GASGZLR

I just wanted to tell you guys that you deserve alot of credit for your dedication to your TBI system. All the guys I know with TBI are hard core mechanics that tune their own cars and know what they are talking about. You could just carb it and put in a 350 but most TBI people want to put the time and money into modding their 305 and tuning their TBI and I can respect a modded L03. I used to own an 89 LO3 auto and it was a great car with tons of low end for a 305, not to mention it went to 198,000 miles before I rebuilt the motor and it was still running when I pulled it out. It was fun to mod and tweek on and it used to really **** me off when people would say oh, it's ONLY a 305 with TBI. You guys don't "ONLY" have a 305, or "ONLY" have TBI, you guys have great running cars that are respectable street machines and the most fun to mod of any other carbed or TPI car in my opinion.

--Ross

JPrevost

That was random. And non-tech but your words are kind and so... my mouse refuses to lock this thread .
The reason I kept TBI isn't like most, I know it isn't the best, I know it's a half-breed that won't win everything. It isn't new but it's fun. It's cheap and it's extensive. Options are endless with lots of backwards compatible parts from carb and TPI applications.
It almost takes work replicating somebody elses exact "combo" which makes ever TBI car more appreciated by it's owner/builder.

jdrew1

Well put. I was initially disgusted with TBI on my pickup, but over the past few months you guys have shown me to love it, as a far superior alternative to carburetion. The bolt-on-and-go approach for carbs has worked for decades, but TBI is the best compromise of simplicity and funtion. I love going out to the truck in -30, not having to mess with a choke, and hearing it fire and run perfectly smooth after 6 or 8 revs. I'll never go back to carbs if I have a choice. I have a Caddy 425 that's goin in my '53 Pontiac Sedan Delivery, and it just might have Chevy TBI. My $.02
Drew

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

I love the TBI for its simplicity and low cost to mod. And not only that, but it keeps my insurance low, because it's not a "performance motor." It may have not come from the factory w/ performance in mind, but I won't tell the insurance companies if yall won't.

Oh, and I've done the carb thing as well, and like he said, never again. I don't like having to pour shots of fuel down it to get it started when it's cold.

seanof30306

iTrader: (4)

hey gunny,

you keep your head down and don't get your *** shot off over there, i want a grudge race with you when you get home.

swerve-driver

I personally like the reaction I get from guys that have brought their hot stock 2000 4th gen Camaros to the track and find out their killing themselves to eek out a win against a TBI. You can just see all the fun drain away from their face when you tell them what they just raced.
I find it a reliable, fuel efficient, emmisions correct medium between TPI and carb.
It also forces the user to think. Not always fun, but almost always rewarding.
S-D

Ross- you comment about just carbing it is just impossible for me. Emmission laws in the area are a non-negotiable deal. But, thanks for the nice words.
Come on prominator.

va454ss

iTrader: (1)

Amen! At the track, when I have my hood up, people ask "What kind of carb is that?"

I have to laugh.

I also NEED the prominator.

Most at the 454SS site had given up on any real performance from the TBI system. I'm slowly changing the trend.

I always try to do more with less

sqzbox

Unreal, You can visit this site from the big A ! Iraq get's all the glory but we know Afganistan is still real! Our hearts go out to you, and keep the faith brother, we all believe in your mission! When you get home, Come visit, you will be welcomed!

614Streets

Yes its good to tinker with TBI. Brutally basic.

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

Not a problem. Just say when and where. I really wanted to make it to Silver Dollar, but as you can you see, that just wasn't possible given my current situation.


Yeah, we notice that around here. Iraq gets all the glory, but there's only about 12,000 of us here, as opposed to 120,000 in Iraq. As for accessing this site, it was damn near impossible until they upgraded the internet system around here a couple of weeks ago. Also, since I rotate forward periodically, I really milk this internet thing when I'm at HQ. If you're anywhere near South Bend, I'll be up there in October. GO IRISH!

GASGZLR

Well, where I live there are no emmisions testing. I can really appreciate an EFI car now in the winter when my carb is icing over.

305RSlc

I just like kicking *** with "old" technology. R*ce with their space aged electronics and just all this new composite crap they make engines out of these days is sickening. TBI is fun, easy to learn on, cost effecient, and has plenty of possibilities for growing with. I love popping the hood (or used to when I had the stock air cleaner) and watching the puzzled look on peoples' faces when they see Fuel Injected and the big round thing sitting on top of the engine.... it's always priceless. I plan on putting it on top of a 430+ hp engine and MAKING it work past the infamous 4500rpm dead line people seem to run into. I also like making more out of less...or at least trying.

91 GTA Ramair2

TBI is My Fav, over carb's or TPI.
carb's are stubberen stall beast.
TPI is just plain a pain.

TBI Combine Turn key and go EFI with Cheap easy Bolt and go of carb's Into One Awsome set up.
You may have to Do More thinking,Custom Part building tho But you can get TBI to beat LB-9's, L-98's, LT-1's.
In a street race Postion My Beatup old Worne out 350TBi did beat few stock LS-1's on the 0-40MPh run's But after 45-50mph the LS-1 Would Walk all over me......Ithink Most of the performance of my 350TBI was just all gear's,Tranny but Oh well a win is a win right .........


1991 GTA Ramair2 350TBI 700R4,3.42 gear's 190,000miles on it.

15.69@90.2Mph.

Now with: Complete Tune up,Oil change,3.73gear's,and 3" singel exhaust with, K&N open elemet air filter,190,200Miles.

14.86@95.78Mph.

But Bad news Bad news
350TBI Died in Fall 2001 of spun#7 Rod bearing@190,500miles.......

I wish I coul of have gotten my TB spacer's,and Injector spacer's in it. I had them But didn't get to it in time.I was thinking, of puting the 670Cfm TB ofr it as well but didn't get to that either.

Might have hit the 14.60's but oh well.

It's getting 406TBI Witch is All Built Now to Finish getting Car Ready:hail: :hail:

I got all the Detail's Posted on it iin one of these Nice TBI heading's. Check it out..... if you Can........:hail: :hail:

Dewey316

i'm into it, 1) because it is what i have. i don't want to switch to TPI, because to tell you the truth, i really dislike TPI for any performance aplication. 2) i have to pass emisions, so that rules out the carbed route.

really, in alot of ways TBI is a better system than TPI. i am not compairing a wet flow system to MPFI, but to tuned port specificly, which really really IMHO SUCKS.

thanks for the kind words, i have seen alot of good steps taken by this group in the last couple of years. hopefully the next couple will be just as good. i suspect to see a few real good suprises, and build ups in the next 2 years. i have one coming up here, that will hopefully be a 300hp 305 TBI. everyone cross your fingers.

91 GTA Ramair2

You should be able to squeaz up to 320-340hp out of a the 305TBI's,And ya throw a nice 125shot on it .
so you could be right up to,435hp-465hp.
I Forgot where I seen that but i think it was power at the Flywheel bit still impressive for a 305TBI.:hail:

So I am sure you can get your 300Hp ya want........

Dewey316

i'm confident i can do it. i am not sure though if i am giving it enough cam. i will find out though

the key to mine, is it is all being done for $1000 (minus the 500 i dropped on headers) so actualy i am at about 1500 into it right now.

91 GTA Ramair2

300HP 305ci TBI V-8 For $1,500 sound's about right.
All tho with a few deal's Ibet you could get a nice 335hp.

Dewey316

if i put a bigger cam in it, i probably could, i am trying to keep it somewhat descent as a driver and such.

the cam i am putting in is only 210/218 .492 .492 112

91 GTA Ramair2

Well a 670 holley TB with spacer's would help much.

and the holey dial plan Intake would also help out a lot.

Dewey316

i using a weiand single plane (7525), with ported 416 casing heads, and a 670 TBI unit.

91 GTA Ramair2

ok But the Dual plan would be bettetr.....But single us fine too....

But i'd get the TBspacer and the injector raiser for you 670 and make it a 715CfmTB.....

Dewey316

not sure how much room i will have for a spacer. since i need to leave enough room for a nitrous plate

the injector spacer is a good idea, i may do some port work on the 670, and see if i can open her up.

91 GTA Ramair2

Well the Injector spacer For the GM TBI will Work on the 670 CFM Holley....it's a wise move Bump's youe CFM from 670 to 715Cfm ....

Witch would help your Buget build up Only like $25 parts guy but
it give's $125.00 worth of performance up grade........
You Don't hvae To Run it But it;s an awsome upgrade......

Gunny Highway

iTrader: (1)

What system are you going to use for your TBI NO2?

Dewey316

well nitrous is phase #2 (assuming the poor T5 holds)

i will likely get the NX TBI kit.

91 GTA Ramair2

EEEEEEEEK.

From what i hear the t-5 barly hold's up to an L-98.........

but Give it a shot t-5's are cheap or doing a T-56 swap wouldn't be bad.....

Dewey316

well, i have a WC t5 which helps. but i doubt the longevity of the T5 behind this combo, even before spraying it. so the nitrous may become phase #3. and a TKO or T56 will be phase #2

MrDude_1

i just like how you can tilt the truck any angle and the TBI keeps going.... carbs bog.. TBI is good for 4x4s.

91 GTA Ramair2

Go idea..... The Richmond 5spd's hold up good.

Nice 6spd out of jeg's would kick but.....

Whjat gear's you runinng 3.73's??

91 GTA Ramair2

Ya TBI dose rule in My book I had one TBI engine in the 9.60's in the 1/4 mile. should have the second TBI engine running low 12's high 11's........


Nice Power of a 406 coupled with a nice TBI setup.
yeilded 540Hp & 620Tq@Flywheel......

Can't wait till the car is ready for the engine I'm Building the altimate 700r4,but when it Dies i'm going to the jeg's 6spd............:hail:......... :hail:......... :hail:...................

Dewey316

right now i have 3.42's

luckily i can do my own gear swaps, so swithcing at a later date is easy enough.

91 GTA Ramair2

ya 3.73's or 4.11's would be very nice.......

Dewey316

if i go with a factory t56 with the .5 overdrive, i think 3.90's would be nice. if i go with a TKO or a aftermarket t56, that doesn't have the long overdrive, i will likely stay with 3.42's or maybe 3.73's

91 GTA Ramair2

yeah 3.73's and 3.90's would be awsome all around gear's I'm running 3.73's with both my 700r4's.

3.42's are to High for me..... the highest set of gear's i'd ever use in anything is 3.55's....

But I like to run 3.73's 3.90's 4.11's 4.44's 4.56's.....
3.55's are for dailydriver/weekend warrior with out OD's Like 4spd manual's and 3spd auto's...

3.73's and 3.90's are good daily driver/weekend warrior gear's.

4.11 & 4.44's 4.56's are good Street racing/drag car gear's......

Now in my truck's i use 4.88's 5.13's 5.45's 6.38's and 6.44's...
But those are truck's 1-Ton's and bigger.....

91 GTA Ramair2

thats how i set up my gear's anyway.........

Dewey316

well , my car also see's alot of road course time, so too steep of gears aren't an option for me. i tend to think that 3.73's are a bit extreme for most TBI guys, until they swap cams and heads to let the engine creat some more upper RPM power. 3.42's seem to be a good all around gear for the TBI cars.

91 GTA Ramair2

I guess.

My stock RS with the 305TBI stock no mod's,700r4,3.73's......

ran 15.60's with 230,000+miles on it, but I did put some 235/60R15's on it instead of the 215/65R15's there the same hight but the 235's are much wider....

I'm told my car should of ran 16.70's new and 17.20's worn out....... well if that's the case i proved them all wrong and i could still cruze 120MPH......but by 125-130 it was all wouned out...

but like you siad you road course so top end is more important then 0-60.....I'm a Dragracer/street racer/cornering guy.

so i gear my car's to accerate fast and take corner's at high speed's.

The AMX is the only car i've seen or rather have owned thatcan do all 3 thing's

accelerate have top end and corner.

9.63@143mph 1.352-60ft 1/4mile.

top speed;176mph@9,350rpm.

corner's i can barly take at 50mph with the GTA's i can take at 75-85mph with the AMX with the greatest of ease....

it corner's and steer's good till 135-145mph around 155-165 mph it get's A bit squerly.....cause the car start's floating cause of air pressure. the AMX has 4.44;1 gear's 4 spd manual and 28"tall tires......

Dewey316

thats right on with my car.

stock lo3, 3.42's, 5speed, 235/60/r15 BFG Radial T/A's, with only computer tuning, ran 15.5@90mph, with 180,000 Miles.

91 GTA Ramair2

cool stuff so when they call them Low 17 high 16 car's there just bsing then??

Not giving TBI any credit well Typical TPI guy statment....
I think the LO-3 has mega potenchal.........
305 with 400crank bored 30over=335 storker.
witch with like 10.2-10.6:1 compression and a 292*Dur525Lift cam,Holley dual plan intake,670cfm TB,TB spacers,Injector spacers,some 3.73's nice 295/50R15 drag radail's i think could pull low 13's.........

Dewey316

with traction, and a cam that large, with the extra cubes. you might even have a chance to dip into the 12's with great traction and a hard launch. i am not sure how much a 670 holley will support, i have my doubts on it supporting the HP for a 12sec car. but hey, if it max's out, thats a good reason to step up to a commander 4bbl unit

91 GTA Ramair2

hell yes.... a low 13 high 12 with and LO-3 would be so unexspected.........and fun.....
I think i might build one after i get my curent project's down....

jconrad

Can I still be in the club even if I replaced my 305 TBI with a 350 TBI? It's still got the same junk heads and intake design. Just bigger cc's on the heads.

jconrad

Oh yeah, bascially the same cam to, just a little more hp and torque.

91 GTA Ramair2

i swapped my 91's blowen L-98 or an LO-5 it pulled 14.80's the
L-98 was pulling 15.20's but it was dieing fast....

ben73

What a cool thread.
There's nothing wrong with TBI, I love it. We are talking about small block chevy's, get the air and fuel in and it will make power, who cares how you do it! There is no real reason why TBI should be inferior!
Why am I telling you guys this ;-)

JPrevost

Becareful, there are real apparent problems with TBI. Nothing that can't be overcome but there are there. Things like injector on-time at high rpm with low on-time at idle, WOT AFR tuning being heavily influenced by AE, 2 barrel throttle body directing air at part throttle, fuel pooling in manifold, freezing TB on humid days, crumby tech support because GM put some of the worst econo heads on TBI motors, etc. The list is long but again, nothing that is as expensive as replacing the whole TPI system with larger injectors, new intake, blah blah. I'm very happy with TBI and am having the hardest time finding a reason to go with port injection. I keep coming to the point of gas milage where the AE is a lot less. Other than that TBI does work if you are on a budget. Until the relatively recent release of the Stealthram I would say to you all, find a 350 with decent heads and go with the stealthram and a 730 ecm. It's worth the money when compared to dumping it into a 305 with swirl port heads and a peanut cam.
I'm more upset that there isn't a tunnel ram intake for vortec heads yet. That is the single reason why I haven't gone to port injection. Not that it's "better", but I wanted to play with some more port injection and compare differences.

91 GTA Ramair2

TBI is highly adaptable to any engine big block, small block,GM, Ford,mopar,and even AMC's

TBI is not the cheapest setup to build into a high performnace 9 second mechine but it work's awsome for me.

Now TPI on the other hand is Unstable very restrictive.
unless completely removed and updated,with new intake injector's ect.

I've had TPI car's an 87 Z-28 with a 335stroker car was ok quick but it would vary one week it would fly next weekend it couldn't pass it's self.

then i got this 87 GTA witch is for sure running slower then it should.

the L-98 should run 15.20's easy but is only running 16.11's but there's issues there.
But even the 91 GTA ran 15.20's some time hit the 14.90's but not offten. swapped in the LO-5 and whiz bang consistant 14.80's.

It could have been just a fluk deal i've had with TBI vs TPI.

But i'm sold on the TBI's setup.......

Kat

iTrader: (4)

What gets me is that they never made a GTA with TBI or unless I missed the story as to why your car has it..

Sounds like you guys are getting some decent times outta it. I litterally threw together a L98 together for about 650 bucks and ran a 14.5@ 100 mph.. With the wrong size injectors, half a$$ shifting it, (first time down the track for the combo didn't want to break anything and I did.), a really crappy 2.3 60' (car has pulled 1.9's with the old 305 and street tires) and nooo tuning what-so-ever.

Yeah I know excuse city..

Kat

JPrevost

And to think that my vortec heads, non-roller bump stick, slipping trans, knocking (too much timing), 87 octane, 6 less injectors, full street trim, and heavy weight is still nearly a second faster than you.... . lol, just playing. I've seen a 2001 Cali Mustang GT completely stock except for nitto's run a 13.8 at 100mph . My point being everybody's car is different, some are fast, some are slow, sometimes (usually) it's the smallest thing like a spark plug wire that'll make a fast car slower than a slow car. Go figure.

ponykiller1992

iTrader: (1)

I have pulled a 16.32 @ 82.34 in my bone stock 92 RS with 2.73 peg leg and a 3600 race weight (with driver), with a best 60ft of 2.1 on 245/50/16 kuhmos. Though I will eventually be swapping in a 350 with an LT1 intake, I have to give props to the TBI. Most people make fun of it, but I like it for just having fun with. I like it better than a carb, especially for the winter time. I think that the setup can be plenty of fun for burning **** and just plain having fun.