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[i]Would an H pipe make it quiter? How do I find where to put it?
I am going to be running an edelbrock victor junior single plane, an NX N20 plate and a holly 750 DP. Maybe with a really low air intake it would fit.
[/b]
Yes a H pipe will quiet it down but you'll gain more from an X pipe over an H pipe. Run your duals and paint the pipe from the collectors back a coupple feet,the area where the paint stops burning off is where to put your X or H pipe.
As mentioned your carb and intake combo's not going to fit under a stock hood and thats without a N20 plate.
The most you can fit and just barely is a Performer RPM with a dropped base air cleaner and only on Camaros not on the Birds.
Thats with a Performer carb,not sure with a Holly.
He might be able to run that under the hood with a drop base aircleaner. It fit under my stock hood no problem. I ran the stock hood, Victor Jr, 1/2 inch spacer and Demon carb for quite a while then got the cowl hood when the nitrous plate was put on. That extra 1/2 inch or whatever the Cheater plate is plus the 1/2 inch phenolic spacer did hit the stock hood.
Originally posted by rx7speed how is this for a sleeper
just get rid of the side pipes?
anyone want to guess what kind of car it is what what it's packing?
That looks like one of those old *** Hondas from the 70s?? Judging from the sidepipes I'll guess it has a SBC or some other V8?
I think the perfect sleeper is an 87 Buick Regal Limited complete with the chrome trim, column shifter, padded split bench seats, and vinyl top. Same drivetrain as the Grand National, but looks like a granny car. It's still a quiet V6 but with the right mods quiet can rip 9 and 10 second passes with the AC on.
Originally posted by IROCZZ3 That looks like one of those old *** Hondas from the 70s?? Judging from the sidepipes I'll guess it has a SBC or some other V8?
your right it is one of those old *** honda's from the 70's
don't know the exact year but it is a civic at least
how's this for your cup of ****
but yeah i would say first off get rid of the triangle air filter and then the sidepipes and put a nice quite muffler on there and I think it would make a decent sleeper
Originally posted by Nate86 Hardly a sleeper; that thing looks mint.
so you mean to tell me a car that came with a motor only putting out soimething like 56horsepower and something like 65lbs/ft of torque can't be a sleeper just because it looks like someone took care of the car?
never was aware that a car in good shape couldn't be a sleeper.
only thing to my opinion that throws the sleeper vibe off is the side pipes and the fact that it is prolly fairly loud.
but if I saw a car like that that looked and sounded fairly stock I wouldn't think much of it. come on an OLD HONDA?
most the new ones aren't even that fast much less one from the 70's when the highest horsepower one came with something like 70 horsepower.
Originally posted by MrDude_1 right now its N/A.. the turbosetup is just tacked together on a engine stand.. it'll be in there eventually, but im not made of money
have any links or info on your friends supra? i cant find alot of people running the HX40 on gas powered street cars....
note:
to all thoes talking about loud exhausts....
.... you dont get it. lol. shouldnt you be boasting...err... posting about how loud it is in any thread on here, except this one?
So what kind of exhaust set-up do you have on it? And if the turbo is mocked up on a stand, what engine is in it?
Originally posted by Tibo So what kind of exhaust set-up do you have on it? And if the turbo is mocked up on a stand, what engine is in it?
right now, the exhaust is a stock 4thgen z28 catback with electric cutouts. the engine in the car is a 02 LS1 with some bolt ons and tuning tweaked a little..
the turbo setup is mocked up on a engine stand on a busted LS1 in the garage.. previous owner of this LS1 decided to see if it would work underwater.. punched 3 rods thru the side... but its still good for mockup work.. i even have a spare Kmember to hang off the motor mounts...
turbo and everything else is on hold as of yesterday.. i blew up my 10bolt.. again... im rebuilding this one, but after that, im not buying anything else until i put a 9" in... im just stick of worrying about my rear diff...
Originally posted by Supervisor42 I built a sleeper. The hardest part is keeping the underhood looking stock and still make over 350 HP without nitrous.
I finished everything but the exhaust. I have an audio/video clip of the engine with only turndowns after the longtube headmans. Check it out.
You can hear why it probably needs mufflers. I've driven it a bunch on the street as is but then again, this is Alabama. I need some pictures of true dual systems that you guys have installed. Email me
I like your car. It reminds me that you can actually put work into stock GM stuff and make it run just as good, if not better than some aftermarket stuff. (David Vizard is a believer in this too)
Originally posted by Supervisor42 I built a sleeper. The hardest part is keeping the underhood looking stock and still make over 350 HP without nitrous.
I finished everything but the exhaust. I have an audio/video clip of the engine with only turndowns after the longtube headmans. Check it out.
You can hear why it probably needs mufflers. I've driven it a bunch on the street as is but then again, this is Alabama. I need some pictures of true dual systems that you guys have installed. Email me
That is what I would actually call a sleeper. A car that looks fairly stock, but can lay dowm some good times. TPI and carb cars that can scream, and even the LO3's that can get 12 and 13's.
I like Mr. Dudes car, but I think that is far from a sleeper. The rims and paint would visually give it away. Then if I saw the engine, no way would I race it. People who think it looks slow or stock are just plain stupid. Anyone who can put in an LS series engine already know how to make a car fast.
There is a difference between loud exhaust and obnoctious exhaust too. Mine is loud, but not obnoctious. Some of the new trucks run obnoctious exhaust and think it is sooo great. A 10-15ft long pipe with a dia. of 2" with 4" tips, and no mufflers is annoying as, well.
Originally posted by REALPOWER I like your car. It reminds me that you can actually put work into stock GM stuff and make it run just as good, if not better than some aftermarket stuff. (David Vizard is a believer in this too)
Actually none of the engine is stock from this car. True, that is a quadrajet sitting on a GM aluminum dual plane intake with a stock air cleaner on top. Here's a breakdown of what's underneath:
Block: 2 bolt main 350 block seasoned, standard bore from 72 or 74 camaro.
Crank: Cast, mains .010 undersize.
Rods: stock, selected from 16 proof tested, assemblies balanced +-3g
Oil pump: Stock new replacement.
Pistons: TRW LF2304 forged 11:1 with moly rings. (I paid $249.00 for these in 1984)
Cam: Isky 280 HL. duration 280` at 0 lift. 224` duration at .050 lift. valve lift with 1.5 rockers: .465 intake & exhaust. lobe center: 108` (a little hotter than the '69 L46 but very close).
Lifters: Isky 202-HY anti-pump-up.
Cylinder heads: "462" heads from '68 327/300 (called "camel-hump") 1.92 intake 1.5 exhaust ported. (will outflow stock 2.02's)
Cylinder head gaskets: GM steel shim type (very important)
Valves: Stock.
Valve springs: Isky 6005 double springs 1.430" OD.
Retainers: Isky 507-STA (installed spring height .063 above stock).
Rockers: Stock 1.5 with pressed in studs.
Intake: Factory aluminum q-jet manifold.
Carburetor: 750 Quadrajet (most all are 650s)
Distributor: Stock HEI from 72-74 with adjustable vacuum advance and spring & weight kit from Jegs. (has been run to 6700)
Spark plugs: Champion RJ12YC gap: .035
Starter: Delco double-shunt from 454 (I rebuilt)
168 tooth flex plate
2300 stall lockup converter
Last edited by Supervisor42; 10-03-2005 at 08:21 PM.
Originally posted by Supervisor42 Actually none of the engine is stock from this car. True, that is a quadrajet sitting on a GM aluminum dual plane intake with a stock air cleaner on top. Here's a breakdown of what's underneath:
Block: 2 bolt main 350 block seasoned, standard bore from 72 or 74 camaro.
Crank: Cast, mains .010 undersize.
Rods: stock, selected from 16 proof tested, assemblies balanced +-3g
Oil pump: Stock new replacement.
Pistons: TRW LF2304 forged 11:1 with moly rings. (I paid $249.00 for these in 1984)
Cam: Isky 280 HL. duration 280` at 0 lift. 224` duration at .050 lift. valve lift with 1.5 rockers: .465 intake & exhaust. lobe center: 108` (a little hotter than the '69 L46 but very close).
Lifters: Isky 202-HY anti-pump-up.
Cylinder heads: "462" heads from '68 327/300 (called "camel-hump") 1.92 intake 1.5 exhaust ported. (will outflow stock 2.02's)
Cylinder head gaskets: GM steel shim type (very important)
Valves: Stock.
Valve springs: Isky 6005 double springs 1.430" OD.
Retainers: Isky 507-STA (installed spring height .063 above stock).
Rockers: Stock 1.5 with pressed in studs.
Intake: Factory aluminum q-jet manifold.
Carburetor: 750 Quadrajet (most all are 650s)
Distributor: Stock HEI from 72-74 with adjustable vacuum advance and spring & weight kit from Jegs. (has been run to 6700)
Spark plugs: Champion RJ12YC gap: .035
Starter: Delco double-shunt from 454 (I rebuilt)
168 tooth flex plate
2300 stall lockup converter
SO basically, everything major is a GM part. Heads, crank, rods, carb, intake etc....
Originally posted by MrDude_1 are sleepers dead?
am i the only guy left that thinks a car that goes fast with a non-existant (quiet) exhaust sound is cool?
am i the only one with a fast car that doesnt want attention from everyone when i drive by?
Not for anything,but this is coming from someone with a bright orange convertible with 18" chrome wheels?
Agreed, definitely a beautiful car... but not anyone's definition of a sleeper!
Back to the original subject though, the exhaust...I'm not personally into the "sleeper" thing but I'm not a huge fan of the "open headers" sound either. I've heard some AWESOME sounding thirdgens (and 4th-gens) that are definitively aftermarket but kind of modern and almost exotic-sounding, not like Joe Hillbilly's pickup truck with some of them there open headers over yonder.
I hear the Edelbrock system is kind of like this, and the Hooker too (but not quite as much)
I do have to say though, we used to get a kick riding in my friend's old IROC, long story short he had to hack off the cat/muffler to get to the fuel pump (it was very rusty) and he drove around with essentially straight pipes for a few months. People would look at him with their jaws dropped and be like "Damn, what do you have in that thing" and he'd reply "A stock 350!"
Originally posted by REALPOWER SO basically, everything major is a GM part. Heads, crank, rods, carb, intake etc....
Yep. The pistons could technically be considered GM because TRW made pistons for GM. And then there is the cam, lifters and springs... They are mostly responsible for it pulling hard past 6500 (and the nasty idle). Interresting is the carb and intake combo. This is always the first thing to be changed to increase the horsepower on a stock engine. Which it does. But how much power are those parts good for with a suitable engine underneath? The Qjet can easily produce 450+ horsepower with plenty of engine under it.
I put the engine in a S-10 to break it in. The first pass at the strip it smoked the 8" tires all the way thru the 1/8th mile traps...with a 305 block in the right rear of the bed for weight. Got that on video. That only leaves the intake, and as soon as I can get it on a dyno, I'll tell you what it will make. I do know that GM made 350 hp with it though...
Last edited by Supervisor42; 10-04-2005 at 07:18 PM.
my car looks nothing like any of those pics now.. its a very stock dark metallic red... with the bowtie grill, and GM silver LS1 Z28 rims.. the rims dont standout, and most people think they're stock..
id keep the stockers, except they have that brake dust under the clearcoat problem, and they dont tuck as nice with the 4thgen rear.
Originally posted by Tibo
I like Mr. Dudes car, but I think that is far from a sleeper. The rims and paint would visually give it away. Then if I saw the engine, no way would I race it. People who think it looks slow or stock are just plain stupid. Anyone who can put in an LS series engine already know how to make a car fast.
the rims and paint look stock.
the engine could be stock.... if you dont know what the hell you're looking at. lol. i agree they're stupid.
but you can still hook the smart ones.
just say you have a cold air intake, and talk **** like a moron... works good to catch thoes punks that try to steal money from the slower kids just starting out...
besides, with a quiet exhaust NOONE thinks you're fast.
My motor is going to have a ton of grunt but I want it to be dead quiet unless it I step on it. Anybody have any suggestions about set ups to get this done?
I think all sleepers need quiet pipes. That is a must.
its kinda wierd how i noticed this, but take the 4thgen LS1 Z28 muffler for example.
if you go from a 100% stock exhaust to a full exhaust, it makes a huge diff..
replacing the stock Ypipe with a ORY (off road Y).. or atleast one that isnt crushed oval... drops tenths off.. huge gain.
doing the headers, full catback everything.. of course theres a gain.
now leave the full catback on, leave the ORY and the longtubes... and put the stock muffler on.. less then half a tenth loss... and some of that has to just be the weight.
you can put a cutout in the I pipe, then do back to back to back runs swapping between OEM muffler (supposedly the worse) and no muffler at all (supposedly the best)
on any given night, the diff between them is nill.. its the kind of measurement you'll only see at the dragstrip.. not something youd see on the street.
my theory for this is simple.. in the 70s and 80s, they couldnt make powerful cars emissions legal... a quiet but backpressure causing muffler makes catalytic converters work better... its cheap to make... and it does its job...
roll up to the late 90s to present... efficiency is the name of the game.. the converters dont need anything special.. what the OEMs need is max fuel economy to keep their CAFE up... so they make quiet mufflers that, while not designed for performance, flow well to keep the restriction to a min....
for a even better example of this, look at a newer chevy truck.. the muffler is half the size of the bed.. lol.
i don't want to bother with going over the axle and my motor is going to want to breath a LOT so I am going to just go with straight duals, oval and spintechs. Seems to be the best way to go for clearance and flow. I can tuck it up a lot too. Then After it is in maybe I can add inserts into the collectors for added muffling. Oh well I will let you guys know how it sounds.
__________________ Selling:
-Victor Jr. intake, less than 4k miles on it.
Originally posted by dennisbernal91z i don't want to bother with going over the axle and my motor is going to want to breath a LOT so I am going to just go with straight duals, oval and spintechs. Seems to be the best way to go for clearance and flow. I can tuck it up a lot too. Then After it is in maybe I can add inserts into the collectors for added muffling. Oh well I will let you guys know how it sounds.
........ Oh well. haha. I am happy with trying to make it quiet once it is all togeather. As long as I have clearance then I am happy. I can allways add more inserts or get muffled tips or something down the road.
Only real bad part is the price. Oval shiz is expensive. damn.,
__________________ Selling:
-Victor Jr. intake, less than 4k miles on it.
So, this is not a thirdgen, I take it. Maybe a pickup or something?
__________________ Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate. — William of Ockham, from Quaestiones et decisiones in quattuor libros Sententiarum Petri Lombardi
Roughly paraphrased into modern English, and applied to figuring out what's wrong with your car:
The simplest explanation that fits all the facts is probably the right one.
Straying away from the topic of exhausts, but still on the topic of sleepers.
Here's something that I've considered, which would probabaly cross the line from being a sleeper into the realm of cheating.
Put a miniram or LT1 intake on there, and then fab up an old TPI intake, and slip it over the top to make it look like a stock L98 or LB9.
Compliment that with a stroker block and some aftermarket heads... And Surprise!
With a stock hood and quiet mufflers, it's the kind of setup that could get the owner run out of town.
Last edited by Streetiron85; 10-05-2005 at 08:09 PM.
Originally posted by Streetiron85 Straying away from the topic of exhausts, but still on the topic of sleepers.
Here's something that I've considered, which would probabaly cross the line from being a sleeper into the realm of cheating.
Put a miniram or LT1 intake on there, and then fab up an old TPI intake, and slip it over the top to make it look like a stock L98 or LB9.
Compliment that with a stroker block and some aftermarket heads... And Surprise!
With a stock hood and quiet mufflers, it's the kind of setup that could make the owner have to leave town.
my 99 TA is mostly stock except for some bolt ons, a 150 shot, headers, sfc's, some spohn stuff, and 411's in a 12bolt. Aside from the headers exhaust is stock except for a glass pack I've added before the muffler to quiet it down a tad (I have 2 electric dumps b4 the y-pipe) more and sounds really really quiet at idle. To accompany it I've added a firebird front bumper, spoiler, nameplate, and replaced trans am on the doors with firebird, it also have the base model 16 inch non-crome wheels on it. Kind of retarded I know, but all the parts were free and the right color since a friend of mine totaled his v6, I still have all my origional parts stored in my garage. Its fun to take it to the track and run low 12's or race the local retarded kids on the street and see the confused look on peoples faces.
Originally posted by Streetiron85 Straying away from the topic of exhausts, but still on the topic of sleepers.
Here's something that I've considered, which would probabaly cross the line from being a sleeper into the realm of cheating.
Put a miniram or LT1 intake on there, and then fab up an old TPI intake, and slip it over the top to make it look like a stock L98 or LB9.
I have seen some stock lookin' motors built to take a ton of N20. With all the plumbing 100% hidden. car is dead quiet and you can't see any sign of the spray. Dep supprises people. haha.
Originally posted by Free Bird I'd like to see that. lol
It's just some harebrained idea that popped into my head one night while I was burning the midnight oil. I'm sure you gotta know how that can happen sometimes.
It might be a while before I follow through with it.
Til then you can look at a pic of a TPI, and imagine a miniram tucked inconspicuously underneath it.
its always fun to surprise ppl in a car that sounds stock and moves well
but a loud car can be a 13 second car or a 9 second car... so might as well go somewhat loud and enjoy the sound. its shooting for a tone that u like cuz its ur car and u drive it. thats my style... i want something that idles mean and scares ppl... makes them go "OH sh!T"
Originally posted by Orr89RocZ but a loud car can be a 13 second car or a 9 second car... so might as well go somewhat loud and enjoy the sound. its shooting for a tone that u like cuz its ur car and u drive it. thats my style... i want something that idles mean and scares ppl... makes them go "OH sh!T"
so guess it's time to go modify my honda and put some bullets on the rear to make it loud since i tend to like the sound of bullets right?
whatever floats ur boat man... go put bullets on ur honda. never heard that combo before, but if u like it go for it.
supervisor thats a pretty sick sounding car.. love the lope
thats the thing about some cars, you can tell it might have some work done, but sometimes u never can tell how much.
it might lope a bit or sound pretty mean, but it could be a 13 second car to a 10 second car, who knows. i have heard many 10-11 second cars that sound mild compared to some loud 12-13 second cars
Originally posted by Orr89RocZ
supervisor thats a pretty sick sounding car.. love the lope
I hope you mean "sick" in a good way. (some of us old-timers think a V8 running on 6 cylinders sounds sick) The sound you hear was everywhere in the 70's. My project is a little bit of a nostalgia trip also. The engine is blueprinted off of the '69 L46 350/350 that GM only made for 1 year. Try to find a cam with a 108` lobe separation angle nowadays... Also, in my first post I mentioned that I had finished everything except the exhaust.
Maybe I'm procrastinating because I just love that sound, when it swings past 6000 it sounds like nascar.....I just hate to muzzle it. Hopefully a new video/audio clip coming soon in action on the road.
Last edited by Supervisor42; 10-07-2005 at 07:26 PM.
I have had more than my share of loud cars, so I'm not one to criticize anyone for that...heck, most of the motorcycles running around are far louder than our cars are. BTW don't put an X-pipe on anything that you want to be quiet...they aren't any louder at most speeds than an H-pipe, but at certain RPMS you'll get an awful resonance that is even worse if you have louder mufflers (like Spintechs, for example!). I once had a supercharged 91 Mustang LX coupe with LT headers, a 3" Bassani x-pipe (no cats), and 1 chamber Flowmasters with turndowns, and it sounded awesome (VERY loud)...until you got to about 3500rpm, and it sounded like a really loud duck quacking! Extremely annoying...
I'm about to start on a sleeper project of my own, though...a beat up 85 Trans Am that is going to get a mildly cammed (mild enough to not lope) 500ci Caddy motor. I'll get it running NA first, then add the turbos...
Around here, street racers rarely lift the hood before a race, so the presence of the 500 will go unnoticed until its too late!
__________________ 1981 Corvette LSX/T56 Project
1987 Trans Am
1985 Trans Am
1997 Camaro SS #359 383 LT1 - Sold 8/12/09
Just interested in what pipes you plan to run on that TA. I need to design my exhaust for my 500 HP 91 camaro and need ideas badly. The new motor gets to my house this week and I would love to fire it up soon after. THX
Originally posted by Streetiron85 It's just some harebrained idea that popped into my head one night while I was burning the midnight oil. I'm sure you gotta know how that can happen sometimes.
It might be a while before I follow through with it.
Til then you can look at a pic of a TPI, and imagine a miniram tucked inconspicuously underneath it.
You would leave the entire LT1 or miniram intake intact.
You could grind or machine away the underside of the TPI plenum for clearance over the smaller intake...
Like I said, it's just some nutty idea I came up with.
It's non-tech, just some cosmetic underhood thing to make people think your car is slow.
Try it... find out... and post if you get it figured out. I won't charge you any money for the idea.
plus it's pretty much next door to where I work. I unloaded the car after going to the track and "cleaned off" the tires 
