TPITuned Port Injection discussion and questions. LB9 and L98 tech, porting, tuning, and bolt-on aftermarket products.
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let me figure this out. now math is not a strong point but you did this originally back in 07 - and its mid 09 now and you are still not done.
so if i put my order in now i can have it in the spring of 2011?
put me in
- really tell us when you are ready to sell them.
1bad91Z: Looks like you are still going strong here, thats good. I did not take the time to read all the posts since I posted way back when on here. Your airlid must fit under the stock hood, correct?
Yes, the modified lid does fit under the stock hood, with the stock fastening snaps into the stock lower air filter housing.
To reply to tony_cogliandro's remark - I made two last year for close friends of mine. I waited until I not only collected more cores, but also had to find the time to make some more. I work two jobs and I'm in college (for a career change, but that's besides the point). The point is, I haven't had the extra time to make more until now. I apologize for the delay.
I have 1 out of the 4 cores completed (modified and painted). 1 that is half finished and 2 untouched cores. The one that is half finished will be completed this Saturday which will make the total completed lids to 2. The other 2 remaining lids will be completed hopefully by the following weekend.
One out of the four is already pre-sold. The other three are not spoken for as of today.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
__________________ 383 Forged Stroker. Splayed 2 bolt mains, TPIS Miniram, ZZ409, Probuilt 700r4, Dart 200cc 2.05/1.60 Alum Heads, 3500 Stall, 12 bolt 3.90, Dyno Dons Headers and Y, All new Spohn suspension and crossmember torque arm. relocated battery, 3 inch cutout, custom 4 inch custom airbox by 1bad91z , working on cervinis cowl hood! 11.72 at 115.90 with 1.53 60ft
1 is still available and this may be the last run of them that I make......
How would this work for a MAF car? I have a "305" but it's been heavily modified top to bottom (bored out, cam, heads porte+polish, ported intake and all..)
Thanks!
-Marc
__________________ "An engine is like an orchestra. It's made up of wind, brass, percussion, and a whole range of other complimentary sections, all working to make that beautiful music that we call 'performance'..."
Where can I get this part? Is there any place on the net that would sell it? Also how much are you selling it for? PM me if you'd like..
thnx!
__________________ "An engine is like an orchestra. It's made up of wind, brass, percussion, and a whole range of other complimentary sections, all working to make that beautiful music that we call 'performance'..."
i meant: the 4 to 3 inch reducer peice.. where can i get it on the net.. or where did you get it?
and how much are you selling the lid for?
Thanks!
-marc
__________________ "An engine is like an orchestra. It's made up of wind, brass, percussion, and a whole range of other complimentary sections, all working to make that beautiful music that we call 'performance'..."
The first thing I recommend (if you haven't done so already), is to cut the bottom out of the lower air-filter housing (see picture, it's circled in yellow)....
You don't want to have an air restriction before the air even enters the high-flow lid!
C40B-400X10 (Silicone Sleeve 4" ID X 10" long - gloss black)
AL4X4 (Aluminum Intake Tubing 4" OD X 4" Long)
Before you order the above parts, please read below notes first!!
Notes:
You may want to measure how long of a silicone sleeve that you'll need "after" you snap on the new lid. Measure at least an inch onto the lid's outlet pipe to the base of your throttle body. 10 inch sleeve may work, but if you have a stealth-ram or mini-ram, you might need 11 inches or more. 10 inch sleeve worked fine for my setup though.
Next, you will have to insert the 4 inch thin-wall aluminum tube into the center section of the 10 inch silicone sleeve. This will keep the sleeve from sucking flat in the middle under acceleration.
Your factory throttle body hose clamp will work fine for connecting the silicone sleeve to the TB, however you will need one more of those same hose clamps for connecting the silicone sleeve to the high-flow lid's 4 inch outlet pipe.
Thanks again to those that purchased lids! I've put many hours into them!!
Please feel free to post your results once you have them installed and connected.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me and I'll help anyway I can.
Thanks again and enjoy!
Michael (1bad91Z)
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Lid 1 - picked up locally yesterday.
Lid 2 - Will ship tomorrow morning cause they were closed today!
Lid 3 - Will ship tomorrow morning cause they were closed today!
Lid 4 - Completed today, sale pending (waiting on funds to arrive).
I have some pics that I'll size down and post later tonight.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
I think it helped, but then my engine was new and my tune was off so I didn't really get to see what it would do with a stock lid.. I actually have another lid that I plan to modify but I haven't had time. I hope it turns out better looking than the first did.
Here is a link to the pictures of my lid and MAF sensor http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/al...af-sensor.html (Pictures of my MAF sensor and air lid.)
__________________ 1989 Camaro RS, 383 cid, Holley Stealth Ram, ,30# injectors,4" Custom MAF, Comp Cams 280 XFI roller, 1.6 roller rockers, T5 World Class, 3.73 gear.
For all you Air Purification needs, http://www.cleanairwater.net
Just got my lid in the mail today, looks great. I am going to the track June 6th. I will test the difference between the stock lid and the modified one. The only drawback is that I will still have my MAF in. I am going to try and make either a 3.5 or 4 inch maf sometime this summer. I will also post the results of that later.
Thanks again mike
__________________ 383 Forged Stroker. Splayed 2 bolt mains, TPIS Miniram, ZZ409, Probuilt 700r4, Dart 200cc 2.05/1.60 Alum Heads, 3500 Stall, 12 bolt 3.90, Dyno Dons Headers and Y, All new Spohn suspension and crossmember torque arm. relocated battery, 3 inch cutout, custom 4 inch custom airbox by 1bad91z , working on cervinis cowl hood! 11.72 at 115.90 with 1.53 60ft
Just remember, if you do the bigger MAF, you are going to have a nightmare on your hands re-programming all the MAF scalar tables in PROM in order to get it to run right....
Even just using the bigger lid, you may want to bump up min. grams per second threshold at idle table from 45 gps to 55 gps in the PROM, if you haven't done so already.
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
looks like this weekend is going to get rained out, now I hope I have time to either make a 3.5 inch or 4 inch intake to go along with my new airbox. We shall see how she works then!!
Ok I have no fab work experience but I just picked up an air lid from a pick a part and would like to learn how to make one of these. It seems intimidating. My first question is how do you pull the lid apart without snapping anything?
__________________ 1991 Camaro Z28 305 TPI Auto.
Edelbrock baseplate, SLP runners (port matched), throttle body air foil,K&N filters with gutted airbox, 24lb injectors, high flow cat with Magnaflow cat back exhaust
Granatelli lower control arms, Ebay bought tubular panhard bar, TDS subframe connectors(bolt in), TDS wonder bar, replaced all rubber bushings with black poly bushings, 2.77 9 Bolt swapped in with the cast iron disk brakes(terrible by the way)
Not to be negative or anything..., but they are not easy to fab. I've been fabricating car parts for almost 15 years and it's still challenging for me to get them perfect.
To answer your question though, you have to cut the lower section off at the side seams and a couple of inches from the square air filter port, and then also at the neck. The pictures on the 1st page of this post will show you what the pieces should look like.
Hope that helps!
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Haven't seen this thread in a while.
Quick question for you 91Z. Did you ever get the chance to get one of your air boxes on a flow bench? Maybe one of the guys who purchased one has?
MAF may be a restriction but the box is definately a restriction. Bigger opening plus some type of ram air to those filters will help. You can go pretty fast with stock MAF with screens removed...how much to be gained by 3.5 or 4" MAF is still unknown. I didnt gain much with mine, actually ran about same... but I never re-dyno tuned it either... could have had some hp there
Bad91Z i have my stock airbox lid here, do you want it as a core for more mods?
[quote=1bad91Z;4312498]I don't have access to a flow bench or the extra funds to have it tested...
QUOTE]
Funds are everything aren't they?!
I always liked your air box mod. So much so that I had intended to purchase one of yours(or attempt my own) however I'm big on collected data.
Your engine combination is very similar to mine with the exception of EFI. I've always known the stock air box to be restrictive but with the photos you've provided I can see that is probably no longer the case. What I do question is the cfm capacity of the twin filters.
I can't seem to find any data (through K&N specifically) that shows that the filters will support the kind of horsepower I make. In one of David Vizards books, he states that one square inch of K&N filter material will support about 4 to 4.5 hp. TPI filters are 6x6 times 2. Thats 72 sq ins. About 288 to 324 hp. That could be a problem.
I love to see someones experience with big hp numbers and performance data using the OEM filter arrangement.
I'm trying to modify my stock TPI air lid to flow better too. I took some measurements tonight with play dough placed on lid and closed the hood I figure too that whole lid can be raised 1/2" and have enough clearance.
Running some calcs, location just after each filter are restrictions after raising lid 1/2". Area near bend over radiator is no longer restriction. From calcs, raising lid 1/2" will permit 1.64 times greater cross sectional area throughout lid.
Found below post where lids where flow tested. Lid without baffles and K&N flows around 550 cfm. 550x1.64 yields 902 cfm for raised lid. I'm trying to find out if two stock sized K&N air filters will be a restriction. I cannot find any flow data however if Vizzard is right, they will permit 240 HP (5.5"x5.5"x2x4). 400 HP needs a 10"x10" filter, almost twice size of two stocks combined.
I'm confused since wicked-irocz flowed 550 cfm with K&N's on lid. Using general rule of 1HP per 1.3 cfm, stock will allow 429 HP at 558 cfm and modified 693 HP at 902 cfm. I'm curious how Vizzard tested filters. Maybe filters flow more at high rpm's? Regardless maximizing flow to throttle body is our objective.
At one time I did the Camaro air filter calculations like you did using K&N's flow numbers per square inch. My numbers came out similar to yours. If our math is correct the two Camaro air filters are a restriction. I know on our dyno tests the Camaro guys remove the air filters.
joeblue, modified box must still help a lot if you are making 33 more ft-lbs on a 383.
I thought about it some more. Another restriction is area just after radiator where lid converts to round pipe. Stock I figure about 7 sqin and up to 9.6 sqin in raising lid 1/2". You will have to heavily modify this area to open it up so cross sectional area matches 15.8 sqin area just after filters for raised lid. I think you just have to make lid wider at area past radiator to make it work.
Also, could you modify front part of lid so that two cone style filters can be placed down in "fog light" tunnels and ditch stock filters? I haven't removed my lid base to see how much room is down there. Two cone filters with 3.25 in pipe diameter each would yield 16.6 sqin. Cone filter that is 3.25x5.12x5.25 gives you 169 sq in of total filter area. http://www.aemintakes.com/search/pro...Prod=21-2110DK
Doing extra lid modification past radiator and cone filters results in flow of 902 cfm, cross sectional area of 15.8 sqin and 169 sqin filter area. This results in 676 or 693 maximum allowable HP depending if you use air flow or filter area. I know actual flow involves more than just cross sectional area. Interesting to note that FIRST intake 71mm (2.79" -> 6.1 sqin) diameter throttle body is 835 cfm. Also from wicked-irocz lid flow tests, removing lower baffles frees up about 50 cfm which is a 10% increase.
I wonder if these extra modifications above are worth it since joeblue is getting great power #'s with only raising lid 1/2".
I built Joe's lid and several others. I did open the area over the radiator and the outlet went from the stock 2 5/8" D-port to a 3.5" I.D. round port outlet. I also recommend not only removing the baffles from the lower filter housing but also to gut it like the pic I previously posted with the yellow circle drawn around the area in reference.
Nice gains Joe, I take it you are happy with your purchase?
__________________ 1991 Z-28 (Black - Hardtop) 355ci TPI/SLP, Ported Vortec heads, Comp XR276HR-12, Hooker 2210 Longtubes / custom 3" Y-pipe with 3 1/2" mufflex cat-back, Borg Warner T-56, PROM tuned by me!, 3.73's, Hotchkis suspension, custom high-flow lid and ram-air, ALL the bolt-ons, custom Boyd Coddington "1bad91Z" Billet Wheels.
Just to let you guys in this thread know if your interested I have a complete stock intake system with K&N filters out of a 1992 Z28 if anyone is interested,I now own a Trans Am and its not compatable,Just wanted to throw it out there if someone needed one to attempt to mod......These mods are really nice...just PM me for info I don't wanna be a thread jacker....
I took of my stock lid base to install a junkyard unit where I cut off baffles. Looking down in front bumper area I am amazed how any air gets to filters in first place Engine air flow must have been an afterthought for GM. Maybe it's all in my head but engine feels more responsive even with baffles just cut off. Can't wait to try out modified lid!
Will cutting out fog light tunnels adversely effect radiator flow? I'm thinking about opening up top of tunnels for better flow to air filters and still have flow to radiator. I don't know if full cold air intake would remove too much radiator air flow. Thanks.
glad im not the only one.. did mine back in 1993.. on my 92 Z28
made 6 or 7 of them for Guys back then.. cut all from sheet alumn. and pop riveted together.. also Cut the bottom of the Y's off and used sheet alumn on that has well to up the flow..
my car has been sitting for 7 years in this photo.. fogive the Dust
air flow seems to be the same for cooling..never had a prob..
my eng is a lingenfelter 383. 11.1 mech roller..ran just fine 190 on hot days..
Last edited by articwhiteZ; 11-02-2009 at 10:13 PM.
I figure too that whole lid can be raised 1/2" and have enough clearance. 
Engine air flow must have been an afterthought for GM. Maybe it's all in my head but engine feels more responsive even with baffles just cut off. Can't wait to try out modified lid!
