Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Funny thing is, they more than likely make more money that all of us, combined....

TurbomanKnight

Dave, bring those caps tonight!

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Please post full details of meet.
Time:
Exact Location:
Link for directions:

8T9 BANDIT

we will all meet up at 9:30 pm, in aveneue sound parking lot. it is across the street from bennigans and sunset city shopping center. for you gps guys the adress is 1137 Deer Park Ave
North Babylon, NY 11703

for out of towners ,the easiset way is the southern state. to 231 north. and its the first parking lot on the right, cant miss it.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

For the rest of you follow link for directions:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...5&ie=UTF8&z=16

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

According to the map i am 1.7 miles away

8T9 BANDIT

rain date, saturday july 12th.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

is there a rain date needed, i havent checked the weather.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Boy I sure as hell hope so, I'm gonna be so hung over on Saturday....

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

No rain date needed.....

Now all I need is to get my car running ro I will be cruising in a mini-van.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

yea no go on my formula. the throttle body is leaking and needs to be replaced, and body work is far from done. I've been busting my ***** for this and it really sux. I will be cruising around in a honda accord coupe tho so at least i'll be right with ya.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I can fix that for you in five minutes, lemme know if you need some help....

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

I may be calling you to take a look at my car....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Are you getting any codes? What are the symptoms? Shoot me a PM....

bigchief

so how many people are actually going??? i know this this has been LONG awaited, and i really do wanna go, and i finally got my car back, i posted pictures here:

i dont haev a damn inspection though, i'm gonna try to get the inspection within the next few days though

8T9 BANDIT

^ i wouldnt worry to much about an inspection, there should be alot of us there. click here to join, and for more details-
http://z9.invisionfree.com/nythirdgen/index.php?

btw, formula looks awesome.

bigchief

yeah i'm already a member, thanks for the compliment, and i duno, i live in mineola, so its kind of a hike to deer park...... the car probably wont pass the emissions either lol

1985WS6transam

iTrader: (4)

Ive been driving around long island with no inspection for a while... I just want to get her running really good before putting it on the old dyno run inspection machine. I wouldnt worry about it really shouldnt be much trouble.

goomaan

iTrader: (2)

Dude the hike is not that bad. I am coming from Howard Beach, Street is coming from Jersey and soemone else is coming from Newburg NY; so the way I see it you have a pretty short trip.

Almost forgot... Inspection stickers are easy to get. Even running bad these cars are pretty clean on emissions.... (Unless you are missing your cat and stuff)

84redta

iTrader: (34)

i'm upstate new york, how can you fix it in 5 mintutes?! lol. i've been staring at my TBI for hours trying to find a hairline crack or something, retaken it apart 5 times to double and triple check gasket placement. Still leaking like a sieve! I've been working so hard on this damn car for the last 2 months to have it prepped and ready...it's so discouraging...grrr, eh nothing i can do about it at this point. Heading down to Riverhead in a couple hours. Will be there w/out car saturday night!!!

8T9 BANDIT

i got an inspection, no cat, running rough, dead injectors, without going on a dyno. my car never left the driveway

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

lol mine of from a new audi lol

TurbomanKnight

Check the injector O-Rings. My 92 Camaro had a injector that would leak when the car was off. Turns out the O-Ring around the injector was torn.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

How do you know it's a hairline crack in the throttle body? How exactly did that happen, did you go at it with a hammer or something lol? Do you know exactly where it's leaking, because it's more than likely coming from the fuel pressure regulator. Fuel enters into the regulator, is regulated based on spring rate, then the applied rate enters into the injectors, with the difference going back in the return to the tank....

The injectors squirt fuel into the barrels, and is then literally sucked into the combustion chambers. For FUEL to be leaking out from the casting itself, would mean you have a crack in one of the BARRELS, because unlike a carb, fuel never sees the inside of the casting. It goes to the regulator, to the injectors, then squirts down into the intake plenum. Your leak is more than likely coming from the regulator itself. Check the inlet and outlet fittings, and make sure your using teflon tape, then check the regulator itself, and make sure it's gasket (not the throttle body), the regulators gasket isn't leaking....

A five minute fix is GUARANTEED, once I was to get there, of course....

-Rob

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I've been staring at my Throttle Body for days on end, customizing it (see pics), and trust me, your casting does not have a fuel leak, UNLESS you ported too much, and punctured one of the barrels. The leak is from your regulator, either the fuel line fittings, or it's gasket....

84redta

iTrader: (34)

i thought maybe it was the throttle linkage, either that or the regulator. Like i said i rebuilt the entire TBI, the regulator looks fine. I took it apart to check the diaphram and it's perfect. I haven't adjusted the spring at all. It comes cascading down the side of the TBI on the driverside the worst from what looks like possibly above the throttle linkage (which would cancel out the idea of it being the throttle linkage), and a tiny bit on the passenger side. I do have a leaking passenger side injector, i do know that. I'm going to be going to a u-pull-it in a week or so to see if i can get a whole new TBI because i broke a screw off in the casting istelf for the throttle position sensor. Besides that at the u-pull-it i pay $25 for the entire TBI and that gives me the sensors and everything so.

I don't think it's at the fuel inlet/outlet because it's not in the back. I don't know...i'm so puzzled and frustrated with it. Until i have a new/replacement piece i can't diagnose it that much further without something to base it off as i've never had this car running perfect to begin with, lol. And no i didn't take a hammer to it, although i'm ready to :-D. Although i do know the passenger side fuel injector is leaking while the car is off, and it's fouling out plugs very quickly...carboned up and smothered wet in extra gas...i think i'm running a lil rich?! :-p, lol.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Cascading? That is very severe, and if it is really cascading, remove the air cleaner and let the engine idle for a few minutes to observe. Have someone shut it off, and continue to observe the top of the throttle body. You'll easily be able to determine where the fuel is coming from. If it is truly a leaky injector, fuel pressure will drop. Have you checked the fuel pressure to help rule this possibility out? Also, if it is cascading down the throttle body on the drivers side, this would immediately tell me that your not running a gasket between the throttle body and the air cleaner. Also, have you considered that the injector(s) are clogged, and is/are distorting the spray pattern toward the side of the throttle body.....?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

there is a perfect cone shape coming out of the injectors (which they didn't have until i cleaned them), there is a gasket between the intake and the TBI, a gasket between the TBI and the air cleaner neck...and a gasket between the air cleaner neck and the air cleaner. I'll sit there and crank it...it won't do anything but dump fuel into the motor, and then i stop cranking and you can see it cascading down the side after you stop trying to crank it...not like pouring...maybe less than an ounce spread out over the entire side cascading down. And i wish i could get it to idle...it fouls out the plugs almost immediately...just spent 4 hours doing all 8 plugs and wires...talk about a PITA!!

And the passenger side injector drips maybe one drop for every 5-10 seconds.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If the spray pattern is good, but fuel continues to trickle down the side of the throttle body casting, it has to be coming from the injector pod somewhere. Not necessarily from the fuel regulator per se, but from the injector pod itself. It has to be, there is nowhere else fuel can possibly come from but the inlet, regulator, pod and injector, in that order. Have you checked your fuel pressure, if so, what is it....?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

haven't had a chance too...i've figured out that order and i haven't had much of a chance to check it...i thought that it would be more of a physical defect...i don't understand how dismantling it, cleaning it meticulously, and putting it all back together with a rebuild kit would damage or ruin something. And like i said...the only thing i could think of is that i didn't put the injectors in correctly, but it doesn't leak there...it has perfect cone shape spray out of there...why would poor pressure cause a leak??? or you thinking too much pressure???

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

....

I'm looking at the pics you posted on the other thread, I would most certainly have to come there to inspect everything.....;

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Are you saying that it only leaks like this after being shut down....?

TPI-Formula350-

Looks like rain for the 5th.. You guys still going to Deer Park?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

thats what it seems 2 b doing....yes. thats what has me so puzzled...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The fuel pressure regulator has a very small hole drilled into the return line to bleed pressure off. This is why it is imperative to check your fuel pressure both during idle, and immediately after shutdown. If the TBI is leaking after shutdown, with the injectors off and the actuators closed, it sounds like pressure is continuing to hold/build, rather than bleed, and is seeping out elsewhere. A fuel pressure gauge is the key here to see exactly what is taking place after shutdown....

TurbomanKnight

*cough*

84redta

iTrader: (34)

i have checked the o-rings...i'm thinking about replacing them again though. Do injectors leak on their own? or is it a "it works or it doesn't work" kinda thing and it won't leak unless it's an o-ring? I've asked the TBI section and got no real responce and i never really got anything researching it.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Sam, if the injector was leaking the fuel would go straight down into the plenum. Also, if his injector(s) were leaking, fuel pressure would be slightly lower, and the chances of fuel cascading out of the throttle body casting (with lower than normal pressure) would be very slim. His fuel pressure must be checked first and foremost....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ That is an immediate sign of fuel pressure build up. If the car hasn't been running right since you bought it, maybe the former owner (either unkowingly, or purposely) installed a TPI fuel pump in it (which is why we need pressure tested). If the injector is leaking after shutdown, it's obviously bleeding off fuel pressure that the weep hole in the regulator can't keep up with. With the injector's actuator closed, and the engine turned off, fuel won't come out unless it's being forced out due to higher than normal fuel pressure....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Fuel pressure tested yet.....????? <Jeopardy theme playing in the backgorund)

Your leak is somewhere in the pod, and/or regulator itself....

84redta

iTrader: (34)

i've dropped the gas tank and cleaned it of all rust and undercoated it, checked the inside and kept it spotless/particleless, replaced the fuel pump with a $50 TBI fuel pump (reason i mention price is that all the TPI ones were $100 or more), replaced the fuel line to the fuel filter, replaced the fuel filter along with the o-rings for the filter, replaced most of the lines to the engine compartment because the previous owner was using hosing (no pinches in the line what so ever) using all high pressure fittings, replaced o-rings at the fuel input and return line (at the places where it goes to rubber lines for the TBI lines), and finally rebuilt the TBI completely after cleaning it meticulously so that it actually looked like it was made of aluminum instead of black gunk. Also replaced the fuel pump relay for ***** and giggles.

The car idled really poorly when i first got it because the CTS was bad, the rubber hoses that were used on the fuel input line were kinked and forming 90* angles so fuel was not getting to the TBI, the ECU was bad and wasn't even kicking in/priming the fuel pump, and the fuel filter was SHOT. I wanted to build a car that i could assume was reliable and since replacing/fixing all that was less than $200 i figured it was worth it. This is why i'm stumped and frustrated is that before all this it never leaked, and i've replaced everything...and yet it needs more...only thing i haven't replaced are the fuel injectors. I've used diode checkers for the fuel injector harness, perfect timing, perfect cone shape spray when turning the engine. Replaced the rotor/cap/wires/spark plugs. Everything except the coil. I've attempted starting the car maybe 10 times, i started and idled the car for less than 5 minutes the first 5 times...after that it just kept leaking and won't start at this point.

I got $20 that says that the plugs are carboned up again and wet from fuel (if i tryed started it at this point,obviously it should be dry by now). Plugs i pulled out were wet because i just had tryed starting it. They were wet so i freaked thinking it was oil and my seals were bad...but then i smelled it and it was fuel. So at this point i can't get it started to try and check idle. I KNOW that i got the right pump, although i'm not sure of the actual pressure so obviously till i get the guage i'm not ruling that out...i'm agrivated at this car the more and more i think about it.

Anyways...we still planning on tomorrow night?? Anybody know of an indoor/roofed parking garage or something?
----------
Car is in gilboa new york...i'm already in riverhead till tuesday, lol. little dilemma.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^... here is the thing;

Your engine is running way too rich as you repreatedly stated, and the fuel is cascading down the side of the throttle body. Fuel pressure must be tested as soon as possible, and in this state of overfueling, why would you even want the car started? All it takes is a little spark, and you've got one serious fire to deal with. First let's determine where, and WHY the leak is prevalent before you get it started. Your running way rich, fouling out plugs, with fuel spewing all over the intake manifiold. Pressure can't be this pegged with the stock regulator, and stock TBI fuel pump. I'm not questioning your ability, but careful inspection of all work completed needs to be reviewed immediately. Are you sure that the top of the pod's torx screws are in properly (all the way down)? They are not all the same length, and it only takes one of them bottoming out to create a pretty severe pressurized fuel leak....

To reiterate;

"I'll sit there and crank it...it won't do anything but dump fuel into the motor, and then i stop cranking and you can see it cascading down the side after you stop trying to crank it...not like pouring...maybe less than an ounce spread out over the entire side cascading down"....

^ You WATCHED carefully when the engine was shut down, and did not see where the fuel was issuing from? That's impossible. Think of it from a gravitational perspective. If the pod is leaking fuel onto the top of the throttle body's orifice, fuel would be routed to the front of the throttle body, then seep out where the rubber plug for injector harness resides....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

... are you positive you have the injectors seated all the way down? Did you carefully look at the top and bottom of the injector pod to confirm? They can be a PITA to put back in once you remove them.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

ok, i see what i'm saying incorrectly...it's cascading down the INTAKE from the bottom of the TBI...without the car here infront of me i was trying to visualize it. I'm pretty positive it's not coming from the throttle linkage...it's the base, and as you can see from the pictures above it's not just that side...it's coming front and driver side and passenger side. I'm positive about the torx screws...three towards regulator the longest if i remember correctly...or at least the back two (been a while since i took it apart and it's not infront of me). When i get back tuesday i will check fuel pressure. That was the last thing on my list of things to check because i was fearful of having to drop the tank again. Although thats the only thing that i could assume that would do that.

I know about the notch and it's such a pain to get it in, but i do know it's in because it won't twist more than an 1/8" once in that notch. Further diagnosis is going to have to wait till wednesday after work, i will get the guage while i'm down here in LI and then put it on when i get back...how do i appropriately check it?? When i turn it on and it primes check pressure or do i have to crank to test pressure?

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ This makes a world of difference now.....

First, try running a thicker gasket, and/or two of the same gaskets to see if this stops the fuel from issuing. If it doesn't, try to post up a picture of the throttle body base, like this....;

84redta

iTrader: (34)

ok but why is the engine fouling out the plugs though? I don't understand why there is that much fuel not making it into the engine. Should i be using the gasket that has 2 bores that the carbs use or the one that has the two holes and the opening inbetween the two holes. Or both?

I'm using the gasket right now with the bridged opening in the middle of the two bores and the only thing i thought twice about that is the fact that those vaccum lines aren't "sealed" persay, or am i incorrect on that thought. I wish i had the car infront of me it would be so much simpler to check and what not.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Remember, it's only after shutdown, when no vacuum is prevalent at all. With the engine running, there is so much vacuum that every last bit of fuel is being sucked into the combustion chambers. It's only when you shutdown where the fuel begins to spew out due to lack of vacuum. The plugs are fouled because your running rich, it sounds like you have VERY high fuel pressure, and/or the wrong size injectors....

The only possible way for fuel to be leaking out like that, after shut down, w/throttle blades closed, and no vacuum, is if the throttle bores are filling with fuel afterward (leaking injectors, or high pressure buildup), and the two tiny vacuum holes in the throttle bores are allowing fuel to seep through them. Just so you know, those two tiny vacuum holes in the bores themselves lead directly to the base of the throttle body (see pic posted in my last post again), they lead to the two holes in between the bores and the front of the throttle body itself, on it's base, and this is more than likely where the fuel buildup is cascading out from....

You definitely don't want those vacuum lines sealed if they're being utilized....

Which gasket are you using, this type.....?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

yes something similar to that, although i believe it comes in together a little more in the middle. But in summation yes...it's what came with the kit, although now thinking about it...i'm guessing so did the other one with the two seperate holes (bores) as i wouldn't have gone out of my way to buy it so i'm guessing the kit came with both, and i just went with what the advanced auto website basically told me to use for TBI.

And to my knowledge, just my passenger side fuel injector will leak (drip) after shutting off...wouldn't the right side of the engine spark plugs be fouled out and the driver side be fine...? In theory...? I know i'm probably looking too far into this...just trying to understand it completely.

89rsragtop

Is this cruise going to happen tonight? The weather doesn't look good.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

thats why i suggested a covered/indoor garage or something. I'm game for whatever.