Coyotesa

I have been searching the cost on ls swaps everything I find seems to be from like 5 years ago. I currently have a 98 Trans am in great shape and I want to sell it and buy a 3rd gen (I miss my 87 T/A), I want to know what in this day and age the cost of a ls swap is especially with the cost I have seen most of the 5.3's selling for.

Again I have been reading everything I can find till my eyes bleed but alot of the information I find is like 5 years old.

Here are some pics of my current Trans Am.





Thanks,
-Buddy-

Prokilllsx

If you intend for it to be as nice as your current ride then you can expect to use up whatever you get for the ram air plus.
It's really hard to give you a $ amount because there are so many factors. My advice would be to use the threads you have found to create a parts list. Then check with suppliers on current prices for those items. Whether or not you perform the labor will be a big factor too. Other than the cost of swap components you will also need to figure out which engine/trans you want and add that in as well as the price of the 3rd gen and any restoration costs.
Ours turned into much more than I would have ever imagined. We could have bought 2 or 3 really nice cars like yours for what it cost to make the GTA the way it is. The sentimental value of the GTA far exceeds the investment though so I'm very happy about the path we took. For any other 3rd gen, no, I wouldn't have done it. At least not to the degree of this one.

Coyotesa

Thank you for your input I love your car I saw it on LS1Tech if I find a nice GTA with a 350 I might just keep it that way for awhile. But finding a gta with t-tops has not been to easy. I would think a 5.3 swap would be pretty reasonable as far as cost.

Here is my car that I miss so much .


-Buddy-

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Does the info being 5 years old make it less helpful? Check out some spreadsheets others have posted and compare

Coyotesa

Can you point me in the direction of these spreadsheets? I havent run across any of those.

-Buddy-

Prokilllsx

You're welcome and thank you! A 5.3 swap will save you maybe around a grand to 1,500 with initial investment towards the engine itself. While they make good numbers and can come close to LS1 levels with equivalent mod.s, I say look at the total investment you will be making and decide if it's a corner worth shaving to save 2k or less. If you don't care about timeslips and won't be racing the car I say go for it. Plus, for 2k there are several mod's you could do to go beyond where an LS1 would be in stock or near stock form. Heads and cam for example.
You may want to check GTAsourcepage's classified's for a GTA if that's what you want. BTW, I love both your 4th gen and the 3rd you had. I'm usually not a fan of the 2 tone's but yours is the 1 color combination I like. I actually considered it for the GTA until Dad's eyes told me what he really thought. lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

People that are proud of how much money they saved are usually the people that post numbers and are most vocal, so it skews the data to the low side. The average person often spends more - sometimes a lot more. And you're not getting a good feel for the range of costs because people that spend more virtually never post numbers.

There was a thread a while ago where "average" people were sharing numbers and the totals were landing between $7K - $10K to do an LSx swap. The "average" person doesn't tend to fabricate and buys mostly bolt-on parts kits, but is willing to do their own wiring harness and fuel system, and will do a couple light mods to the engine.

t_raven

I spent very little on my swap other than the cost of my donor and the stuff I chose to upgrade (upgraded my clutch, put the donor trans in my 01 and rebuilt another t56 with Tick stage 2 kit for the GTA). The stuff I upgraded could've remained stock and been used from the donor for free. I paid $2800 for the 00 TA the engine and trans came out of. You can't find a pull out engine and trans for that cheap. I know it's hard to find a donor but if you can, it's a good way to go, especially after you sell everything else. I haven't sold anything off my donor but I bet if I parted it out I'd have close to a free engine and trans.

I rewired the harness myself (cost of solder and shrink tube), used Spohn mounts($90), and made my own trans cross member, intake pipe, and y pipe (maybe $120). I used the tank and fuel filter from the donor ($10 for new filter), put new ends on the ac lines($20), I forget which upper radiator hose I used, but I found one at Oreilly that worked for the lower hose.

If you pay top dollar for a pull out, buy swap headers, y pipe, and crossmember it's going to be quite a bit more.

t_raven

Oh I was gonna share my thoughts about using a 5.3. The problem I see is that by the time you get a car intake, oil pan, and front accessories, you could probably find a LS1 for not a whole lot more. Especially if you want a t56. People want so much for a t56 by itself, by the time you had one with all the 5.3 stuff you could probably get a LS1/t56 combo for not a whole lot more. Depends how cheap you can get a 5.3 and how cheap you can find an LS1, but just going off average prices I've seen when I was trying to decide between the two, it didn't look like it would save much to go with the 5.3

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Good advice if T56 manual trans is in your future.

MMroc86

I was researching this as well & I think if you do it yourself you can do it for around 3-6 depending on what you pay for the engine/trans. The harness is another big factor, I think the plug & go one is about 1k. But there is a good writie up somewhere on here that pocket wrote a while back with pics!

Another thing I noticed is that alot of the people that spent 10k were the ones that added heads/cam as a part of the swap. Theres a ton of info on here about how to do it, since its been done a bunch of times now. If your skilled enough, you can pull it off for a reasonable amount of moolaa.

GL

Coyotesa

Wow 6k-10k is too much for me . I never thought it was that high but I guess the cost of all the extra stuff you need is what drives it up. I see so many non fbody swaps I didnt think it would be so high for a similar platform (older fbody).

I have alot of resources when it comes to fabricating at getting help with the swap. My buddy just put a 5.3 in his lt1 and is working on fabbing up the turbo for it.

Around my parts I can get a ls1/t56 combo for $2500-$3500 on top of the car which I would see about $3500 for a decent thirdgen. Then I would have to save for everything else I would need for the swap.

Considering everything said in this thread I would probably go ahead and buy a nicer thirdgen with a 350 so I could enjoy it while I save for the swap. I am not a racer I just like the power and efficiency of the LS motors.

Thank you everyone for your input. Also does anyone have a link to the spreadsheets the guy earlier in the thread was talking about?

Its kind of crazy I have a nice LS1 powered car now just not in my preferred body :\ .
-Buddy-

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Near $1000 just for headers, so it ads up quickly.

Rich92 RS

iTrader: (16)

Love the 98 TA, always liked them more than the 4th gen camaros. As everyone else said the cost adds up quick. I had the luxury of a parts car and still know I spent a good amount of money. I got the thought; "well I'm here, might as well replace/upgrade it". One day I'll get the courage to add up the receipts

Heres the link to the spreadsheet. mille_3

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Not kind of crazy.... it is crazy.

You have a nice car with the engine you want. Leave good enough alone and have fun playing with the car you have. The ONLY reason I'm playing with a 3rd gen is because I still have the first car I ever bought and I can't bring myself to sell it. If I didn't have that emotional barrier then there is no way in hell I'd be playing with a 3rd gen.

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

i have a spreadsheet from my 91 Lsx/6 speed build i did (my last project) and another one currently going together for my 67 LSx Bird, i can post but ONLY if you understand the hours upon hours and Gallons of alcohol consumed while searching for the best deals i could find... ONE example... i got an LS1 oil pan complete for $75 shipped.... on CL, we're talking like obsessive compulsive LS part hunting, in no means can every swapper do it, but if you have 4 solid months of cold crappy weather for part hunting and collecting, then all the power to you and you might pull it off. ill post tomorrow and fill in anything that might be missing as i have the build thread on NECF with swap costs as well.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I totally understand. I once traded a 93 z28 for a 92rs, nobody could understand why.

MMroc86

Thats almost a no brainer!lol

Intrested in these spreadsheets with pricing & parts list.....

Coyotesa

Thank you all for every response, I made a real mistake when I sold my thirdgen. I am a child of the 80's and grew up watching knight rider and airwolf lol. When I was in highschool my father and I test drove a maroon t-top GTA and I wanted it so bad but couldnt afford the payments with my $4.25 an hour job.

No doubt I have a nice T/A right now but something about the thirdgen just calls to me! My father and I are planning on starting a early second gen T/A project (70-73) with a LSX motor. But that project hes going to be mostly funding.

Thanks for the spreadsheets. Currently I am a stay at home dad and that why the cost is such a big deal but next year my daughter starts school and I can get back to work So I think if i can find a nice thirdgen now and pick up a motor trans combo the rest I can save and buy slowly.

-Buddy-

Prokilllsx

Have you considered trading your 4th gen for a 3rd gen that someone has already converted to LS? It's understandable if you wouldn't because you want a full on project and to do everything yourself, but there should be a few to be found, and in various stages of completeness. That should give you a nice converted 3rd gen and leave plenty of room for you to tinker.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Airwolf! Madew me want to be a pilot! Have you watched it lately? What a crappy show!

I hear ya on the choices, I got a 3rd gen and a 71 camaro, I've had every body style but these are my favorites.

Coyotesa

I would love to do that but I havent seen any swaps around me, and none for sale. I think I have a better chance of trading for a Ferrari lol.

Yes actually I am watching both knight rider and airwolf on netflix lol. Now a days they seem crappy but back then they were AWESOME lol. My first car was a 1970 camaro that got about 9 miles to the gallon...

-Buddy-

Caleb Taylor

after everything ive got priced out for my ls1, t56 combo/swap im at a little over 5k, thats a little over 3/4 completely done. somethings i dont need, and some things i want in there, and some things i still havent added up. so if youre just looking for a driveable ls swap? id look at 6k+ shouldnt be anymore than 8, depending on what problems you run into, if any, wish you luck!

Coyotesa

Do you have a build thread yet?

-Buddy-

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

I'm into my 408 LS3 for about $7k, but that accounts for $2500 stroker kit, $380 throttle body, cam and kit ($600), tune ($350), custom harness ($900), etc... I figure my restomod will cost about $16k.

Coyotesa

16k! I bet that thing is going to be a beast! Buy you have alot of aftermarket work on yours I am just looking into all stock ls1 swap. I would maybe do some minor mods to it later but I dont race so stock is really good for me .

-Buddy-

BTW: do you have any pics of what you are building?

Caleb Taylor

nope, not yet buddy. still in the middle of getting it to be a car. LOL bought it for $300, itll be a few months.

Coyotesa

Nice sounds like you are putting alot of blood sweat and tears into it, cant wait to see it .

-Buddy-

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

It is actually going into the shop to start on all of the bodywork this weekend. Ill start a build thread at that point. Winter isnt the best of times to be painting, but I can get all of the body work and the suspension and interior stuff done.

1fas92

iTrader: (1)

subscribed .....

Curious to see what you end up doing.....

STREETDEMON

make a budget and stick to it. price out everything you will need, use full list price and use used/new classified parts where you can. when you have finished your budget add 30% and that will be a little more realistic on what it will cost.

don't forget to factor in selling parts you are taking off your current car, the most important thing is to be realistic.

i came in way under budget, like 1500, but i found a 13k t56 for 1600...shipped, and also bought a lot of other stuff on the cheap/fab'd my own. i saved for 2 years before starting the build and collected parts from september through december while i was doing my build.

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

^this - You should see my ever expanding excel file. 14 worksheets with every minute detail listed out, including shipping and tax costs. Ive seen quite a few budgets go "over" simply because they did not calculate shipping, handling and taxes.

I would say consider that a bonus. Maybe use it toward upgrades. What is hot right now, trust me, might not be hot in the future and you'll have a hard time giving it away. Then two months after you sell it everyone will want it.

I've got ten years on mine (though 5 of those basically due to kidney failure haha) but I have everything from an SS hood to powdercoated subframe connectors and a complete 4th gen interior sitting in my garage right now... For years actually. Buy on the cheap, when you can. Do what streetdemon suggests.

Coyotesa

I am definitely taking what everyone said into consideration. Everything will come down to how much I find a thirdgen for and how much I sell my fourthgen for. I guess if I wasn't picky I would have already found a thirdgen but...there is always a but lol. I want a 87-92 GTA with T-tops preferably black. There are quite a few firebirds in ok condition but I have always wanted a GTA so I figure best not to settle since I wont be happy in the end.

Looking at the cost of most of the GTA's I will be lucky to find one in good shape and afford any of the ls swap parts so I would really like to find a 350 equipped one.

-Buddy-

Jstcrzyengh

iTrader: (2)

The only "firebird" that Ive ever truly had an infinity for was the digital dash GTA's. They are one sexy car. LsX in there and you've got the car ill be building after this 'vert is done. One piece of advice I can give you. Build the engine separate from the car. Make sure its completely done and ready to drop in before pulling the engine. I wish I could drive my car while waiting on parts. Definitely dont put the cart before the horse.

wheelie250

Before I get burned hear me out. I have had two forth gens, an 00 SS and an 99 Z28 B4C. I have NO idea why you would want to sell your current TA to buy a third gen and swap an LSX into it! Dont get me wrong I love my 91 Z28 but whole reason I still have it is because my other cars were worth more and could turn them fast. The forth gens are just superior. LS motors, t56s. more refined. Unless you just have money burning a whole in your pocket, and a shitload of time on your hands and want a project, I dont understand why you would want to sell your current ride, pick up a third gen and bassically swap in all the the stuff out of the forth gen that makes them great then turn around and say have 25k in a car thats worth 10k. To each there own, and good luck on everthing you plan on doing.

Coyotesa

Nothing your saying is wrong, the fourth gen is newer technology so of course its better, I enjoy my current Trans Am I just really like the look of the thirdgen more. Same reason most people do restomods, Like the look of the old but the convinces and technology of the new.

-Buddy-

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

I think it depends on what your true goal is.
If u swap in a 5.3/60e. It will not be anything special. But if you just want efficiency of the ls motors. This or even a 4.8/60e with stock fbody ex. Manifolds and a ls1 intake will get it done. Relatively speaking, this would be the most economical and easier of the swaps

A ls1/t56 will significantly raise the price, if you want lt,bolt ons,etc.
But will you really be happy with a basic swap,gotta ask yourself.

I have owned many 4th gens. My current car is a 00 camaro ss. It runs 11s on motor, bolt ons,cam,clutch,etc. With ac and full weight. Etc.

But i miss being in a 3rd gen. I can build a 3rd to beat the ss in the speed dpt. But i will never trade it or sell it to build a 3rd gen.
Im also lookung for a 3rd gen to build up. I buy and resell ls motors. I have a few to choose from in my garage. So i got that covered.
Just need a hardtop iroc z....

jaybdaboat

You could find a roller or a nice v6 for cheap.

Everybody here has an ls or wants a ls including me lol
But $5000 is outta of my budget
So maybe I'll look into this $450 DNA motoring turbo on my 92 l31

Coyotesa

Well maybe when I am ready to but a ls motor I will hit you up. I texted a guy a couple of cities away from me that I was talking to just before I bought my 4th gen.

He has a 1989 black with tan interior GTA, it does have 170k miles and if I buy this one it will be the highest mileage car I have ever owned. He said the motor is on a rebuild already and I remember it has a spot of rust on the drivers door where it probably was hit opening it and left were some bare metal was showing. He stated the undercarriage was clean no rust. I had pics but I dont have them anymore and hes going to send me some more I will post when I get them. I remember talking him down to $3500 so I think this should be a good project car.

-Buddy-

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Id be more wary of a low mileage car of that age than a high mileage version, besides with a swap, mileage doesnt make any difference because you're only keeping the chassis

V8Rumble

iTrader: (2)

That's a very good point - I'd say figure on $6k as a starting point (depending on what you're hoping to build), & if it happens for around that amount, call it a bonus. (As I typed that, it occurred to me that while these swaps definitely have a "floor amount" when it comes to costs, there really isn't a ceiling...)

That sounds about right. I have a big pile of receipts that I hope to God that I never add up, but I'm fairly confident that I'm somewhere in the $12k range - but then the engine ($3500) & built T56 ($2k) ate up half of that just by themselves. Add in the clutch, PP, flywheel, intake manifold, mounts/swap parts, exhaust, fuel system, serpentine setup, wiring, etc... Yeah, it can get out of control pretty easily...


Did a lot of that myself - Wife finally told me I had to stop...

If you do, you're more brave than I am...


THIS is one of the best tips here - there's pretty much no way around the "floor" that I mentioned before, but if you put some time & effort into it, you can have a pretty dramatic effect on the total cost of the project. I've been able to snag some really good deals by keeping my eyes open...


That IS a no-brainer!!

It's probably also worthwhile to review a bunch of the build threads to see what kind of work is involved - and for every step/process, have the question in the back of your mind 'Am I fairly confident that I could do this?' That'll help "flag" the tough parts where you may need to hire a shop/professional. Also ask 'Do I have the tools needed to do this step?' - THAT is one of the "hidden costs" that never seems to get mentioned, but that cost is no less real...

Good luck Coyotesa, we'll be watching for your build thread next!

(And, if you're curious, my 'somewhat out-of-date' build thread can be found right here...)

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

Gotta factor in at least 1000$ for a fbody oil pan with tray/tube and those ss swap headers. Unless u can build your own. Or use shorties or something stock.
I think buying a complete running wrecked car or parting out car. Is easier if you want a 6spd swap. Piecing it from scratch is a hassle imo. The m6 donor car will 90% or more of what you need. Plus u can reuse harness,pxm,pedals,brake parts,etc. Sell off the rest.

Coyotesa

There is a lot I can't do myself but I have a lot of help from friends and the local fbody club I am in. I know there is no way this will be a quick swap that is why I am looking for something I can be happy driving as is for awhile.

I will be happy if I can buy the car and the motor/tranny for the swap out of what I get for my fourth gen.

-Buddy-

3rdGenFreak1227

Im doing an 86 lsx swap...just started reading this thread and figured I'd pull out my receipts and add them up...bad idea lol...I started with a $400 85k lq4, and the only thing I bought brand new was the f-body oil pan kit ($200), and I still have $1900 tied up in this motor which was pretty much a stock rebuild with some maching work done on the heads ($364) and ls1 intake (200) with 1.8 roller rockers + new ls7 lifters ($300) and the polished valve covers ($130), and ls3 springs ($65) plus all the associated gaskets, rings,oil pump, paint etc. I haven't even bought the $800 headers, the $80 dollar swap mounts, harness and all the other crap I need to buy. Stuff adds up fast. I would say 5-6k is pretty accurate for a t56 lsx swap if you are going through the motor even for a slightly modified or stock rebuild. I have noticed the parts are usually twice (if not more) as expensive as Gen I sbc parts. I love having a project though!

Prokilllsx

$200 for an LS1 intake? Ouch. I guess I was lucky to get my LS6 for $300

3rdGenFreak1227

Well that included rails, injectors, and TB...was the cheapest one I could find around here...I think I found it on LS1tech.com

Coyotesa

Awesome breakdown on you cost thank you for sharing it.

-Buddy-

396lsx

Another thing to look out for, and I may have just got lucky here. Check out the local mechanics, I got my 6.0 block for free (spun rod bearing so they pulled it) found someone selling a complete ls2 rotating assembly for 200$, new bearings for 130$ and porting the 317 heads myself with thinner gaskets, I'm looking at 500$ for a complete 6.0 lq9 by the time I get all the gaskets.

Coyotesa

I have seen a shop here in town that does rebuilds and had some engines for sale that they rebuilt and the customer never paid. But I havent seen any LS1 from them.

-Buddy-

Brando5641

iTrader: (-1)

I did the same exact thing you are doing right now. I sold my 99 T/A M6 to build by camaro. I love my camaro to death and i will never sell it but i wish like hell i didnt sell that trans am. If i was to do it over i wouldnt have gotten in such a hurry and just saved up to buy the swap stuff.
One thing about it tho is the 3rd gen is 1000X better to work on the LS motor in it. (if you ever have to work on it lol)

Dont go 5.3 put a 6.0 in it if you decide to go threw with it. The 5.3 runs good in stock form but it wont impress you. I havent taken mine to the track but i would guess its a 14.0 or 13.90 car. I also have crappy gear (2.73) but i get great gas milage 29-30 highway.

I have got between 4-5k in my swap. Little stuff adds up quick. I also am running the truck acc so i saved money there by not having to buy f body acc.