the early 90s. I know people that bought and sold them for a fraction of what they're worth now during those times. They've become valuable due to age, supply, misconceptions that they are advanced over all 80s and 90s performance cars, and rich people bidding on them at televised auctions unfortunately. Almost no one saw it coming and people were clueless that they'd ever have any significant value. It's going to repeat itself, even if not on the same scale, it's still gonna happen.

GTA50

I don't have a problem with the replies on either side of the fence. Given this ad:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/va...743458238.html

what do you think your thirdgen should be worth? That is the question.

GTA50

The other thoughts that also come to mind on the mod concept are:

1. Who did the build?

2. How extensive was the build?

3. Was the car "run hard and put away hot?" - probably yes.

4. Where is the documentation on mods? Without it, most techs won't touch the car.

So, from my perspective, I don't care who you are. If the car is original, then I know what I am dealing with. If the car has been modded and is an unknown - not a hope in hell of a purchase on my part.

Linson

This is probably not going to go over well, but this is how i honestly feel at the moment. after reading over this ongoing discussion, i have inferred that i have been referred to as perhaps 'a bad third-gen enthusiast' by some for comments that i have made [comments that i feel that the totality of the context may not have been fully understood.] yet, by my estimation, i am at least as good and true a Third-Gen Enthusiast as anyone in this discussion. And this is how i figure:

in 2003, i rescued a black 1989 Firebird Formula 350 (my dream car) from a paint shop/garage's junk lot for $750. while the body was straight and solid, the car needed SO MUCH work (and $$$) in order to get it where i wanted it to be. the paint, interior, and mechanicals were shot. but nonetheless, i kept it at my house, took this non-running car with me when i moved in conjunction with changing careers, paid to have it transported across the country when i changed locations. i was never able to get this project off the ground, but over the course of the many years that it sat, i was constantly making those dream sheets that i assume many of us make with our Summit and Jegs catalogs (building the car on paper). i probably still have some somewhere, and i dont even have the car anymore. and when i was driving my truck or driving at work, in my mind i would often imagine that i was driving my finished '89 Formula. and the same mental processes ensued when i bought my Maui Blue '89 Formula 350 - a more do-able project.

the Maui Blue Formula had just under 30K on the odometer when i bought it. of course, i ended up not getting what i had bargained for as the car had sat for almost two decades necessitating a complete mechanical overhaul, therefore speeding up the process of making it the Formula of my dreams. but had the car been in the mechanical condition it was advertised to be in, my intentions would not have changed. i would have still carried out my plans of improving performance with aluminum Vortec heads, cam, full roller valve train, exhuast, enhanced TPI components, brakes, and a couple of suspension odds and ends.

The moral of that story is this: as much as i have obsessed over my various 3rd gen Firebirds, i have NEVER ONCE obsessed over their value to some theoretical perspective buyer. my pre-occupation has always been having the car of my dreams (which happens to be a 3rd gen.) my goal has NEVER been about having something of value sitting in my garage. my goal has ALWAYS been about having a bad-*** 89 Formula 350 that i drive...fast...and take to car shows. i have NO plans on selling my 3rd Gen - EVER.

and that is what i am seeing in this thread - pre-occupation with value, and making a profit. well, if that is your concern then here is the last piece of advise you'll ever need: dont fix up a car. any car.

i thought about this thread last night. i was watching a program on the Velocity Channel, a show about this British guy who buys older cars in the U.S. and then ships them back to Britain, fixes them up, and sells them for a profit. i enjoyed the show for the car (in this case a '54 Chevy truck), and the process of restoring/fixing it up, but throughout the program, it was clear that the only goal was to turn a profit, which was disappointing to me. it's like, 'where's the love?' and that is the feeling that i am getting from this thread when it seems that 90% of the posters are in this for a profit motive. and yeah, it seems a little hypocritical for those same people to point fingers at people who simply think that all 3rd gens aren't worth saving - as being 'the problem.'