89fbirdformula

The TPI vortec combo above ran 12.20/12.40's on a drag radial on motor with ported SLP runners/ported and siamesed plenum, and a 52mm tb...

with 100% stock TPI, it would go 12.70/12.80s, keep in mind this was with a NITROUS tune, was tuned rather rich, and timing was conservative...

On spray it went 11.29@127 with the drag radials, and a crappy 1.8 60ft..never tried slicks with the 9bolt, didnt wanna break it.

this was done with 100% untouched vortecs, aside from valve springs..ports/bowls/chambers 100% stock and unmodified.

The new setup is much nicer, though its setup for forced induction with a comp turbo cam, it runs very nice on motor, and the numbers show that.

heres a vid of the old TPI/vortec/mild SLP cam...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgfyV5mh4lg

heres a vid of the new HSR/vortec/comp turbo cam...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mUWj...eature=channel

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I love guys like you that get a bling free result. Major Props!!!!

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Snowflake, got your PM if you still want to bounce this around you can call me tonight. It was past midnight last night and I couldn't think all that much.

Bottom line is if you're hell bent on throwing away $500, go nuts. I'd perfer to see you in Vortecs and meet your goals.

If you change your goals, that's another issue. Like I said, Profiler is a good product for the money and a few hundred bucks cheaper than what else is out there. They are 100% made in America and Profiler owns their own foundry. Let me know on those. I don't sell junk parts.

I'd perfer to see you save the money, then buy heads from me or anyone else. But your call.

89fbirdformula

the vortec TPI intake is 465 new..which is outrageous...and isnt the route id go if buying new...

Personally, im very happy with how my CHEAP vortec setup performs, id recomend to anyone..

vortec heads can be bought for 100 bucks give or take ~50, mild cleanup on them, toss some comp 918s on em, clean the deck and toss em on, and you're good to go. the toss up here is what to do about the intake..

vortec TPI base is 465{new}200 for runners{used}and then legwork to port/siamese the plenum, etc etc...

vortec HSR is 365+ 240 for the fuel rail kit{ you CANNOT use fast/edelbrock/pro products rails on the vortec HSR}

That said, im happier with the power the HSR makes, its nice being able to spin the motor to 6k...my shift point on the vortec TPI motor was 4500, for reference.


Car was tossed on the dyno last saturday to confirm/disprove that my AEM WB was reading false..{i was getting very LEAN wot numbers}

it laid down 363@5700/439@4500 on a dynojet, no fancy corrections.

it confirmed my AFR is infact very lean, and points out the knock counts i was getting, upwards of 40 counts in a single pull, and 15/18* pulled.

Had to back the timing down to keep knock counts down, the car shows promise, i am very happy with it drivability wise, and power wise...its finally starting to pull hard!

I'm trying to schedule a few hours on a mustang dyno for this weekend to dial the car in...hoping for 380s

Btw, the cam is 230I/236E , .530I/.550E 118 lsa

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

YOu are quick to pass judgement. Believe me I know flow numbers arent the end all say all of heads and I'm not refering to flow numbers alone as advertised, but actually numbers the motor will see. Flowbench at 28" of H2O, do you think motor sees this same pressure? No. These cant be measured while the motor is running and are dependent on valve size/area, placement, port shape, chamber design, etc. Theres a difference. Flow bench is a tuning tool just like a dyno, doesnt necessarily mean much. Just saying older tech heads compared to the modern ports these days, you should have much better efficiency and capability with a better designed head. New stuff isnt just ported versions of old layouts for more flow numbers on a bench...its a designed shape of the port and valve placement as shown in your articles.

As far as what do you get for an extra 500? That depends on the combo. As I already stated, he doesnt need crazy heads to do this power...I suggested cleaned up vette L98's cause you can get them cheap, they are lightweight and work well, but if you ever want to upgrade down the road, and MOST of us will because you get used to the power, atleast he already has the heads that will support it. And if you went aluminum over iron, 50 lbs is weight well lost on an already front end heavy car. That alone picks up some ET at the track although small but every bit of weight reduction helps

For sake of arguement, cam only LT1 on stock heads will do 350whp most of the time and they are somewhat similar to vette L98s but flow a touch more. Add ported heads and intake to match, no other changes, they go over 400whp. Thousands of guys have results like this all over the net. Port shape was reworked to allow more flow and it shows on the dyno, so the better port allowed more power. Aftermarket head porters for those heads developed the port from many hours of testing after many hours of porting/flowbenching/etc. But this is for higher power goals than whats in this thread for now so it really isnt applicable to this thread.

Read above, this comment was to show he has potential upgrade in his combo down the road if he ever decides to go with more power etc.

meaningless? I guess all the track times/dyno results showing ported head power gains on otherwise unchanged cam/intake motors is meaningless. I thought you enjoyed going fast? You seem like an intelligent person, i'm surprised you disagree with this? Care to explain your reasoning? I dont want to turn this thread into an arguement but I am very curious to know where you are coming from.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

You're my hero.

Check this out. A "BLING" motor vs. run of the mill:



And this:



Can you tell me which is which?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats a very nice and strong combination of parts. Working very well together. I didnt know the base was THAT expensive, holy hell! Shame too because it shouldnt be much different than the regular TPI base.

Vortec heads dont use alot of timing from most of the tunes i've seen, 28 deg wouldnt be too far off optimal i'd think. I've seen guys here post 30-32 deg alot.

Crazy looking turbo cam, on a VERY wide LSA. I wouldnt have thought that but its working well. My cam is only a single pattern on a 112 for a turbo setup and about same duration but its on a larger motor so its not acting quite as big. I think you will definatey have a chance at 380whp once tuned. Those are lean numbers for air fuel, it should pick up well.

Doom86

It's a bit confusing really he says he has a TPI 350 motor which to me says he has 083 heads. Then that he has a roller L31 short block.

The benefit of using higher flowing heads is you can achieve the same peak power with less duration which means more low end power and everywhere under peak.

Your goal is still modest so I still think china Vortec heads, or equivalent, are good and will leave room for improvement later. Use a mild cam like http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-465-8/ and it will pull a stump with the best of them and still make the peak power you want.

89fbirdformula

yeah, 32 total is roughly where vortecs like to be, im also trying to figure out if im getting false knock counts from my roller tip comp rockers...

as far as the cam, i thought the same, but its what comp spec'd me for the cam, mainly because of the somewhat lazy exhaust ports on vortecs.

and yeah, the pricing for a vortec base is NUTS, and for less flow, its highway robbery! it really is a shame, because its one HELL of a street combo, the bottom end power WAY down low was just unreal, i used to just shift into 5th by 35-40 mph..it would pull without lugging even down to idle RPM lol..


Heres my take on the heads deal..

the money is no object deal is a foolish approach, i agree with both ORR, and injectorsplus...its a toss up really

if he has plans to upgrade later, then yes, buy larger heads..and deal with it until the future upgrades...

but if he never plans to exceed roughly 300whp...then they simply arent needed..

a set of mildly worked over 083s or STOCK vortecs, will put you right where you want to be...no muss,no fuss..slap the heads on, stuff a cam in it..and there you go. 300+

the OP of this thread needs to post up what his REALISTIC goals for the car are now, and short term/long term goals.

89fbirdformula

The hell with some junk CHINA heads...

If you're gonna put vortecs on the thing, use real ones. too many people have issues with those knockoff heads..some have good luck, but many dont, do you want to spend the coin and end up one of the unlucky ones?

Do it right the first time, you will always save more money that way.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

This is misleading.... The top one is your version of run of the mill but its a cast crank 383, with somewhat cheaper rods but mahle pistons, then Lloyd Elliott ported LT4 heads and cam...judging by the numbers and head flows, it looks like an LE2 package. Given the rpm range on the dyno, i'd say yes LE2 cam which is near 230 deg duration on a tight LSA. Given that it was posted in March 2008, it should be a Bret Bauer cam. Lloyd switched over at some point. Early 08 I had a BRE cam because he was doing LE grinds so I'm almost certain its a Bauer cam which most LE2 grinds were around 230-234 on a 108 LSA or so but they all varied in small degrees (no pun intended). 383 may have LE3 cam tho, which the LE3 355 cam is LE2 in 383 or so it used to be. Those were bigger in the higher 230's duration, but tight LSA. Very strong numbers for that setup. THose are good packages.

The bottom is a guy on corvette forum, i knew I seen that graph before. AFR 210 heads 370 inch LT4 motor with a bigger lift cam. .620s lift and 230/236 on a 112. Better heads, possibly bigger cam, and dry sump oil and different dyno, it makes sense it makes more hp at a slight loss of torque.

Hard to compare these builds. Different dynos and no idea on the exact specs on the heads/cam on the LT4. I will say this that the ported LT4 heads probably spec out over 210cc while AFR heads are 210cc, so should be more velocity there. Both of these motors i wouldnt consider "run of the mill" but given cost difference between LE heads and AFRs yes the above one is better bang for buck. BOth are nice builds but two different applications and alot of variables between the two.

snowflake

Correct, I have a 89 formula with the stock 350 motor. Non roller..
I will replace the stock motor with a 99 vortec roller cam motor, but need the heads. I was not sure what heads to put back on, whether it be vortec or aluminium..

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Right, we will agree newer technology is better. Same with cam profiles. A newer, more modern cam profile will give a better result also. But if we agree flow isn't really relevent, why do we talk about it.

That right there as you point out is the problem with static flow numbers. You can not measure the activity in the operational environment. You can get close with wet flow, and even closer with a Spintron, but to determine what is going to happen at 100HG is a lot different than 28 and there is no relationship between them. Good smooth flow at 28G can be a reverberating mess at 100.

That being said, as you point out, the size and shape of the port makes a difference too. It's about the QUALITY of the flow. This is typically determined by the cross sectional area. A small port with big flow numbers will lock up because the air going through the port TOO FAST and there needs to be more cross sectional area to slow it down, so read as a bigger port with less flow will out perform a smaller port with more flow given certain conditions. In a recent conversation with the OWNER of a head company. We were discussing their development of a new BBC head. They made a 3XX runner and a 3XX runner. The flow was similar but the AIR SPEED was too fast on the small one, and too slow on the big one, so they manipulated the CSA to get the air speed right. That's the kind of stuff you don't see on a flow bench. Flow numbers, again, are nothing more than marketing.

Well, it's just my opinion that before we tell someone to blow $500 we should have some insight as to what he's going to gain. Yes, cleaning up stock heads will work. It's about the right part for the job. Adjusting suspension has picked up .5 seconds on many occassions. It's about the combination from the rear end, to the frame, to the motor. Until and unless all 3 are optimized to each other the gains will be limited.

I disagree. The laws of physics apply regardless of the power goals. The only difference is one of durability and money.

And if he doesn't, he pissed away $500. He could spring for $1500 connecting rods too, just in case, oh and a $2500 oil pan, and while he's at it just to be safe, a $9000 oiling system.



Sure. I have two businesses I am involved in which are related to this topic. The first, of course, is the fuel systesm business. The second is a social media marketing business, in which I am the expert on internet forums. I have written papers for professionals on forum dynamics.

I'm not arguing. Sorry if it comes across that way.

My bottom line is the guy wants a particular result. The thing here is to build the motor with like parts. You don't put a Bryant $3000 crank in "just in case". You don't use $1500 rods "just in case".

I think that given his goals, the most effective way to get there with the CORRECT amount of money spent is a Vortec head. I don't think the other $500 is going to give him the gains that make that purchase worth it.

I also have been on a multi year crusade regarding what consists of good information on forums. I know people have good intentions but sometimes, myself included on many subjects, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I walked the floor of the factory of DART with the CEO, who knows me persnoally. I have seen how heads are made from beginning to end in their factory. I have been to World Products to see the Merlin blocks. I know Darin Morgan, he's in my speed dial. I have stopped a CNC machine that was making a billet aluminum block and reached in and touched the product during production. I have studied the nuance of what makes heads work and what doesn't. I have talked to the experts in the field who design and develop heads for every application. From Curtis Boggs, to Chad Spier. I think at this point I have a PHD in heads....

I think my point is with all the advertising that passes for fact, read as any magazine article that has a "winner", has made it's way into the forum vernacular and accepted as fact, when in fact, it isn't.

I find it quite interesting that people who are typically intelligent and skeptical when they get an email from the Prince of Uganda do not question manufacturer fed bull**** when they see it.

So, my agenda, is to try to help Snowflake meet his needs using parts that make sense to the entire build. Not to spend money on cool stuff.

Those dyno graphs above, there's about $4000 between those two motors. You look at the graph and tell me who is the idiot.

Sorry if I come off as adversarial, sometimes that happens, I don't mean to I just get frustrated. I've been through it one too many times.

snowflake

Real simple. This is a one time deal. No drag strip time. No 150 MPH freeway chasing, Just light to light in the city fun. I figure if I can get 300 RWHP My torq would help me kick some *** from light to light street racing fun.

The only thing i promise that will happen in a few month is a 97 T56 swap!!!

89fbirdformula

Since im your hero and all...gimme the hookup on a set of injectors

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Hey snowflake, thanks for the call,

here's the link

http://www.bulletcams.com/

I hope I helped. Good luck, if there is ANYTHING I can help you with, don't hesitate to call.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Done, what do you need, get it fast I'm feelin' generous!

Guest

Wow, dropped down to name dropping.

None of that stuff about head flow is news to me, seen it all before.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I think in context it was appropriate. Just trying to explain my background to support my points.

Glad it's not news, laws of physics don't change from year to year...

89fbirdformula

what ya recomend?

for now through fall, and for this motor entirely...its staying N/A with nitrous, i have plans to go turbo, as i just bought a BBS setup...but that will be on a diffy motor, in another chassis..i also have a BBC build going in a thirdgen right now haha.

im looking to upgrade from the injectors in my formula right now, to some GOOD 30#ers, i dont think i need more injector than that..

If ya got some time or something, shoot me a number to call, or i can send mine via PM?

89fbirdformula

If thats what you want, and all you want..

honestly, id suggest going the TPI route..with vortecs..for the money, they CANNOT be beat.

low lift flow is unreal with these heads, which is what you want/need for drivability, and power where the street uses it the most.

Copy my build, you wont be disapointed, if ya want al lthe specs, let me know and ill type it all out for you..if your shortblock's in good condition{oil pressure in check/ring seal ok etc etc..} it will make the numbers.

Nothing exotic needed, slap it together, and go simplicity on the CHEAP.

snowflake

Its in his Sig (PROFILE).

Doom86

Any and all heads are subject to defects. You should be inspecting them before they are on the motor so you can send them back if there's a problem.

These heads are far better then stock Vortec heads and I'm not just talking about flow.

I would wager that stock vortec heads have more problems then aftermarket seeing how they have a crack "coined" after them. I haven't heard of a china vortec crack yet.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

OK, I had a second to think. Here's the 2 things that got under my skin here:

1. Nobody bothered to ask SNOWFLAKE what his real goals were. I did. He wants a stoplight to stoplight car, that maybe someday he will change the intake.

2. Everyone says: In the event you want some more power some day......go with the "better heads". OK, I have a question.... HOW MUCH HP WILL VORTEC HEADS SUPPORT?

Well, from my experience about 450. So I have to ask....what is he possibly going to do to this motor that will add 150 HP to this motor. His only goal is to MAYBE switch the intake at some point, unless this is a magic intake, I don't see how he gets to 150HP.

To max out these heads he's into a new cam and many other mods, compression, etc....

I he does that he's pulling the motor and spending more than $500. $500 will be chump change at that point.

So really, the real question is will the vortec support the amount of power this motor will ever see? YES! So the upgrade line goes right out the window.

I have a guy in Austrailia running what we'd all consider a "street car" running 11s. Nothing wrong with that.

Doom86

A 89 stock 350ci TPI is indeed a roller block no doubt. Unless someone swapped it at some point.

There are a few different companies out there with Vortec heads made for a standard center-bolt intake keep that in mind. They don't all use the vortec intake, mostly just the GM cast one's do.

89fbirdformula

In my defense, i asked the number 1 question..

450/500 hp seems to be about the limit for vortecs/ 525ish max for an all out race motor, with big compression, big cam etc etc...

I am really hoping when i get my tune finished, that im around 380 rwhp, for what i have invested...i couldnt be happier really..

i spent alot on parts not needed to make things pretty, and change routing which cost me more money..but its not needed, i only did it cuz its what i wanted..

and its sexy haha

89fbirdformula

do you have any actual experience first hand with these so called BETTER china heads? a quick google search fro mthe few known china knockoffs, dont yield good results..

i almost bought a set of patriot bbc heads for my current build, i passed and bought edelbrocks instead..isnt worth the risk to me.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

OK OK OK not picking on you......just sayin if he's going into the 500HP range, that car needs a lot more than just heads. So why throw money at something that will never come to fruition?

Doom86

So you are berating my experience with them based on; A brief google search, And your "almost using them".

Yep you got me there.

much better flow..
screw in studs..
5 angle valve job..
1.4 spring pocket..
.575 lift spring..
guide plates..

Am I missing anything that makes them better that I don't have to use the head to find out? Oh yeah you don't have to have a $400 intake to use TPI.

89fbirdformula

i agree, thats why i told him to just copy my build/setup.

Funny thing is, my previous TPI setup with further fine tuning, and more timing, would have exceeded his power goals easily i think.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats my problem... well since I'm doing this and have access to that, might as well change that too

now now... we cant look at price and dyno graphs only and make decisions on who the smart one is. We do not know their goals for their motors. One is a budgetary build making 25hp less but abit more torque. One is a stronger interally built motor making 25hp more and abit less torque. We do not know their plans/intentions or if they are going to spray the car later or what type of racing they do Roadrace/autox stuff can be very hard on motors and turning those rpms may not be wise to do on cheap bottom ends. Piece of mind is a good idea when turning 6500 rpms. Cant say for sure

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Mine too. I turned a $900 intake in to a $30,000 exercise.

So now you're saying that if someone was just driving around town spending $4000 more would be stupid.

If someone wanted to autox spending $4000 less would be stupid.

So, if I get you right, it is all about the application, you spend money based on what you 're trying to do. Kinda like snowflake just buying the heads he needs and not three times the money for nothing.

Glad we got to agreement.

snowflake

I did not know that!!! Cool then. I take it the only thing different is the timing cover between the 89/99 blocks??

89fbirdformula

Im just gonna put this out there...

ive sprayed 325 through 2 kits at a bone stock LT1 ws6...

and ive put 20+ bottles of 200 hits through my SBE vortec motor..and a bottle or two at 275shot...worst ive hurt is a set of plugs...burned em down...still the same motor today..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

certainly guys have done it. Guys have boosted stock L98 type bottom ends to 9.3's and over 730whp... they say its all in the tune and most of it is... but long term reliability is in question. Those forged parts are much more forgiving to detonation than cast internals just incase for whatever reason, something happens Just not the norm or else we all would be doing it with great success.

Sorta, its definately application specific But we were only talking about 500 dollars here and he doesnt mind spending some money on heads from his post

Different ways to skin a cat. IF he finds vortecs for 100 and just pops in springs for say 80-100 bucks, he still needs to buy 465 dollar intake to run it all. Almost 700 in vortec swap. IF you bought a set of "better" heads and reused the stock base/siamesed it your only 300 or so dollars more. Not all that bad. Just leaving in room for improvement was all this was about because we all know we want MORE after a little while.

I think the best option here is aluminum L98's reconditioned with springs provided you find them at the right price, and ported/siamesed stock base and a cheap LT4 hotcam. Needs TPI runners of some sort, i'd do SLP to get more rpm range, and it will do the 300whp. Seen that combo here before. Thats got to be the cheapest route.

If you dont keep TPI then skys the limit. Vortec heads + vortec proflo or HSR can be a great combo and damn near make 300whp on even milder cam like LT1 cam or something a tad bigger depending on tune.

Being efi, milder cam is easier to tune

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

he's talking 300 HP. Long way from 700.


Send him the $500. It's "only" $500.

Yep, the primary difference between EFI and CARB is being able to adjust the idle. You can go with a bigger more aggressive cam as a result.

89fbirdformula

i know its not the norm, most people cringe at the thought of spraying more then 100 at a motor around here for some reason...

His best approach would be to find alot of these items used..

i sold my vortec TPI baseplate with injectors/rails/runners/plenum for i think 375.. im sure the baseplate alone could be had for 300ish, if someone wants to look for one.

100 for heads{this is EASY}
180 for springs
150 roughly for a cleanup/checkout by machine shop and having them freshly decked
300~350 for used TPI vortec intake
200 or so for SLP runners used
150 or so for the throttle body{52mm}
100/200 for cam
100 or so for needed gaskets

1000/1100 total for everything out the door basically..maybe less with frugal shopping..a 300rwhp doesnt need 100% new exotic parts.

HSR ill bet will end up costing more..its impossible to find a used vortec HSR...i looked and looked, finally just bought new..

and the odds and ends add up quickly...


100 for heads{this is EASY}
180 for springs
150 roughly for a cleanup/checkout by machine shop and having them freshly decked
365 for new hsr
240 for fuel rail kit
65/100 for fuel line/an fittings/fuel line adapters
50/75 for thermostat neck/various vac fittings/heater pipe fittings
150 or so for the throttle body{52mm}
100/200 for cam
100 or so for needed gaskets

1660 give or take...


Now go the 083 l98 head route...and you end up spending roughly the same with either intake, but with less HP/TQ...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Wasnt refering to OP, but to 89fbird's spraying a stock longblock.
Well if your good with the tuning, EFI will handle just about anything...but its not all that easy and takes time to learn.

Exactly, this would be the smartest way to do it since its only 300whp thru a T56.

Well this has been beat to death 3 times over so moving on....

PV9685

Wow! You guys wrote a book in a day! I don't think I'm going to come back to this thread because it's VERY long and I'm in college (28 and back in school, yay.).... gotta do some homework sometime.

It seems that Vortecs have come up again and again. We all know that they aren't a terrible choice - of course if the price isn't good then why not buy something better.

But before I go I will simply reiterate that the EngineQuest aftermarket Vortecs are a decent part. Not great as they are made in Australia.. and we know how that is.. But there are a lot of magazines and performance buildup books these days that get good engine cores and new vortec castings without problems. Surely they are better than china, and hopefully worse than USA.

But they are cheap, you can choose pre-87 or Vortec-style intake bolt pattern, and center or perimeter bolt valve covers. ...And like I said, I picked up a SET with the screw in studs included for around $260 shipped. I don't know if the guy works at the factory and sells them on eBay out of a white van... but I don't really care after all

there are more out there cheap.

take care guys

firehawk1724

Well I have to say atilla has laid out dyno numbers and and part combos to achieve them pretty specific and clear..that 350 tpi build is absolutely insane my cousin followed it exactly and that build will give whiplash better have a strong neck lol...I'm following the 350 425hp build... check it out on here its under atillas best builds...also gives numbers factoring in chassis auto trans or manual

89fbirdformula

until i see dyno vids, build pics etc etc...i ignore everything atilla talks about.

firehawk1724

Ok well like I stated my cousin followed one of his builds exactly and its quite snappy as he suggested in his explanation... I haven't done one myself yet I have no alliance to atilla I live in michigan so from my experience he is. No liar on the numbers as of yet

89fbirdformula

Put the car on a dyno, and get real numbers, or track numbers...

seat of the pants butt dyno isnt always accurate...

firehawk1724

Ok well like I stated my cousin followed one of his builds exactly and its quite snappy as he suggested in his explanation... I haven't done one myself yet I have no alliance to atilla I live in michigan so from my experience he is. No liar on the numbers as of yet

Doom86

The guy didn't say it made XXXhp he said it would snap your neck back, give whip-lash, ect.

It sounds like it did what Atilla said it would and made incredible torque.

firehawk1724 thanks for the information that build always has impressed me.

89fbirdformula

STOCK tpi will do that if the cars running well, and in good shape, so will an LT1 car...

everyones definition of quick/fast etc etc are different.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Exactly... my car doesnt really neck snap you or anything like that, it just makes your vision blurry...its a different sensation of speed but I'm used to it. So to some a 13 sec car is violent, to me it used to be when I got the car, now 9's arent even fun really

firehawk1724

As far as dyno number I can't attest to that as far as feel is very torqy even more his suped up 50th anniverssary vette..

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

And there you go, head snapping torque has no relationship to 1320 speed.

Too many people build dump truck engines that will snap your head and go nowhere. SOTP is a lousy measurement of anything.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Why are you guys so hung up on dyno numbers? I would think you'd be more concerned about TIMES. Clocks are accurate, dynos are not.