HI85WH1

Location is listed...

Linson

there. happy?

HI85WH1

All you had to do was read the left column before saying "PM me, seriously"

When I read that I knew clearly you did not.

People have no idea what it cost to ship thinks in and out of Hawaii. you might as well ship something from europe... the dock pirates rape you blind.

Linson

i know. my bad. that's why i did the only honorable thing that there was left to do.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

You said it yourself...

You've said that ANY thirdgen (or any other car period, for that matter) that doesn't have a tire-smoking V8 in it isn't worth your time. Well, then, don't rag on them. You are obviously NOT an enthusiast, as you only want top-end. Well, as I already said, a REAL enthusiast takes something that IS NOT top end and makes it JUST AS GOOD OR BETTER than the top end. And they wouldn't just crush everything below it because it's "not good enough". They would leave it for someone just getting into the hobby so that they can build it up their way. Not everyone can afford $8K for a decent Z28 or GTA, but they would get something lesser and make it better.

Personally, I believe guys like you should be stuffed into the perfectly good cars they're sending to the crusher, because you all think you're better than everyone else and that even the best isn't good enough for you.

BTW, you DO realize that there are V6 cars on here that are well capable of crushing V8 cars, right?

I'm done with you... It's kind of like talking to my dead dog...

Linson

yeah, right. total cop out, dude. ignore everything i said, and just put devisive words into my mouth while completely backpedalling on what you said.

that isnt even what you said in your earlier post. you said you like to keep things as close to original as possible unless the original equipment is a lost cause, remember.

NOW youre talking about suping up 6s and Base models into Supercars - which was my position to begin with. therefore, the new position that you are trying to put upon me is that anything outside of IROCs and Trans Ams should go straight to the crusher. wow, youre full of crap, dude.

Linson

also, fwiw, i've never sent any car to the crusher...you know what? forget it. it doesn't matter.

Linson

fwiw, if anyone wants the full context of what is being said here go back a page and look for the post with the flouresent green text.

HarbingerTA

iTrader: (1)

I bought a 1983 TransAm pace car this fall to restore, just because it was a pace car. My brother was going to scrap his 1986 camaro sports coupe but sold it to me for parts. Rust free and mint interior.

My dilemma is now: do I strip it for the suspension goodies it has on it (was my brother's drag car) or maybe throw the 355 I have in it and drive it?

I don't have the money or the room to do both right now so this spring I am guessing I am going to send the camaro down the road. Shame since the interior is so clean but......

Is it worth saving? Depends on who you ask.

Dartht33bagger

To be honest, I could care less that my car would be worth more. I don't own my car so that I can say "well it's worth a lot". I own it because I love the car.

I'd rather see streets filled with saved thirdgens over a bunch of third gens sitting in the junkyard because no one thought they were worth saving.

Also, think about it this way. There are only so many third gens that exist in the world. No more will ever be made. Say in 10 or 15 years your car gets damaged beyond repair and you can't do anything to fix it. Would you rather have an abundance of nice cars to choose from, or a very small number of cars to choose from because no one cared enough to save most of the cars? I'd rather have an abundance of nice cars to choose from, but that's just me.

firehawk1988

I for one don't care if its a V6 or V8 F-body to say wether its worth saving. If the car is rusted completely in 2 halves where you'd need 10 spools of welding wire and several large sheets of sheet metal or wrecked where the chassis is a complete "L", then its not worth saving.
I hate waste in all forms, but sometimes a car will see its final day. Unfortunately, money is the biggest factor involved with restoration and a persons abililty to maintain the car. Its a shame that with this poor economy, alot of people would love to restore or keep there cars but find themselves not able to do either. So they get crushed or parted out when they could have been sold to someone who could have done something nice with it.

I purchased my 88 Formula in 2001 for $1000 and i painted, changed the front and maintained it. It has 197,000 miles and wont be worth anything in the future. But its worth ALOT to me and i intend to keep as long as possible. My girlfriend bought her 91 V6 firebird in 97 and it has 186,000 with the original motor and tranny. Its perfect for her since it makes great gas mileage and she doesnt need more power anyway...LOL. And again, its not going to be worth anything in the future.

We both get TONS of compliments when we are out in these cars because no one has these cars around. Some tell her she needs a V8 but it would be pointless to do that. I love it when people stop and talk about our cars. Its a proud feeling you get when it seems there are fewer and fewer 3rd Gen owners out there.

Its a shame that a price tag has to put next to something to show worth. Worth can be measured in so many ways. Sentimental value, being rare or just plain loving it is not measured at any auction or shown as an appraised value. You never hear anything about the RARE 91-92 Firehawks on Barrett Jackson! And i'm sure we would all love to have one of those.

What really makes me sick is seeing the video on Youtube of the 91 Formula going into Cash for Clunkers Program. A perfectly nice 3rd Gen wasted for a $4000 rebate on purchasing a new car(probably a Toyota or a Honda too). Its things like that that really burn my a$$ when it comes to how careless some people are towards are beloved F-bodies.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I just want to put something into perspective for those saying that V6 cars should practically always be restored to original condition and not upgraded with V8s or redone as performance cars. Maybe those who say that have no experience with them. I have one myself, and besides the lightweight tossability, they aren't much fun. In fact, they are horribly slow. A 0-60 in about 10 seconds or more and a 1/4 mile in about 18 seconds or more kind of slow. So slow that merging onto busy streets can be a dangerous adventure because of the lack of acceleration. There will probably be stock V6 cars that will always remain that way, but really, they are the cars that we want people turning into street machines, pro street cars, pro-touring cars, or drag cars, not Z28s and especially IROC-Zs. They're perfect to have fun with and just about everyone would rather see a Camaro with a V8 than a V6. On top of that, a properly done swapped car will command more money than a stock V6, just like with the 1st Gens. I might even do it to mine someday!

lt1zr28

I don't think most of us are saying they should be restored back to new. I believe most are thinking lets do what need's to be done to keep them on the road if they already are.IMO
But some how the conversation keep going back to the money more than the car's. IMO

HI85WH1

How do you think all the other classic cars are being saved before restoration places provided restoration parts?... They use other cars as parts to fix them.

Think of it like organ donation...

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Personally, I'd rather see a lot of nicely done up, rebuilt, stock cars than a few cars that are modded to the max so that you need to stop at a gas station every 2 hours on a long trip down the highway. There was a point to the third generation being offered, in most cases, with a minimum of 3 engine/powertrain choices. I don't know about you guys and gals, but I would rather see someone fix up a basket case V6 or low-end V8 than trading it in for scrap metal to help pay for a frikin Prius. It's still an F-body, even if it has an I4. It's still cool, even if it isn't going to drain half a tank of gas in 100 miles. You may not think so, but some of us do.

Yes, there is a difference to crushing a car to put it out of its misery (rust bucket) and crushing it because nobody thinks it's worth anything. I'll take my low-end car, thanks, and the only way it's seeing a crusher is if it develops too many rust holes to handle or ends up in a serious crash. It's the guys who crush their cars, or ones they find, because they haven't tried hard enough to find a buyer, that make me sick. It's still a perfectly good car, is it not?

And, if you don't believe that I know what an enthusiast is, keep in mind that my family has a guy (some sort of cousin of mine, I guess) with a fully restored 70s Vette (don't know exactly what year it is but I do know it's from the 70s) and my great uncle (RIP) had a restored 1931 Model A that he spent YEARS scouring the country for parts to, that was completely street legal. He even found a 1931 NY license plate for it. Too bad he never rebuilt the engine (yes, it was a flathead 4-cylinder!), or it may have ended up worth more than the $5000 it was appraised for. And yes, it's still in the family. My ex-brother-in-law had a second gen I would have killed to get my hands on (I believe it may have been a 79, but I'm not sure), but it was sold because of their family and it was getting too expensive to keep (and they needed a bigger car with more than one kid).

cerberus

It's good to see the passion here.

NowhereFast

I'd love to save every one at this point, as the numbers are dwindling. We're lucky if there are still a quarter of the production run still in good condition, and not complete basketcases beyond saving.

I completely agree with Dartht33bagger's post. I too would rather have my car worth less and have more of them to choose from. The value of my car doesn't provide me with joy. I'd enjoy it the same if it was worth $100 or $100,000.

I'm pretty upset about how little there are left.

lmidden

yea i no how u feel. especially on li since they have all disappeared due how fast they rust here.
i was looking at fenders for my car at a junkyard i get to the 3rd gens first thing i noticed was a 1987 camaro lt it had a straight frame but it was cut apart

Linson

if i may interject, and this is not agains you - your point is taken, although i would say that a lot of people do come off as arguing for the full restoration of lower end F-Bodies.

i dont know what it is about me or the manner in which i speak that rubs certain people the wrong way, but it seems like pulling teeth to get people to even acknowledge my point of view sometimes. and then a moderator will interject and make the exact same point i've made, and everyone's fine with it.

i agree with you if you are saying that the true issue is always being muddied by peoples proccupation/obsession with money and potentioal cash value. truth = if i (who have been deemed by some as 'not a true enthusiast,' i guess for my willingness to deviate from factory performance perameters) were into this for profit, i would probably not have pursued third gens over the years, but rather, would have jumped on the Mopar bandwagon.

to me, the issue is not money or value. i dont think i've ever even brought it up. as i would have thought was made clear in my stance in these debates, the issue is respect.

• there is a lack of respect for 3rd gens among the general public.
• generally, our cars are not rememberred fondly.
• the reason our cars are remembered as slow, 'paper tiger performers' is because the majority that were built were slow, and performance cars in name alone.
• RSs, Base Firebirds, (L03s and the like) are what earned our cars the aforementioned reputation, not IROCs, Formulas, and TAs.
• the respect has to come before any value.
• if the Camaros, Chargers, and Mustangs of the late 60's were never bad asses, then they wouldnt be in demand/valuble today.
• everyone (general public) thinks every 1st gen Camaro is a bad ***, because just about every one they've ever seen is modded and hot rodded.
• The POINT of 3rd gens, like 1st and 2nd Gens, was an affordable performance car, NOT improved gas mileage, low emmissions, and hampered peformance. those things were a symptom of the times.
• stock for stock, you take your average 68 Camaro, and your average 89-ish Formula, IROC-Z, or Trans Am, and run em through a Car and Driver-style shoot out course, that 1st gen is going to have a long day.
• i kinda doubt that 1st gen Chevy Novas were too desireable and respected before every other one was getting pro-streeted, and now resto-modded.
• the general public needs to see bad-*** 3rd gens on the street before their perceptions change.
• keeping a bunch of tired L03's and 6s on the road ("doing what needs to be done to keep them on the road if they already are.") will never change that perception (it will re-envorce it), and never command the respect that i think our cars deserve.

now, is my thinking flawed? quite possibly. i think its pretty solid, but it's a conversation that i'm willing to have.

is this post too long? yes, probably. i have alot to say/am very passionate about 3rd gens, which is counter-intuitive, seeing as how i am not even a 'true enthusiast.'

does every Third Gen deserve a chance at being saved? In my opinion going from 170 horsepower L03 to 2300 lb, LS1 powered supercar IS being saved. anyone who wants to cherish and maintain their RSs and V6 third gens, thats fine. the cars that are availabe for hot rod fodder may someday get used up, then the value of your RS or Base Firebird might go up slightly, so that it too can be hot rodded. i guess then, everyone will get what they want. people will always want to build the car of their dreams with more passion than people will want to just keep something on the road...or stashed in their garage.

Dartht33bagger

I could care less about keeping the car original. I think resto-mods are the best way to restore an old car. Why? Because it keeps the look of the car pure but it upgrades things that make the car much more drivable.

The thing that bothers me is when someone picks up a v6 car that is in fair condition and then they part out what they can and scrap it. That shouldn't happen. If the shell is fair, why scrap the car? I'd say drop a SBC or an LSX in it (do it the right way, not half assed) and bring the car back up to show quality. That's the type of thing I want to see done with third gens.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

All I know is I saved mine,and if you want to save yours,then you go ahead and save it.It's nobody's business but yours.It's a great learning experience.

project86camaro

I probably went over board on my 86. Its a V6 clean car no body rust. It was sitting 13 years in a garage some place. Been having the car gone over in stages. Its only a V6 and will be my daily. These would make good Pro-tours but really when you think about it how many original V6s do you see on the road and in 20 yrs how many will you think there will be. I hate to say it with oil and fuel costs as they been going in 20 or 30 yrs the big V8s and all with the 305 stocks and the bigger 350s might be trailer cars or rarely driven while V6 cars might be more of interest for daily cruising.

My belief has always been if you buy a car and its been modded. Just go with it and have fun modding it ( doesnt include modding for updated suspension parts and newer AC ). Yet if you buy a car that is original ( esp. matching numbers) you dont mod that and pull motors and such. I know many will disagree when its a v6 but its a respect thing for me. Someone worked to keep it like this so others can enjoy it so I continue that. I tell ya on my 86 I got taken on the price knowing now I have to put 4k into the car in parts and labor to get it on the road but 6500 for a stock v6 is alot but look what used car dealerships sell for 7000. Where you gonna get a sharp looking car like the 3rd gen that stands out, ( in my case under 85,000 mi) and just puts a big ole smile on your face.

I also have a 84 blue Monte Carlo SS. 305 all stock original. Unrestored and under 100k on it. Thats my show car and rarely gets driven outside of shows and cruise nights. Ironically cost 1200 less than this camaro will be when its done, but I wouldnt dream of driving that in a NJ winter storm between salt , ice and the bad drivers in my state id be in jail for something.

I dont think when we talk about is it worth bringing back to glory we should so quickly write off the V6s cause depending where we go they might be the only cars we might be able to afford to drive on the road that can be completely stock and original.

89chevysb

I started from a 169,000 mile v6 700r4 and built it up to a 383 t56 which will be going in soon. I would have to say that if there was a choice between the RS or Z28 (same price for instance) you're obviously going to take the Z28 and if the RS with say a v6 might as well save it and buy a 350 block. There a dime a dozen now.

mille_3

iTrader: (3)

I can't agree with you more. I just picked up this V6 diamond in the rough for $400. The previous owner did me the favor of pulling the drive train, saving me the labor and mess of doing it myself (motor was seized anyway). Over the next 12 months this car will be turned into a pro-touring car with an LS motor under the hood and a much superior suspension and paint than anything GM could put together back then and perhaps even today (maybe).

This car has been parked since 1996 and always indoors, yeah it's filthy as can be expected after sitting for 16 years but there isn't a speck of rust on this car, save for some light surface rust in a small spot on the quarter panel. Full interior with only one piece of trim needing replacement.

This is one great example of a 3rd gen that deserves saving be it a v6 or v8. It's a solid base on which someone can build the car to it's true potential.

HI85WH1

All of those that might say they should all be saved... where do you expect them to sit while you get around to having time or space to work on them?

There is a push here to get rid of all the abandoned vehicles (left on public roadway for more than 24 hours, expired reg and inspection) off the roadways... if they are derelict, they go STRAIGHT to the shredder... no matter how perfect the car may seem.

Bottom line is storing a car forever is not practical or reasonable to everyone... if youre lucky enough to score a "barn find" thats been parked indoors for 20 years, more power to you.

If youre buying used parts, youre contributing to the used parts market that originates from scrapping cars. Like I said before... in other for some to survive you must be able to supply parts... and the OE market is done with exception of some NOS stuff floating around. Now we wait for reproduction stuff to come to market or use second hand parts from parts cars.

patricklav

iTrader: (7)

Very rarely do i see a third gen on the streets or at the track where i live. its frustrating because i see alot of Mustangs being restored but few third gens. I guess its good in a way because the cars are becoming rare and possibly more valuable.

Mrs.Crasher0083

I think all deserve to be saved. Yeah some claim we need part cars but parts can be bought from companies. I guess its a matter of opinion.....like politics and religion. I would say save them all though. Even if its a POS rust bucket.....the fact would be that when your done and you look at the "before" pics and then look at the gem in the garage.....it makes you feel good. The more I do on a car.....the more sense of pride I have when Im finished. Yes....not everyone has the $$$$ to dump into a complete POS but thats where the decision is made. Do I have the cash? Will I have it? Is it beyond my skill level? Ect.... If you buy one thats already finished you cant say you did sh^t to it. Maybe you could go around bragging about how you change your oil when your supposed to? lol

lt1zr28

[quote=HI85WH1;5163105]All of those that might say they should all be saved... where do you expect them to sit while you get around to having time or space to work on them?

I would say the same place the rest get put.But like i said before if they are running and driving.Safely that is.Why not keep them there?Because they probably are not setting.




"There is a push here to get rid of all the abandoned vehicles (left on public roadway for more than 24 hours, expired reg and inspection) "

I personally would not leave my car on a public
roadway.Or let my reg expire,How ever i know not every one has that option.......................IMO

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

You can't save them all. I am very thankful to the people here who sell nice used Thirdgen parts. I have been in the process of restoring the interior and exterior of my car, and I have purchased stuff from many of the reputable used parts sellers on here because of the lack of availability of parts for my car. Sometimes some have to be sacrificed to save the rest...

HI85WH1

right... you can buy them from companies.. where do you think those parts come from?...

Body parts, with rare exception are used unless NOS stuff that pops up from time to time....

Seat covers and repro carpet can be had, but not much else interior-wise.

You can rebuild an engine, trans, rear axle, suspension and brakes, but most else you're on your own to find stuff harvested off less fortunate cars.

There are simply some cars you are not going to be willing to fix...

HI85WH1

Depends where you live... but the legislature here went as far as trying to remove the inop vehicles from private property... of course it failed but the fact they tried was just nuts.

If we keep them all we are considered hoarders... lets face it... the DIY'er is a dying breed of person.. most are now checkbook hot-rodders...

HI85WH1

Well said.

lt1zr28

HI85WH1

SEMA action network... yep.. every enthusiast should be a member.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Thing is, you won't see superb restorations. The average thirden owning greaseball with no education who parks in the yard in the ghetto and throws a tarp on it can barely afford the rattlecans. Harsh, but true.

No. My "throw away" base model is nicer than 80% of the cars on this board, and better than 99% of the ones on the road. The reason thirdgens are regarded as trash is because they are owned largely by greaseball trailer trash.

You really believe that the person who directly transplants a worthless 70's smogger 2-bolt 350 out of a truck with a carb and who doesn't even rebuild the engine but literally lifts it out of one box and puts it directly into another does more for our image than the preserved car in my sig? I'm doing more for our image by not hacking mine up than any carb'd car on this website.

If only there were such a thing as a properly swapped thirdgen. Again, it's usually some Chevy Racing hat greaseball putting a $2 engine in a $3 trashball car, and parting it 6 months later because the rat's nest of wiring was too expensive to deal with.

HA! I haven't seen a single checkbook hot-rodder on this website. What a breath of fresh air it would be to see a car painted in a booth by a real professional once in a while.

-----

I don't know what it is, but Camaros as a whole tend to attract a certain kind of person; someone who thinks the cars should just be thrashed and trashed and thrown away. I see this across all generations, from 2nd to 5th. It's like Camaros for some reason--by and large--seem to attract wanna-be Billy Badasses who just beat the hell out of the cars. Even 5th gens--every single time I see one, it's filthy and is being driven hard. The 5th gens will suffer the same fate that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gens have--they will fall into the hands of the well-deserved stereotype and be complete trashballs in 20 years, hacked and neglected. But, most of the Challengers and Mustangs I see are clean, tastefully modded, and taken care of and seem to be babied.

We get no respect because we have no respect for our cars, or ourselves.

lt1zr28

You must be speaking for yourself.All of my vehicles get much respect as do I

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I don't know, that may be overgeneralizing. There certainly is that element. Maybe because the cars are still cool to people and a lower end example can still be gotten for pretty cheap. I do see alot of nice ones around though, and lots of nice ones here.

I do admit that superior restorations are very rare with our cars. Perhaps because so many pristine, low miles, 3rd gens are still circulating. Who knows.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

puma, I have to admit, many times I've read your posts and can't figure out why you own a Third Gen. Maybe these aren't the cars for you? The people you claim to see owning these cars is something that myself and many others don't see much. Matter of fact, most that I know of are garaged and kept nice, if not mint. Drivers that need work are few and far inbetween, like my RS. I intend to have a little restoration fun with that car someday though. I'm not saying what you're talking about doesn't exist but IMO you're exaggerating. Maybe you see these things in your area of the country, but my IROC-Z came from MN and it was a garaged, very well cared for original that scored 92 out of 100 points at a few car shows. So, your area can't be the problem then and you seem claim that cars like this barely exist, yet there are tons of nice cars on this board from all over. What I do see as a problem though, is people that talk like you with low opinions of what you have, trying to further beliefs and stereotypes that are becoming outdated or are just plain ignorant sounding. These were cars of mass appeal, the cheap base models do not speak for the top cars, which are far more likely to be treated good. Also, if a person with a brand new $35,000 Camaro SS doesn't wash his car for some reason at this time of year with lousy weather and all, they're low class people? I guess the same could be said for Mustang and Corvette people too? Maybe as soon as a piece of dust hits their cars they rush to the nearest car wash making them among the high class? I'm all for the insane cleaning of cars, but really, come on already. Let's stop all the childish rhetoric.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1. Yes, and it's still happening, because all of our cars, low end or not, are thought of in your way of thinking, "cheap throwaways".
2. Don't know if I'd say that... There are a lot of people who have seen and remember "Knight Rider", and others who have a soft spot for a curvy body. Problem with our generation is that the cars came along when the cheap Jap crap junkboxes were getting popular (you could almost say the beginning of the "tuner" generation).
3. Well, that's what happens when the government forces GM and the like to comply with engine-strangling EPA regulations. We weren't the only ones in the late 70's and 80's to have smog-choked, overweight pig cars.
4. You seem to conveniently forget that your Z28s and TAs weren't very fast before the TPI came out (you forget the "top-of-the-line" Crossfire cars of 82-83 that were ridiculous to maintain and were slower than my V6). But, then, to you, any engine NOT having a TPI or better is worthless, so...
5. So, where's the respect for the base models and low-end V8 cars, hmm? It's STILL a third gen, whether it's got an I4 or an L98 under the hood.
6. Yes, the point of the F-body was an affordable performance car. Which also meant improved gas mileage and lower insurance (on the smaller engines). You know, the whole cost of ownership thing?
7. Well, of course the first gen is going to lose... Our cars handle better and generally weigh less with just as much power.
8. -No opinion here- Except for the Nova was pretty much a no-go car (no, literally, they had to change the name in Spanish speaking countries because No Va means "no go" in Spanish), so any hot-rodding done to it is an improvement.
9. No, the general public needs to see more third gens on the road that aren't completely wasted POS cars that have been beaten and slaughtered. THAT is what will improve the reputation, not swapping a V6 for a 572...
10. Wrong again. If ANY third gen can be improved, it should be, unless it's the aforementioned beat-to-crap car (no matter if it has an LS1 or I4). Again, more nice (not DECENT) cars of our generation are what will improve the general image of our cars, whether they be an LB8 (that would be a 2.8 to you) or LO3 or L98. If it's got a running engine and a reasonably straight, mostly rust-free body, why not take care of it and save it for someone who may want an F-body in the future, rather than ripping the decent parts off of it and condemning it to the crusher?

I have seen quite a few cars in the J/Y that would still be nice if someone hadn't condemned them to rot (and no, not just V6 cars). Barely touched, inside or out (barely picked over), but rotting due to sitting on grass and dirt and in the rain and snow. That is what is giving our cars a bad name, because most people just think they're cheap throwaways.

I see a time coming rather quickly where those guys with those huge V8s that get 12 MPG on the highway are going to be BEGGING for a V6 car that looks between decent and nice. But, if we keep scrapping the engines and the cars that go with them...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

The few thirdgens I do see are beat to hell. I saw an IROC last week and about rubbernecked it because you just don't see them anymore--not surprisingly, it was on its last legs, just like the last 5 or so thirdgens I've seen. Perhaps your area is different, but around here when there is one to be seen, it's beat up badly. Are there exceptions? Sure. There are quite a few nice cars on this board, but for every nice, mint one, I can find you ten "projects" from members who could barely scrape together the low ball offer. Just again today after this post I read yet another thread worshipping tractor enamel over in the body forum--I have never seen that on any other auto forum.

I like this place, and I like the cars--despite the Fischer Price "My First Interior" these are great cars with perfect proportions and a timeless look. But so many thirdgen owners think jacking up the rear and throwing a carb on it with $50 used Weld wheels is cool, when it really just looks terrible. In other camps, how often do you see that? I can't remember the last time I saw a Foxbody on drag wheels--unless it was a real drag car that ran 10s.

Honestly though, look at the posts here. It's project after project after project thread that end up going nowhere but the junkyard or the classifieds being parted out. I can count on one hand the number of projects on this board that have been seen through to the end; it would be phenomenal to see more builds like those by Spike-Z or whitedevilTA, but you simply don't, and we all lose. I just get tired of opening every thread with optimism only to find it shattered by a hopeless car that's really just prolonging a death sentence. This is the flagship thirdgen website and we've got numerous good cars being parted out in the classifieds, numerous Rustoleum/roller/tractor/spraybomb threads in the body section, and we even have a sticky in the exhaust forum for true dual exhausts which simply don't work on our car and are of absolutely no benefit over the stock exhaust setup.

For the record I don't have a low opinion of what I have, I love my 170 hp turd of a car. I just wish more people loved their turds as much to actually make a whole-hearted effort beyond a rattlecan or at absolute best, Maaco. My philosophy is that if you can't afford something, don't do a half-*** hackjob just because ("I'm going to paint it right later!").

I'm sorry, but our stereotype is not outdated. 4/5 cars are parked on grass in a backyard, not even a driveway. I remember seeing one set of pics, one guy had 6-7 ratted IROCs parked on dirt with a trailer right next to them. Whatever, but it's just the classic example of people buying a bunch of junky cars that have no hope, when they could buy just one decent car to begin with and focus on that. If it isn't that, it's the typical young guy cycle--young guy scrapes together low ball offer for a project, gets it home, finds a rat's nest and holes in the floors because they didn't have the forethought to look before they bought it, they slap some bondo on it, then realize the rat's nest is too much, then try to part it for a "better" car only to wind up with another car that isn't any better.

As for the fifth gens being beat, I'm not talking about winter filth. I'm talking about even in the summer, the cars are never clean, and always being ragged on from what I've seen. Deny it all you like, but Camaros attract a different kind of people than any other camp.

My real gripe is that I just want to see more people give a damn and respect themselves. If we as a community could pull ourselves together and pull ourselves up, we might actually break the mold. But instead, we just keep ourselves down in the name of decency and tact because nobody wants to hurt anyone's feelings and tell them that their spray painted interior looks terrible. The stuff I saw here a decade ago I expected. I thought that a decade later all that stuff would be done, but this place is exactly the same as it was a decade ago, and that's a shame. These cars are 20-30 years old and I don't see any improvement on the horizon from the time they were just crappy old used cars; they are beyond that age of being old abused cars, they should be on the upswing at this point in time.

The stuff that flies in this community simply doesn't fly in other communities. That's why the other communities don't have the same tiring bimonthly discussion.

DD9TransAmGTA

iTrader: (1)

Actually I see more beat up mustangs with brake dust covered rims than I see new beat up Camaros. Honestly I don't think I have ever seen a new Camaro beat up.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I guess it depends where you live... I used to work at a theme park where there were a couple other cars similar to mine. One was owned by a girl who had some major dents in the front end (a 91-92 no less) and had a SEMI TRUCK marker light hanging onto the hole for the passenger's side marker. The other wasn't much better.

I'll tell you another thing that bugs me... Those people with Birds that drive around with either one or both headlights UP all of the time. Come on, you can't go to a hardware store and buy a cheap socket set and a couple steel ball bearings and fix the motors? Or even go to a yard and pick up a couple used motors or a module? Are you THAT cheap? (I personally have a spare module and 2 spare headlight motors, with one steel bearing installed in place of the plastic bushings between the nylon drive gear and steel output shaft in each so I'm good for a while) Just goes to show how cheap a lot of people who own our cars REALLY are...

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

We're going to agreed to disagree puma, because my experiences have obviously been the opposite of yours, even in regard to Mustangs in good shape. I've seen way more messed up 5.0s than Third Gens to be honest. I just don't see the cars the way you do and don't know of anyone else personally with a like opinion. Maybe demographic is the factor here.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Around here its all the same, alot of beaten up Third gens. I can count how many nice ones I have seen driving around on one hand. While the beaten up, rattle can paint job, dented, and not running ones are all over.

I see alot of teenagers or young adults picking up Third gens, stripping off the A/C, Smog, installing some crappy stereo system and taking off their exhaust and driving around waiting to side swipe their ride and ending up in the Junkyard.

My ride is not something special and like I have posted before, its just a plain Base Firebird but its 95% nicer in its current condition that most that I have seen on the road near me.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Remember, strength in numbers. When more guys are running around in decent cars with decent paint and decent running engines (does it REALLY matter what engine?), THAT's when we'll be recognized. Until then, we're just the "white trash hillbilly crowd".

Let's just take care of our cars, no matter if they have the 2.5 or a 6.2. Can't afford it any longer due to certain situations? Sell it to someone who can. If it ends up in a yard, so be it. It's out of your hands. I think most of us would rather sell our cars whole than watch it pass through the crusher, or cut off parts of wrecked cars so that others can fix theirs, since there seems to be a shortage of some body panels (full quarters, anyone?).

scottmoyer

As IROCZTWENTYGR8 said, Minneapolis has many nice thirdgens. My car is from there, his car is from there and I know of plenty more!!!

Here's some from Minneapolis. This is just a few and there are many more:

NowhereFast

I don't know about trailer trash, but it seems many third gens are driven by kids in high school that can barely afford to buy and keep the car running, no less fix it right. Then the cars are get cheap paint jobs that are done with rustoleum or enamel; cheap fix its to keep the car goin'; and get crap engines out of old cars that are worth nothing, and perform worse then stock, due to a lack of knowledge about automobiles. "Well, this is a carbed 350, It must be better than my stock 305".

The kids beat the **** out of them until they die, then move on to other cars.
*Of course, there are exceptions, myself being one of them.*

I made a point to find a car that was completely stock, so I know what I have, and any modifications are done by myself, and done right.

There are plenty of examples on this site, and we are supposedly enthusiasts, imagine what others could be doing.

lt1zr28

Does every Third Gen deserve a chance at being saved?
We seem to be all over the place here.Can we bring it back
on target.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

What's off target??

lt1zr28

Its about the Thirds.Not the people driving them......