sandiegobird

Hi, I am new to the boards and am hoping someone can help me out here. I just bought myself this car last night. Its 92 Firebird 305 V8, 150k miles, and like brand new! The car is simply amazing, HOWEVER i bought it with a problem.

So, it has a starting issue. Before, even last week when I first test drove it, the starter was making a horrible like spinning/grinding sound, like if you were to start with the car already running. This took a couple of turns of the key, and would fire right up and run perfect. Well, now it is just a no crank no start. Now I am guessing its the starter, but who knows. It makes NO clicking or noises whatsoever, complete silence. The lights all work perfect and the battery is good. The neutral sensor is fine, wont start in park or N.

Does this sound like a starter? I cant wait to get this car going, its like brand new besides this.

HF_monster

I would go ahead and replace the starter get a pack of shims when you do it sounds like the person that put that one in didnt check the tooth engagement when you do this check the flywheel for damage if the teeth are rounded off you will need to replace the flywheel too.

Firebirda7x

Check the flywheel for damage. If it's damaged the starter probably got stuck open. It's just a solenoid after all.

jwande

The armature gear should be softer that the flywheel to prevent the damage you referenced. Pull the headlights on and try to start the car. If they go out, you have a power problem which may not be providing sufficient voltage to the starter. If they just dim a little, take the starter off and have it tested.

Firebirda7x

I was going to say load test the battery and if it fails check your alternator output but he said it grinded a lot so I figured maybe the solenoid was sticking open.

jwande

We're thinking similarly. I was thinking there wasn't enough juice to fully extend the solenoid plunger. Either way, there are several troubleshooting actions you should verify prior to spending the money on a starter. Could also be the bushings that keep the armature extending straight. These are pressed into the nose of the starter housing and back in the starter casing. You would probably see that when you tried to move the armature shaft.

sandiegobird

Thank you for all the insightful responses here. I tried to start it today and fired up njo problem first try. I turned it off and on a good 5 times all went perfect. I drove for about 20 minutes, parked again and tried to start up, and nothing no sounds just nothing (all power there)

I dont know if its worth noting it has been raining non stop here lately

jwande

Next time it doesn't start, have a friend hold down the key while you rap on the bottom of the starter. You may have a "dead spot". If you have a dead spot, when you hit the bottom of the starter case, it should spin immediately. Replace the starter.

Check your negative battery cable. They will generate a layer of rust and not make good contact. The little chemical pads are a good preventive.

sandiegobird

Hey guys, I have an update here and still need help. I brought the car in for a diagnostic and of course when it was at the shop I couldnt get it to not start. The tech decided that my battery bolts were in terrible shape and hindering the connection. He replaced them both and all seemed well. I drove the car everyday for 2 weeks and then today, wont start again! I just dont get it and am getting extremely irritated. I will turn the key and it wont do anything, then ill come back in a while and will start up over and over again. Can someone help me? I am getting so mad because I need the car to get to work and back and dont want to get stranded. Why would this be SOOOO interrmitent like this?

Firebirda7x

Because this is an electrical problem, and those issues take a little while to sort out. There could be multiple factors contributing to your start issue. You need to have some real electrical diagnosis done to it at the time of a no-start. Intermitency is usually a loose or poor connection.

sandiegobird

Thanks. I agree on the electrical idea. The tech at the shop was not able to find anything at all, very annoying!

Firebirda7x

We actually had a similar situation in class on an old Volvo a student owned. He had ti push it into the shop, and when I got it on the lift it wouldn't do anything but tick so I took out the starter, tested it, and it was supposedly fine. Put it back in, and it started up.

Now, that could have been coincidence with an electrical fault elsewhere that started working, or it could have been the solenoid sticking and me removing it freed it up. I can't remember: did you take the starter off and test it yet? Also, it wouldn't hurt to do a battery load test. If your battery is providing the required voltage to turn the starter, then i would start trying to find faults in the circuits. Checking your positive cable going from the battery to the starter for resistance would be a good start.

You did mention it was raining, maybe you have some loose insulation on a wire that has holes and the wire is having increased resistance. Also, heat increases resistance. if you have wires right next to an exhaust manifold or something that gets super hot, that will mess these things up, as well. Although you'd probably melt the wires first.

sandiegobird

the starter i had replaced, it was making a terrible grinding sound when i would start it. I replaced the starter and the grinding ended, but still the no start issue. I was thinking maybe a bad spot on the flywheel? The other day it wouldnt start i got behind the car and started rocking it as hard as i could and then jumped in and it started. but other times the rocking trick wont work.

sandiegobird

This is my 3rd firebird from 1991 and 1992 and they all seem to have their own attitudes, all with unique issues that wont reveal themselves.

Firebirda7x

Wait, is it turning over and not starting or not turning over?

sandiegobird

it does not crank, turn the key and nothing, all lights stay on bright, fuel pump engages.

Firebirda7x

Have you checked the relay for the starter? A bad relay can be inconsistent like this. I thought it would turn over but not start or you would have no power occasionally. If it just is a no start but you have power and fuel, then defiantly check relays. Hopefully in your 91 it doesn't have inline fuses like my 86 does, fuse work is a complete bitch to do on this car. I'm going to be rewiring everything to relays and my fuse box when I put my engine back in haha.

If you have a modern day fuse box in your year I would swap the starter relay for an A/C relay or something, usually the A/C is the same and good as a test relay.

Interesting story about this...at school in the parking lot a chick came over and said her Impala wouldn't start it just died. I went over, noticed the fuel pump wouldn't turn on, and swapped her fuel pump relay with her A/C relay. Bam, car started. Fixed it in 5 seconds and she thought I was God himself.

sandiegobird

Turned out to be a bad wiring job at the starter!

rgarcia63

Bad wiring? Explain, or mechanic didn't explain problem in detail?
Answer would help others. That's why we come here.

sandiegobird

here is exactly what happend:

was found to have 1 loose wire on starter (fixed it). junction block bolt was tight but wires were positioned wrong and not getting good contact. repositioned and retightened bolt. all power verified to junction block, starter, relay, and control circuit.

rgarcia63

By relay you mean the "Starter enabled Relay" which is part of the VATS system?
The reason I ask is because most people don't know where that relay is located.

Firebirda7x

Nice to see you got it resolved.

sandiegobird

well i guess that was a short lived deal! that did NOT fix the problem. I am getting really annoyed with this whole thing. It is so so random. Today wouldnt start, and 30 mins later fired up 25 times in a row. Why would this happen? I am down now to thinking something ignition realted or maybe even the neurtral switch. Would a faulty Neutral switch trip a code? I have no codes coming up.

Firebirda7x

Did you check the relays like I said?

racethesunlive

I had the same issue for about a month until I found out that one of the screws that hold the wiring to my starter had stripped and wasn't holding a tight contact. It wasn't allowing full voltage from the purple ignition wire to the starter. If I shook the wiring it would let it start, but a big bump in the road etc would knock the wire loose again. This will also cause all of your inside lighting etc to work as there is contact, just not enough of it.

long story short, check your wiring to the starter and cables to the battery for full contact/voltage.

rgarcia63

The "Starter Enable Relay" is hidden behind the driver's side kick panel.
It's not compatible with the other relays under the hood.

Firebirda7x

Time to break out the multimeter then with a charge applied unless he buys a new one and tries it.