f1-R 383 done on the stand....
02-14-2008, 04:35 PM
#51
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Yes, it is a wet injection scheme. Alcohol and nitrous through the port nozzles. I still need to change the fuel solenoids to alcohol compatible versions, but the system will remain otherwise unchanged. I have done this in the past with great results (track officials, and tech inspectors don't like it though; 2 power adders). With this type of arrangement a 50hp shot acts more like 100hp with the added benefit of lowering air intake temps. It is real easy to over do it though, always be conservative. I have added a burst panels and a spring loaded blow-off plate to the manifold to help mitigate potential intake backfires (unlucky experiences in the past).
02-14-2008, 04:51 PM
#52
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
383BackinBlack,
What kind of ignition do you plan on running? With boost levels over 20psi and with excessively small plug gaps (i.e. .28-.32"), I had alot of problems in the past with spark blow-out. I have used MSD 6AL and 7 with very little success. I now use the MSD 10-Plus which is geared specifically for boosted/nitrous injected motors and is as close to a race magneto as you can get. This thing is really hot.
What kind of ignition do you plan on running? With boost levels over 20psi and with excessively small plug gaps (i.e. .28-.32"), I had alot of problems in the past with spark blow-out. I have used MSD 6AL and 7 with very little success. I now use the MSD 10-Plus which is geared specifically for boosted/nitrous injected motors and is as close to a race magneto as you can get. This thing is really hot.
02-14-2008, 05:26 PM
#53
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Car: 91 rs
Engine: Blow through 383, 10 psi, xr288hr
Transmission: Manual th350 ATI 3000
Axle/Gears: 3.50 9"
Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
You run the nitrous all the way down the track? You've had backfires with just a 50 shot? I only plan on running 15-17 psi at the very most, so maybe this is something I just shouldnt even worry about. Maybe ill just stick with my meth injection and a possible heat exchanger.
Stellar engine man, cant wait to see some numbers.
Stellar engine man, cant wait to see some numbers.
02-14-2008, 06:21 PM
#54
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
No, the nitrous backfires were from pushing the limits with 150-175 shot. It resulted in trashed manifolds and a less than stellar track visit. Yes, I run all the way down the track with a 50 shot. No problems to date, only a 60+ degree drop in manifold air temps.
P.S. I also intend to use another methanol spray nozzle located right in front of the blower inlet.
P.S. I also intend to use another methanol spray nozzle located right in front of the blower inlet.
02-14-2008, 06:28 PM
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Thanks for the complement. As I have yet to put this thing in a car, what clearance problems will I have? I saw the post you made of your hood. Did you do the mods or did you farm it out? You made mention to inner fender well modifications, how extensive were they? Do you have pics?
02-14-2008, 06:32 PM
#56
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
As for the lower end:
GM CNC bowtie block (splayed 4-bolt caps across all journals {not just the center three}, siamesed cylinders, o-ringed block, blind head bolt holes, 3/4 filled with block filler)
Bore: 4.125"
Crank: Callies forged 4340, 3.875" stroke
Rods: Lunati ProMod 5.7"
Pistons: JE 26cc "dish" custom
Cam: Cam Motion custom blower spec solid roller
Timing Chain: Jesel Beltdrive
Pan: Custom fabbed aluminum by Stef's
I will get back with you on the drive ratio/impeller speed. I did all the calculations last year and I will have to dig them up when I get home. I believe it set for 24psi at 6500 with a max impeller speed of 64,000 rpm.
I agree about the air filter. I have been using an F2 on a almost stock 502BBC and I had the same thing happen with rear blower seal. I have since gone to a conical inlet with mesh screen. I suppose this engine will be no different.
GM CNC bowtie block (splayed 4-bolt caps across all journals {not just the center three}, siamesed cylinders, o-ringed block, blind head bolt holes, 3/4 filled with block filler)
Bore: 4.125"
Crank: Callies forged 4340, 3.875" stroke
Rods: Lunati ProMod 5.7"
Pistons: JE 26cc "dish" custom
Cam: Cam Motion custom blower spec solid roller
Timing Chain: Jesel Beltdrive
Pan: Custom fabbed aluminum by Stef's
I will get back with you on the drive ratio/impeller speed. I did all the calculations last year and I will have to dig them up when I get home. I believe it set for 24psi at 6500 with a max impeller speed of 64,000 rpm.
I agree about the air filter. I have been using an F2 on a almost stock 502BBC and I had the same thing happen with rear blower seal. I have since gone to a conical inlet with mesh screen. I suppose this engine will be no different.
what bolts are in those rods? ARP 2000?
02-14-2008, 06:39 PM
#57
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
383BackinBlack,
What kind of ignition do you plan on running? With boost levels over 20psi and with excessively small plug gaps (i.e. .28-.32"), I had alot of problems in the past with spark blow-out. I have used MSD 6AL and 7 with very little success. I now use the MSD 10-Plus which is geared specifically for boosted/nitrous injected motors and is as close to a race magneto as you can get. This thing is really hot.
What kind of ignition do you plan on running? With boost levels over 20psi and with excessively small plug gaps (i.e. .28-.32"), I had alot of problems in the past with spark blow-out. I have used MSD 6AL and 7 with very little success. I now use the MSD 10-Plus which is geared specifically for boosted/nitrous injected motors and is as close to a race magneto as you can get. This thing is really hot.
02-14-2008, 06:47 PM
#58
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Thanks for the complement. As I have yet to put this thing in a car, what clearance problems will I have? I saw the post you made of your hood. Did you do the mods or did you farm it out? You made mention to inner fender well modifications, how extensive were they? Do you have pics?
the hood is really close to the top of the blower, and to the cog depending what size. If you WERE to run an air filter, or want any room for an inlet of some kind you'll need to do some significant alteration to the proportioning valve on the brake booster. i mounted mine flat against the booster, and had flexible lines made to hook everything back up......i also used the "stand on the strut tower and bend the booster bracket up an inch" mod to get more room haha.
on the inner fender......its not REAL tough.......just have to "dimple" it a little to make some clearance for the blower housing.
i have pics someplace.....i'll try and dig them up......but if you get bored, you can try and search on here im sure i posted them at some point
02-15-2008, 08:29 AM
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Thanks for the info. I have been trying to get a hold of Guido because I am interested in buying his old blue Camaro. I have attached a pic of the DS inner fender well modifications he has made. I believe, at first glance, the blower will hit the tube brace he added. What are your thoughts?
As far as the hood goes, I think I will probably wind up cutting a small section out of the hood (Harwood 3" fiberglass cowl) to clear it. It's not all that practical for street use, but it is a race car after all--besides it will look cool.
How do you intend on running the aftercooler piping? Will it be similar to what I saw in one of your previous posts?
As far as the hood goes, I think I will probably wind up cutting a small section out of the hood (Harwood 3" fiberglass cowl) to clear it. It's not all that practical for street use, but it is a race car after all--besides it will look cool.
How do you intend on running the aftercooler piping? Will it be similar to what I saw in one of your previous posts?
02-15-2008, 01:31 PM
#60
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Thread Starter
Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Thanks for the info. I have been trying to get a hold of Guido because I am interested in buying his old blue Camaro. I have attached a pic of the DS inner fender well modifications he has made. I believe, at first glance, the blower will hit the tube brace he added. What are your thoughts?
As far as the hood goes, I think I will probably wind up cutting a small section out of the hood (Harwood 3" fiberglass cowl) to clear it. It's not all that practical for street use, but it is a race car after all--besides it will look cool.
How do you intend on running the aftercooler piping? Will it be similar to what I saw in one of your previous posts?
As far as the hood goes, I think I will probably wind up cutting a small section out of the hood (Harwood 3" fiberglass cowl) to clear it. It's not all that practical for street use, but it is a race car after all--besides it will look cool.
How do you intend on running the aftercooler piping? Will it be similar to what I saw in one of your previous posts?
the tubing is going to be exactly how it was before, not changing anything other than the motor parts lol.........this whole deal was basically, rebuild the same motor.....with much better parts, before it goes boom.
02-17-2008, 01:20 PM
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Car: 91 rs
Engine: Blow through 383, 10 psi, xr288hr
Transmission: Manual th350 ATI 3000
Axle/Gears: 3.50 9"
Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
backinblack, have you thought about using E85? I had thought about it a year ago but AED said they hadnt built a carb that safe for blow through yet. Theres a few guys at theturboforum that doing this, and from what I'm reading it greatly reduces your intake temps. You dont need an intercooler or meth injection. At 30psi though, you might.
All the guys seem to be using CSU carbs or the quickfuel stuff, which I dont like. Im going to give CSU and AED a call tomorrow, and see what they say.
All the guys seem to be using CSU carbs or the quickfuel stuff, which I dont like. Im going to give CSU and AED a call tomorrow, and see what they say.
02-17-2008, 07:20 PM
#63
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Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
backinblack, have you thought about using E85? I had thought about it a year ago but AED said they hadnt built a carb that safe for blow through yet. Theres a few guys at theturboforum that doing this, and from what I'm reading it greatly reduces your intake temps. You dont need an intercooler or meth injection. At 30psi though, you might.
All the guys seem to be using CSU carbs or the quickfuel stuff, which I dont like. Im going to give CSU and AED a call tomorrow, and see what they say.
All the guys seem to be using CSU carbs or the quickfuel stuff, which I dont like. Im going to give CSU and AED a call tomorrow, and see what they say.
that being said, if your going to use e85, why on earth wouldnt you just run straight methanol? its pointless.......if you're going to use an expensive alternative fuel, use one that going to benefit you.
you can run straight methanol with ALOT of boost and ALOT of compression with all the timing you want, and radiator from a geo metro.
why don't I use methanol??? because you can't buy it at mobil, and this car is driven on the street
02-17-2008, 07:28 PM
#64
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Car: 91 rs
Engine: Blow through 383, 10 psi, xr288hr
Transmission: Manual th350 ATI 3000
Axle/Gears: 3.50 9"
Re: f1-R 383 done on the stand....
Well lol, your right about it being a farce as far as a reasonable alternative to fossil fuels. I dont think its expensive though. With the lessened mileage it comes out to about the price of 91 octane gas.
I can also get it right down the road. Its a lot easier for me to get than methanol, and its much cheaper. Its also easier (corrosion) on your fuel system.
Its high octane, and its a cool burning fuel. It makes a lot of sense to use it for forced induction.
But I do respect your refusal based on a good principle.
I can also get it right down the road. Its a lot easier for me to get than methanol, and its much cheaper. Its also easier (corrosion) on your fuel system.
Its high octane, and its a cool burning fuel. It makes a lot of sense to use it for forced induction.
But I do respect your refusal based on a good principle.
02-18-2008, 05:42 PM
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