darbleinad

howdy guys,

i am hoping to get my car etested tomorrow cause i have the day off (if not tomorrow, then tuesday) and i really dont think my car has a hope in hell of passing the the test, even as a "hot rod", but i am gonna try to squeak it by anyway. i going to dump some methyl hydrate into the tank, but i am not sure how much to add. the tank is 60L and 4L jugs of methyl hydrate are readily available to me. should i throw 1 in? 2? 1/2 a jug? anybody have any idea on how much i should add? any suggestions are welcome. someone also told me to put the methyl hydrate in a spray bottle and spray it into the tail pipes just before the test? any thoughts on this? i plan on doing this as well, as it cant hurt.


thanks for the help guys.

chubb rock

Your post intrigued me so I did some research on the net.......

"It appears that MTBE or methyl tertiary butyl ether can be added to gasoline up to 2.7% without any increase in NOx. There are two opposing effects taking place with the addition of oxygenates: enleanment, which tends to raise NOx, and lower flame temperatures, which tend to reduce NOx. With MTBE levels above 2.7%, the lower flame temperature effect seems to prevail.

While the use of MTBE has been found to be very attractive from an air pollution point of view, recent evidence in the US has shown that leaks and spills are a serious threat to drinking water. This has led to a movement toward a ban on its use in gasoline in the future."

http://www.adb.org/vehicle-emissions/General/gas-3c.asp

Kevin Vandevenne

iTrader: (3)

Hey Brad, when i etested my old 86 TA, I ran it with 1/8 of gas, plus a 4Lcan of naptha (Coleman Camping Fuel) gas. It failed 3 tests before the naptha, and passed with flying colours after. I'm probably going to resort to something similar for my new car when it comes time for the etest. Not sure about methyl hydrate, but I can get access to it as well, so if it works well for your test, let me know and I will keep it in mind for mine.

Good luck with the test

darbleinad

thanks for the reply fellas. chubb rock...thanks for the link. very informative.

Kevin, perhaps i should run some napatha. it is readily available as well. i hope the shop is open tomorrow. they are normally open saturdays, but it is the long weekend so they may have'r shut down.

hows the new camaro coming along kevin?

Eric2ndGen

MTBE is already in gasoline. In fact, the US is in the process of banning it outright (California did years ago) and Canada under the Kyoto accord will also be banning it. The oil companies have given the Canadian government an 8-year "schedule" to have it removed.

It is not a benefit to emissions, quite the contrary, MTBE is a pollutant that was originally put in gasoline when unleaded was first created- sort of like a "lead substitute".

Methyl Hydrate is not MTBE, just as a note- although it may contain some. It is straight methyl alcohol that will "dilute" the gas and throw off the pollutant levels the gas analyzers are looking for/at. Methyl Hydrate is a sort of methyl/water mix and is used as a weak solvent for cleaning.

However, I don't know what the chemical or ignition effect of naptha would be- but if it works- hey, whatever.

Daz

iTrader: (1)

I followed KevinV's advice and my car and truck passed with flying colors

I only changed the oil and PCV valve for the test for my truck. less thanb a 1/4 tank of gas and 4L of Coleman camping fluid

Daz

mike81monte

Has anyone ever used denatured alcohol, i've heard that is good to use for e-test but having trouble finding where they sell it.

darbleinad

thanks for the reply, Eric,

yeah i realize that MTBE is not methyl hydrate. however, the methyl hydrate, from what i understand will lower the emissions, specificially CO and HCs. however, this napatha idea sounds great too. so it sounds like 4L of napatha with an 1/8 of a tank of gas or so seems like a good combination. any ideas on how much methyl hyrdrate to use if i try that approach? 4L with a half tank? i think i would need more than 1/8 of gas with the alcohol.

Acceld Z

Isopropyl:hail:

Oh, and Denatured Alcohol=Isopropyl="dry gas".

johnyIROC

word

chubb rock

In one of the articles I read on a website....some guy mentioned that he poured a bottle of rubbing alcohol in his gas tank...you know, the stuff you can buy at Shoppers Drugmart. He says he passed his e-test using that stuff.

Acceld Z

Oops,.........Isopropyl=Denatured alcohol="dry gas"="rubbing alcohol"

Get the 99% proof stuff. My toxic waste spewing GTA passed with awesome numbers last summer.

darbleinad

hmm.....thanks for the tip Paul. i think i will go with the isopropyl and then the coleman fuel if i fail. i will be getting her tested tuesday. i just called shoppers drug mart and they have it. how much should dump in like a gallon of the stuff?

Acceld Z

Use as much as you'll need to get to the test and through the test. Get about 6L and mix it with about 10L of 87 octane gas. As soon as the test is over go and fill the tank to dilute the isopropyl. Make sure you get the 99% stuff and not the 70%.

chubb rock

Darbleinad...did you pass your E-test?

darbleinad

thanks for the help, Paul.


but alas, i failed the first etest. nearly passed the 40 km/h test. failed the idle miserablely. HCs were my only problem. everything else was real low.

darbleinad

basically, the i am just going through the motions to get my $200 conditional pass.

RegaPlanet

conditional passes are $450 now

darbleinad

not where i live they are not. thankfully

Eric2ndGen

What exactly were your readings? You can lower the HC readings by leaning the mixture (using screws) and advancing the timing. Both of these, however will typically also raise NOX readings- so how close were you on these?

darbleinad

i was really, really low on NOx and CO (lots of room there) and i failed the HC on the 40 kph test by 9 ppm. at idle, the HC limit was 300 ppm, my car was spewing out 3625 ppm. the cam in the motor is fairly healthy and the duration/overlap is likely whats killing me at idle. i didnt touch the timing before i went in. i think the base timing is at about 10-12 degrees btdc.

(BR)G-Machine

Those numbers are definately hot rod numbers. Why dont you try knocking up the idle speed and lean out the idle circuit? Do they have a maximum idles speed?

If you have an 87 or 87+ block you could also throw your old cam in for the e-test.

Btw did you dump some stuff in anyway?

(BR)G-Machine

Nm I thought about it and if you LDA is so close that it is failing you than it is gonna start detonating before it stops spewing fuel out the exhaust valve at that piston speed. You are not passing with that cam I guess

darbleinad

on the sheet it said the idle test was done at 1125 rpm. so i am assuming it was tested in park. i was not paying attention at this point in time as to which gear the car was in, but it must have been in park, as the car idles around 1000-1100 in park and about 700-750 in gear.

freestylzz

MTBE works for the test.

Eric2ndGen

Well- no, but where exactly does one go to buy raw MTBE? I don't believe an oil refinery is going to sell it to people out the side door.

For anyone who didn't catch it- MTBE is not methyl hydrate or rubbing alcohol.

darbleinad

well gentlemen, i got my conditional pass. to test the isopropyL alcohol thing for my own info, i put 4L of the 99% stuff into nearly a full tank. on the re-test i passed everything but the HC at idle and these were still down 500 ppm. i have to get back to work now, but i will explain the details and such later.

freestylzz

You know fellas here's a funny thing. Last year I had to renew my plates in April and to do so I needed a passing drive clean test. In fact I didn't plate / renew the car as I put it in storage. This year I went to plate the car and the Ministry allowed me to get a 1 year renewal for my plate with no drive clean test needed. That's really strange. I suppose I can store my car every other year when it is due for a drive clean test, and then the following year I can plate it without a drive clean test, hence never needing a drive clean test ( HA HA HAAAA!).





P.S My vehicle has no chance in hell passing the drive clean.

chubb rock

You must have had a newbie at your local Misitry of Transportation processing your renewal form, OR, you were't scheduled for an e-test this year.

http://www.driveclean.com/

They have a section on the site where you can determine when your next e-test is scheduled. I typed in my information, and as expected, I have to get the car tested next year. There is also a blurb which states:

Why will my car need an emissions test?

- Your vehicle licence plates will be up for renewal on November 16, 2004. Without this emissions test, you won't get a validation sticker to put on your licence plate.
- Your vehicle is located within the Drive Clean program area.
- Your vehicle will be more than three but less than 20 model years old.

If you were scheduled for an e-test, and you got your renewal because of a screw up........consider yourself lucky You now have a whole year to get that car e-ready.

6speedIROC

iTrader: (3)

Hey Guys, the max idle speed is waay up around 1300-1400 rpm.
My LT1 actually failed the hydrocarbon idle test at something like 375ppm, allowed 300?
I ended up passing it by holding the throttle open to speed up the idle (while the test in progress said it was out of the speed range) and just slowly dropping it down to get it in the range..it was about 1350 rpm.
The reading was taken instantly and the test passed!! (on the 3rd try)

darbleinad

for my retest, i threw 4L of 99% isopropyl alcohol in what was basically a full tank of gas. i was curious to see if it would make alot of difference in the readings. i knew wasnt going to pass the retest and that i was just going throught thr motions for the conditional pass, i didnt put more in, cause it would just have been a waste of money. anyway, i was able to pass everything but the HC at idle, but my reading there did still drop by 500 ppm. so if you have a vehicle that is border line, i would diffently recommend the isoproyl alcohol. acceld Z speaks the truth (not that i ever doubted him), when he says the isopropyl works.

anyway, i am enjoying driving my car legally again. and no more etest bull **** for me.

2 dope

curious, would adding alcohol to your gas on a regular basis affect anything. I mean putting in 4 litres and then some gas would make it seem like theres more in the tank wouldnt it? Also, my 85 will be tested soon, its got headers, accel ignition, 350 cam on it so will it be in a different category for the test? After this one i dont think i will need another one anymore thankgoodness

Eric2ndGen

Alcohol is extremely acidic. FI systems have been better designed to deal with the ethanol content present in many of todays fuels than carbs are- but that being said- the less alcohol you can get in your gas the longer the fuel system will last. Alcohol's acidity partially eats through parts, and will also speed corrosion by more easily carrying moisture than other fuels. Even steel fuel lines are not immune but most of this is not all that noticeably with a maximum content of 10% ethanol in pump gas blends.

Ever seen an alcohol race setup? These guys will drain all the fuel after every run if car will sit for more than a few minutes otherwise components start to deteriorate (fast).

Do it for an e-test and keep away from it the rest of the time.

darbleinad

excellent points, Eric. and it costs like 18 bucks a gallon for the 99% stuff

2 dope

while we are on the topic of e-tests, anyone ever use that stuff you can get at Canadian Tire, Its called Guaranteed to pass? I have a bottle and will use it before my e-test. Will a out of tune car, that has brand new exhaust, front to back still fail? My car is in need of a timing or carb adjustment coz my plugs are always getting carboned up. Running to rich i think. I dont know if Rochester carbs are adjustable, i think thats what kind it is.....

darbleinad

does it have a cat? if it does you will have a chance, but it is very tough to get a car that is running rich to pass. running rich means unburnt fuel going out the exhaust and this is pure hydrocarbons, so it likely wont pass.

Ratchet

darbleinad

what are the durations and lobe centers on your cam. Just curious about the cam we are putting in

darbleinad

i dont know the exact numbers, but the overlap killed me on the hydrocarbon levels at idle. the cam only puts out 13-14 inches of vacuum at idle.

2 dope

ya i have a brand new cat, and the rst of the exhaust is brand new as well. I will try to get my carb adjsuted

chubb rock

I'm going for my E-test on Monday. The last time I had the car tested, these were the readings:

ASM252 Test

HCppm 78/limit 74/reading
CO% .43/limit .02/reading
NOppm 878/limit 195/reading

RPM at 1506, Dillution at 12.82

Curb Idle Test

HCppm 200/limit 38/reading
CO% 1.00/limit .01/reading

RPM at 711, Dillution at 11.91

The HC reading is border line. The car is all tuned up with new sparks, wires, O2 sensor, PCV, and oil/filter.

I'm going to test the car on Monday. If I don't pass i'll post my results. If I have to do a retest, I'll try some alcohol and let you know what my results are.

6speedIROC

iTrader: (3)

That Guaranteed To Pass Stuff DOES NOTHING!! Don't waste your money on it.
I tried it in both my car and truck after failures with no results change.
You only get your money back if you can prove that all the original emissions equipment was working correctly with all the OE engine settings.

chubb rock

Hate to steal a post, but I told you I'd let you know about my Etest results.

ASM252 Test

HCppm 69/limit 68/reading
CO% .38/limit .01/reading
NOppm 777/limit 159/reading

RPM at 1530, Dillution at 13.01

Curb Idle Test

HCppm 200/limit 56/reading
CO% 1.00/limit .00/reading

RPM at 719, Dillution at 12.70

The HC reading is border line again! I think its the fact that the pipe is 3". I had read somewhere that the wider the pipe, the harder it is for complete combustion to occur. Kinda makes sense. I have a new exhaust front to back (w/cat), so if I fail my next test, i'll just add another cat.

Eric2ndGen

Chubb- what's the deal with those e-test results- the max. allowable limits are getting lower, not higher, even though the car is getting older? WTF is this all about- the government trying to make e-tests more difficult to pass or is this a different vehicle than the first test results you posted?

RegaPlanet

2Dope, Quadrajets are adjustable and you better give her a quick tuneup before you go if you want to pass. If you can't afford the parts then at least clean up the carb and cap/rotor contacts and maybe even plugs if you're experienced with that. Gotta be careful tho, dont want to rub off any coating on the plugs. I'd also suggest an oil change the week of your test or the day of even. AND make sure your motor is plenty hot when you get there to test. Sit in the lot with it running till your test is about to go even.

chubb rock

Eric.....its the same car, with the Etest 1-year apart. The limits look like they are getting tighter. I'm all in favor of Etests, but this is just another goverment scam to get more cars in the shop, and to increase new car sales!

Just as a foot note. I only really had to get my Cavalier tested before my b-day, since my roc has tags till '04. I just wanted to test her out and see if things were good.

2 dope

thanx for the advice, i was planning on doing all of that except the carb adjustment coz i dont know how. Im sure its in my hanes manual though i hope

RegaPlanet

2dope, do a search on the net for adjusting one. I'm sure there's many many many links. The Qjet is a very popular choice for racers on a budget or those who must run stock parts.

2 dope

so the stock carb on my car is a q-jet? I think its a rochester im pretty sure. ...

RegaPlanet

well Im not sure that it's an actual Q-jet but Rochester makes the Q-jet and it came on alot of vehicles back in the day so Id assuem its some variant???

theRam

The Colmann idea works!! I also followed Kevin V advice and the car passed with flying colours. !

Thanks for sharing this with us Kevin. I faild ALL five ASM/curb idle tests badly before trying this. (I'm talking twice and triple the limits!). I was so devistated as there was no way i could've afforded any cat repairs at this point, and there are no buses where i work.

All what i did was change my oil/filter to premium oil, change my air filter (which was pretty filthy), and retest with one gallon of this on 1/8th of a tank. Leave the car ideling while waiting for the test. I should mention though that the stuff does raise the engine's temperature so don't forget ot dilue after.

Thanks again Kevin and good luck to all.