0pyders

iTrader: (3)

no

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Colder is not always better...especially on a carb set up. Carbed motors like to run around 180-200 degrees since thats where they are most efficient. And even for a fuel injected engine, I really don't like to go below 180 degrees. I have a 185 degree thermostat in mine and honestly if you have a 160 or lower temp thermostat, the engine really never gets up to the proper running temp. An engine really does need to run around a certain temp to be most efficient, and especially in new england, lower than 180 and you have no heat! Which is pretty inconvienent here lol.

DENN_SHAH

iTrader: (1)

a motor will also last longer running 180 to 190 than 160 - 170.
a number of years back one of the oil companies did a good bit of testing and found that using any brand of good quality oil made little difference on engine wear. they found engine operating temp made a big difference.
i believe the wear graph is posted somewhere in this part of the boards.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

I have read this myself. I am still skeptical. Not a non believer, just skeptical. Old school logic said when an engine gets hot there is more expansion and contraction, and with this comes wear. I was taught that marine engines last longer because they have a constant supply of cool water.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

I guess us guys in the fabrication and power adder section need to get on down to the local hokey pokey :-)

freaky

just because it's a law doesn't make it right . when they start putting cats on airplanes an when we stop droppig bombs on everyother country then i'll do my part to save the invirment .untill then **** emmisons testing !

Nysm1

I thought i was surrounded by adults who were talking about how they fixed/modified their 3rd Gen, but now I realize I'm surrounded by people who get butthurt because 1 person decides to tell us about how he passed a Emissions test without his SMOG bullshit. How about you people just look at it and move on! Stop being little kids and raging over it. If it's illegal then that is his problem not yours. Just STFU and move on. For god sakes. Grow up!!!

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Emissions is a valid effort to protect the public and enviroment. Witht hat said trying to implement a technological solution that is valid for the most common denominator of the general public is somewhat of a complication. With that being the case solutions can be half baked to say the least. Also every tom dick and harry believes he has better knowledge about the state of the enviroment and how is vehicle contributes to it than the bozos that designed his vehicle. There are also is a huge misconception about the power robbing qualities of emissions equipment. Point blank anything designed in the last 10 to 8 years you will have trouble improving on powerwise based on tampering with the emissions. Cars are rolling off the line with 680hp and the ability to almos be LEV vehicles.

With that said 2003 and later the solutions available for emmisions were a crap shoot and their implementation even more of a mystery. Also most of that emissions equipment was an ad hoc number of parts hodge podeged onto an engine to address singular parts of the emissions laws, NOX, Hydrocarbons, and particulates. Catalyst for this, airpump for that, and EGR becuase it sounds good.

THe sad part is unless your thirdgen is operating within 10% of its max performance as when it was new chances are the emissions equipment and engine are working together to create a pretty big offender on the emissions front.

If your really worried about the enviroment. Get a correctly sized new aftermarket catalyst. Ensure your EGR system, and PCV system is working correctly. Make sure your fuel system is delivering exactly as intended, and that your ignition is working as intended.

You can make great strides in power, efficiency, and simplicity. If you understand how to develop a control system for your power plant. Using EFI to control lean burn, and eliminate fuel overun can go along ways towards reducing the number of emissions solutions needed and is how it is done today for the OEMs. Also todays catalyst in concert with fueling control strategies to creat the least amount of contaminates possible.

Putting a LSx power plant in your thirdgen while possibly illegal is probaly one of the single best things you can do to clean it up. An LSx running less than ideal probably puts out less emissions than a perfect thirdgen power plant.

The airpump was a crude solution to an over fueling, cruddy catalyst implementation. If you know how to fix these issues than maybe you should be tampering with it. IF your simply just hacking it off then your really not doing anyone a favor. Chances are if that is all you can afford to do at this time you are not trying to create a show quality engine compartment, or if you are you are on the wrong track.

Thats my 2 cents. Well maybe 50

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Well said, and I agree with that, to a certain extent.

Putting an LSx in a thirdgen has been done many times and IS probably the most "energy efficient" and "environmentally friendly" mod to do, so long as you leave it stock with all proper emissions attached to it. Most people cannot afford that so realistically it boils down to your personal car and what you have and can afford.

I personally, have ADDED a catalytic converter (3" high flow stainless modern cat), use the best ignition components and have new filters and fluids, and have spent hours and hours learning and tuning my car so that it runs properly and not too rich or too lean. Probably better than the factory had the car running.

Even though I have no EGR or AIR pump I have to say I have done "my part" when it comes to the environment. I have another car that I drive daily and it's a brand new energy efficient car. I can understand if the car blows out black smoke and you are spewing that crap all over the guy behind you but if the car doesn't overly smell like exhaust then I see no issue with this. As mentioned earlier, there are much worse things out there that pollute the earth than a Camaro without an obsolete probably non-functioning AIR injection system. Just because there is a "law" that says something, doesn't make it morally right. Although that's just an opinion and I am not advocating breaking the law here, but rather my belief.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input guys. I wouldn't mind taking on an LSx swap sometime in the future, relatively affordable, good AND clean power, at least compared to a SBC. But we'll see what happens with that. And Dave, I already explained why I did it.

DAVECS1

iTrader: (2)

Your preaching to the quire man

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

Very nice setup you got there.


EDIT: HOLY CRAP did you yank out your smog pump?! If so, that's a total hack job so forget the compliment.

zee28

I removed the tags from my mattress but do run my smog equipment.borderline rebel

Apeiron

Unlike smog equipment, consumers can remove their mattress tags perfectly legally.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure why there is so much animosity in this thread.

It's one thing to be pro-cleaner burning engines. I think we're all in that camp. But it's another to be a by the rulebook stickler who is against people with clean cars that are against the rules.

Let's use a few examples:

Texas emissions on 3rd gens.... I've seen HC numbers at 16 ppm on a GTA with no AIR pump. My GTA has the AIR pump and my last HC numbers were 74 ppm. Now ignoring equipment, I have the dirtier car. Yet the other GTA despite it's lack of AIR is putting out less dirty exhaust. So who cares how it did it, as long as it can do it? Both are L98 engines.

If you drive a 1974 Camaro in California and you have a catalytic converter on it. You're breaking the law. It's considered "tampering with the emissions" to put a cat on a car that originally didn't come with one. I don't know how any sane judge could fine you for that one.

If you have an adjustable fuel pressure regular, you're breaking the law. Those are for "off-road use only." Even if you have it at stock psi, it's still illegal.

Converting from single exhaust to dual exhaust is illegal. Even though the result is generally cleaner emissions.

I defy any inspector to do a visual on my EGR with the SuperRam in there. I have one. But it's impossible to see under there.

Now OBDII emissions testing, that's a joke as far as I can tell. While old OBDI cars like mine need to go on the rollers with a tailpipe probe, newer Corvettes with monster cams can come in there, eyes watering from raw exhaust, yet they pass the plug in test because they have O2 simms and programmed computers. Now THAT is getting around the spirit of emissions testing. But to complain about somebody who doesn't have an AIR pump while their car can pass a tailpipe probe test is a case of don't sweat the small stuff.

A lawnmower puts out about 6x as much pollution as a car does. I used to think think about this whenever I'd be out mowing my lawn for an hour. Thinking to myself that I could drive 350 miles in the car and pollute less and have a whole lot more fun that I was mowing the lawn.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

THANK YOU. Very well put. And I never understood OBDII testing either, seems easier to tamper with than OBDI testing if you know how to program an ecu, but hey what do I know.

Cadaver Puncher

iTrader: (1)

I'm ex law enforcement. I nor anyone that worked in my dept. NEVER checked emissions stuff. I knew guys welding cat sheilds around straight pipes. Gutted the air pump, so it was just a pulley spinning. Kept the egr in place but used block-off plates.
All done to "trick "anyone looking.
I have a 92 with no cat. Gutted air pump but fully functional egr.
I currently hang with cops, and truth be told...better and more important things to do than check emissions bs.

Frantic lady: my child was abducted over an hour ago. Why are you so late?!?!?
Fustrated Cop : sorry ma'am. My lt. Had me checking emissions bs on some cars.

Get the idea now?

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

I busted a gut reading this thread.

FRMULA88

Ahem...

VEHICLES that are not driven on public highways (aka RACE VEHICLES or show vehicles) Do not have to comply with emission regulations.

That being said there is nothing illegal about removing emission control equipment in Illinois or any other state including CA if you are building a race or show vehicle.

However OP is not going in that direction if this car is a "daily driver".

My "race car" has no emissions system at all, but I take it to a race track it also does not have to take any state emissions test.

The vehicle I take to work every day is tested every 2 years via OBDII scan. I have not altered it any way and there is no need it is a work car..


Somehow I was blessed that I can have both... but it took 30 years to get there, and when I began to make my f-body a race car it no longer became a daily driver.

OP need to mature a bit, that is all.

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Nothing "immature" about removing a smog pump.

armos

I live in the woods. We've had a forest fire in the vicinity most years. The most recent one is still in the air.
In winter/spring everybody burns leaves - it's essential to mitigate the risk of above mentioned forest fires. Bagging is not practical, if that were required we'd have leaves laying everywhere.
I've lived in more urbanized areas before. The kind of places where people don't have much better to do than make up grievances. But the only actual air quality issue that I ever noticed or cared about, is the persistence of all the fire smoke way out here in the country.
I sleep breathing the stuff. It's an unavoidable part of the climate. Nobody gives a rat's *** about the exhaust on some dude's pickup truck. Nobody except some bureaucrats who don't even live in the areas they presume to regulate.
Personally my allegiance to Washington DC is not measurably above zero.

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

I thought this thread died a long time ago, but ironically it was revived just in time for another emissions test so I guess I'll throw some fuel on the fire, lol! Took my car in with the exact same set up under the hood as last time and voila... she passed again. By the skin of her teeth but she passed!

The numbers are as follows:

(CT Limit, My car)

Hydrocarbons: 60 ppm, 60 ppm! *phew*
Carbon Monoxide: 0.32%, 0.01%
NOx: 700 ppm, 329 ppm

Didn't occur to me to try this sooner but I may try a different tune soon with the smog pump deleted from it, just to see how the car behaves with that, and we'll see how it'll impact the last emissions test in 2 years lol.

punkmaster98

iTrader: (5)

musclecar70sfan

iTrader: (1)

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

lmaoo

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

this is all i can think about when i hear people crying over removing Smog equipment

TwinTurboROC

Emissions equipmemt are overated. The government has such runaway standards with their tests limits thats thats why even new cars cant pass (why do you think they moved to then new OBD 2 test instead of a old school sniffer or dyno test. Not a single new car could pass their tests on a dyno.

Ive actually seen cars pass with decent numbers with no smog equipment.

Btw, a little food for thought: It pollutes the environmemt more to make a new car than it is to keep a old one running (without its emissions eqp running properly).

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Agreed.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

wow with no smog pump and cat.

rusty vango

it bothers me that some guys do this to their cars.if you don't understand it ,then leave it alone till you do. and get this,,, I have a son. I would LIKE my kid to have clean air to breathe. if you care about piddly little things like,,, well ,,,breathing. then make your car CORRECT and maybe even COMPLETE

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

sigh...

Caveman305

iTrader: (8)

Got news for ya, do you know when the EPA started shoving smog down Americans throats?

Now, go outside.........take a deep breath........I don't think your son has anything to worry about, neither does my daughter.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

If you want a car that gives a hoot and does not pollute, please sell your 1986 Iroc and go buy a Tesla or Prius. by the way your Camaro just killed 20 polar bears and 30 migrating geese.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

A Prius is no better...
If you want to save the environment for others, suicide is the only answer.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...M01/310189979#
http://www.leftlanenews.com/study-pr...vironment.html

Stevolwevol

iTrader: (1)

Removing the smog pump won't help the environment anyway. It just dilutes the exhaust.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

Air is not injected for dilution.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Thanks I needed a good laugh. Now if tree huggers could actually have an open mind to read those articles.

1982Z28Modified

I know this is an old posting, but my two cents... GM stopped putting smog pumps on late 80's to mid 90's trucks and SUV. I can't speak about other cars. They did keep them on our cars. Why? Not needed. GM realized they could meet emissions without the AIR pump. Ford always has an AIR pump. Can't speak about Dodge. What I don't know is why keep them on Camaro's and FB's?

Sofa is right but irrelevant. Screw the peoples republic of Cal and all other emission test states. I lived in Cal for 5 years and when my 69 Charger failed... the inspector "Juiced" the test so I passed. Was that a Federal or State crime Sofa?

MY RIDE... 82 Z28 305... Holley 4175 on a ZZ4 intake... Accel distributor... Headers 2.5" to a 3" pipe to the muffler... Serpentine conversion... No AIR, No cat, No EGR... Dual PCV and EVAP. Car runs better that ever... No black or blue smoke... I wish I could get it emissions checked to see what it does... better than stock. No computer either.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I know what you mean man. This is an old post, but I had a TPI swapped G20 van that would have been technically illegal, but it was much cleaner than the carb 305 that was in it.

JonM

I don't think your going to get a reply as he is over at the serta mattress forum campaigning against people removing the mattress tags...

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

driving:

Marc 85Z28

iTrader: (3)

If you're going to bump an old thread, at least make it worthwhile. Your post is both incorrect and irrelevant. GM (along with EVERY other manufacturer) has used AIR pumps to this day in both their car AND truck/SUV platforms.