1gary

I figure those rpm's out on here:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/automotiveconverters.html

They are pretty close to real street.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Dude, just look at the unltamate tbi section here in the tech articals. Get an open air filiment, dremel tool the throttle body, and get a better flowing exhaust system, from the headers to the muffler. Bam, 200hp. 2 1/2" is all that is needed. You wont start experiancing "restriction" untill 230+hp. And even then they are "OK". The 4th gen 350s put out 275hp with 2 1/2 exhaust.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

This man knows what he's talking about

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I have heard really good things about the ultamate tbi and exhaust combo. The stock air cleaner and induction hose barely bring in enough air to feed an old 4 banger honda. The air cleaner swap is less then $30, and it's easy, and it looks cool, and you gain better engine efficiency and hp.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

The air cleaner was the first mod for me, and it made a HUGE difference, in a good way of course

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Yup. I know that is going to be my next performance mod. It'll go nicely with my new cat back exhaust. And new tires of course.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

It's definitely worth, and if you can, get a NON drop base, then you can get the stupid spacer ring out of there, which is the ultimate tbi mod

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Just go read the article. It's got directions, tips, info and more.

the solitaire

I'm sorry about that because you seem to be a knowledgable guy

I agree. 3" is nonsense in a near stock, or up to 300 HP street engine. Truth is however that the stock cast headers are so bad that I would really only use them as boat anchors. They are no restriction up to about 3000-3500 RPM, but I consider that the top range of a street engine, and I'm quite **** about details so if my cam of choice works up to 4500 RPM, I don't want my headers to restrict me, even if I never use the capacity. Then again, I personally am not on a tight budget.

Again I agree. With heads, cam and a computer upgrade as well as a good tune torque can range from 330-345 ft-lbs between 2000 and 4000 rpm without sacrificing driving comfort.

I fixed that for you. thirdgen F-bodies come with fairly tall gears. Personally I'll go with 3.08's and consider that an upgrade to keep economy at autobahn speeds (between 80 and 100 mph)

To the OP, if 200 FWHP is your goal, look no further.
Learn ROM programming or get a programmable ECM, read through the TBI stickies and learn how to get your fuel pressure up to approx. 14-15 PSI, and if you want to be fancy, pick up either an aftermarket or an LT1 cam.

You can leave the stock headers if you want to. Personally I'd advise to get Hooker 2460's with the 2,5" Y-pipe, a new cat and cat back system in 2,5". As stated before, that should be good enough to use the full powerband from idle to 5500 RPM, and won't be restrictive at 5500 RPM up to ~250 HP (remember the airpump).

To get rid of the unresponsive stock air intake (its just too long to be responsive) stick a $30 open element on top.

@ some, the ultimate TBI mods (the whole milling and stuff) only becomes interesting at the moment you find the stock TBI no longer supports more power. With the right pressure and injectors and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator the stock TBI unit will serve you fine up to about 400 HP. From there onwards, milling the bowls will get you another few%, but at that stage, picking up a Holley 4 barrel TBI or other setup supporting more power shouldn't be an issue considered what you already spent on the rest of your setup.

That's my 2 cents. I'd like to repeat however that I'm quite particular toward some details.

@SKELITOR, open element is a great mod. Just make sure there is plenty of space between the base of the aircleaner and the ignition cables. I went with a 1/2" spacer even though I have a flat base aircleaner. I intend to pick up a higher rise manifold, so I can get rid of the spacer alltogether witout worrying about these ignition cables.

I don't think the open element gave me additional HP, but it certainly helps throttle response. The biggest disadvantage is that the warm under hood air slightly bogs down the engine when sitting at a traffic light. I switch on my fan at traffic lights to get by for now, but will get a working cowl to fix this problem once and for all.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I just dont know if he considers a cam bolt on. I do. But I dunno about the original poster.

rob2000gt

iTrader: (1)

I just had my car dynoed today, it was very dissapointing compaired to you numbers 193 hp 272 tq at the wheels. I have full exhaust done headers to 3in all the way back. We will have to run them when I get out by you again maybe when we go to mobile al sept 11

Guest

The open element air cleaner is NOT the hot ticket for these cars. The reason it feels more responsive than the stock dual-snorkel, as I learned from trying both on the carbureted 350 I swapped into my old '86 IROC-Z, ( are you reading this, Skelitor? ) Is that the stock D-S has some sort of 1"-tall tin tower that needs to be removed. It's held in with 4 rivets. Once it's out, use pliers and bend back the remaining flange.
This way you get cooler outside air, not hot under-hood air heated by the radiator and the exhaust charge.

Guest

That's not right for 3.42:1 gears and 26" tires. So you must not be getting converter lock. You're around 250 rpm more than you should be.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Very true. Though an open filiment still sucks in more air. I would like to see the average hp gain from doing that and doing an open air filiment. One sucks in more cold air and one sucks in more air period. Dual snorkle with this mod is the way to go, but it's more expensive and hard to find.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I disagree, the open element takes it at least 5 times more air, and it's probably not that much hotter than the stock cleaner. Drive your car for 5 minutes then feel the stock cleaner, it will be just as hot as the rest of the engine, which is going to heat up the air so it's not going to be that much cooler than with the open element

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I feel the converter lock up so more than likely I have a failed tachometer not reading correctly.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

The TBI cars did not come with a dual snorkel. So the open element swap is being compared to the stock single snorkel which thier is no comparison

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Yup. The TBI has a single snorkle. Not a dual. If I had a dual I would't bother with the open filiment. There is a thread I think that tells you how to make one out of the stock set up, but I can't do it cause I have to much wiring and crap on my passenger side in the engine. Oh well.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I want an open element so that I can do the ultamate tbi mod, which only works with an open element.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

I havnt read over those ultimate tbi mods for 4 years or more.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Basically it helps air flow into the throttle body more smoothly by dremel tooling it in a way that allows for better air flow. But it only matters if you have air coming in from underneath, which isn't happening so long as there is a heatsheild.

Guest

No, it doesn't. It only flows as much as the TB can flow. And the modded dual-snorkel flows more than a Holley 570 TB can. So the open is no advantage at all.
Now, get a 6" cowl hood, a 540 BBC V8 built for 700 HP, and a 1050 Dominator carb. At this point, the L69 air cleaner won't suffice. But AIS has you covered. Fiberglass dual-snorkel air cleaners in your choice of spreads and heights.
A whole lot of hot air will never make the power of an adequate supply of cooler air.

Guest

In that case, call AIS.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

But the stock didn't flow enough for what the tbi can flow, an open element cleary flows much better than stock, how about you ask the 80% of the people who have an open element on their tbi, they didn't just put it there for looks, they put it there because it makes a HUGE difference over the stock setup

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, AIS? I'm abreviation retared.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Haha I know the feeling

Guest

So will the modded dual-snorkel. That 1" tower needs to come out. Or make your own dual by modding 2 single-snorkels.

Guest

Air Inlet Systems. I think it's Canadian.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Sorry, I just noticed this, anyone think it's funny that I'm only 17, have only been here for a month, and am already a senior member? My car isn't even legal yet. I am a discrace to fellow senior members, and I apologize.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'm not putting the dual-snorkel down, but open elements are easier to find, cheaper, cooler looking, and in my opinion, just better overall, even tho I do agree that a dual snorkel gives the same performance as an open element

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'm 17 too, but not a senior member yet haha

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

I like the open element's looks. And a duel snorkle air cleaner isn't practicle for my car, there's too much crap in the way of where the second snorkle would go.

Guest

No. It's a dumb system, and as 1gary says, junior member or senior member has nothing to do with the real world. Only how many posts. Maybe so we'll be more forgiving if a "junior" mis-posts?

Guest

As I typed, they offer a variety of spreads. They stock both 90 and 135 degree, IIRC. I have one on my pickup truck, but it's been a decade since I ordered it. I don't even recall the angle on it, I'd have to go out and look in the morning.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Yah, that's true. But if a senior member misposts or acts a fool, it's harsher, because more is naturally expected from a senior member. I will say this, I have learned quite alot in the time I've been here.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

To tell you the truth, I was going to get a dual snorkel at first, because when I got my car it came with the air box from a TPI setup, which sits right on top of the radiator, so I was going to run a hose from the second snorkel to that, but I just couldn't find one and ended up going with an open element

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

It's a great thing to have, but it's expensive, hard to find, doesn't always fit, and doesn't suck in as much air as as a open element. Cold air and hot air make a huge difference in how a car performs, but it wont matter if you can't suck in enough of either to feed the engine properly.

Guest

Again, the open element doesn't flow a bit more when the TB is the limiting factor.

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

Which is why doing the Ultamate TBI part 2 moddification, where you dremel tool the throttle body to help air flow, is so helpfull after getting an open air filiment.The TB is an extreme limiting factor, and the air delivery system is an extreme limiting factor. So you fix both. Then header back exhaust of course. And even better is all that allong with a better intake mannifold.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

What I have is a 14x3 open element, then I have the TPI air box in and the TBI air box with the hose connected mounted and the TBI hose is sitting close to the open element pointing right at it, and the TPI is pointing right at it too, so I'm not really sure, but I'm hoping that at least some air is coming through those into the open element, because it would be cooler air

SKELITOR117

iTrader: (3)

You got any pictures? Also look at the tech articlals for the Untamate TBI thing I was talking about. It would REALLY help with that set up you have.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

I'll try to post some tomorrow, and I would do those mods but last time I took the whole tbi unit off, I ended up having to buy a new one, so I don't think thats a very good idea haha but I'll take a picture and try to post it tomorrow, I'm not sure how much it helps with the air temp, but I hope it's doing something haha

thomas1976

(The stock LO3 TB is not restrictive up to around 270fwhp)

For around 200-220 RWHP:
-Cam, someting like a LT1 cam should be anough.
-Headers with highflow cat, plenty of 3" cat and catbacks out there.
-TPI fuel pump and VRFPR around 24psi fuel pressure
-EBL flash to tune it
-Replace/upgrade the stock aircleaner with something less restrictive.

For around 200FWHP
- LT1 cam
- AFPR with around 14 psi fuel pressure
- tune
- air cleaner
is probably the easiest way

88FormulaKiller

iTrader: (8)

I'm now LSx but I'll try to help since ive already went through a couple TBI engines unfortunatley.

Stock HP claimed @ 170 @ the FW, your losing an estimated 25% from fly to axle, 170 - 25% = 127ish Rwhp. So you need to gain back 42 to get back to 170 and another 30 to put you at 200 Rwhp. So what i did was use 75HP gain as a base # to reach. Start by reading up on the ultimate TBI mods. Once you've read those/installed/performed, start buying up some cheap "go fast" parts on ebay used or new, some headers, hi-flo cat. IF you can run an UD pulley w/o hurting your emissions try that out. Dont listen to anyone that gives you a hard time about 3HP gain's, if you do 5 mods that net you 5HP each, your already 1/3 of the way to reaching your 75HP gain goal.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

The cold air kit vs. open element is basically what do you like better. I have a cowl hood so I run the open element to keep that more old school muscle look. but if I had a stock hood id be running some sort of cold air setup. the motor is only going to suck so much but its important to make sure you have enough air for the motor. I dont think either is better than the other. maybe on my next turdgen i will go cold air. but it'll probably be TPI too so cant be straight apples to apples comparision. just put what you like. it'll be better than the horrible stock setup.

thomas1976

Not exactly.
In theory, can spin a 305 to around 6200rpm unrestricted with 450 CFM (LO3 TB), now a LO3 @ max hp rpm (around 4400rpm) can only suck in around 320 CFM.

thomas1976

You mean this guy? http://www.ramairbox.com/

thomas1976

Datalog and look at the IAT readings, the stock air cleaner is a sort of CAI. Yes it has phisical air flow restrictions, but not themperature related.

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

Didn't have time to take a picture today, but I don't work tomorrow so I probably can tomorrow

NagleMac

iTrader: (1)

this is my setup