89 Iroc Z

I am sure the design is good and it won't break but I don’t understand the point if it is only a few pounds lighter then stock? I could understand if spohns piece was a lot lighter or if the stock piece is prone to breaking but none of these are true. I don’t think many people are going to shell out $400 (or $500 for chrome moly version) if there really isn’t any benefit at all.

swerve-driver

Steve-
How are the a-arms evaluated for strength (Spohn v. stock, or other)?

Is this in terms of peak load (or similar) or first sign of failure or?

What type of test is performed and/or what type of test machine is it run on?

Or are strengths based on each types build materials/techniques and customer feedback.

I have some experience with materials and assembly testing for and am interested to know what type of actual testing is performed.

Nice looking work BTW.

Thanks,
S-D

ME Leigh

Damn and i wanted to get the new Tubular K-member of Sphon's. I don't think i am now, its probably gonna be $1000 dollars. For a thousand dollars i could make one myself and still buy aluminum heads.

I bummed now, i wanted that thing.

I guess i could always buy some other tubular k-member and just reinforce it myself.

Being an engineer myself, i might just build one myself, with lots of extra added goodies... for a custom coilover setup.

camaroracer1992

oh i thought you discontinued the alloy strut mounts. i was gonna say i go down to having 1 picture on the website instead of 2!!!! Steve gimme like 2 or 3 months and ill be buying a arms and coil overs!!!! i need all the weight off for racing!!!

once again kick *** products!!!


Joe Ansuini

vsixtoy

If you read my two quotes again, you discover that they do coincide with eachother. I stated that Steve called me and we talked about what I would expect in a good control arm- basiscally what would I buy because he knew from my outspokeness around here (TGO) that I am not happy with any others that were currently offered for our cars. I told him my concerns, he told me what he had designed and asked if it was something I would buy- basically if I thought his idea was too flimsy, or too strong, hat kind of options he had intended, etc. He designed them, and then merely asked myself and a few others if we apporved of his design and would we buy them- if not, then he was looking for any imput for what he could do to get us to feel comfortable to buy them- I told him what was presented to me was great and it slightly erred on the stronger side that the lighter side whicjh is plenty a safe way to go for something being used for potential street use for 15+years straight in the worst case enviroment (Bad weather areas like people in Canada, etc, not just guys like me in sunny California).

If you were in the business to mass produce such an item, it is always in your best interest to err on the worst case senerio so that this product is safest for everyone that potentially is going to buy it. Thats just good smart business.

For you guys that feel it is not worth the money for such a product over the stock arms, you are not pushing your car hard enough to realise the flex you are recieving from the stock from A-arms- mine is in fact noticalbe especially with the added bracing I have up front. These will help greatly in cornering stabilty. Tubualr A-arms are twice as strong against torsional flex and maintaining steering geomerty in corners than the stock units.

If this sounds like I have my nose up Steves ***- so be it- He makes a very good product and I commend that- I have in fact had an A-arm break on me a few years back on another car- So yes I am critical on who make what and how.

pasky

I don't think anyone denies his workmanship. If you have seen any of the welds that come off his products, you will see how great they are. To be honest, im just gonna wait for competition to kick the bar up. I don't really even need these but I do want the tubular crossmember, I want the weight saving benefits and the clearance it provides. Most of us own thirdgens because we don't have a lot of money to put into our cars, thats why there is a fabrication board. To be honest, I wish I had a buddy with a pair so I can take it to a machine shop and just duplicate it. Im a cheap ***, but not so cheap as to risk my life. Being cheap doesn't necessisarly mean you half ***. And a product being expensive doesn't automatically make it quality (which is not the case here).

Justins86bird

This is where we'll have to agree to disagree. Wait, I wont agree to that! j/k
I'd take an IRS anyday over a live axle on the street. Getting a 3rd gen to a competative level with the new C6 Z51 or ZO6 will not be an easy or cheap chore, let alone being able to kick it's butt. Heck, the current C5 ZO6s handle pretty well. Perhaps I misunderstood your orginal post. I took it as comparing the whole package (handling, braking, engine, etc..)

cdh67

On the street a solid axle wont compete with a IRS. But on a track a solid axle will be competitive. Nice thing about a solid axle is the tires are always 90degrees to the pavement.

vsixtoy

The way this car is handling, I would not swap an IRS into if you paid me to. I get zero bump dribble in this car, unlike my truck with leafsprings. I get no brake hop either under the most extreme repetitive braking- even through decreasing radius corners and coming down hard while already set into a turn sweep. Anywhere I drive this car hard, the rearend stays planted over the harder bumps (road patches, potholes, manhole covers. Only time I have a problem is skipping over a gutter dip. I run hign rebound and the tire will glance over and loose contact because it momentarilly will not retact that fast. But even an IRS car will do that with this high of rebound.

I do out corner and out brake a stock Vette. I am limited on power into my V6 due to local smog laws here in So. Cal, but if that wasn't a problem, I could squeeze enough power into this little V6 do hang with a ZO6 straight line and I still would have less than 30,000k into this car. Last I chacked, A Z06 is going for about 60K. My '68 Vette will eat a Z06 for lunch (and most bikes for that matter.) Back in 1989 at LACR, I ran a 10.89 at 134mph in this car on street tires

swerve-driver

? ? ?

OneBadZ4U

Oh Please Santi Clause, Please leave those LCA's under my tree!!

Warning, Warning, This is not an Attack!!!

Visxtoy, I don't think I quite buy your story about only having a v6. I thought I saw a picture you posted on here somewhere that showed the front of your engine. If memory serves me right, which it may not, that didn't appear to be a V6. And why post in your stats that your engine is "Top Secret." Lucy u got some splainin' ta do!

david auster

iTrader: (10)

It has to be a V6 no doubt about it. He has the support bar running right in front of the motor which is impossible to do on a V8 so its defenitly a V6.

I'm curious will your new coil over kit work with those Billet upper strut mounts? I would think they would be doesn't hurt to ask.

sc1twntrbo

so are you saying i should buy all my suspention from LG?
im not trying to flame i do own some of your parts on my car and i do plan on buying more but i just disagree with some things said on this board

sc1twntrbo

oh and i know lg doesnt make much of anything for a 3rdgen anymore. i just never like the argument mine is better than yours because it cost more

vsixtoy

The "top secret" is just a funny little smerk because even I don't know what the heck I will end up with until its done. I have posted a few pics of it already. It will be a 3.5l 209ci 60*V6 with alot of custom parts- Its being built strictly as a daily driver for street fun- I don't want another monster car that is a pain in the *** to cruise to where ever I need to go. Store, pick the kid up from school, the beach- you know daily stuff.

Meatman

iTrader: (4)

Just want to stick my nose in to thank Steve for quality products. I just spent about $1600 with you guys and am extremely happy with everything. Very high quality stuff. Have nothing but praise for you guys. Keep up the good work.

Cory Busey

pasky

Damn Dean, I love your custom intake man. Nice headers too. Why not go with the turbo setup doward is doing? Im sure that would give you some seat in the pants kick with the streetability you want....sorry for being off topic.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

looks pretty good, nothing short of what was expected. decent price too, comparable with others. i hope your k-member if/when you come out with one is the same in respects for price and otherwise which will make for a good option.

was it worth the wait... for me personally no as my pa setup has served my purposes for quite some time now but for those like above i can see where it might have been to ease their minds. i'm not really sure where the price is such a concern with some of you as it isn't bad at all. reguardless keep up the good work bringing out new items to help push our 3rdgen options.




what about coilover a arms now?

25THRSS

I am very interested in seeing pics of the Spohn coilover setup. When will we be able to see the actual product?

OneBadZ4U

And I stand corrected. Where's the smiley with a foot in the mouth??

25THRSS

Did you notice he is coming out with a rear coilover kit as well? I wonder if it will be anything like the autofab setup I have on my 4th gen.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

hopefully it will be better then the rear setups offered as of yet..

Kat

iTrader: (4)

What rear ones? Like the autofab setup?

Kat

Spdfrk1990

I havnt seen any real coil over setups at all.

SteveSpohn

I expect the k-member to be in the same price range as the others on the market. The a-arms were a bit more because I had everything CNC'ed, and that costs $$$$$. I also used the best parts I could, I didn't skimp on quality at all.

I'll have details and pics of the front and rear coil over set ups up on the site by the first of the year. We have everything, we're just doing some more testing and making some minor fitment changes before we release them. Everything for the front coil over kit is custom CNC'ed to our specifications from 6061 T-6 tempered aluminum, along with our 3 plate mounting system that really came out nice. I expect pricing on this to be about the same, or only slightly higher then the others.

The rear coil over kit has a reinforcing plate that mounts in to the entire area of the rear upper spring pockets. It will require minor welding to install (the plate), but it eliminates the strength concerns of mounting the coil over there. These rear kits will be offered with a variety of coil over shocks.

Thanks,
Steve

SteveSpohn

We have them:

http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1181

SteveSpohn

Here's some teaser pics...

Front Kit:

http://www.spohn.net/productimages/735_big.jpg


Rear Kit:

http://www.spohn.net/productimages/736_big.jpg

SteveSpohn

For those with a keen eye, on the rear kit the lower shock mounts and the springs aren't shown, we'll update the pic soon. We'll also show installed pics of both kits when they go up on the site.

Also, that rear kit pic shows the QA1 Proma-Star 12 way adjustable shocks. In late January, these will also be available in a double adjustable offering, with 24 adjustments on rebound, and 24 adjustments on compression.

Some of the other shocks we know will work with this kit are the AFCO and Strange single and double adjustable, as well as several Koni and Bilstein single and double adjustables. Some of these can get quite pricey, the Koni DA coil overs are big money, but will be an option for those who want/need them.

Steve

nolanr0413

hey steve what are the benefits of using a coilover system on the front . The car isnt a daily driver and it isnt a racer either. DO i really need them or will some good struts do the trick . The reason i ask is b/c i need new struts next year and its gonna cost me about 400 for the struts . What will the benefits be with coilovers. I know i can adjust the height , but thats not a big deal . thanks, jeff.

Kaas

Is this your daily driver vsixtoy?

Kaas

or what i meant to say is, a car you drive on the streets often* lol

vsixtoy

The car is my wife's daily driver. I drive that car about once every two or three weeks. I just don't have time to drive it that much- she loves it. She takes my daughter to school in it every day, and shopping.

Now that Steve has developed a reliable 4 wheel coilover setup for these cars, I will be installing it on this car like I had intentions on doing a coilover setup from the beginning. This is such a fun little car to buss around town in.

I have been in touch with Steve on these coilover front kits and he is tryoing to work out the final bugs on the spring rates and coil lengths. I am looking to go about a 325 or 350 rate 2 5/8"ID coilover spring on this car and maintain its current lowered stance (24 3/4" at fender lip) This car does ride very stiff (800lb springs currently- coilovers are about 42% of the conventional rate)and I am trying to lighten the unsprung weight quite a bit to get it to still handle as well but ride a little smoother. right now at slow speeds, all you feel is the tire bounce as it goes down the road at about 20mph- the suspension hardly moves. I want to slightly lower the rates and lighten the unsprung weight to increase the ride ratio.

Spdfrk1990

Wait so your wife doesnt complain about a harsh ride and your also building a high HP engine for her?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

what od are those springs? the look awful small. my old 2.5's rode terrible compared to a 3" of the same rate and height.

either way it's always nice to have options..

vsixtoy

Its stiff, but not harsh. Yes, I have said this many times in the past already (for those weho are going to say I am repeating myself) Its the wife's car that I built because I do have to drive it occationally. Its the only "car" we have that will seat all three of us. The girls don't like going out for dinner in the truck or the ElCamino. I can't stand driving or even owing a stock car so I built the crap out of it. She's on [page 3 of the link below

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/518752/1

I did a little test this weekend on my 3pt STB and it is flexing fore and aft. The strut towers are compessing towards the firewall on hard bumps. I am going to grab the welder from the shop over the holidays and bring it home to box the STB mount pads.

Spdfrk1990

Just get yah a 4 door family car i would hate to sit in the back of a f-body also.

vsixtoy

They are a 2.625 ID wihich is about a 3" OD. Steve also had a custom adjuster sleeve CNC made for these- all others on the market pre-made are paper thin (Most use the AFCO sleeves which start out at .065 thickness BEFORE the threads are machined in- scary). The smaller springs commonly used for coilovers are 1 7/8"ID which is about 2.25"OD.

It is in fact true that the larger diameter coils do ride better than the smaller dia.

SPdfrk- A 4 door? Not till I'm about 70 and have to ride in the back seat. We mostly ride with the In-laws or other familyand friends in their imperialist wagons when we generally go places. I am fortunate I don't need to own one, I have many to borrow if ever needed. In the rare cases that I have to drive my own cars over about 1 1/2 hour trips, I generally fly there and/or just rent a Crown Victoria or a Suburban

Justins86bird

Is there any welding required on the front kit like the rear or is it a bolt-on only kit?
Thanks

Kat

iTrader: (4)

Bolts right in. As soon as it comes out, its going onto my IROC. The only reason why the rear is a weld in, is because of the mounting point for the factory shock is just that, for the shock. It was not designed to support the weight of the car at all. So Steve made up a plate to weld to the sub fram to take the load of the car. (about 1400 pounds in the rear).

Kat

Spdfrk1990

Maybe ill wait on my cage then and if this comes in chrome molly ill have them weld it on also.

nolanr0413

hey steve what are the benefits of using a coilover system on the front . The car isnt a daily driver and it isnt a racer either. DO i really need them or will some good struts do the trick . The reason i ask is b/c i need new struts next year and its gonna cost me about 400 for the struts . What will the benefits be with coilovers. I know i can adjust the height , but thats not a big deal . thanks, jeff.

vsixtoy

Nolan, Here's a portion of a post I made on another thread- there is some questions and answers there-

"[1)The coil angle mimics the angle of the strut constantly due to it circumferencing one another. This allows for a 100% bind free operation of the coil movement throughout the travel range. There is no change of arch and rate of the top and bottom mount surfaces during travel. Conventional springs bind as suspension angles change- thus changing corner weights due to bind and resricting some freedom of movement

2)It is indeed less unsprung weight. This allows the susension to travel up and back down faster and smoother withut unsettling the chassis as much as the heavier stock setup.

3) ride height can be set at desired geometry level for best suspension angles, no more guessing game trimming coils to desired ride height and resulting in uneven side to side spring rates. coils retain proper frequencies due to retaining engineered design of coil length.

4) corner weights can be set percisely for optimal transition handling ( this is a big advantage)

5) with the rodend/coilover setup, more agressive camber and caster specs can be dialed into the alignment via rodend adjustments prior to setting the strutmounts. ]"

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=270588

MrDude_1

honestly?

if its not a racer, you'll never notice any of the advantages dean listed above... its always cool to have the new great thing and neat trick parts like 4 corner coil overs...

but people have been having fun with their cars for years with just some good struts and springs. a few months ago, even dean was reccomending that.... and you know how he gushes over how great his car handles... if you can do that good with coil springs and have fun with the car.... dont worry about the new stuff...

of course that comes off the wrong way in this thread and is sure to **** some people off, but its my honest opinion..

vsixtoy

A few months ago nobody had a coilover setup to my liking- Right now we are trying to figure out if this new setup is going to work on my car as low as it is with my struthousing length. If it does turn out to work, this will be the first company that makes proper support to the fender.

Here's more info I have posted on other threads;

"[The only real thing that will improve the ride quality of the car is to either lighten the unsprung weight, or increase the sprung weight. It costs big bucks to lighten the unsprung. Companies like Cadillac rely on a heavier weight chassis to provide the good ride they get. This is done mostly by adding the lush creature comforts into the cars that make them more grand than you average GM family sedan. They are most often the same chassis and suspension for the most part, only the overall sprung weight is increased due to the power everything and lushness inside the passenger areas.

Coilovers due decrease the unsprung weight and give a better ride and performance. Airbags are setup in a manor that give the same priciple as coilovers, but handling carateristics from airbags is less disireable for all out handling- otherwise, you would see racecars with them. Airbags are strictly for load control and people use them for adjusting ride height for looks.

A car with a 5:1 srpung to unsprung ratio with ride and handle much better than a car that is 2:1. Thats 2Lbs sprung weight for every one pound unsprung weight. So for every 5 lbs you drop off the chassis, you should try to at least drop about 1 lb off the moving suspension componants to mantain or better the ride quality and handling characteristics.]"

vsixtoy

More on Dudes quote about my car handling- I have always stated that it pull 1.07g's on a lefthander, it pulled only 1.02 on a righthander.

Here's more info explaining this and explaining the benefits to coilovers-

"[A car with conventional springs can not be adjusted when the springs are installed into the car. Therefore, On any given car you can and usually always do have the corner weights higher on one side than the other- thus making the car able to turn better in one direction that the other. By being able to set your corner weights, you can now control the amount of weight percentage that transfer diagonally when braking and entering a left corner or a right corner. You can set them equal (which is favorable for street driving) or you can set them favorable to lefthand corners in an example such as a road course that has 12 lefthanders and 7 righthanders whith a majority of the lap time focused on the straights and lefthanders. The car may run slightly slower in the righthanders than the competition, however it can make up and dominate the time spent in the greater # of lefthanders thus yeilding faster times.


As a side note, This can be accomplished with comventional springs with the use of shims, but it is a real pain in the but to get everything correct and at the proper ride height without having varing spring rates.]"

MrDude_1

so would it still be fair to say, that if someone here wanted their car to handle almost as good as yours does now (we know they cant reach there exactly because you have everything tweeked better, have a V6 instead of V8, custom bracing, ect..) they could achieve this with a conventional spring setup?


or should they jump straight to coil overs?

strokeronthesause

ON YOUR PAGE IT SAYS U CANT USE ANYTHING LESS THAN A 200LBS SPRING FOR DRAG RACING. MY CAR AFTER THE STRANGE BRAKES AND OTHER THINGS WILL PROBABLY BE ABOUT 3000LBS WITH ME IN IT. SO WHAT IM ASKING IS I NEED A SPRING THAT WEIGHT TRANSFERS AND 200LBS SOUNDS A LITTLE STIFF LET ME KNOW WHAT U THINK.

25THRSS

Is everyone forgetting Ground Control's adjustable kit?

vsixtoy

GC weight jackers offer #3 & #4 on my list above but not #1,#2, and #5.

Dude, I want this Camaro to handle even better than it does. If there is a better product out there for me, I will buy it. I want coilovers if possible on this thing. Until you ride in a built V6 car, You will not have an idea why this car handles so much better than a V8 car- the compromise I have is it is so much slower than what a V8 has potential of having. This I don't care about, it will be plenty fast for street use. Handling is safety. The better a car can manuvere and brake, the more capable it is to avoid an accident especially on a wet slick road- my wife and child drive in this car, I like them to be as safe as possible with controlling the vehicle. My wife is a decent driver, this car makes her a very good driver, the suspension gives her confidence that is well deserved.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

very true about handling, but a car is only as good as it's driver. reguardless v8's can't compare to the v6 versions as the v6 definately rides much nicer... are they the same experience? no. but if you care about handling you'll enjoy building a v6 without a doubt.