indirocz28

i just happened to look out the window and next to my 86 iroc there is a nice pretty white LS1 camaro z28 6 spd..

i dunno but i felt like this was some sort of taunt... anyways, the guy said its all stock and he'se never raced it...

My question is - how bad will i get smoked if i race him, or should i wait until i get the 100 shot of nitrous hooked up?

all my car's info is listed in the sig. and my side bar..

and everything is running great besides i need a new master cyl for my brakes... stock torque converter...

Blu91Z28

With your mods, I wouldn't be worried about stock LS1's. You won't need to waste your nitrous either.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Are those duration values at .050? What is the lift of that cam? If your combo is what think it is you will get worked hard. Your combo should be near 280 to 300 hp.

Not trying to be mean but trying to paint a picture.

LS1 exhaust manifolds flow better than summit/flowtech headers
Heads flow more than your vortecs
Stock cam is bigger
T56 has better gearing advantage than your 700R4.
Induction is light years better than any modified TPI (short of a miniram and or stealth ram)

My old 300hp T56 LT1 car would get WAXED at any speed by my buds stock '02 LS1 car. It sucked.

I can see you beating him if you race from a dig and you are a better driver. From a roll he will own you.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

You'll stay even for a few feet, then he's going to rape you.

indirocz28

Here is the link from Crower for my Cam
http://www.crower.com/misc/cam_spec/...00240&x=37&y=7

and when my motor was carbed w/ a 6.50 carb and heddman long tubes the motor put out 378 fwhp..
and i ran it in my 4x4 blazer w/ 3.73 gears and a TH350 w/ 2300 stall for 7months.. then the trans went out twice and i happened to have bought the camaro w/ a smokey engine.. so i went to work..

Would i have a better chance if i had a 3000 stall?


Maybe my buddies 78 camaro w/ LT1, 4l60E stock converter and underdrive pulleys and complete tuned computer w/ cold air intake and 4.10's would have a better chance?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

True. Look at an LS1 crosseyed and it'll gain 10 rwhp.

My old car held even with a bone stock LS1 SS M6 from a slow roll to about 70, definetly quick cars.

indirocz28

hmmm.. so if i sprayed i should have a good chance?

stroker_SS

This may not be a relevent post but i'll say it anyways. My friend was given the offer to drive an LS1 transam, I decided he was too crazy and would probably get me killed if i rode with so, he pulls out of the driveway down the rode and kind of gauges it. The next thing i know he's blasting back down the rode at a very high rate of speed, pulls the e-brake 180's it and burns through 1st,2nd and 3rd leaving a smoke trail about 150 feet long that was visible in the dark. All i have to say is i thought that ls1 cars were overrated to that day, and ever since i've always wanted a car that can do that. Hopefully once mine is finished it may just. Sorry i took so long to say nothing.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

That cam is pretty mild and it seems like 378hp would be a stretch. Do you have a graph by chance? It would be neat to see that powerband. None the less if the motor really makes 378hp than you should be able to hang with and beat some stock LS1 cars.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i can see your combo going low 13's, which is stock Ls1 terroritory. i think it will be close for alittle while. not sure if your gonna out trap the LS1 but u should be close to atleast 105-106mph now.

the converter will help alot form a dig and some roll speeds

indirocz28

The cam's powerband is supposed to be 2000-5200 rpm's..

No i dont have the graph and this is going to sound really bad but the guy that had the motor built had it engine dynoed and he said that it was putting out 380 hp and about 400lbft of torque..

When i had the motor in the 4x4 it felt pretty powerful i mean that truck weighed 5,000lbs with me in it and the motor never even breathed hard.. It had 35" tall tires on it w/ 3.73 gears and it would bark them from a stand still..
But now that i've got it in the car it feels like its not got as much power.. Im going to get it over to the college here soon and do a few dyno pulls...

Im hoping for atleast 275 at the wheels w/o spray.. if i cant squeeze that out of this motor im going to be pissed.

and if nothing else goes wrong, im going to the track this weekend so i'll have some time slips.. im hoping for at least mid 8's.. my 280hp fwd talon ran 9's, and i figure this car should spank that..( this is an 1/8th mile track btw)

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Your build seems about right for 280 rwhp, that's what I would have guessed. Unfortunatly you're dragged down by TPI induction and a small cam. The heads are great heads though.

You need a carb swap and something like the XE274HR in there

indirocz28

Well, ive got all high flow stuff and 24# injectors.. If i get a bigger throttle body will that help?

also- if i change to a 3.42 or 3.73 geared rear end from my 3.23?

and if i run nitrous should i get him???

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Don't bother getting a bigger TB, save your money for an entire new induction system (carb, HSR, etc.).

You can change your rear gears, it'll give you an MPH or so in the quarter. For a TPI car I'd recommend 3.42s. You can go 3.73s if you're planning on a LOT of 1/4 runs, going from a roll will suck with them. If you're switching induction systems, go for 3.73s or 4.10s.

Yeah if you spray you've got him.

Lo-tec

Owned without the nitrous, OK with it.

BTW, my car is stock too and I've never raced it!!

PHAT89TA

if u could hit low 13's between 105-108mph in the 1/4 mile u have a good chance of beating him. play it safe and get a 100 shot.

iroc-zman17

in my opinion, if your really putting out 378hp, traction will be a very big problem from a dig. if you can get a slow role so you wont spin, you'll leave a stock ls1, dont get me wrong ls1s are extremely fast but a well tuned 378hp thirdgen should pull on a stock ls1.

Maverick_IX

A HSR is a TPI system that flows 1,000cfm, which is more than vortec heads would ever require. A modified TPI with a larger TB could easily flow enough for vortech heads. If the induction system supplies enough air and the right amount of gas, then it will put out the same amount of power of any other system, but won't run as efficiently.

Changing to a carb would be a perfect example. Sure, you can get 350+ HP numbers from a carb setup but it will most likely run rich at low rpms.

Even TBI can be made to flow enough to get these numbers. I've run TBI with Vortec heads and an aggressive cam, yielding just as much HP as any HSR, just not a reliable.

If he wants to make that much horsepower, then a larger TB and good tuning could it. Also, most people don't want to spend $2,000+ for a HSR compatible with vortec heads just to get that extra blip of throttle response.

indirocz28

Maverick- If you could please clear up your grammar and punctuation..your post would be MUCH easier for me to understand... I know we cant all be grammar teachers or a+ students but it would help alot..
Thanks

stu

I understood him just fine.

Maverick_IX

And for your information...I AM an A+ student.


P.S. I keep all my good grades on the refrigerator.

freestylzz

indirocz28

LOL!

Well- ok- then call me retarted but could you please explain it to me b/c i am still new to all this stuff and did not fully get the jist of what you were saying..
Thanks
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Yes- i see you changed it.. Now i understand!- Thanks again!!! I assume my TPI intake flows quite well, i mean why would they call it High Flow if it wasnt?

indirocz28

I talked to the guy w/ the LS1.. and he said his car is stock, but he has hedders, CAI and a 150 shot on the way...

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

They say high flow in comparison to the stock set-up. Even though you have aftermakret TPI components the same basic limiting pricipals are present.

The tearm “tuned” came from the fact that GM tailored the TPI motor to resonate in a specific manor with a given runner design/size for a certain RPM band. TPI set-ups utilized two intake wave/harmonic charges during the downward stroke of the piston. After the first intake charge there was a second. Air that bounced off the intake was re-diverted and pulled back into the cylinder as a second charge during the downward stroke of the piston. Because the first charge was still present the second charge had a greater effective mass which had a positive effect on the VE at low RPM’s. GM specifically tailored the TPI to behave in this manor for a narrow RPM band and hence label it as "tuned". GM didn’t design the LT1 and LS1 intakes to resonate over a small specific RPM band like they did with the TPI. Instead they implemented the short runners to have the engines VE increase as engine speed increased and used head/cam design to retain any loss in low end power. GM focused on Helmholtz resonator more for TPI motors and focused on other features to widen the power bands and resonance on the Gen II and III set-ups. So adding higher flowing TPI parts just adjusts the resonance (and peak values) a bit but still doesn't change what limits it (and or the power curve trends).

TPI was the best truck motor that was never used in a truck.

EDIT: Race the LS1 before he has headers. Long tube headers will add up to 26rwhp.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

the 58mm throttle body will flow 1000cfm or so..but not the system itself

the hsr runners only support 275ish cfm stock.. can be ported to 300 or more. TPI runners are like 200 stock and big tubes are closer to 240-250cfm

indirocz28

Whow- thats a nice healthy chunk of information.. And i dont think my car is fast enough to get him unless i get higher stall and maybe swap up to like 3.42 gears?...

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

3.42 gears aren't much different than 3.23's. If I had 3.23's I would go to 3.73's. You want to match your stall with the cam and powerband you have. For that cam a 2500 rpm stall would work well. Your motor still makes the majority of its powerband below 5k.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

HSR is not a TPI system. They're very different. The largest difference between the HSR and the TPI is the length of the runners. HSR is a straight shot into the heads, probably 5 or 6 inches long. TPI has 17 inch long runners. What this type of "Tuned Port Injection" accomplishes is massive down low torque, but the HP is several lacking and the motor won't pull past 4200 rpm.

Won't run rich if it's tuned right.

TBI can make reliable power, it just takes an extreme amount of tuning.

A larger TB will NOT help him.

People spend $800 for an HSR to get more torque and horsepower over the ENTIRE curve, and much much more peak HP at a much higher RPM than TPI could ever dream of. An HSR is everything a TPI isn't - A GOOD INDUCTION SYSTEM!
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whoops shifty beat me to it!

indirocz28

Do they make an HSR to fit Vortech heads and go into a 3rd gen TPI car? or would it be more trouble than its worth?
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how bout a 10 inch 2600 stall?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

As of now there is no HSR for vortec heads. However, i believe it is set to come out soon (I could be wrong though). TPIS makes a miniram (best TPI induction replacement) for vortec heads but it is $$$$$.

Should be fine

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

http://www.holley.com/91703211.asp
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HSR is a direct swap, you can reuse the computer, injectors and even TB although I'd highly recommend a tune. I believe you need new fuel rails however.

Sidewayz28

i say you just race him and see what happends...anything happends on the street. **** i got smacked around by a POS 300zx because i was going silly sideways til 3rd gear

Blu91Z28

Just run the LS1 and see how you do. I'm still running my factory TPI base and runners, heads, cam, chip, converter and 3.23's. You might want to invest in some Drag Radials.

indirocz28

I dont spin much, I spin just slightly and then she hooks up..
my transmission isnt broken in yet. the trans shop said that after the clutches break in my trans will shift HARD b/c its set for the firmest shifts possible ( as per the transgo kit)

Blu91Z28

If you go with a decent converter, something like Precision Industries Vigilante, traction will definitely become a problem. DR's will be worth every penny.

Lo-tec

Skip the converter, drag radials and nitrous!!!!!

indirocz28

lol!

I think im going to mostly use a 100 shot wet system with NOS EFI noszle..

Now- What are your views on how to use your nitrous during an 1/8th mile run using an automatic transmission, Nitrous kit not having a RPM window switch or WOT switch. Just the activation relay & switch and the push button.

A guy told me to put the car in 3 and just launch off the line and hold the button down the whole way through.. What are other opinions?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Ha, I had a hunch that it was out. It has been awhile since people have talked about it.

Lo-tec

Go about 10' out the hole and hit it!! Use an arming switch, WOT switch, and a pushbutton or on/off switch for activation.

Kids, don't try this at home, and if you do be sure and use only DOT approved drag radials or equivalent!

indirocz28

OO OO - How much, how much?? Anyone wanna buy an almost NEW High flow TPI system?? huh huh??? do ya do ya??

djr_678

An M6 LS1 car with LT and a 150 shot, if it hooks and is in proper running order will run low 12's high 11's at sea level just to give you and idea

PHAT89TA

u know what type of headers is he getting? What year is his ls1?

Sidewayz28

the 01-02s dynoed a little more due to the LS6 intakes and the better flowing exhaust manifolds. but the 98-00 had a larger cam then the 01-02s. the intake adds about 10+hp over the LS1. if he doesnt get long tubes on it then hes not going to be gaining anywhere near the amount he could with LT's.
phat89 i would love to see your dyno numbers after full exhaust, pulley and tune
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auto (LS1) cars are a little more beastly on the 1/4 especially with nitrous. theyll run consistent 11s

Maverick_IX

The part you referenced costs $2,810.95(Summit Racing). While you did mention using the stock computer and TB, a manifold-only HSR is NOT yet available for vortec heads, while the kit is. Also, HSR's require a LT style TB or an aftermarket one.

Just thought this info might help before you go buying out the stores. I, personally, have nothing against HSR's, in fact, I have considered one for my car w/ vortec heads.

I just think they are a lot of people that are quick to say "that's crap, buy something else" and not too many that say "be innovative" or "make something work the way you want it to".

indirocz28

This i do aggree with. When i was doin my car there were so many people saying "Thats never going to work!" and "your never going to get that thing back together!"- well those people can all kiss my *** because IN YOUR FACE BIATCHES!
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He told me what kind of hedders he is getting but i cant remember, he said he is getting them used for like $400 b/c new they are like $1000 or something and are stainless steel.... If you started listing Top of line ones i mite be able to pick them out.. I coulda swar he said UGP but that dont seem rite..

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Yes, but that kit includes an entire aftermarket computer system, injectors, TB, basically EVERYTHING to swap fuel injection into a non-injected car - I was merely using it to show that they make it for Vortecs. Go look up the plenum, manifold and fuel rails seperately. It's about $800 iirc. And yes it is available for new style vortecs, a friend of mine has it on his car.

PHAT89TA

well theres couple of stainless steel headers for our cars.
Dynatechs ($1400 including catted y-pipe)
qtp ( $756 (considered to be the best ls1 headers)
kooks ( $1100 very good headers )
stainless steel works ($1100 not a popular headers but heard good things from them)

z28evans

That's how nitrous gets the bad reputation of blowing things up

Don't push the button until you are above ~3000 rpm, and like someone else said, hope that you have some good tires

The best way to beat a ls1/m6 with a third gen is to swap this intake (and related parts) :

indirocz28

QTP- those are what he is getting!
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Ok- thanks..
and swapping the intake would probably be an option except ive got $800 or so in mine already.. You guys make me wish i woulda done more research before i bought my Edelbrock system.. Lol!

Nitrous, here i come! Kit should be in by the middle of next week...

Also- Should i get an Electric Water pump and under drive alternater and crank pulleys?? IF i get an electric water pump, do they make a serp. belt short enough to go from the ALT strait 2 the crank? and do they still support a V belt power steering slot?