80smetalfan

hey,
i have an out of town friend i know who has a '89 IROC which he claims puts out 500 HP at the wheels (and says it was dyno tested! always seems to have misplaced his charts from the dyno though ) . my chevy friends and i have debated whether this is possible and said no, but i figured somebody here has a similar setup or exact setup to verify somewhat. I have no idea what his 1/4 is, as that would clear a lot of it up. As far as engine mods go, from talking to him I've gathered that he's got the 350 block from the original L89, with AFR heads, and the stock TPI unit. I can tell from having seen the TPI that he's got aftermarket runners, and I'm assuming if this was possible, he'd have a pretty well ported plenum. I have no idea how much has been done with the heads (port/polish, etc.). He runs a 100 shot of n20, and has an n20 ready cam and crank. However, he says 500 without the nitrous. the only other significant mod is a Transgo shift kit (shift kit, vette servo, etc).
Basically, I really have trouble seeing the TPI breathing well enough to feed this setup well enough for 500 rwhp. i could see 500 with a lot of aftermarket FI and intake setups, but i struggle to see that much at the wheels with the more or less stock TPI.
Not a life or death matter, but i joke around with this guy a lot about it, and it would be some affirmation i guess . sorry if this is too vague to really guess with.

omcrider

Not even close without Nitrous maybe more around 300HP.

80smetalfan

that's what i figured. i thought he might be able to get 350 at MOST out of that with good head work and a good cam, and a VERY modded TPI.

406-IROC

I strongly doubt he's making 500-HP at the rear wheels, and I strongly doubt he is making that much at the flywheel for that matter. A very well tuned engine, along with a nice free flowing exhaust.... can even throw off the owner sometimes.

But you're right. Without 1/4 and trap-speed times, we'd only be guessing....

gen3z

dreamer i have built many motors and my 482big block could lay numbers like that down w/13:1 compression,brodix-10,solid roller,if i would have known i could build a 9.3:1 350 to get that power i could have saved 9000.00...................i think he may have 220 rwhp and possibly 370 max with a nx 150 shot!

pvt num 11

Egads, I'd sure like to know where he got his components from... You would think, if it's possible, we'd all be out doing it, right? (not that I've even touched the engine on mine yet, but still...)

D Stroy H8

First off, the stock bottom end of the L98 won't hold up to 500RWHP. Neither will the stock 700R4 with a shift kit!

Kingtal0n

and second off there isnt a member of this entire board making more than 350RWHP with TPI components as far as i know, N/A

88-383

You're kidding right? Does a MiniRam count as a TPI motor?

KM

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Depends who you talk to, but i consider TPI to mean Long tube runners.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'm pretty sure he means stock tpi style parts. There are plenty with more than 350rwhp with SR, HSR, MR.

80smetalfan

yeah, i meant stock tpi. 500 rwhp would still be a quite a lot with stealth or miniram with that setup, and as D Stroy said, the amount at the crank he'd have to have would be a bit much for a stock bottom end. but i've never known anyone to seriously attempt (and expect to succeed) to get 500 rwhp out of a L89, so i wasn't quite sure. yeah, this was kind of a dumb question, but the debate has always been kind of dumb, considering his argument . perhaps my argument for him should just be that i'm making say....400 rwhp with my 305 and TPI, lol.

PhoenixFB350

does he race the thing? if he's running mid to low 10s and he's shown you his motor he's obviously not BSing. But I'd say he's just full of BS, most I've ever seen out of a stock TPI car is 350 RWHP

80smetalfan

yeah he's raced a few people around town on the streets, but it's like 12 pound turbo eclipses and civics and a few 5.0 mustangs, nothing that 300 RWHP wouldn't take. and hasn't annihilated them the way he would if he had 500 RWHP. i started the thread mainly to see if there was any possible (and realistic) way that he could get 500 RWHP with those heads, a good cam and stock TPI.

PhoenixFB350

then he's full of BS lol. if he's only in the 13s he's probably making under 300 RWHP

wyclefsirocz

oh yeah, my 89 iroc all stock makes 300whp.
its an auto and a 305.



i'm just kiding i'm lucky if i'm at 200fwhp

80smetalfan

200 fwhp? wtf? you sure it's a camaro?
just kidding, lol.

cronsformula350

You are wrong on destroying the tpi L98 motor, gm high tech was making over 638 lb ft of torque, and 492 rwhp at the wheels when they were running n2o on there 86 iroc-z, and if it wasn't for the dyno operator not monitoring the bottle pressure they wouldn't have had 1200psi going to the n2o solenoid, which caused the problems with collapsing 4 piston ringlands, and now its fixed and ready to take more punishment. Also keep in mind this stock never dissassembled short block has over 150,000 miles on it. SO please do not say a stock L98 will not take the punishment, this car already puts out 3330 rear wheel hp, and over 390 lb ft of torque on this headed, cammed, intake and exhausted car, with a th350, and stock 9 bolt 3.23 rearend, and before they went to a programmed prom, they were running 12.30s with a stock 88 eprom, don't ever say a motor will not take the power, unless you have the goods to back it up, view my site and see what I'm going to be putting out of my L98 motor!

http://www.cardomain.com/id/cronsformula

wyclefsirocz

u ain't much better. w/ ur LB9

PhoenixFB350

never hear much about people grenading their L98 bottom ends. same with LT1s, in fact I think LT1 bottom ends have gone 9s. still 500 RWHP out of a junky crap TPI induction motor is the funniest thing I've ever heard.

cronsformula350

Who was that last comment directed to?

yeah making 500 lb ft of torque and 380 hp is more likely on a pretty radical motor.

PhoenixFB350

wasn't really directed at anyone lol. 500 ft. lbs and 380 HP is possible on stock TPI but you'd need porting and prom tuning and you should be running solid 12s

cronsformula350

and not to mention, be a stroke for doing it, you basically have a truck motor, and even for a street motor, that much torque is way over kill, if your motor is makin 600+ hp and 600+ lb ft, and running 10's, then fine, but a 380 horse 500 lb ft motor is a waste.

88-383

I watched a Dodge Ram Turbo Diesel lay down a few 12.80's@ 81MPH last summer. I wouldn't be so quick to say it's a waste. The freakin truck had a lawn mower and rakes in the bed!

Remember, torque is what propells us and if a 4500lb+ diesel truck can run 12's with gobs of it. Then it must be ok and required to go quickly in the 1/4mi.

km

80smetalfan

well, actually i am (check the sig.) didn't mean to sound demeaning or anything, just joking with ya. you see, using my buddy's calculations, even the 2.8's and iron dukes make like 230 on the flywheel!

88-383- i didn't even know a diesel could run a 14, much less a 12. that's pretty crazy. how much torque did this thing have?!?

88-383

Hard to say how much torque it had for sure, but I'd guess it had to be around 750-850+. The truck was propane injected and may have even had boost mods and or nitrous. Who knows, but it made a lot of black smoke and was quick out the hole.

Can you imagine the look on peoples face when they get passed a Big Azz truck?

KM

80smetalfan

hmm....that brings up an interesting question i've never really thought of....

would nitrous really work (or help much) on a diesel engine?

cronsformula350

Well of course torque is going to work in a truck, they weigh more than 5000 lbs, when they are diesel equipped, and they have bigger hides out back, but for a 3500 lb car, with little weight over the rear wheels already, its just not that feasable to get to the ground without slicks, and a fully modified rear suspension, 450 is more than enough to get an fbody moving.

Kevin Gray

Actually, the bottom end on that engine had a stock crank and rods with ARP rod bolts, and TRW power forged pistons - it only had about 5,000 miles on it also. The bottle pressure increased to in excess of 1200psi due to being heated by the exhaust pipe running close to the wheel well (with no air moving). This caused the nitrous solenoid to cycle and by the guy not getting off the trigger fast enough caused fuel "puddling" that resulted in one hell of an explosion. It is back and running with freshly ported heads and I hope to run some extremely low 12s if not break into the 11s with the head work, programming, and cold weather we're experiencing down here. There might be a follow up story if I can get it in the 10s,,, but I'm working on getting the price right for the dyno time so I can do an intake "shoot-out" including a couple LTR systems, the HSR, and a converted LT1 intake. Hopefully that won't fall through.

I'd NEVER put any more than 125 shot on a stock bottom end with stock pistons and rod bolts and would NEVER put it on an engine with excessive miles,,, unless a leak down compression test showed it was still in tip top shape and I pulled the pan to verify the rod and main bearings were still in good shape.

However, I have run over a 500 shot on a short rod 406 with stock crank and rods (with ARP bolts) and TRW forged pistons that was making around 525 horses on the engine alone. This was a daily driver for me. I drove it every day, raced, and abused it for over 3 years and ran an average of a bottle a week-end through it with zero problems. I put over 30,000 miles on it before selling to someone that wanted THAT engine,,, even with me offering to build him a "new" one just like it for the same money. To my knowledge he put over 20,000 miles on it before retiring it to a race only car,, in which he "rebuilt it" then.

A little off topic I guess,,, but thanks for reading my article.

PhoenixFB350

lol, I think someone is confusing nitrous for propane. propane injection in a diesel has a similar effect to nitrous in a gas motor.
and that dodge truck running 12s at 81 MPH sounds completely bogus. from 12.0-12.9 MPH should be 115-106

88-383

Go get a clue then come back and I'll explain it to you.

Click here grasshopper
or here

or here!

or here

I didn't really try that hard to find a good video but I'm sure there's plenty to illustrate my point.

cronsformula350

I also have an issue of a 89 formula 350 from the hot rod of august 02, and he was running a stock bottom end and in the mid to low 11's on motor, and low tens on a 125 shot of n2o. I'm still going to build the **** out of my L98, and make 500 hp.

PhoenixFB350

no you're just an *** with no point and an insulting tone which I don't appreciate the slightest bit. Propane injection is commonly used on diesels for a great increase in power, similar to nitrous on a gas engine. And all those times basically coroborate exactly what I said (12s with an 81 MPH is BOGUS, so check your eyes). a truck running a 12.9@104 MPH (rounded) is pretty much normal for a heavy vehicle running that kind of time. the F350 was running PROPANE injection (hence the thick black smoke) and a corresponding MPH to his time, and another video that doesn't show times clearly but shows an obviously modified truck beating a modified 5.0, but your website listed a few diesel trucks running nitrous AND propane. I know I am new member here, but I am not by any means stupid. If you're going to be a smart ***, I ask that you PLEASE act smart.

88-383

PhoenixFB350

Easy there cowboy! This will be my last post on the matter. I saw what I saw! The truck was bracket racing so who knows? I've beat many peolple bracket racing while lifting at the end.

I just wanted you to be aware that the diesels cranking out the big numbers are spraying NOS and they're using propane both at the same time. That website is the company that makes the NOS kits for them.

If you really want to know more about this run a google search for "diesel truck 1/4mi times" I just cut and paste the first few vids from one of the forums.

I'm new here also, but am not new to the forums. I usually only post when I have information that can contribute. The contribution I was making here is that high torque can work wonders. The most extreme example I could could come up with was that diesel I recalled.


Kelvin

cronsformula350

You can also check out the products from bullydog, they sell nitrous and propane injection for diesels, diesels are built to take alot more pounding on than a gas engine, so you can run a diesel with nitrous, propane, and a huge amount of boost, and then change the fuel injection timing and fuel pressure and gain hundreds of horsepower and hundreds of pounds of torque.

SurfnSun

No way he's making 500rwhp or torque. My TT car only makes 400rwhp/535rwtq.

He's full of

PhoenixFB350

lol *only* 400 RWHP and 535 RWtq hehe, that's good for low 11s!
88-383 it's cool.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

You could run a 12.99 with an 81 mph speed with the right gearing and torque. Just cause the old 1/4 mile slide rule doesn't have it listed, doesn't mean it can't/hasn't been done.

A neighbor with a 71 buick skylark and 455 motor, t-400 and 4.11 gears ran 12.98 @ 98 and I saw him do it. He used to kill other cars at the street races to the first 1/8 mile, then they would give up, so he said why concentrate on hp, just torque, it also had a 4000 stall convertor. Left the line hard, but ran out of breath up top.

$.02