TP355Z

More progress this weekend. Got the k-member painted, gas tank stripped and painted and started cleaning up the Moser 12 bolt. Part of me wonders about the wisdom of re-using the gas tank when it took a day to refurbish it - but Hawks charges $150 for used and $250 for a repro tank - so I think I made the right call.

When I pulled the drums off the rear axle I was greeted by a caked-up-oily mess on the driver's side. Turns out when the original owner (me) put the tube-seals in the axle he pressed in the face of the seal which deformed the seal lip and created a leak. Luckily the local Advance Auto had 1 seal in stock AND the installation tool. So that's taken care of now.

I've got to finish stripping the rear axle - then I can paint it and get it off my workbench.

Iroc'nthe87

iTrader: (5)

Reason?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

They overheat and shut down with extended use. This could be catastrophic with an aggressive tune

TP355Z

This weekend was the annual fall swap meet - I figured what better way to spend a Sunday morning than looking for cool car parts. My expectations weren't wholly accurate though.

30% of the parts were used car parts
20% were tools (most appeared to have "fallen off a truck")
20% were antiques
10% were toys (1990s vintage WWF action figures anyone??)
10% were dirtbikes / quads / lawnmowers
10% were clothes / flags / posters with sayings on them that aren't appropriate for repeating on a public forum

One guy had a plastic tub with small rocks in it. The sign next to it read: "ROCKS - $3 - INCLUDES FREE CAN OF BEER!" If it wasn't so cold I would have bought a rock...

Another guy had an Edelbrock Smokey Yunick cross-ram intake for a SBC. Price was $750 with a carb. Cool.

I spotted a Boss 302 block with splayed main caps. The price wasn't listed but I could hear the owner complaining that: "Every time I tell someone the price they walk away." I did not ask the price...

The most amusing was a 4th Gen Camaro: when the owner fired it up he had to keep his foot in the pedal until it would idle on it's own. I couldn't tell whether there was a lifter tick or not over the sucking sound of an intake vacuum leak. He bragged to a couple interested parties that the car had "Over $20,000 in mods alone". Apparently none of that money went towards a tune because the car idled so rough that the exhaust tips wobbled. He looked trustworthy though...

The highlight was a 30,000 original mile 1988 IROC in bright red. It must have had a 305 because it was a manual. GORGEOUS. Too bad I don't have $14,000 kicking around...

At the very least it was neat getting to walk the local race track.

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

What track was this held at?

TP355Z

Stafford Motor Speedway (CT)

I was intentionally vague to avoid starting a flame war, but since you asked I guess I'll just put on my driving-suit and wet my hair...

IROCgiraffe

iTrader: (3)

No, LOL.... I was just curious as I wasn't aware of an "active" track in CT, at least in the metro Hartford area or remotely close. That one is in the corner of the state, but at least ya'll got one.

TP355Z

Yeah - they do a lot to keep the track busy and in-use Spring through Fall. That track has a ton of history too - I'm glad it's still open.

There was even a 1:10th scale RC car oval track on the premises up until a few years ago!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Sounds like most of the swap meets Ive been to. Junk that looks to have been dredged out of a lake forsale at brand new prices

TP355Z

Weekend update time. First: the credit-card burning has begun! Got a new fuel sender. Also ordered my Walboro 255, an adjustable panhard bar (poly/poly) from Founders, as well as their panhard bar relocation kit. I'll post pics of the suspension parts when they arrive this week.

TP355Z

Also spent some quality time on the Moser 12 bolt. I bought a box ($50) of abrasive wheels to clean it off after burning through a half-dozen cheapie pads I got at the swap meet last weekend. Well wouldntcha know that the swap-meet pads were of such poor quality that 1 GOOD pad did the remaining 80% of the axle.

So I'm left with 29 grinding discs...eh, I'll use them sooner or later.

TP355Z

Presents at the front door when I got home today - just asking to be unwrapped. Ok - unboxed. But some of them had brown shipping paper. Does that count?

Adjustable PHB from Founders, in addition to their relocation kit. VERY happy with the visible quality of their products. Will comment later on fit and finish but right now I'm happy.

Also got my Walboro 255 pump. The biggest surprise was how much heavier than the stock pump it is. That's going to cost me a few hundredths of a second in the quarter...

camaro1185

Nice! Cant wait for this one to be done!

TP355Z

I can't wait for it to be done either, but at the same time - working on this car again has been such a great thing...I kind of don't want to see it end. Being in that garage, the same garage I first built and painted the car in, the same garage that my great-grandfather built back in the 1920s - reminds me of so many memories.

I remember wearing the same old zebra print Giant's jacket to stay warm while working in the fall/winter. (I still have that jacket AND still wear it when I work on the car).

I remember - despite the jacket - freezing to death in the winter before my father put the 2 propane heaters in.

I remember my cheap CD player constantly playing Jimi Hendrix greatest hits, Disturbed, Linkin Park, and all the stuff I listened to in high-school.

I remember when I stopped at the garage late one night on the way home from a friend's house. My father and I had just finished hooking up the TBI on the 355 I built that afternoon, and we both agreed that we would fire it up the next day. I don't know why I stopped by the garage that night, maybe just to make sure the door was locked? But when I stepped inside I could smell exhaust - and it was then that I knew I had built a motor and IT RAN. My father probably wanted to get it running himself so that when we turned the key together I'd be able to hear it run without issue - but I foiled his plan.

When I asked him how the motor ran - with a big grin on my face - he said "It runs rough". Of course it did. The car had a 305 ECM with 350 injectors and I did nothing to tune it.

But it didn't matter. It RAN. And I built it.

TP355Z

Since I'm reminiscing...I realized I had pictures of the 383 LT1 that almost ended up in the car back in 2005. The heads and intake received significant porting, the bottom end was balanced, and the cam was ~.550 lift / 225 duration with the 1.6 RRs I was going to put on. It would have been an awesome motor, but as I said at the outset of this thread - I ran out of money and time.

But now BOTH are on my side. And nothing is going to stop this build.

I find it ironic that I had an LT1, abandoned it, and am now considering an LT1 as one of my two paths for the motor. Begging your pardon if I'm repeating myself but...

Option 1: Gen 1 SBC W/First Fuel Injection TPI (Target 400hp / 500ftlbs)

Option 2: LT1 (Same Target)

I like the idea of doing an LT1 since (1) it's much less expensive to get the EFI and (2) I could finally learn how to tune, with minimal cost.

There are some good deals on LT1s near where I live...so I may end up picking up something soon.

You'll all know as soon as I do. I'd love to get a low mile LT1, upgrade the valve train, swap the cam, and never touch the bottom end. I've had enough motor builds for the time being...

camaro1185

Its great to hear the passion you have to building the car in that garage with memories. My passion has kinda dwindled a bit since I have put so much time and effort into the car and its down at least once a season because something is broken or not working. I really hope one day I get that passion back an can build a killer car like many on this site.

As I said, when its done you have to come to some of the "CT hotspots" we always can use a couple more 3rd gens and especially camaros. Im the only camaro (3rd gen) in my group of friends I hang out with on fri/sat nights over the summer.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Id go with a LT1. Miles arent a big issues, just be sure to hear the car run before grabbing it. Pop a valve cover and see if its brimming with crude oil. Runs good and cleanish inside means its coming home. A complete engine with accessories should run in the $500 neihborhood

The most Id do to a LT1 is cam. If you're intending to learn to tune, I highly recommend a 24x conversion and to use the LS1 PCM. No more opti woes and whatever you learn can be applied to an extremely popular control system. Quick way to make your knowledge make your money back plus some

TP355Z

Hey Pocket - we'll have to talk about the conversion mentioned in your post. Thanks for the feedback. Right now it's a matter of available space and money with regard to the motor. The garage build is sucking up the money and the other garage doesn't have much free space Camaros and rear axles strewn about and what not. But time is on my side.

Got a lot done today in the garage. Finished painting the rear end, stripped and primered and painted the torque arm, and continued to strip the bottom of the car. I can almost see a light at the end of the tunnel with that, so it's encouraging.

Try not to be jealous of my paint booth. It only cost me $1300 to build!

Some of you may wonder why I didn't upgrade the torque arm. The way I figure it is this - the stock arm will increase driveability (compared to an aftermarket tubular setup) without having much of an impact on performance. If I were drag racing the loads would be much greater, but for a road race car I think it'll do okay. We shall see.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The stock TA can handle a ton of abuse, I ran my original for years until I bent it into a U at 12psi. For aftermarket, if its not adjustable, its a waste of money. If it doesnt get the stress off the tailhousing, its a waste of money. I also ran a stock LCA/panhard combo for years. Only upgraded because the founders kit was crazy cheap and adjustable

TP355Z

What do you do with your car Pocket? I don't plan on dragging but I will be doing some road racing (hopefully) - that's why I made the mods that I did.

Ordered more stuff today...my credit card droops now if I hold it up from one end...

1. New parking brake cables
2. Poly bushings for a-arms
3. Alstom SFCs
4. New gas tank straps

In another 7-10 days it should be Xmas morning all over again. I need some basement projects, and putting together the k-member and gas tank should do nicely. Then I can set them aside until I need them.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

My 92 is a street car

You'll be fine with your setup. People dont give the stock parts enough credit

TP355Z

I tend to agree with you Pocket. For a mild motor (300-350hp) doing street duty, most people wouldn't tell the difference from stock to aftermarket (maybe with the exception of NVH). However, when I put the stroker, 275 rear tires, and 3.55 gears in my Mustang I needed the aftermarket upper / lower CAs to avoid rear steer.

The Camaro - being lowered already - seemed a good candidate for some rear suspension mods to correct the geometry. I like having some adjustability - and I believe the PHB relocation effectively lowers the cars RC, which should improve cornering.

Or, y'know, the car will feel just like it did before I rebuilt her. Who the crap knows. haha.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Aftermarket doesn't change drivability unless you hard mount it without an isolation bushing.

I don't know about road race being easier for a street car. I had a supercharged Corvette that couldn't hook hard enough in first gear to matter, but it would stick so hard going into second gear that the rear suspension would completely bottom out on the snubbers. That's a hard slam on the suspension and it was with street tires.

TP355Z

Here's my take on it...

Most aftermarket torque arms are going to be designed for strength over NVH (noise / vibration / harshness) - at the least you'll likely go from a rubber bushing to a poly bushing and from a stamped arm to a boxed or tubular arm. This lends itself to more noise from the rear axle and vibrations making their way to the shifter/tranny. Very annoying IF you don't need the added strength. For a mild road race / strip car you probably don't. But people buy them anyway.

That said - I think you can get away with it (the stock torque arm) easier with a road race application. It boils down to this:
- Drag racers run their throttle on/off
- Road races modulate their throttle

A drag car will see those instantaneous peak torque loads (if it's hooking up) on the torque arm whereas a road raced car will not and this is the behavior that twists a torque arm and lower control arms.

In contrast, if you're punching the gas at low speed on a road course, it's probably on the exit of a turn, and you're more likely to spin than hookup and "launch" hard. That's why they modulate.

Qwk - your experience with your Vette seems to support my theory. Full throttle rips bottomed out the suspension - that sounds like a better representation of a drag racing scenario than a road racing one.

The same is NOT true for sway bars and the panhard bar obviously. Those components play a minimal role on a drag car. But due to the high lateral G-loads in road racing, they become VERY important to how the car behaves. Thus my purchase from Founders last week!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Just for kicks and grins, have you ever seen this?

http://www.unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/

TP355Z

Yep! Very well thought out torque arm. Too bad it isn't directly applicable to the 3rd gen cars without some modification.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

There is a 3rd gen version but it is unclear to me how it mounts.

TP355Z

It's been a little while since I last updated - unfortunately last weekend I got diddly-squat accomplished. Was too busy managing a locally occurring phenomenon: gravity-assisted, seasonal arboreal shedding. (Leaf cleanup)

I did get my Alstom SFCs, as well as the hardware to rebuild my front a-arms.

The T5 came back from the shop too. Turned out that the "fresh rebuild" had a broken shift fork. I'm glad I knew enough not to trust the moustachioed wife-beater-and-sweat-pants-wearing chap that I bought it from.

The goal this weekend is:
- Get the Moser re-assembled w/brakes installed
- Get a-arms pressed together so I can reassemble the k-member
- Assemble the gas tank

I say I get 1 of the 3 done. The new garage will be habitable by this weekend, so I've got to move the Mustang and the truck / plow into it since there has been snow-talk on the news already. YUCK!

camaro1185

Where did you get it rebuilt? The guy in wallingford?

Also, yep, I hear ya about the snow...frickin hate that stuff.

mwfrels

Old write-up on here that may be of some interest: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...decoupled.html

M

TP355Z

I use Don's Ring & Pinion of Stafford CT for all my axle / transmission work. He's as honest as the day is long and VERY good at what he does. I'd go to Don over a full-blown shop any day.



Oh - and today the garage doors went in. Tomorrow it gets power and next week siding. WOOT!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

They actually have a 3rd gen version now. Look at their site.

TP355Z

Bellhousing and shift fork on their way - thank you ebay. Aside from some cleaning I think I'll be g2g with used parts...

mwfrels

Yes...thanks! I mainly linked it because Dan Burke's personal website is now just a shadow of the good information he used to have in it regarding work on his third-gen Firebird. The information in this site's thread is still pretty good even though dated. Once you skip over the banter I believe it is still a quite usable guide.

M

TP355Z

Not a great day. Woke up to a freezing house because my pellet stove malfunctioned. 1 personal day and 3 hours of tinkering later, the house is warm again.

Anyway, here's this weekend's update. Got the Moser back together, then pulled the cover and got it cleaned up for a fresh gooping. The gear oil was a little murky - but it was also 10 years old and the FIRST oil it ever saw sooo...not bad.

Also painted all my nuts/bolts for the k-member and dropped the arms off at Don's Ring & Pinion (plug) to get put together.

Today I ordered the trans x-brace as that was the last thing I was missing. Should have kept my old T5...oh well. Live and learn.

TP355Z

Nothing like a holiday weekend to get back in action. Got a lot done over this Friday/Saturday.

- Gas tank assembled with new fuel pump and sending unit. One small hiccup...<someone> (this guy) threw out the locking ring by accident. The cost of stupidity? $16 at Advance Auto. Live and learn...

- K-member assembled with rebuilt arms. In the process I realized how much my motor mounts had drooped - so I'm debating putting in new OEM mounts versus poly.

Feel free to weigh in on this one internets: for those of you who have poly motor mounts, do you find them to transmit more motor vibration to the driver? I'd expect that they do...

- Cleaned / painted transmission crossmember and cleaned / assembled tranny to bellhousing

TP355Z

Obviously the tranny / tank / k-member didn't take two days. I spent most of yesterday grinding / stripping the rusty spots on the bottom of the car. While the undercoating did its job for the most part, I did notice that the rear 'frame' (from the axle back) showed signs of exposure to salt. Probably years and years ago.

I'm glad I found it. I'll do what I can to clean the inside of the rails - then after the bottom of the car is painted I'll apply an inhibitor to stop any further spread.

I'm basically at the point that it's all about grinding/cleaning. I'll have a few weekends worth of that before it's time to paint. But once the painting is done, I can put the tank and rear-axle back in the car.

Hopefully by spring time I'm ready to spin the car around and stick the nose outside to be sandblasted.

TP355Z

I'm starting to think Craigslist isn't going to cut-it for whatever motor I end up putting in this car. Everybody wants high dollar for motors that are question mark boxes. Kinda like the ones from Super Mario Brothers.

After a couple months of credit card burning fun I've got to let up on the spending, BUT that won't stop me from planning the next phases of the build.
I need to start contemplating where I'm going to mount all the ancillary equipment:

- Oil catch can
- Motor oil cooler
- P.S. fluid cooler

I've also got to start putting the plan together for the motor. I'm less and less interested in the LT1 and the trappings it brings. Not sure what I'm going to come up with, but I've put together a list of what I *think* will make for a reliable, budget-build race motor...

- 6,500 RPM Redline
- 400hp/400tq
- Rev Kit
- Stud Girdle
- ARP Throughout
- 10:1 Compression
- Air Gap Intake (If I go with a 4bbl EFI system)
- Windage Control / Baffled Oil Pan
- Captured Oil Pump Pickup

I dunno. Too many variables - but I've got plenty of time to think...while I grind the rust off the back of the car. Yuck!

Open to suggestions from anyone who would like to chime in

TP355Z

I've been scouring craigslist pretty regularly looking for "the one". You all know what I mean. That car that has enough of the things you've been looking for that you're excited about it. In this case, it's a 1995 Z28. Details...

High Miles (150k)
New Clutch
New Opti
New Water Pump
New Fuel Pump
New Fuel Tank
LT1 / T56 Combo - WINNER!
SS Rims

I'd be able to use a LOT out of this car and learn to tune for very little cost.
I look at it this way: EZ-EFI ($2,200) <<<< Z28 LT1 / T56 ($2,000).

Going to look at it Wednesday after work - will post results and pictures. The guy said I have dibs on it.

Looks like this thread may belong in the LT1/LS1 swap forum after all.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The trans, axle and wheels are worth the asking price. Id go for it

TP355Z

WHEW! What a day. Left the house at 6:10 AM for work and got home at 8:10 PM. Definitely a long one. But you guys aren't reading to hear me whine.

It took a good 2 hours to get to Monroe CT where the car resided.
Heavy traffic? --- Check
Miserable weather? --- Check

TP355Z

Once I DID arrive I was surprised at what I found. A very in-tact, unmolested Z28 in great condition despite the mileage. The CARPET was even clean and tear free.

I feel bad that I'm just going to gut it. Is "buyers guilt" a thing? I think it is...

I had him do a cold start and the car fired up perfect, no bad noises at all, the LT1 was really nice and quiet. He pulled the nose into the garage so I could view the engine bay. Wiring harness looked in-tact with no obvious hacking/damage. He claimed that it had a new water pump and opti in the last 2 months - judging on the road grime on the water pump I'm inclined to call on that one. He also said the clutch was just done, but when I rested my foot on the pedal I got a pretty distinct pulsing feeling. again. I did notice that the radiator fans were running the whole time - despite the heater controls being "off". Will have to find out whether that's normal or not. I doubt it.

We went for a quick spin around the block - he drove. No check engine lights, no misses or vibrations (at least up to 40-45 mph) and the tranny didn't make any bad noises either. At this point, I'm pretty much satisfied. The way I figure: I'm paying $2k for a motor and tranny (take that Hawks!) and getting a bunch of other parts to use / sell for free. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

His asking price was $3k and amongst all the "recent work" he stated the car had a sub and amp in it. I told him to keep them and offered him $2k on the stipulation that he deliver the car (which saves me the ~$200 in taxes and temp-registration from the department of motor idiots). He's hot to trot, so the plan - for now - is that he'll deliver the car tomorrow night.

Here's some pics - the lack of light and snow falling doesn't help, but you can see that the paint is good, the SS rims are present and accounted for, and the interior is clean.

I'm going to have a lot of parts to sell from this ole' girl.

Should I have some kind of memorial service when I roll her into the garage for surgery this summer? Maybe read a few versus from Smokey Yunicks Power Secrets and say a prayer in the name of Click and Clack?

86gn

iTrader: (3)

looks like a great deal to me, I bet by the time u part it down that motor and t56 will be had for real cheap

TP355Z

Well - the Camaro never came today. Here's the breakdown, but the gist of it is this: it's always better to be cautious.

I messaged the seller today asking when he would be bringing the car up tonight. He said he would call me at 5 PM. Come 6 PM I get a bunch of picture messages of paperwork. He explains to me that the title is at his father's house and they're in a fight, so he has to get a new title. Apparently the CT DMV told him they'd get him a new title overnight, which is impossible. He asked if I still wanted to take delivery of the car because apparently, "the paperwork I filled out today is all you need" or whether I wanted to wait for him to get the title tomorrow. He then informed me that another guy was coming to look at the car tonight and that he would sell to him on the spot if he had the chance.

At that point, between all the lies about the work done to the car and the apparent NEW lies about the vehicles paperwork, I told him:

"The other guy can have it - I'm done."

3 hours later he texts me asking if I wanted the car still because he has a guy that will trailer it up tomorrow.

"No. I'm done."

This guy was either dishonest or he was a total spaz. Disappointing since I was really excited about the T56, but its a lot of work off my plate.

Back to the drawing board...

TP355Z

It's been an interesting couple of weeks. I spent more hours than I care to count laying under the Camaro scraping, wiping, sanding, and otherwise making a mess. The good news though, is that the bottom of the car is ready for paint. The goal wasn't to take it to full metal (would take FOREVER) but to rough up the primer and strip any spots showing rust (which weren't many).

The goal over the next week is to clean (denatured alcohol) and paint (Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator). Then I can start putting parts BACK on the car.

TP355Z

On other good news, I DID end up buying the Z28 I looked at a few weeks back.

The guy couldn't afford to get a new title because he owed back taxes. I managed to convince myself that the car wasn't stolen, so I made him an offer "without title". He says he'll get the title and then I can pay him the remaining $500, but I think we all know that will never happen.

In the end, I paid $1500 for a complete T56-LT1 car. I'm pretty pleased. And just to protect myself, I met him at a neutral location for "the drop" - so he doesn't know where I live. The next day I sold the T5 I was going to use - it covered 1/2 of the car cost. NICE.

By this spring the Camaro will be a roller again, so the green Z28 will go in the garage to be torn down. Can't wait.

camaro1185

Holy crap....

BTW the t56 is the best mod I ever did to the car. It feels great being able to hammer the gears and not have to worry about breaking it....well with my horsepower. That was my fear with the T5 I bought and almost installed behind my 350.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Couldn't you just run a Carfax on the car to verify its background? There are other similar services too. I don't think they are very expensive. Seems like it would be a cheap solution to making sure you don't get yourself into trouble with the law.

Barlow8869

iTrader: (1)

nice read ... looking forward to more

TP355Z

I didn't run a carfax report because I didn't want to (1) wait and (2) pay the money. I know that's penny-wise and pound-foolish, but that was what was in my brain at the time.

What I ended up doing was verifying through a combination of online and in-person DMV resources that the car (1) wasn't registered as being stolen and (2) the previous owner of the car was who the current owner claimed it was. I also called the previous owner and left him a voicemail to contact me if there were any issues with the car. Supposedly he's on vacation so we will see whether I hear back from him.

Thanks to all for chiming in and following this build. From time to time I wonder whether I'm just documenting this build for my own sake, but it's nice to know that someone out there is at least enjoying the pretty pictures. lol

Tonight I plan on bead-blasting all the misc hardware from the back/bottom of the car. Tomorrow I'll paint all my misc hardware and prep the bottom of the car for paint. Then Friday it's on like Donkey Kong. There's enough paintable area that I think I should be able to put on multiple coats in one sitting (eg: by the time I've painted all the way front-to-back, the front should be dry again). I've got the dehumidifier running in the garage and will turn the heat on tomorrow to keep it dry. It's 50 F for the next few days in CT with high humidity - so mothernature isn't helping me out any...