my3rdgen

I live in Northern IL. Anyone who has had an 8 point installed in ther car, where did you have it done. I do all my work myself, but this I want to have professionaly done (right the first time LOL!). I will drive the car up to 500 miles to have it done. I plan on eventually getting 500hp out of my 355 and want the body as stiff as possible. For now it will be for looks.

Any body got pics of all the roll bar mounting points on their car? I'd like to see how they are welded in or bolted in. I would like pics of both types of installs.

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I had mine done at Macomb, IL (Home of Western Illinois U). It was done by Jim at Precesion Tool and Welding. I had a S&W race cars 8 point kit I stripped the car and I helped Jim as much as I could when he Mig'd the bars in. I then reinstalled the interior myself.

Bad thing about bolting them in they need to have a 6x6 plate on both sides. While welding you just need a 6x6 plate on the top side.

Here my pics.

http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/433125/2

I had to modify the kit so that the main hoop sits back a little further. (I'm 6'5).

ontogenesis

main hoop welds ontop of the beginning of the rear subframe just infront of the back seats, rear bars weld above gas tank toward the back of the hump, again above subframe rails, side front bars weld at the back end of the front subframe, atleast thats how i did it

vegaken

When looking to have my cage installed in my Camaro I had many options. I talked to the guys at S&W, and some of the local guys in NJ that were building cars for NMCA classes and E-town Quick 8. I was even helping at night at one of the best shops in the state. But in the end I wound up at Ed Quay. He is located in Pottstown PA. This guy has been there since the beginning of Pro-Stock as he built Grumpy's Vega. His design is a little different but it is tested and proven. Ed himself is still helping tune chassis for Pro Mod style cars and some Pro-Stock car. He built the car that Phil Plestsis won Heavy Street in Orlando going high 7's in 2001. I got great service and all my questions answered and everything was done when they said it would be done. The Camaro is the one car they specialize. They have tons of parts for it but mostly Super Stock style. They will work with you on what you want. They do sell kits for the cages but after seeing the work I would let them do it as it is first quality work. The welds are incredible and perfect. Give them a call or check out there website at edquay.com
If you want I might have some pictures of my cage if you want I can send them to you or I might try to post them later for you. If you call tell them Ken Sensi let you know about them. Hope this helps.
Ken

TheNutzZ28

IF you want to, you can see my car, its has a 8 point in it, i did all the work myself. I'm just over the border in Kenosha,Wi.

my3rdgen

That would be great. I am buying my kit before the end of the year because they are on sale till Jan 1, and I can basicaly get free shipping. Some time after the new year would be great.

Thanx to all for the input. All ideas and comments are welcome.

TheNutzZ28

Well let me know when you want to see it and I will give ya directions to get up here. I can't drive the car to meet up with ya, don't have insurance on it and I pulled my rims off.

jocww

summit and jegs sell a kit for our cars

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I am going to cage my car this winter 8 or 10 point i don't know yet. I am going to do it myself. My car flexes so damn bad. I hope to be mid-bottom 7's in the spring, on motor and maybe 6's if i spray it so I know I am gonna need a cage. Who makes the best cages for our cars?
Thanks

my3rdgen

To obtain the times you quoted I am assuming you are going to tub it?

Check these guys out, <www.swracecars.com> they have 8 points on sale till Jan 1st. $109.** + $60.00 S&H. Not bad, its like getting your shipping for free.

my3rdgen

You going to be around on the Thanxgiving Holidays? I have from Thurs. to Sun off of work (miracle). I have to rebuild my 700R4 on one of those days, but I am not sure wich day dad and I are going to do it. I got to call him and see what day he is available.

383backinblack

i have a competition engineering 8 point cage, i installed it myself.....but i work with steel and tubing and im a good welder.

if you wanna have it done its going to be expensive, cause its quite a bit of work....do yourself a favor and strip the interior yourself, thats a good chunk of the process.

if you dont have acces to tubing notchers, spare tubing, a good band saw, and a good welder.......not something to try at home

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Thats in the 1/8 mile not the 1/4. I hope to run mid 11's in the quarter and maybe high 10s on a 100 shot.

my3rdgen

I am going to go with a pre notched kit from <www.swracecars.com>. I can weld, its just that my job doesn't require me to do a lot of it. I am an industrial "Mectritian" in a factory, we cover all mecanical and electrical bases, I do not have much practice welding thick (1/8 inch and up) metal to thin sheet metal (car body), my job doesn't call for much work like that, I am afraid I might burn through. I must practice first.

Got any tips?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

does this cage clear the arm rests? Also does anyone make prebent ones that go around the arm rest. I mustangs have this I didn't know about us.

my3rdgen

I get it I should have known.

I am shooting for 12's without NO2 and 11's with it. But we'll see, I bet I need the gofastgas to get into the 12's. That's OK though, it'll still be fun!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I just looked at their website and they do make bars to clear the arm rests.

383backinblack

there isnt a cage kit on the market that will fit right in, notched or not.....its going to require alot of measuring and test fitting.

the kit should come ith 6"x6" steel plates that weld to the floor pan.....these are required in order to meet rule requirements...if the kit doesnt have them....buy a different kit.

clean all paint, goo etc off the surface before you try and weld it...it'll just make it cleaner and alot easier to do....turn the voltage and feed down on the welder (mig) and concentrate the arc on the heavier steel, and weave and flow it into the sheetmetal.....this will give you the best bead quality with the least change of burning through the sheet metal....it takes practice

you'll need to get good at welding on your back and upside down too to finish all the welds.

when installing the cage....tack weld all the parts on 3 sides....dont do any finish or heavy welding until everything is tacked....or it could draw and tweak the chassis

my3rdgen

Side bars for the stock int. are $39.95 extra.

TheNutzZ28

Nope, Deer season, going way up north in Wisconsin, weekends are good for me, looks like Satruday Dec, 6 should work.

I got my 8-point cage from Jegs and I made it to clear the armrest. As stated by other replies you need to strip the entire inside of the car. Good time to repaint and fix holes if ya have them.

383backinblack

the competition engineering kit has pre-bent door bars that will clear the arm rests

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

does anyone have one of these in their car?

my3rdgen

To be leagal for most competition does the 6"X6" plate have to be welded all the way around? Or can I stich it? I am concerned about warping the floor pans.

PhilM

all the way around. do it in small sections at a time and you won't warp anything.

i have the comp kit, LilJay. backinblack has it too, see his pic above. with the right angle mine cleared the armrests, I will hunt a pic...

PhilM

here...

383backinblack

the floorpan isnt a smooth piece of sheetmetal so you dont need to be concerned about warping it....

it needs to be fully welded on at least 3 sides

vegaken

Guys that plate that goes to the floor needs to be fully welded all the way around. Just remember that bar is there for your safety not just looks. That is what is going to protect you if anything should ever happen. Don't skimp on this project. It will serve a few causes for you; it will help you in an accident(hope it never happens) it will make the car work better at the track, and it will increase the resale value of the car if you should ever sell it.
Also if you think the car will ever go into the 9's you should just put a full cage in it now since it will be apart already. This way you can run the smaller diameter tube for a full cage versus the larger diameter tubing for the roll bar.
I don't want to rain on anybody's parade but that picture of the door bar scares me a little. It should connect at the floor down by your feet more not in the middle of the door. This would allow for more protection of the driver compartment in an accident and it would also strengthen the area around the door as this is a big area that tends to flex on these cars. If it is possible maybe see if you can afford a chromemoly cage. I know they are expensive and tough to install but they are well worth the money.
By the way does anybody else on this board use any of Ed Quays stuff. If not check it out and call him, he knows his stuff about these cars as he has worked on them forever.
Ken

my3rdgen

Do the 6X6 plates sit flat on the floor or do you have to shape them to fit the floor board before you weld them in?

PhilM

I did NHRA tech for years. by the way...you can shape them if need be, or box them in. With these cars you should be able to find able flat areas to weld to.

383backinblack

in the back and on the rocker sills your gonna have to shape the plates......theres just not enough room to fit it there without shaping it to fit the floor, its not that hard to do though.....

In IHRA it only needs to be welded on 3 sides., sorry

in any case....you don't want a moly cage unless you need one.....the entire thing has to be tig welded which is slow and a pain in the ***.....and chromoly steel is strong and light.....but far, far more brittle than mild steel and it can crack with extended flexing and vibration.

thats why moly suspension components aren't a good idea for the street either.

BackInBlack86

no.... i dont have a cage in my car yet... i dont even have SFCs yet. that's why i've got a post in this forum regarding "cage issues"

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Click on this link to another post I contributed to. The general title is misleading, but I have listed some things to look for/do when installing a cage in 3rd gens, hope it helps. Info is about middle of the page when I first started contributiing.
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...ight=roll+cage

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, that link also gives you guys an idea of something to do with the extra space. :-)

Easiest way I found with shaping stuff was to dent the floor pan out (I had to relocate the main hoop differently so my install was customized a little bit). Then use a big hammer and prop the plate up against something sturdy I used the cement edge on my garage floor and just beat the crap out of the plate till it starts shaping the way you want it. You'll have to run back and forth and test fit it... course you could just torch it and get it nice and hot and form it that way too.

383backinblack

i heated mine up and shaped them on the anvil

BackInBlack86

i guess if your car really needs a cage, subs are pretty pointless in my opinion. think of all that extra weight you're adding to the car, you've got boxes, subs, amps, caps, and all that heavy guage cable... if you really NEED a cage you're trying to go fast, and weight wont let you go fast.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Bigger motor baby You aint gotta thing if you aint got the bling:hail: Actually I could care less how fast my car is as long as it's consistent which judging from my past 2 years and my win ratio the beast exceeds my expectations, however, I am currently building a mill that will hopefully propel my anchor into 10's and still be streetable, good looking inside and out, functional, and consistent. Someday when I can justify spending 5 digits on a car to only use on the weekends for track only, is when I'll be concerned about weight for speed, but for now I'll take my cake and eat it too.

MrDude_1

thats bull.

you just need more power...... and nothings cooler then not only being faster then the other guy, but you can turn on the AC, crank some tunes and ENJOY the car at the same time.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Amen brother, I'll drink to that!! It was pretty embarassing looking like my car should run 10's but only running high 12-low 13 and then you have the stock maro's and birds going faster and having A/C, cruise, etc...almost makes me wnat to buy a newer model and throw a charger at it plus some other aftermarket goodies then showing all the "real race cars" how it's done!!

BackInBlack86

sure, i'll go along with being able to crank the ac, and the tunes, and enjoy the car, that's understandable. but wouldnt it be alot more fun to drive if you were able to get more than a few miles to a tank of gas? when you get into the power issue, more is better, right? so why waste it toting around a bunch of stereo equipment? more power will make you go faster, just the same as less weight will. i dont know about you guys, i wanna go as fast as possible, and still remain drivable.

MrDude_1

while they arnt totally mutually exclucive, you cant say more MPG because of less weight in one sentance and then swap over to max power in the next...

if you were truly concerned about the extra MPG on the street you were loosing from 100lbs of stereo equipment, i suggest you start driving a bit slower on the street.

BackInBlack86

the point i was trying to make is sure, you can make up for the added weight with more motor. i've got a friend with a 638ci big block in his truck. and yes, it is street driven. he doesn't drive it very far, because generally when you get into the power levels generally associated with an engine that big, it becomes unstreetable. i'd rather go 12.00 with a NA small block and be able to drive it 200 mi if i want to without fear of it breaking,running out of gas, etc. than i would to run 11.00 with a big block car that was totally unstreetable.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

How is an 11sec car unstreetable, our group has 6 11.0-11.20 cars and we cruise all the time when it's nice out, in fact 2 of those get driven to the track on the weekends. BBC and the right combination will yeild results that are unattainble with a sbc and still be "reasonable" 11.00 sec cars are fast, but in the whole scheme of things, it's almost becoming like 12's 10 years ago.

MrDude_1

if you have a big block car, you should easily be able to be in both the 11s and streetable..... bigger motor = easier to be fast and streetable... at the expence of efficency.... and that usualy means gas miliage....

get some crazy overdrive though, put FI with a hwy mode on it, and you could still cruise the country with a big block...


anyhoo my point was, with a car you do drive all the time for your enjoyment, dont take way from that enjoyment for somthing that will have minimal gain..

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

IMO a true 500hp 355 N/A is not streetable. To obtain those kind of numbers you are going to need some big heads, big solid roller, big stall 4000+stall and some deep gears, 4.10+. IMO that is not streetable, but thats just me. Yes its easier with a bigger engine. My 400 should have 450-500 with a good tune. My car is very very streetable, I love it and it runs 7.8's with some serious traction issues. It's a very streeable 11 second car. I have a 2800 9.5 conveter, 3.23 gears, OD, hydraulic roller and 220cc heads. I could drive the car anywhere given if I had enough money for gas
My friend has a 455, same cam, same gears, same stall, no OD with mildy ported stock heads and he runs 7'6's right now on ET streets compared to me running on radials. His car is streetable but not as because he has no OD. We trap the same MPH in the 1/8(90.4)and we think I will be faster than him after I get some suspension work done, and even more so if I put slicks on my car. He has a bigger engine but I have alot better heads, after he gets his Cauffman heads this spring I am gonna have to spray it to keep up with him.
Streetable is a very realitve term and it depends on who you ask, there are several 9-10second cars that drive on the street here in town. Just depends on what you think streetable is.

383backinblack

streetable is all a state of mind to start with.....but let me put it this way.....

my 383 makes about 500hp at the flywheel (410 at the wheels)
it has a huge cam in it......630 lift, and 308 deg duration (.248@.050)....i just started it an hour ago, its 20 deg outside.....it started on the first kick and idled on its own with no babysitting....and it idles fine all the time at about 750rpm

driveability is good, excellent throttle response...obviously gas mileage isnt great but whatever...carbed with a race demon 750, its not a toyota prius.

it has enough vacuum at idle to run the power brakes no problem in traffic, and it rides ok.....runs a 12.3 @ 116.2

then on the otherside of the spectrum,

alot of you might already know who smitty is....he lives in my town, right up the street....and his 85 iroc runs 9.80's.....and is 3 times more streetable than my car...with a TPI 305 with a huge *** innovative ball bearing turbo.....this guy drives this thing to the track and runs 10's on pump gas.....puts in the race gas, cranks ths boost and hits 9's......then he drives it home with AC and power everything......it gets great mileage, and its quiet....you cant even hear the damn thing unless he jumps on it, save for the turbo whistle.

this is it:
http://www.tpi305.com

MrDude_1

strange.... im actually building a big solid roller, 400 SBC right now..... complete with 4.10s... and its my daily driver. the whole whopping 2.7 miles to work and back


how funny is that? you hit it right on the head.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

Another thing to point out, if one is going for maximum umph pending the power to weight ratio, I truly think that this 3rd gen platform would be one of the last chasis to pick, as much as I hate to say it, when I do make a track only vehicle my car of choice is definately a LX Rustang, small, very light and really dont look that bad IMO-chevy motor/trans however. I like these cars and they have one heck of a following, but for a race only platform, unless you gut and cut it's just a pretty boat anchor with not much hope of lightening up unless you break out the debit/credit card, torch, and willing to sacrifice about everything to help lighten these hogs up.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

wow, i'm buying stock in exxon now

383backinblack

if you care about gas mileage.....get a new hobby.....and buy a honda insight

BackInBlack86

guys, i think you're reading me a little wrong here. i never said that i was concerned with getting any kind of fuel economy, that's not the point of a performance car. i just think that to fully enjoy a car you should be able to drive it more than a 1/4 mi and back before you have to refill the tank.