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telling someone to "throw" a set of sb2 heads on an otherwise stock TPI motor is ignorance. im sure the stock tpi intake will bolt right up, and you probabably wont have any problems with the stock pistons while running the big honkin cam. heck, even standard sbc header flanges should bolt right up to them, right?
aside from that, someone making 450rwhp with a set of sb2 heads is embarrassing. i can do that with an LT1 with ported stock castings and stock intake manifold.
I was thinking that his statements were alot more embellishing on our intelligence level for all to see than mine.... glad to see others agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly89gta
Right, GM built the car to compete is autocross competitions? I never said they aren't good handling cars, I never said that from the factory they weren't decent handlers...when you have cars that are built specifically for autocross in mind my state is completely valid.
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Was there any real reason to bump a thread that was over a year old?
They were good handling cars from the factory. At least the nicer ones, such as the WS6s and IROCs. The slalom and skidpad numbers from the high end 3rd gens are as good as or better than the Corvettes from that time and are competitive even with todays sports cars, just the power numbers and 1/4 times are very lack-luster.
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The slalom and skidpad numbers from the high end 3rd gens are as good as or better than the Corvettes from that time and are competitive even with todays sports cars, just the power numbers and 1/4 times are very lack-luster.
skidpad numbers for any 3rdgen (outside the 92' Firehawk) were not as good, and certainly not better than the Corvette's numbers. comparing a WS6 (or IROC) equipped 3rdgen and a Z51 Corvette, the Vette wins everytime
I have a buddy making 402 HP at the wheels in a 92 Z28 and he ran another buddy in a 98 Z28 making 398 hp. Similar gearing, 6spd's and the drivers were well matched. At the top of 2nd gear the TPI car had half a car length, when he shift to 3rd the 98, LS1 car blew by him. Of course everyone will scream variables, but no matter how many times then race, same out come. Long live the LS series engine.
I dyno right at about 400hp at the wheels... swapped 6-speed with 5:12 gears w/spool, and absolutely ZERO suspension, and by the way it's a T-top car. I've owned the car for two weeks.
A friend's '01 SS dyno'd at 421 at wheels... 6-speed with 4:10 gears and little suspension. He's owned this car for two years.
The lame 3rd Gen took the win. My extremely low gearing is more of my enemy because of lack of traction, but yet it allows me to pull a little harder in 3-6th gear. And no, I don't get 'horrible' gas mileage and it's not a 'race' only car... with a little more fine tuning, it'll get nearly the same gas mileage as my '94 Ford Explorer
to bring this thread back from the dead.. ^anything happends on the street... ive upgraded alot since ive been on this forum.
hows this for a shitty sounding ls1? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYgeBUU7GwY
anyways. i recently put on stock, untouched LS6 heads, FAST 90mm intake, 90mm Throttle body, true duals and on the same Mustang Dyno put down 431rwhp/394ftlbs of torque. 36rwhp/28rwhp gain. Not bad considering im on a safe tune, just in case i need to get another 150hp out of a Nitrous Outlet plate ... dont even get me started on the suspension!
Anyways, i personally love the Lsx motors. The numbers people are getting these days through the larger ci LSX motors are insane, and the fact is, their still streetable. Dont get me wrong, i love SBC motors. My first car had a nice little 350 in it, but you cant beat technology!
Last edited by Sidewayz28; 03-18-2008 at 04:46 AM.
I love you guys....but nope. My 383 has 1000$ intake to oil pan, i kill LS1s. With cams i still stay ahead of them. So...no 3k to beat one. Hell, i have 250 in the whole car...and i still am doing it with a 2.73 gear. I did all the work myself to keep cost down so that helps. Machine work and all, 1000$.
Dont get so cocky man. Remember where you are on the pecking order. You probably could hang with some mildly modded 4th gens. But dont be suprised when you run into the wrong one, they'll change your attitude pretty quick.
I dyno right at about 400hp at the wheels... swapped 6-speed with 5:12 gears w/spool, and absolutely ZERO suspension, and by the way it's a T-top car. I've owned the car for two weeks.
A friend's '01 SS dyno'd at 421 at wheels... 6-speed with 4:10 gears and little suspension. He's owned this car for two years.
The lame 3rd Gen took the win. My extremely low gearing is more of my enemy because of lack of traction, but yet it allows me to pull a little harder in 3-6th gear. And no, I don't get 'horrible' gas mileage and it's not a 'race' only car... with a little more fine tuning, it'll get nearly the same gas mileage as my '94 Ford Explorer
Car came with it . The Moser 12-bolt came out of a 1/8 racer so he had the low gearing. It's not bad on the street, just a lot of shifting... with the T-56 I'm in 6th gear going 45mph and pull fairly easily with throttle. I'm running on brand new Nitto 555's and rolling I hook surprisingly well... from stop, even at half throttle it's spin-city.
Haha, I don't hotrod the car enough to really figure that one out yet. But I do know that at 100mph, the gearing is about maxed out, I'm pulling 3700rpms in 6th, so yeah, 120ish would be about my max
I don't think I'll run this thing past 120 . At 100, my Alum driveshaft is vibrating, the engine is about topped out, yada yada. If I can get some of the T-56 parts I want, I'll have the 4:56 gears in someday soon.
If you are running ~2500 at 70, then the engine is running about 4000 @ 100 according to this calculator. I can see what you mean about being tapped out. You'll only have about 1500 RPM to go.
I say put in a higher gear rear end and a better driveshaft and have fun.
as for what they are an ls1 is going to be superior to the gen 1 sbc. i have put 450 to 600 on a stock bottom end relentlesly in an ls1 and a ls2. built right they can handle it for a very long time. and i have never seen a tune port keep up with any of my ls1 builds ever. even when set to the same hp. ever. i will keep building them and i believe that i have found an ls2 with less than 20000 on the ticker that was hydra locked. minor repairs,cam,ls3 heads and intake and ill be set. i believe that the bottom ends will last way longer than agen1 sbc as well.
__________________ YOU MUST ALWAYS PUSH THE LIMITS-IF YOU NEVER FAIL YOU WILL NEVER SUCCEED--NO FEAR!
as for what they are an ls1 is going to be superior to the gen 1 sbc. i have put 450 to 600 on a stock bottom end relentlesly in an ls1 and a ls2. built right they can handle it for a very long time. and i have never seen a tune port keep up with any of my ls1 builds ever. even when set to the same hp. ever. i will keep building them and i believe that i have found an ls2 with less than 20000 on the ticker that was hydra locked. minor repairs,cam,ls3 heads and intake and ill be set. i believe that the bottom ends will last way longer than agen1 sbc as well.
Very old thread but I'll throw my two cents in. My last car was an 89 L98 with FULL bolt ons. Dynoed 245rwh. My current car is a 98 LS1 6 speed. Dynoed 340rwh with exhaust, lid, and filter and ran 12.8@110. I think my dyno numbers are a bit high seeing as they are off a dyno jet, but none the less im making somewhere around 380 hp with a near stock f body.
LS engines are no joke. My LS1 382 made 650ish rwhp on a 150shot and you could daily-drive it like an Accord. My cam-only LS6 makes 421rwhp and you can barely tell it isn't stock. I love the old-school stuff, but it's tough to beat the unrelenting march of technology...
.... wow, I didn't even see this response, but okay;
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
telling someone to "throw" a set of sb2 heads on an otherwise stock TPI motor is ignorance....
Who is telling anyone to "throw" a set of SB2.2 heads on an otherwise stock TPI engine lol? The whole point of even mentioning those heads was the fact that the TPI motors were heavily restricted from the factory, and comparing one with an LS1 is simply not feasible, but that isn't to say that the TPI couldn't be made to compete. I'll tell you what is ignorant though, and that is comparing a TPI engine that simply cannot breath past 4500-RPM from the factory, not to mention one that is being controlled by an 8-bit processor ECM, up against an LS1, that, not only flourishes at high RPM's from the factory, but is also being controlled by a more refined, and more linear, 16-bit processor....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
.... im sure the stock tpi intake will bolt right up, and you probabably wont have any problems with the stock pistons while running the big honkin cam. heck, even standard sbc header flanges should bolt right up to them, right?
Again, your getting way too ahead of yourself here. Yes, any credible fabricator can make a port injection base to line up w/the SB2.2 heads, as there is absolutely no reason to wait for the aftermarket to make one. Hell, you can even convert a carbed intake using an elbow, and welding in injector bungs for port injection to make it work...;
.... wouldn't be too hard;
"Heck", I've seen people implement TPI inspired intakes on big cubed Buick engines, running quality heads, with amazing results. Lack of runners, yes, but it can be done, and that is the whole entire point; injector bungs, fuel rails, elbow w/TB (or a box designed to use the stock TB), whatever it takes. The fact remains that if you install a set of SB2.2 heads onto any L98, albeit, one with the right lower intake manifold to make it adapt, it will inevitably open up the playing field, and of course your going to toss the stock L98 camshaft. It would defeat the purpose to run such a small lift cam with the SB2.2's lol....;
TPI inspired Buick 455....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGGLER
.... aside from that, someone making 450rwhp with a set of sb2 heads is embarrassing. i can do that with an LT1 with ported stock castings and stock intake manifold.
alls i see from the LSx guys are dyno numbers being thrown around. if you want to bench race dyno sheets, thats fine i guess. but higher dyno numbers dont always mean faster down the 1/4
my LT4 puts down 344rwhp. thats nearly identical to 89Iroc350TPIs LS1 fbody, at 340rwhp. according to the dyno numbers, we should be equal at the track correct?
not even close. his car ran a 12.9 at 110mph, while mine ran 12.2 at 116mph. but on paper, the LS1 should be just as fast. you figure it out
all this goes a long way in saying dyno numbers arent everything. a timed acceleration test (a dragstrip run) is much more informative of a cars performance
alls i see from the LSx guys are dyno numbers being thrown around. if you want to bench race dyno sheets, thats fine i guess. but higher dyno numbers dont always mean faster down the 1/4
my LT4 puts down 344rwhp. thats nearly identical to 89Iroc350TPIs LS1 fbody, at 340rwhp. according to the dyno numbers, we should be equal at the track correct?
not even close. his car ran a 12.9 at 110mph, while mine ran 12.2 at 116mph. but on paper, the LS1 should be just as fast. you figure it out
all this goes a long way in saying dyno numbers arent everything. a timed acceleration test (a dragstrip run) is much more informative of a cars performance
Well that run was on stock tires with the stock gearing.
alls i see from the LSx guys are dyno numbers being thrown around. if you want to bench race dyno sheets, thats fine i guess. but higher dyno numbers dont always mean faster down the 1/4
my LT4 puts down 344rwhp. thats nearly identical to 89Iroc350TPIs LS1 fbody, at 340rwhp. according to the dyno numbers, we should be equal at the track correct?
not even close. his car ran a 12.9 at 110mph, while mine ran 12.2 at 116mph. but on paper, the LS1 should be just as fast. you figure it out
all this goes a long way in saying dyno numbers arent everything. a timed acceleration test (a dragstrip run) is much more informative of a cars performance
There are obviously quite a few variables that go into a cars to develop track times, so to dump on LSx cars because the guys here have posted HP numbers is absurd. That would be like me stating that bone-stock LS6 Z06s have gone 11.7 with roughly the same HP as your car, so LTx engines must be dogs. See how crazy that sounds? I'm certainly not bagging on Gen1 and Gen2 SBCs as I own/have owned a bunch of them. However, if you don't think LSxs can cut good numbers, you are in denial. Take a trip over to LS1tech.com and check out some of the numbers those bench-racing, dyno-sheet folks run.
I respect all forms of performance and wouldn't be here if I didn't love my TPI cars. If you want to let your bravado alienate you from other enthusiasts, be my guest. However, your argument that LS1s are dyno-queens is easily repudiated...
hey, hey, hey, no need to attack me personally. nothing i said was insulting and certainly wasnt "bravado" haha. i simply stated that theres more to performance than a dyno #, and thats what LSx owners typically use when asked about their cars. im not saying ALL LS1s are dyno queens, but that seems to be the norm when LSx owners compare performance. im not sure why when it costs considerably less to go to the track than it does a dyno run, why the dyno sheet is the weapon of choice. not to mention, running down the 1/4 mile is a hell of a lot more fun that sitting on a dyno
stock C5 Z06s dyno a bit higher than my car, in the 360rwhp range (im well aware of Ranger, he ran some of those record runs at my home track). he also got a much better 60ft than me and was powershiftiing during those runs as well. he also wasnt running on a 98k mile clutch or street tires like i was. excuses? maybe. but if i had those same "advantages" when i ran my 12.2 perhaps i wouldve gotten something similar or even better than his run (which BTW, was 11.8)
im already a member on www.ls1tech.com, and www.corvetteforum.com so im more than familiar with LS1 performance. my brother also has a 99' SS with a 402 in it. im no stranger to the platform, believe me. alls im saying is that track times are more valid when comparing a vehicles performance than dyno #s as its more than a hp/tq figure that accelerates your car (gearing, weight, etc). but just it seems the majority of LS1 owners flash their dyno sheets alot more than their timeslips
also, 89, my run was on a dynojet too
Last edited by tpivette89; 10-12-2009 at 06:18 PM.
No attack on you and I'm sorry if I came across as defensive. However, it sure seemed like you were trying to bag LSx owners as dyno-racers and that is patently untrue. The LS engines have done a lot to re-invigorate the car-crafting hobby and wrest the attention away from the import-scene. Plus, they are a great design out of the box and respond very well to to even the most basic modifications.
I wasn't using the C5Z as anything more than an illustration of how to "broad-brush" an engine platform. The actual semantics and "what if?"s of the comparison weren't my point. Also, the fact that Ranger was out flogging his C5Z (and now C6Z) while running great numbers further disproves the notion that LS guys are one-trick-pony dyno-racers.
Track-times are a great performance metric, but as we have stated, there are plenty of variables to go along with a given number. Dyno-sheets have the same limitations...they only tell part of the story.
I guess I just took umbrage with the stereotyping of LSx owners as non-racers. I was a regular at Atco from the late 80's through the 90's (and Great Lakes Dragaway/The Grove in 2003) and, although my current career has kept me from getting to the track as often as I would like, I have raced just about everything imaginable. I've seen plenty of LS representation at the tracks running great numbers, so I was somewhat bewildered by your view-point.
The irony of a Corvette owner calling LSx owners non-racers is astounding
The only thing worse is a LSx Corvette owner.
j/k guys.
From a personal standpoint I'm more impressed with seeing time slips than a dyno sheet. It's nice to see how much power your car makes but power isn't everything. I know a lot of guys that base everything how whatever they put down on the dyno yet they get smoked by cars making less power and they wonder why. It's really just an ego stroker a lot of times.
__________________ ***89 GTA*** L98, P1-SC procharger, 24# SVO's, wideband O2, Edelbrock TES headers and catback, SFC's, Wonderbar and some other goodies...
The irony of a Corvette owner calling LSx owners non-racers is astounding
The only thing worse is a LSx Corvette owner.
j/k guys.
From a personal standpoint I'm more impressed with seeing time slips than a dyno sheet. It's nice to see how much power your car makes but power isn't everything. I know a lot of guys that base everything how whatever they put down on the dyno yet they get smoked by cars making less power and they wonder why. It's really just an ego stroker a lot of times.
thankfully i dont fall into that stereotype. im one of the few Vette owners that isnt afraid to make a few passes at the dragstrip. never have been. whats the point of all that engineering they put into these things if you dont put it to use?
hey fly89, werent you a Vette owner at one point... and a LSx one at that
... dont even get me started on the suspension! 
