Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Here's a pic!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Hum... sounds like my brother's car when we were trying to get an eaton to work on it and moving all the accesories to the other side, but we took a slightly different approach, we went to the scrap yard and looking through the pile we found like 9 of them for $3/lb. I think that they cost something like $7 or $8 total and we had plenty of stuff to cobble stuff together with. I believe that we ended up with a combination of ford explorer and full size truck parts (not positive though)

gtabadboy

My bro has a paxton supercharger and needs a new pump. Will a 255lph pump be enought for a 350 TPI car? Whats the stock pump rated at??

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well the bracket has been cut :lala: Now all I have to do is drill the holes, work out the length for the spacers, run the piping to the intake and run lines for the oil feed and drain. Then I just need to wait for ATI to get their asses in gear and finally send me the right damn parts for the FMU!! I'm so close I can taste it!!!



gtabadboy....not sure what the stock pump is rated at but the 255 I believe is good till around 600hp. Anyhow it's more than enough for most motors.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Been a while so I guess it's update time! After performing a complete roommate swap I finally have time and money to finish this thing up!

The bracket is drilled and installed with proper spacers. Almost done welding up new mounts for the new fan. Oil pan is tapped and ready to go. Intake routing is half 3" stainless half 3" PVC pipe (nothing like a ghetto blower install, course it was supposed to be budget) Need to setup the bypass valve yet.

Blower fittting changed once I got the bracket and spacers aligned. A bit of unaccounted for flex in the wooden bracket. Nothing a little light persuasion with a "special tool" couldn't handle, just a slight dimple in the fender well.

Decided to go with a water\alcohol injection setup for now instead of dealing with an intercooler. Went with a DIY setup pieced together with info from the turbobuick boards. No skimping here though, got a good pump and misting nozzles that came highly recommended. No windshield washer pumps for me!

Gotta go through my chip and tone down the timing a bit, then it's time for a final assembly of parts, check for oil and fuel leaks and head to Napa for a proper sized belt.

B4Ctom1

use a goodyear gatorback or dayco polycog (not a real cog but good) see about it here

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

IT RUNS! kinda......... Fired it for the first time with everything hooked up and it proceeded to immediately throw the blower belt. The alignment of everything looks pretty dead on, but I'm not very happy with the way the tensioner and idler pulleys sit. Belt rides too close to itself by the tensioner.

Gonna have to get a helper on this one so I can see just what is going on with the belt. I'm thinking I'll have to revamp my idler and tensioner setup.

Anyone with an 8 rib who moved up to a 12 PLEASE contact me if you still have your old 8 rib idler pulleys and would like to sell them. I really dont like the ones I got from NAPA.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Getting closer. Tensioner pulley was rubbing on the tensioner when it was running. Little light grinding on the tensioner and it fixed the problem. Looks like the alignment wasn't as good as I thought it was anyhow. Unfortunately while I was working on the alignment I snapped off the mounting ear for the alternator on the accessory bracket. Hopefully the JB weld will let me keep working on getting the spacers right. I'm quickly running out of time, It doesn't look like I'm gonna beat the sn@w. Just no spare time right now working 7 days a week.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Looks like I may have it! After replacing the accessory bracket I put it back together again and immediately started to strip the alternator mount again! Stepped back and pondered it for a moment and got the brainstorm of using the old accessory bracket as a template to check the holes on the blower bracket. Not a single damn hole was properly aligned Wish I had thought about that a long time ago. It bolted up just fine but as soon as I tried to shim anything the little angles added up and threw everything off. So I redrilled the holes bolted it all up again and it threw the belt. One quick attempt to shim and behold the belt stays on! I start her up and the belt stays on! Now I have to find the mystery noise, whatever it is it's loud as hell, but it aint the blower thank ***. Certain to be something stupid. But for now I gotta go change my undies More updates sure to come.

maniacc

Congrats Mark!!!:lala:

Glad to hear that your project is going well, get us some pics.

i hope you find your little mystery noise...

later
larry

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

It's official! It runs! Fired it up and gave it a few quick revs untill I blew the output hose off the blower, tomorrow everything gets properly tightened. Didn't have the radiator in yet anyhow. Sounds nice though, a bit quieter than I expected.

The noise turned out to be the oil return fitting, extended into the oil pan just a hair too far. Luckily it was literally just a hair and no damage done. Changed the oil and filter anyhow just as a precaution.

I eliminated the mount at the alternator so I only have three mounting points for the bracket. Couldn't use the hole under the alternator either because the neck of the power steering pump. I think I'm just going to fab up a bracket like ATI added to the D1, that mounts to the back of the alternator. My setup should give me quite a bit of room to figure something out. At least that way I should be able to remove everything without having to pull the radiator also.
Now I just need to wait for mother nature to cooperate a bit.

Thanks to everyone who helped me with info and pictures along the way!!! You guys rock :hail:

Guido

Get us some photos!!

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

ditto that .........

Guido

TTT

Photos??

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

I'm praying to have some pics this weekend. Between the holidays and problems with the Blazer, I haven't had any free time. Not to mention the fact that mother nature is a wh0re! Over 4 feet of snow and and an ice storn in the last week or so.

I am still having issues with the belt walking off but I am getting closer, just need to play with the spacers a bit more. At least now it actually has to run to throw the belt and not just crank.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Hope to see them pic's soon. I hear ya on the snow... We dont have 4 fet here but it sure sucks... Thank *** I have a heated garage.

86IROCNJ

Instead of creating a new thread in this forum i guess i'll ask here. How is that pump holding up Mark A 91Formula? Is it the Walbro GSS340M pump that you are using? What would you guys recommend as far as fuel pumps go? I would like to have one suitable for my n/a set up as well as a super charged set up down the road. If i can get away with something like that. I was looking at the set up from Racetronix, their "plug and play" kit. The one rated at 60+ psi. Any ideas, suggestions? I too want to see some "finished" pictures of your car man. That blower is pretty huge! How is it running too? Very nice work also. Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread either, it just came up in a search! Thanks for your time-Bryan

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Here we go

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

another

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Last one. It has run briefly now but I still have yet to get the damn thing aligned properly. It doesn't like to play nice. The only way I got the belt to stay on, the blower was cocked in a very unnatural direction so I really need to come up with a way to align everything properly, hell I've never done anything quite like this before so I'm just making it up as I go along. I'm convinced it's just a simple, or not so simple alignment issue. Just need some free time, heck I snuck out at midnight just to get these

86IROCNJ As for the fuel pump, it's been fine. It was a 255lph holley. Holley uses walbro, says so right on the pump =)

Guido

Niiiiiiiice!! Hey it looks really good sitting in there bro! Now if you can get your belt walking problems figured out, you'll have it all deep sixed!

maniacc

Way to go Mark!!!!

That looks awesome!!! Get that to stay on there and go have some fun!!!

later
larry

86IROCNJ

Thanks a lot for getting back to me. Pics look great by the way. Now you just need to get it running right! Good luck with that. Take it easy.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Nice man..... looks good.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well I'm pretty sick and tired of screwing with this stupid belt problem. Going to plan B. I have an old engine in the corner of the garage I'm going to dig out and put on the stand. I'll bolt all the blower stuff up and see if I can pick out anything obvious. At least I can have easy access to the whole setup that way. This is really pissing me off. Figures, the only thing in my life worth getting up for is gonna drive me to drink. Oh well back to my bottle of Jack......

86IROCNJ

Whoa..easy there killer! j/k do what you have to, to get that thing going right i guess. Just be safe if your serious. good luck man

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Before you go ripping the thing appart, do you have any gearhead friends that can look at it? Sometimes a second set of eyes can spot something that the first don't...

B4Ctom1

mark I saw a guy with cogs (and a few with regular belts) build bigger flanges for the front and rear of each idler and pulley to keep them on. also I have seen BOV problems (or lack of a BOV even if there is a surge valve) cause cars to lose their belts too.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

That sucks man, Keep at it though. You will figure it out.

You got it this far dont give up.

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

I'm assuming you've already held a straight edge to ALL of your pullies to make sure they line up.
Don't mean to insult your intelligence, just thought I'd mention it.

bbunting

I have had the common belt throwing mishap-was fine at idle to 3k-then into the fan every time-turned out to be the crank pulley-took it off, checked it with a straight edge, and torqued all the bolts to the same #-then it went away-just a thought-good luck- like the bracket!

PS- Jack and Coke-hold the Coke

bEtUr4dRustang

TTT
any updates?

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well the blower setup is coming out of the car and onto an old engine I have on the engine stand. I'm just gonna sort through and double check everything. At least this way I can check everything and have good access to every little thing. Got a differant crank pulley and I'm gonna take the new pulley and spacer to a machine shop and see to it that they're mated perfectly. Also looking to get an idler pulley thats wider with deep edges. After that I'm out of ideas again.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well I'm still at it. The blower setup is on the engine stand and I did find a few problems one of my spacers wasn't perfect and when I would torque down the bolt it was causing the whole bracket to bow slightly. Got the pulleys aligned perfectly, hook up the battery crank it and low and behold it still walks, throw ratchet across garage. Look for ratchet for 20 minutes. Find ratchet and 20 more minutes to find 9/16 socket that was attached to said ratchet. Fix belt on blower again. Go to hit starter switch, nothing. Look down, clip came off battery. Bend over to reattach stand up, whack head on engine. Feeling dizzy and angry punch engine, hand hurts more than head now, but at least it's not bleeding. Curse like drunken sailor for 20 more minutes. Sit down in corner to sob uncontrollably. Only to have water come pouring down on my head, garage roof leaking again. Angry again because I'm wet, too angry to sob any longer. Back to the problem at hand. Now that I have access to everything I decide to forcefully apply tension to tensioner. Wipe blood off ratchet, I guess hand was bleeding, and apply super human force and activate starter again. Hot damn belt isn't walking, regulate tension with ratchet, release tension belt walks apply more tension belt stays happily. Now giggling like little school girl. Keeps testing with additional tension on belt, cant contain myself anymore, laughing out loud and cheering. Oh look the battery is smoking, oh schnikes the the damn battery post is melted. Scratch one Gel-cell. Dont care, still grinning like I just got my first hummer. Time to ditch the automatic tensioner and fab up a manual setup now.

86IROCNJ

Slowly but surely huh?!? Same here, weather blows and car is under 2ft of snow still. Oh well. Sounds like it is time for you to go get a hummer! lol Keep up the work, it will come out worth it, well.. that is what i keep telling myself. Later

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Donno if you’ve started messing with that tensioner, but I’d try getting the ‘automatic’ one tighter before going with something stationary. Ribbed belts need a dynamic tensioner to absorb some of their flexing and stretching. With out one you’ll either not have enough tension to keep it from slipping or so enough that you’ll wear out bearings early.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

I'm milling over the possibilities now. I have my father looking into a few possibilities, he's a truck driver so he's looking into all the heavy duty stuff. Maybe he can find something workable. it was tough enough finding a tensioner to adapt in the first place. Other than a manual tensioner I'm about to run out of ideas

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Didndt paxtons come with a manual adj. tensioner? From looking at pic's Thats what I thought..

BlownBird

The Vortech's all come with manual tensioners too. They have always worked fine for me.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Thats what I thought also..

Just like anything else.. Just dot over tighten it. keep playin till the belt stopes walking and go a tad tighter.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Hum, that raises another question, how many rib belts do the paxton/vortech setups use?

To be honest, I haven't experimented that much with the 2 types of tensioners, but that is information that I got from an eaton engineer that I trust. I'm betting that the difference is that Eaton has to design things to work under OEM 100,000 mile durability tests, where paxton/vortech just need things to last longer then their warrenty period.

bEtUr4dRustang

The SN series Paxtons are 8 rib.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well it looks like dad just came through. The tensioner setup on his rig is 8 rib, and takes a large man to move it, or a smaller one two hands and a long breaker bar =). As luck would have it he got me one and it looks like it was custom made for the application. Not to mention the pulley itself is just the right size with a very generous ridge to help guide the belt so I can replace my other idler with a better pulley. Looks like all I'll have to do is drill a hole and shim the pulley about 1/8 inch. She may just run this weekend.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

sweeet.

Mark. that bracket does it bolt on infornt of the stock Serp. bracket and keep the Alt. and PS in the same spot?

A the stock paxon template I sent you completelly gets rid of the D. side factory bracket.

Thanks

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Yup, my bracket keeps everything in it's original location. I kicked around using the other bracket but decided against it, didn't want to move anything around unless I had to. Moving the alternator down under the blower like that other bracket looked like it would have been a clearance nightmare.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Well well, wouldn't you know, a total ****ing failure again. Got the new tensioner on and she still walks. A real big ****ing surprise. Apparently adding more tension only delays slightly the walking of the belt. I'm utterly lost now. No ideas left. I'm missing something big. I can run a straight edge across the pullies no prob. Everything turns freely, even under pressure. No flex that I can see.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Ok, which way is it walking off and on which pulley? I’m thinking that your bracket might be flexing under load and dumping the belt off the front of one of the pulleys. How thick is that aluminum and do you have any bracing? I know that on my brother’s blower bracket it was much shorter, probably half that length (making it stiffer) and we welded 2 big ribs across the back of it and it still flexes some under load. Most of his stuff is made of 3/8”and 1/2” aluminum.

I’m curious, what happens if you go way looser with the tension, like just enough to keep the thing spinning at idle? If it stays on then it would pretty much confirm that the bracket is flexing. Maybe pull the bottom idler off (if it won’t cause the belt to hit anything), that would probably put the tensioner right at it’s end…

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Mark do you want to attempt to try and use this bracket I have? and If it works you can make one?

The alt. location isnt really a issue. I had it mocked up on my motor. I can ship it to ya if needed. Just make sure I get it back.lol.

The complete kit is going to a buddy for His IROC. as Im not going Sced right now. I just got a 91Vert I need to swap everything from my 92Z over in. So Sc is on hold for awhile. Drop me a e-mail and let me know.

Later
Chris@cecoatings.com

Dan W

I've worked with belt driven equipment and belt alignments. These things can be a huge pain, even worse on an application that is not running at a steady speed. I the first thing you should do is make absolutly sure you are not getting any flex in your bracket. I think this is your problem... you should try to weld another piece of aluminum to the bracket to reinforce it. Make it a "T" shape running between the pullys. You could also use a peice of square tubing.

The bracket will tend to flex lots with any change in rpm so when it is not running it may appear to be aligned perfectly but when engine speed increases it can pull the alignment off. For that matter the load of the blower itself can cause the bracket to flex.
You could set it up slightly offset so when it is running with the additional load it lines up properly but this is just a band aid for a poor bracket.

When I set up these things I use a straight edge long enough to hit both sides of both pullies and a feeler gauge or a light to check to see if there is a space between the straight edge and part of the pully. The pullies I work with have to be torqued on evenly so its also important to rotate the thing to make sure its true all the way around. Make sure you have the belt and tensioner on when you do this.

When you run the engine, (being very careful not to get caught up in the belt) you should be able to put a straight edge on your bracket and see if it is flexing... Maybe have a friend blip the throttle a little while you check.

If you need to shim, little clippings from soda cans work great if you dont have real shims.

Mark A 91Formula

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the offer chris, but it looks like I actually got it this time. I disassembled the whole setup again and put it all back together carefully. Looks like I was getting some bracket flex with the new tensioner. It's all good now =) What I really need now is to get some spacers machined so I can ditch the cobbled setup I have now. So if anyone works in a machine shop and wants to make a few bucks on the side PLEASE email me. Just need to do up some simple spacers. My regular guy is out of town for at least the next month, probably longer and I wanna get them done in the next couple of weeks.