Blu91Z28

You wouldn't by any chance have a link to a stock 5.0 dyno graph? I did a quick search but everything was modded. One had that BBK SSI manifold and he was peaking at 5K.

nick418

25th i respect you with your knowledge man. you know lot of info bout these cars. But im just saying. Seeing a 14.8 @ best with a L98 is very lame. Either the car is running bad with no good tune or the driver isnt all good. Back in the day these guys got these Z28s and Trans Am running low low 14s with L98s stock. With the good gearing and G92 packages. I love fox bodies as well. There awesome drag cars and meant to go straight and have good light weight with a good rear like ppl said. Both awesome cars and would love to have either or. I just ended up with the 3rd gen. Urban, i just wanted to say the L98 was fast for its day. The Corvettes were hot. Especially the B2Ks twin turbos..

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah man, I never meant to say anything against the 5.0 or L98s! They were the **** back then!! Hell a clean L98 IROC is the **** nowadays!

Fbodys were always fast in their day. Back in the mid 90s NOTHING could touch LT1 cars, then in the late 90s up till now LS1 cars are ruling the streets. It's the natural progression of time.

25thmustang

Believe me Urban it isnt anything you said. When Im "fighting" with you its one thing, but some of the other posters have NO idea what they are talking about.

Dont have a bone stocker, but my dads car with a catback, and filter made 212/276 on dynojet...

Nick, you have to realize my track is 1000' or so on an average day. Add the heat and were talking 2500' elevation. My car was going 14.4s that night and my best in that trim was a 14.1 at the same crap track. Also I lately have only been to Ford racing events. There arent any thirdgens and even on the test and tune nights there are very few thirdgens. Hell even on the Fbody, Vette and Mustang drag day there were maybe 2 thirdgens. They dont seem popular...

I just state that as anyone can say what they have or havent seen especially if they dont go to the track. A guy who has been 3 times probably hasent seen an LS1 in the 12s, a fox in the 13s, a Z06 in the 11s etc... The whole, I havent seen it deal doesnt mean it doesnt happen and thats what Im getting at. I KNOW the L98s run hard, but I havent SEEN it.

Blu91Z28

No, I'm more interested in the overall HP and TQ curve. Considering the long runner design of the 5.0 intake manifold, I'd imagine it's very similar to a TPI.

25thmustang

Oh, well I dont know where his dyno sheet from that day is (this was back in 2000 or so) and doubt I would ever find it. Id show mine, but it wouldnt prove much other than mine makes power to 5400 RPM.

Ill see what I can dig up, but most stockers will make power to 4800-4900 and the torque curve isnt LS1 flat, but isnt really spikey either!

freestylzz

My '87 5.0 tpi could do that with the old peanut cam it. Now speaking of an l98, you should open your eyes a little more.

All these performance mags claim these stock LS1's can go into the very low 13's, yet what makes you think high 12's couldn't be clicked off?

Yet these same mags that used to claim stock 5.0 did mid to high 14's, you claim to see them into the 13's. Something doesn't add up here?

Do you have this statement tattoed on your forehead? Tell us EXACTLY what kind of gears, tires and vague bolt on's your talking about. Like you keep saying, facts are facts, so give them to us instead of spewing your verbal diarreha.

"I'm Bad"? Didn't Michael Jackson sing that song?

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

25th's mods have been stated multiple times on this site.. off the top of my head I believe he has stock heads with bigger valves (1.84/1.54?), a cobra intake, bigger TB, bigger MAF, CAI, underdrive pulleys, shorty headers, H-pipe, catback, aftermarket clutch (short throw shifter?) and 3.73 gears. That's just what I remember, maybe he can clarify.

25thmustang

First off you cant read...

I stated I have only SEEN one run a 14.8... read where I said they couldnt run 13s bone stock. I have never SEEN a 12 second LS1 yet believe they could do it. You guys come on here spouting how you have never SEEN this stuff from Mustangs and thats why they cant do it... I am saying I have never seen stuff from Fbodies either, but I actually KNOW they can do it. So next time you read what I type have someone else there to hold your hand and tell you what it actually says!

Second what magic bolt ons... pulleys, midpipe, catback, 3.73s, and ET Streets. Throw on a short belt and bang you drive it hard, it will go 12s. My friends with MAF, headers and a few suspension peices added to those mods went 12.77 @ 105. Untouched long block, no weight taken out, and a show car to boot!

How about you tell us some of your experiences with Fbodies running some timeslips... I have a little history with Mustangs and what they run yet you have nothing but pissing and moaning about what I typed... So until you do that, dont let the door hit you on the way out!
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Thats about right, stock motor, stock cam, larger valves in the stock heads, intake, TB, MAF, CAI, pulleys, long tubes, midpipe, catback, 3.73s, shifter, DS. But then again my car doesnt just run 12s on slicks, it has been 12s on radials and runs mid 12s all day long on a tire. To go 12.9 on slicks is a lot easier than what I did... I did it to have a fun street car and get good gas mileage.

freestylzz

Do you also wear that Michael Jackson "Beat It" magic sparkle glove when you're bangin' the gears?!

90CamaroTBI

Hmm I have seen videos of a stock notch pulling a 14 flat before, whats so hard to believe about that? A notch is very light compared to a GT or something.

25thmustang

Your funny, and its even funnier you dont even have any thirdgen buddies backing you up. Keep the jokes coming, jokes dont prove anything...

CHEVY_EATER

I have all the Mean Mr. Mustang articles...actually here at work..I can scan them in and post them sometime if you want.... I also have all the comparo tests where they run it stock against the L98's and even the GNX..the only car that beat it was the GNX which ran a 13.9 vs. the best of the LX..which was a 14.1 something.....with 2.73 gears I might add....

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

the fact is if you put this exact thread on a mustang website they would all be infavor of the mustang when on this site everybody favors 5.7. The fact is a 87 mustang notch had 225hp 300tq weight is around 3100 and had a stick and 2.73's or 3.08's dont remember. A 91 formula 350 has 245hp 345tq weight at 3500 could be lower my v6 bird weighed 3300 the formy has a auto and 3.27's. when its comes to quarter mile drag racing a fox notch will beat the formy. But i kno the tpi would have a higher top speed, better braking, kick *** handling and looks imo compared to the mustang. Around were i live 5.0's own the track. if you really look at the specs and talk to people who owned these cars when they were new pretty much every year during 82-92 the mustang whipped the thirdgens *** at the strip. then you have 93-02 camaros and firebirds whip the stangs in every catagory. So id have to side with 25th on this argument and im in no way a ford guy just not one of those guys who thinks all chevy's are faster then ford's i kno when to admit to the truth of the facts.

superGMman

I already said earlier that they are really two completely different types of cars.

Formula's weren't designed with affordable speed in mind. Mustangs weren't designed for handling.



common knowledge.

F&Ybodlover

actually the specs are 240hp 340tq and closer to 3300(like I said my reg. says 3273) and has 3.23 gears, and from my experience with this car, and my GTA I stll stand by this statement.
BTW, I just put an "off road Y-pipe" in front of my catback today where I had a small leak, sounds really healthy, and the car feels like it gained atleast 20hp especially mid and up top, am deleting the air pump pulley next, and I can't wait to have another run in with a new Stang, auto or stick!

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

man your hott **** you can beat all the mustangs and your right about the gears but your wrong about the hp and tq https://www.thirdgen.org/1991-pontiac-firebird

F&Ybodlover

nope, those ratings are for Camaro's(even says so somewhere on there so I'm right

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

it clearly states that its the rating for 1991 pontiac t/a's and formy's only difference in camaro and firebirds l98's are the intakes its either 230hp 330tq with single cat or 245hp 345tq with dual cat.

F&Ybodlover

I don't care what that says, it's wrong, I know it used to say somewhere that "ratings are for Camaro only" TPI Firebirds were rated 5hp and 5tq less from 88-92, because of the different more restrictive air intake. Check somewhere else on the net for Firebird hp ratings.Trust me, I've only known this for about 20 years now Where are my backups

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

The difference is the restrictive intake on the Pontiacs causing a loss of 5 hp/5 tq.

F&Ybodlover

CHEVY_EATER

When I had my dead stock 88 LX hatch 5spd 2.73 car I raced a late 80's 350 TPI IROC and beat it from a 20-30mph roll..not a ton of cars or anything of course..but still enough to clearly say I pulled it quite well. I never ran that car at the track..it was a low option car..all stock though....from plug wires to the air silencer and paper filter even. I also ran dead even with my friends 94 GT that ran 14.1@99 at the track. That 88 ran REALLY hard. My other 88 was a LX notch...with gears, exhaust, pulleys it ran a 14.44@98.9 when auto still. After a swap to a 5spd it ran a 13.7@103...last night actually in hot weather. I know with more timing and cooler weather it will run mid 13's with ease.

I am not knocking the 350TPI at all..they are pretty quick cars and have alot of low end power...but I can't see one taking out a 05-06 GT without some mods...serious ones. Most all the ones I see are running mid 13's stock...high 13's with an auto...with 100+mph traps everytime.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

like i said camaros intakes were different and better but i was going from what the site said the fact is theres no way in hell at the track your pretty much stuck l98 could beat a 05-06 gt unless the guy is a real ****head. like i said before the fact is the notch lx 5.0 5spd would beat your formula 350 stock to stock. its funny how your going around hoping you would run into a stang only stock stang your gonna beat is a 96-97 4.6

F&Ybodlover

You were going from the site and the info is wrong, doesn't that mean you were wrong didn't say I raced him at the track, if you read my post I said from about a 10mph roll up to about 80 when he backed off. I guarantee I'll take an auto out now, all the way. You can't be serious if you think my Formy would only beat a stock 96-97 stang Already beat a 5spd 99+ Stang, pretty easy, before my Y-pipe and that 05+auto. I know what a low 14 sec car feels like,I've had enough of them stock, my GTA ran 14.3, this car definetly felt faster stock, and feels alot faster now with my mods, so I'm guesstimating a high-mid 13 with traction which I don't have.

91greenbird

iTrader: (4)

not trying to argue with you or anything i thought your car was all stock i didnt know it was modded but yeah i seen that u raced the mustang on the street i was just making a point that at the track you would get beaten by a 05-06 were on the street its mostly whos got the most *****.

F&Ybodlover

Isn't this the street racing board? I'd like to take this car to speedworld now, but with 95degree temps high humidity, and no traction, makes no sense. I'd like to run into a stock 5spd on the street right now, and see what happens, I already know I can beat an auto. Got a few more easy tricks like chip, airfoil, air pump delete and und.crank pully, then I'm goin to work on gettin this beast hooked.

Blu91Z28

That's not surprising, you're comparing one of the quicker Fox bodies to one of the slower L98's.

CHEVY_EATER

I'm thinking it was an 89..it had the newer style rims at least..not the 86 style 16"

F&Ybodlover

a manual LX Fox will beat a L98 thirdgen, even a 91-92 Formy or 1LE from a roll, that I don't argue, but it's a drivers race in the quarter, all 3 can hit 14.0, and there are to many variables, production, etc. to have a clear cut winner. My GTA and my Formy are strong cars stock, but there are some dogs out there.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

what exactly have you done to your formula? looks like all you have is a catback and free mods according to your sig? With traction I'd say a high 13 is definetly possible.

F&Ybodlover

mods are in my sig. I have an open element K&N attached to the stock air duct, and like I said, just had the cats eliminated with 2 pipes straight to the catback(sounds really good with the Aerochamber muffler) Car has 96k on it. I was told from the previous owner it was completely stock, and well cared for, original transmission, and I find no reason to doubt her.

Blu91Z28

'89 was still MAF and not one of the quicker Speed Density cars

rik89gta

I raced an 06 Mustang GT last week with my 89 Formula 350. The guy basically handed me my ****! We launched pretty even through most of the intersection before he blew my doors of. I just let off the gas midway through second gear cuz it wasnt even a race anymore. My only mods are a Flowmaster catback, no cat, and a custom y pipe. Oh yeah...... A few years back I raced a stock 88 5.0 Stang with a 5 speed with my bone stock 89 350 GTA. We raced from a roll and he had me by about 2 or 3 car lengths up to 90mph. I have somewhat learned to respect Mustangs the hard way!

gray89vert

iTrader: (3)

nice kill

25thmustang

Actually that 88 he mentioned would get beat then again by a notch with 3.08s... It is one of the quicker ones, but there are even quicker out there.

We just got back from the track with the 06. Im not sure what the elevation was today, but if I had to guess Id say 2500 feet or so (85-90 and humid). Into a head wind (knocked about 1-2 mph off my dads car) with a passenger the car ran

13.96 @ 99.8 with a 2.05 60'.

Cant wait for some good weather, no passenger, and maybe a better 60'. I would say 13.7s shouldnt be too hard! Oh yeah as of leaving the track car has 4246 miles!

Blu91Z28

Yeah, a stripper LX notch 5spd w/ 3.08's is the king of the hill. High 13's shouldn't be a problem with one of those. I can't remember the last time I saw one on the street though. I was just pointing out that it was on the quicker side, while the older L98's are on the slower side for us.

Congrats on the times with the '06! I was out in comparable weather conditions a couple weeks back and got my new sig numbers. My MPH was down 2 from last year without the torque converter but that was in good November air. I'm really looking forward to the Fall.

25thmustang

Me too... That care HATES the heat. The more we hot lapped it the worse it got. It ran its best passes on the second pass after cooling down each time.

Also to note my brother ran it to a 14.11 @ 98 and he has never been to a drag strip before. Was doing pretty good for a first timer out there (what I consider an average driver). I think he has a 13 in it in cooler weather (average) and the car has a mid 13 with a great driver!
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Also congrats on the new times...

My dad tried but didnt have it in the conditions. Ran 12.2s all day long at 110. Cant wait for everyone to get some cold air!

F&Ybodlover

Was the 06 you raced a stick or auto? I have a few more mods than you, my car might be a tad lighter, and It's speed density. I can beleive one leaving you like that if it was a 5spd, but if it was an auto, something must be wrong with your car(had it tuned recently?) Like I said about my GTA totally stock with 80k mi on it back in 01, I would race a friends 93 5sp GT with a Flowmaster and air silencer removed, beat him everytime, from a stop, from a roll, out on the highway. My GTA was probably a faster one being that it ran 14.3@96, and his GT might have been a slower one. It just goes to show there are to many variables with these cars.

rwdtech

honestly its because they are cheap. i love fox bodies, but in all reality they arent that visually appealing to the general population. you can ask lots of people and they will say "oh those 80's mustangs are so ugly"...which i dont understand because i think they look sweet. Since they arent so attrative, you can get a notchback fox body for pretty cheap, even with decent miles. Also the aftermarket has totally embraced the 5.0 EFI because it was used for so long and on so many different vehicles. TPI is on F bodies and vettes only... Right now there seems to be more stuff for LT1/LS1 than the new 4.6L OHC stuff...maybe because the LT/LS is the best fuel injection system by GM so far. Or maybe the 4.6L stuff is already perfect....i dont know

foxes make perfect drag cars, the notches weigh around 3000 lbs. but you have to admit you wont be picking up too many chicks in a fox or outhandling a 3rd gen, and eventually the 5.0 has its limits. I still love fox bodies though, somtimes i get so mad at this stupid 305 i want to get a notchback fox and make a drag car out of it but theres just something about the camaro...i dunno

25thmustang

You do realize with a stock blockhe 5.0 is capable of tons of power. Safely 500 rwhp no problem, going on the edge, 600-700... If your street car is to that point, go buy a dart block. Therefore a dart blocked 302, will have more potential than 99.9% of people will actually need. Potential is only a factor when talking about 8 second cars here, as a 5.0 will run that (seen street driven ones doing so). And how many 8 second cars do you know of?

Looks are subjective. personally the perfect done up fox vs the perfect done up thirdgen in my eyes is a joke. The thirdgen to me will never look as good. To you, the other way. I dont personally care what average non car people think, and if YOU have to use a car to get women, then feel free... I personally have yet to use my car to pick up a girl (unless you count the last GF I had and the only reason was I was at the track, she didnt know what I drove when we met).

Handeling... with the right after market stuff a fox will handle extremely well. Sure it wouldnt be top choice, but look how many drag racers or people who hit the strip a lot have thirdgens. They arent the perfect choice at all and a lot of people use them.

In summary, where the 5.0 block loses potential (dart or other similar block) is so far out of the reach of most people, its not even worth mentioning or comparing. Looks are 100% subjective and its time to use other methods if your picking up ladies with your car (if you want to go there get a mini truck or import). And when it comes to handeling and drag racing one is better than the other yes, but people choose the one they like better. If we all bought the best car for each specific thing we wanted to do, there would be a lot less owners of each!

CrazyBear

personally i think this how entire thing is just subjective bull crap people are throwing at each other. if you like your damn car then shut your mouth about other people's cars because they feel the same way with thiers. show them up at the track, strip, whatever but don't judge every damn car the same way. Every car has potential yes mustangs can be faster than camaros and vice-versa it's all in how they have suited thier cars.

rwdtech

ok first of all i dont use the camaro (or any car for that matter) to pick up chicks i was just using that as an example. i hate guys that try to use cars to pick up chicks...they are such game killers!

im not taking sides here at all, i like how the fox looks too.

but about the 302, anything it is capable of a 350 is even more capable of. There is no replacement for displacement. I hope you are excluding the hyperutectic piston engines from 93 btw, thats the only reason why i would never buy a 93 mustang.

most of the "done up" foxes i see have body kits and weird hoods, i would however like to see these done up foxes because i need new desktop wallpaper. got a link to some pics?

you say all a fox needs to out-handle a 3rd gen is the right aftermarket stuff. well all an L98 needs to be quicker than a 5.0 is the right aftermarket stuff. im not taking sides though, i have a respect for anything that is RWD and not a truck...whether its Japanese or American. i dont get the whole ford rules, chevy sucks and vise versa

but yea i probably shouldnt have brought up picking up chicks

25thmustang

At the point a 350 has more potential than a 5.0 based motor (I am talking aftermarket block here, not a stocker, and even seen 500+ rwhp 93 motors) wee talkng HUGE power numbers that your not going to see from anyone but engine builders. Like I said, I have seen 306s, running in the 8s, being street legal. Thats decent potential if you ask me. Im not saying a 302 can make more power, it cant, displacement wins, but at the point the 350 will make more power your in the 1000hp level. To make a 400 whp car, a 302 and a 350 will both do it without a sweat!

I realize the L98 will run the track times like the 5.0 will handle, thats what I was getting at. And then it turns into which car you like better... Fact is both can do either thing close to equally well.

rwdtech

agreed, they are both sweet cars with much potential

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

idk about the potential question 25th, browsing mustang forums often, the highest hp numbers I'm seeing out of cars that are used street/strip are around 350 rwhp. The best I saw was like 420 rwhp N/A and he said it was very unfriendly on the street. 350 rwhp out of a 350 is a walk on the beach, 420 can be a little more unfriendly but it's still streetable.

With a larger displacement engine you can have the same hp numbers but much more streetability.

And let's talk maximum possible displacement via stroker kits.. I think 302s stroke out to 347s right? 350s will readily stroke to a 383, but with custom crankshafts can acheive 396s and 400+ cubic inch motors, the biggest I've seen was a 421 CID with a custom crank, rods and pistons, maximum overbore and clearanced to within an inch of it's life.

The reason foxes run with these cars is the weight advantage. But drop some pounds from these beasties and that's pretty even.

At this point we talk power potential, and that's where I see 5.0s falling short. Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, more displacement means power is made more easily. Like I've said before, foxes are a good platform, but they really should have had the 351 in them stock, rather than the tiny 302, because when it comes to power production you can't beat more cubes.

And once again 25th, I'm talking the average people, not your group of friends with super fast nearly stock mustangs running 12s.

Both platforms have their problems.. foxes have bad handling/brakes and a small motor.. L98s had their weight, glass rearends and automatic trannys. Pick your poison I suppose, but time has shown again and again that both are very capable platforms once their problems are overcome, and stock are very close contenders down the 1320.

90CamaroTBI

I dunno, ive seen people on Stangnet have upwards of 500hp on the stock 302 block, but thats about all. Those people must not post much because I know if I had that much power, I would never even come close to a computer lol.

CrazyBear

in the end i would the think the camaro's faster with how you can fit a much bigger engine into one. both are good car's. If i was a drag racer on a budget i'd take the mustang but if i had a large budget the camaro (or better a chevelle) would be my choice. both are good cars though so i wouldn't disrespect mustangs or camaros and im guessing in the end the mustang won considering they are still in production.

lilbowilson

iTrader: (2)

Exactly thats why I'm building a 400 sbc you can make 500hp without even reving pass 6000 rpm.

25th you can say your buddies have fully streetable 8 sec cars but in fact they are really not that street friendly. I bet thats not the car they jump into when they need to go to the store right quick for a gallon of milk. Just because it has a sticker doesn't really mean its streetlegal.

25thmustang

Actually one of them he drives it two to three times a week. Cars quiet as can be and docile when hes not into it. I have only heard rumors of 8s though, but from reliable sources.

Another was into the magazines a lot. The car ran 8.30s on slicks and 8.90 average on ET Streets in a true street class (30 mile cruise, 3 track pass average, and NO touching the car between rounds).

A streetable 350 rwhp 5.0 isnt too hard. A streetable 400 rwhp is much harder, and over that is tough, but what you have to remember is it doesnt take 400 rwhp to run deeps 11s with a fox. It takes a thirdgen to retain all the ameneties that kind of power. A 300 whp fox could be an 11 second car on a tire, I doubt a 300 whp thirdgen with no weight out will run 11s. The motor might have a little less, but the car itself is right there with the thirdgen...

As far as a Dart 302, my friend Randy has a street driven 352 stroker. Car should be in the low 11s high 10s but hes having trouble dialing it in!