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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I'm going to use hard nylon fuel lines from the frame to the engine, and from the tank to the fuel filter (I'm using a Corvette fuel filter.).
I think the nylon lines will provide a safe, clean, factory look (I don't like the way that AN lines look; sue me.). I'm using some Dorman fittings to adapt to the factory flare fittings, and some plastic push-lock fittings to connect to the fuel rail and filter.
Originally Posted by dixiebandit69
I guess you could; I've used hose clamps on higher PSI systems with success, but I don't think it's the best way to do things.
If your factory lines only have "a lil rust*," and aren't leaking, I'd try running with them.
Worst case scenario: It starts up in your garage and you find a leak.
Then you have to replace the line, which you were about to do anyway.
*Exactly how much is "a lil rust?"
I'm not giving you sh*t, I'm from Texas, and I use "lil" all the time.
Is it just surface rust, or did the car come from some place where they salt the roads?
Originally Posted by cmiller2014
I'd also encourage you to run stock lines. Even if they have a little surface rust it's still your best bet. At the end of the day, braided steel line is still rubber house wrapped in shiny stuff. I used my stock line up to engine bay and ran braided line off an adapter. You can unscrew the hose in the engine bay and use Russel part number 644123. Super easy that way to run a short braided line from stock hose to LS fuel rail without having to cut anything.
I traced the lines, the feed line has the less rust and the return lines and others have the most..
Is the brake line too close to the header? Or would it be fine?
Ok. According the the youtube video. From the factory, its comes in between the lower control arms(a frame) and the member as on the picture. I thought about that but thought it was not a good places but I guess it'll be fine there
I plan to use 3/8 an lines on both fuel and return Flare the 3/8 hard line to an fitting and Reduce the an 3/8 return line to adapt to the 5/16 hard return line
Also, for those who have long tubes, did you relocate your fuel & brake lines due to them being kinda close to the headers?
The 5/16 is the return and 3/8 is the feed. As for where the lines run close to the headers, it looks like you wrapped yours. Get some heat tape to wrap the lines with, and make sure you wrap the headers as well, and it should be fine IMO.
if you need a new sending unit I bet you can walk into a junkyard and pull the carpet back on a few camaro sand find an easily accessible one. Most 90s 4th gens I’ve seen in the junkyards have access holes cut. I’m assuming 4th gen assemblies fit.
Nice job on your lines btw, they look good. Unless you have continuous power to the pump (I.e. the car running), your fuel pressure will drop. When I turn the key on, I get good pressure and it’ll naturally drop since you still technically have a return.
I have a Racetronix pump that is Hotwired to the alternator and when the car is running i have around 63psi. Key on it goes to almost 60 and will back off after a few seconds. Still plenty of pressure to fire it up and as soon as the car fires my fuel pressure is great for the duration the car is running.
My assumption is you should be good. Just leave a pressure gauge on it while car is running to be sure.
Nice job on your lines btw, they look good. Unless you have continuous power to the pump (I.e. the car running), your fuel pressure will drop. When I turn the key on, I get good pressure and it’ll naturally drop since you still technically have a return.
I have a Racetronix pump that is Hotwired to the alternator and when the car is running i have around 63psi. Key on it goes to almost 60 and will back off after a few seconds. Still plenty of pressure to fire it up and as soon as the car fires my fuel pressure is great for the duration the car is running.
My assumption is you should be good. Just leave a pressure gauge on it while car is running to be sure.
hmm, I haven’t tested my car but I’ve worked on vehicles with issues firing up or backfiring after they sit overnight and when checking for leaking injectors or back flow to tank I’ve had vehicles hold pressure for a while. They definitely didn’t leak down in a matter of seconds. None of these vehicles were ls set ups.
Obviously if you just turn the key on for a couple seconds before cranking you should fire up even if it loses prime. Would be nice if you had a 5.3 equipped truck to hook up to and test to compare pressure loss time.
From what I’ve seen, some regulators hold well and some don’t when engine is off. I personally use the in tank regulator with a 99-02 fbody plastic tank. IMO as long as you hold steady around 60psi running, you’re golden.
From what I’ve seen, some regulators hold well and some don’t when engine is off. I personally use the in tank regulator with a 99-02 fbody plastic tank. IMO as long as you hold steady around 60psi running, you’re golden.
I agree. As long as you’re getting desired psi running I wouldn’t think about it right now as long as you know there’s no external leak.
Nice job on your lines btw, they look good. Unless you have continuous power to the pump (I.e. the car running), your fuel pressure will drop. When I turn the key on, I get good pressure and it’ll naturally drop since you still technically have a return.
I have a Racetronix pump that is Hotwired to the alternator and when the car is running i have around 63psi. Key on it goes to almost 60 and will back off after a few seconds. Still plenty of pressure to fire it up and as soon as the car fires my fuel pressure is great for the duration the car is running.
My assumption is you should be good. Just leave a pressure gauge on it while car is running to be sure.
Originally Posted by Billgluckman
hmm, I haven’t tested my car but I’ve worked on vehicles with issues firing up or backfiring after they sit overnight and when checking for leaking injectors or back flow to tank I’ve had vehicles hold pressure for a while. They definitely didn’t leak down in a matter of seconds. None of these vehicles were ls set ups.
Obviously if you just turn the key on for a couple seconds before cranking you should fire up even if it loses prime. Would be nice if you had a 5.3 equipped truck to hook up to and test to compare pressure loss time.
Originally Posted by cmiller2014
From what I’ve seen, some regulators hold well and some don’t when engine is off. I personally use the in tank regulator with a 99-02 fbody plastic tank. IMO as long as you hold steady around 60psi running, you’re golden.
Originally Posted by Billgluckman
I agree. As long as you’re getting desired psi running I wouldn’t think about it right now as long as you know there’s no external leak.
Thanks for the comment. I tried to route it in a clear path and away from heat, although I dont know how the exhaust will be ran..
I will replace the hose and pump and put it back together and hope for the best.
Any suggestions on how to attach these factory Malibu fans to the third gen radiator? I forgot to get a radiator that has the clips for the fans to slide in...
From what I’ve seen you can make 4th gen dual fans and radiator cover fit the 3rd gen. Right now mine has a 3rd gen factory single fan but I do have 4th gen fans I just haven’t haven’t tried yet. Might be worth a junkyard run to buy 4th gen parts just to make it easy.
I can say after testing the fuel pressure on MANY LS powered cars and trucks, the fuel pressure should pick up fast as soon as you turn the key on, and should not bleed down any appreciable amount once the pump is off.
GM has a specification for this, but I don't remember it at the moment; it's supposed to be something like no more than 10 psi in 10 minutes, or something like that.
With that said, I've seen lots of vehicles that were driving around just fine with this problem.
Which pump are you using, again?
About the fans: I used Malibu fans (sorry, I don't remember exactly what year they were from; I just went to the junkyard with a tape-measure, and picked out the ones that fit my specs), but I mounted them to the radiator support, not the radiator.
Your fuel system pressure should be rock steady with pump ON and engine OFF. If it is not steady, then there is something wrong.
My stock LS1 in-tank F-body pressure regulator holds 60 psi at the engine fuel rail when the pump primes with key ON. That is the real regulated pressure. The engine sees 58 psi with engine running. The regulator is still regulating to 60 psi but there is a 2 psi loss between regulator and engine when fuel flows. Moving the regulator up to the engine would fix that.
With key OFF, my particular fuel system bleeds down to 30 psi within seconds and keeps falling from there. Apparently my check valve is worthless. Doesn't matter though. I just let the pump prime for a couple seconds before engine start up and fuel pressure will be where it needs to be.
I can say after testing the fuel pressure on MANY LS powered cars and trucks, the fuel pressure should pick up fast as soon as you turn the key on, and should not bleed down any appreciable amount once the pump is off.
GM has a specification for this, but I don't remember it at the moment; it's supposed to be something like no more than 10 psi in 10 minutes, or something like that.
With that said, I've seen lots of vehicles that were driving around just fine with this problem.
Which pump are you using, again?
About the fans: I used Malibu fans (sorry, I don't remember exactly what year they were from; I just went to the junkyard with a tape-measure, and picked out the ones that fit my specs), but I mounted them to the radiator support, not the radiator.
Nice job on your lines btw, they look good. Unless you have continuous power to the pump (I.e. the car running), your fuel pressure will drop. When I turn the key on, I get good pressure and it’ll naturally drop since you still technically have a return.
I have a Racetronix pump that is Hotwired to the alternator and when the car is running i have around 63psi. Key on it goes to almost 60 and will back off after a few seconds. Still plenty of pressure to fire it up and as soon as the car fires my fuel pressure is great for the duration the car is running.
My assumption is you should be good. Just leave a pressure gauge on it while car is running to be sure.
Originally Posted by Billgluckman
I agree. As long as you’re getting desired psi running I wouldn’t think about it right now as long as you know there’s no external leak.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Your fuel system pressure should be rock steady with pump ON and engine OFF. If it is not steady, then there is something wrong.
My stock LS1 in-tank F-body pressure regulator holds 60 psi at the engine fuel rail when the pump primes with key ON. That is the real regulated pressure. The engine sees 58 psi with engine running. The regulator is still regulating to 60 psi but there is a 2 psi loss between regulator and engine when fuel flows. Moving the regulator up to the engine would fix that.
With key OFF, my particular fuel system bleeds down to 30 psi within seconds and keeps falling from there. Apparently my check valve is worthless. Doesn't matter though. I just let the pump prime for a couple seconds before engine start up and fuel pressure will be where it needs to be.
Yes when I take the power off the pump, that's when it goes down very slowly... when the power is on it's at like 55-60 psi I believe
I have a few things covered except the fuel pressure thing..
those fans I planned to use was hitting the steering box .. so I went back to junk yard and found some dual fans from a 2007 charger and they fit... I powered them up and they work.. I also got a radiator support from a Cadillac car and cut a lil off to fit radiator... they came with screws and clips so I attached the fans to support and mounted on the radiator... I will put to washers on the screw so that it will sit how i want them... it came out ok..
I also tackled the transmission crossmember.. look at the pics and tell me if you guys think it will be fine as is or should I weld a piece to cover the mount screw... I put a lock ring and a regular washer on the mount screw
Kool. I will have a friend do it. It looks like it's not screwed in all the way but its torqued at 60 foot lbs...
What was the meaning of the two piece transmission?
What was the meaning of the two piece transmission?
Look at the pictures. See how your crossmember has two pieces: the big piece that bolts to the framerail, and the smaller piece that bolts to the transmission and is separated by insulators.
My way would eliminate that, AND make room for the driver's side exhaust.
Good work on those fans; looks just like it came from the factory that way.
Look at the pictures. See how your crossmember has two pieces: the big piece that bolts to the framerail, and the smaller piece that bolts to the transmission and is separated by insulators.
My way would eliminate that, AND make room for the driver's side exhaust.
Good work on those fans; looks just like it came from the factory that way.
Thanks about the fans. took a few hours to find some that fit perfectly.. I was going to get a big single fan but went with duals instead..
I got ya. I'll definitely look into fabbing it up. While my friend was here with the welder, we just went ahead and closed the gap and repositioned the pass side coil bracket.. I also got the ps lines and cooler done and mounted the trans cooler...
Lower hose I used a 05 Silverado 5.3 hose and upper hose I used a 02 v6 camaro. I have an fbody pump but the gates upper hose I got should have enough slack to catch the upper neck on the water pump.
for the throttle cable I used a lokar one but a lot of guys use a 4th gen one and merge with the 3rd gen. QwkTrp has a lot of info on a sticky somewhere for the throttle cable and could probably share some light here, but there are a lot of routes you can go.
Look at dixiebandits thread on the hoses. If I remember right he had to change brands on the Jeep hose because the first brand didn’t fit right...I hope I remember that right.
This is a hose I been bought but didnt think it'll work .I saw the part # from somebody that said it'll work with our swaps.. gates # 20893. Dont know what it's for. I guess its suppose to fit like this? Flipped other way around.. has kink ar water pump
Do you guys think these radiator lines will be fine resting on the radiator plastic part like this? It's going to the cooler and coming back to the transmission.
also what is that outlet for above the trans lines?
Probably but you could always get some 5/8 heater hose or however big you need to cut down the middle and wrap the lines with it where it touches. Makes a nice buffer
This is a hose I been bought but didnt think it'll work .I saw the part # from somebody that said it'll work with our swaps.. gates # 20893. Dont know what it's for. I guess its suppose to fit like this? Flipped other way around.. has kink ar water pump
This is probably the way for best fit.. no kinks
Oh crap, I forgot to mention that I'm using an LS1 water pump with spacers, which would put my water outlet at a different angle; yours seems to work, though. If all else fails, ask to go behind the counter at the parts store and try to find something that looks like it will work.
About the lower hose in my build: I followed Qwktrip's steps and used a Cherokee lower hose, but he used a different brand (Dayco, I think), so I had my parts guy cross it over to Gates (what I use), and basically it was a different hose (it was a 4th gen LS1 lower hose).
So I had him look it up by application, and got the right one. Pretty weird.
Probably but you could always get some 5/8 heater hose or however big you need to cut down the middle and wrap the lines with it where it touches. Makes a nice buffer
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
My own experience is that braided stainless hose cuts through about anything it touches.
Originally Posted by dixiebandit69
Oh crap, I forgot to mention that I'm using an LS1 water pump with spacers, which would put my water outlet at a different angle; yours seems to work, though. If all else fails, ask to go behind the counter at the parts store and try to find something that looks like it will work.
About the lower hose in my build: I followed Qwktrip's steps and used a Cherokee lower hose, but he used a different brand (Dayco, I think), so I had my parts guy cross it over to Gates (what I use), and basically it was a different hose (it was a 4th gen LS1 lower hose).
So I had him look it up by application, and got the right one. Pretty weird.
Gotcha all . Thanks.
What is this outlet on the radiator go to?? Its identified by the yellow dot. Also what trans shift cable are you guys running?
Be ready to replace that rubber cap every year; that's about how long they last, at least on a daily driven rig. (personal experience)
I'm gonna try and make the factory trans shift cable work; it better, because I bought a new one, and it's too late to return it now!
Originally Posted by Billgluckman
I used the factory shifter cable. I did have to change the shift lever. I’ve seen others who’ve had no issue though.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I like when build threads get this close to running and driving. I can just feel the excitement going into first start up!
Yes, i still have the shift cable in the car that was there when I put the lt1 in years ago...that shift cable round piece that attaches to the trans lever seems to big to fit it...
@QwkTrip yes, I'm getting close.. I hope the trans works though..
Yes, i still have the shift cable in the car that was there when I put the lt1 in years ago...that shift cable round piece that attaches to the trans lever seems to big to fit it...
@QwkTrip yes, I'm getting close.. I hope the trans works though..
my issue was that I couldnt go into all gears with the factory shift lever. I ended up pulling a shift lever off of an older third gen. I can’t remember the year, I think 84/85 6 cyl car. It allowed for a little “adjustment”
my issue was that I couldnt go into all gears with the factory shift lever. I ended up pulling a shift lever off of an older third gen. I can’t remember the year, I think 84/85 6 cyl car. It allowed for a little “adjustment”
I think I will be modifying my trans shift cable, its interfering with trans crossmember
To make my speedometer work, would all i need is an electronic speedo instrument cluster from like 88-92 camaro?
As far as I know there is no electronic speedo available in the third gen camaro.
There are the aftermarket gauge clusters (intellitronix I think is the name of one, Dakota digital the other)or diy gauge clusters. There’s also ways to convert mechanical to electronic, but I honestly haven’t really read into speedo options yet.
I hope someone answers with a good cheap option because I need to address this eventually.
I believe it is the 90-92 camaro years that had an electronic speedo. My 91 had one (it’s sitting out in the garage). That being said I went with a Dakota digital setup. Expensive but love being able to have custom gauge numbers provided in the cluster like fuel pressure and other programmable ones. Intellitronix is a lot cheaper though.
As far as I know there is no electronic speedo available in the third gen camaro.
There are the aftermarket gauge clusters (intellitronix I think is the name of one, Dakota digital the other)or diy gauge clusters. There’s also ways to convert mechanical to electronic, but I honestly haven’t really read into speedo options yet.
I hope someone answers with a good cheap option because I need to address this eventually.
Originally Posted by cmiller2014
I believe it is the 90-92 camaro years that had an electronic speedo. My 91 had one (it’s sitting out in the garage). That being said I went with a Dakota digital setup. Expensive but love being able to have custom gauge numbers provided in the cluster like fuel pressure and other programmable ones. Intellitronix is a lot cheaper though.
Ok kool. I think I'll look into it thanks.
Im waiting on a 82-92 third gen 700r4 shift cable and shift arm to see if I can make this work... its holding me up from finishing up
My '92 Camaro FOR SURE had an electronic speedometer.
The Firebirds got it earlier than the Camaros; you'll have to ask GM why they made that decision...
EDIT: To fit that cluster, you'd probably have to switch over to a later model dash board, since the clusters have a different layout. Then you'd have to redo the wiring...
And down the rabbit-hole you go.
04-04-2020, 04:49 PM
