Ricco

Exactly.. well I have been in this country for 3 years and i have yet to see what i would regard a good bumpy twisty backroad (pot holes dont count as bumps )... I managed 20 miles in a little over 12 minutes in my Impreza across roads that I am sure would stagger some people on this board, I doubt there is a 3rd Gen out there that could run that time on the same road. Smooth road tracks are another matter...

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Well, due to the nature of displacement and performance tuning, it's easier to make big power streetable with more cubic inches.

Just a thought.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

I don't know. I guess I like to come into any thread where someone is boasting about a 305's numbers and talk ****. It's kinda like boasting about how you won the Special Olympics or something. Haha . Just razzing you buddy.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

you say "pretty impressed". I say "Sounds on par for the mods". :shrug:

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

Dont worry, I am picking up the jets today from a local shop when I get the bottle filled. I was planning on dynoing with a 125 but I accidently borrowed NX jets, which don't fit a NOS nozzle, I didn't know that. I am actually building a 355, but I was shocked at what the 305 could do, torque wise. When I am done with it, I am going to the track with a bag of jets that wouldn't fit in your pocket and I am on a mission to see how much it will hold before it explodes. I plan on getting a fuel pump and maybe a nitrous fuel system stand alone unit before I do it, to make sure it doesn't blow up due to leaning it out.
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I understand, I was expecting a little flamage like I said, but not from a small block 400 that couldn't outrun 2 305's that posted in this board....lol, j/k.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

nitrous is cheating. Head/cammed 305s can make quite a bit of power.

jeepboy180

keep me posted on what that NO2'd out 305 handles when you go to detonate it!!!!!

BadAz_Iroc

383 stroker 460hp no spray no boost all motor

jay_d

i say **** on ALL gen 1 platform small block chevys, when i get rich im doin a LS1 swap into my car........i know a guy with a 01 ss camaro thats pushin 435
rwhp with just cam heads and a tune (and the heads are just stock ls6 heads) talk about a better platform to work with.....an LSX is the best around right now

8T9 BANDIT

its true, those dam things are firggen superior.. but i dont think it belongs in a thirdgen. i had a chance to buy a ls1 outta a 98 vette, i passed, i believe tpi sbc belongs between the fenders on my t/a. but if i were to get say a beat up formy as a product car. and i was say starting with a shell. then id prob do it. or id buy a 4thgen with that has one already in it. then mod the hell outta that.

jay_d

to eachs own i supose, but you cant argue with performance

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

ls1 only has that performance due to 15 degree valve heads and the cathedral port design. A 15-18 degree small block would still make as much power since they flow as much as ported LS1 heads. The hottest motor combination goin is the SB2.2 setups. They can make 800-900 hp naturally aspirated on a 355-377 combo. I've seen them do it.

mouthforcombat

First of all, I give you props, that is impressive out of a 305. Kind of a bummer that it takes spray to get those numbers, but nonetheless, power is power. Why not run a hopped up 305 until you drive it in to the ground and then drop a 350 or 383 in? That's my plan.

It's funny this debate has come to be. Does anyone remember the May 2007 issue of "Camaro Performers" magazine? The main story was "HATE ME: Add 150 HP to the chevy no one likes (305)". They took one of the HORRIBLY weak 305's from the early 80's and did the following:

- Long Tube Headers
- 180cc EngineQuest Heads, milled .030 for more compression
- Comp XE268H Cam
- Edelbrock Performer RPM AirGap Intake Manifold
- 650-cfm Speed Demon Carb
- ProMagnum Steel Rockers

Then, after some fine tuning, came the dyno.

350 ft-lbs of torque at 4500 RPMS
372 HP at 6100 RPMS

Now the debate is not 305 vs. 350, as it is clear more displacement makes for more power. The idea here is that 305's, with the money, experience, and right combination of parts, CAN make power. This article was written for guys with a budget to get some power out of their 305's.

TeePEye87

Similar notions that a lot of us 350 tpi guys have to make to everyone building 383 and switching to higher rpm intakes. I completely hear ya, it's a heck of a performer without the sacrifice of big buck build. Got to love how well these TPI's can perform if persuaded properly. More power to ya!

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

have you had the car at the track...?

i am doing a 305 build now. i just pulled out my 350 with a comp xe268 cam and 650 double pumper... going with a 305 tpi with an l98 cam 1.6 rr's afpr and home ported upper intake, t5 and 3.45 gear... i am hoping to run mid 14's on motor and mid 13's on a 100 shot... my 350 ran a best of a 13.9

so imo a 305 beats out a 350 depending on what you are doing with the car. my car to me is gorgeous i want to drive it everyday and it be economical but still have some pep to it. with just a 100 shot i could be running faster than a 350 with mods that gets 10 mpg... pshhh yall can keep that we'll see how the new setup goes.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I think you're going to be severely dissappointed with the "economical" 305 compared to the 350. At the end of the year, the 350 might have cost you a smidge more, but nothing you'll really notice.

....and performance wise.....well.......

Sheesh. REALLY? I dunno man, I'd rethink this.
I've got a friend with 305 very close to what you're planning, and my cammed L98 is still significantly faster, and I'm pulling down 24 mpg on the highway.

myTreadZz

LSx guys think they are second only to God. Of course I can't knock them, they put down great numbers and respond great to mods. But personally I would take a lot more pride in a motor that is harder to build, like the OPs 305, than an LS1. Putting down 400 rwtq, thats more than most full bolt on LS1 guys

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

Thats more torque than most cammed full bolt on LS1's. A good friend of mine with an 01 WS6, we did a head and cam swap with full boltons. We went with Precision Racing Stage 2.5 CNC'd 5.3 heads, and a Torquer V2 cam (not huge, but respectable), with typical bolt ons and it made 405 ft lbs, Granted it made 435 hp.
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I would definitely go with a bigger cam than an L98 if I was trying to put up those numbers on motor, but then again I tend to overshoot.

No 1/4 mile tracks within about 2 hours from here, but I ran it Sunday 1/8th mile and ran a 9.09 @ 79 mph, and backed it up with a 9.07 @ 79 mph. I couldn't spray it in first, the car goes sideways....

That equates to a low 14, high 13 by a conversion chart. I have no idea if those things are right or not.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

79 mph 1/8 mile time is good enough for mid low 13's. you need to get that car out the hole better to get better ET's. You have the power, just need the launch/traction

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

The real wonder of the LS motor isn't the peaks per se, but rather it's power under the curve. Well, it's peaks are pretty good too, but even if you're putting down "about" the same torque, the LS motor is doing it longer.

My buddy has a bolt on LS1 and I'm constantly amazed just how long it pulls. Sure it pulls hard, so does my L98, but his car has a power band twice that of mine! ....if not more......

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep area under the curve wins races. My L98 peaked higher torque wise with TPI, but the HSR intake made a broader torque curve and gave me the hp up top where its needed. Result was on average with 1.6 rockers, a 4 tenth gain and near 3-4mph

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

I launch hard off the stall, and spray it in second gear. I need some e.t. streets so i can spray out of the hole. I also need a 3.42 or 3.55 gear because I dont even get out of second in the 1/8th (2.73 gear stock).

ezysk

Great job on your improvements to your 305.
I can understand and respect the idea behind taking what you got, and build on it.
Some start with just the car, and rip out their stock motor and put in something better.
Some start with the car and the motor and say, heck I am going to build my 305 to the best it can be. Which I can totally respect that.
I can even respect it when someone does this with their V6 or 4 Cylinder as long as they don’t make claims such as, you can get more power out of a V6 than a v8.

What I have a hard time respecting is when someone takes their front wheel drive import, replaces the chassis with a tube frame, replaces their engine with a Chevy, put in a ford 9” rear and turns it into a rear wheel drive, replaces all their interior with light weight parts, replaces the body panels with carbon fiber, then even tries to claim the car is still a such and such. But that is another story all together.

But I can totally respect what you did with your car.
Sure, you can put a 350 in, or a 383, or 400, etc, and have an easier time making it perform better, but sometimes it’s not about the easy path.
Sometimes it is fun to be the underdog.
And for all of us that really do own 3rd Gens, we all know what its like to be that underdog.

While I would rather have a 350 or greater in my car, I can respect all of the 305 build-ups.

Good Job.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

do i have the fastest street driven n/a 305 on here?

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

I would probably say so, I haven't seen any 305 faster than low 13's n/a in my life outside of this board.

89305formula

iTrader: (5)

hopefully not for long i have some new stuff planned for this season, and i wont be happy untill i get a 12.0 with the 305 in street trim

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Matt, I think you do have the quickest n/a 305. I've seen another post tho the guy may have matched your mph but wasnt launching as hard so he didnt ET as well, still high 12's tho. it was a xe276/cc503 cammed car. Roller cam

whats your 60 foot times? do you have a converter with higher stall speed? With 3.42's and 2800 stall or so, you'll be getting well into the 13's. My L98 was doin mid low 13's with 79-80mph 1/8 mile traps

8T9 BANDIT

^ this dude runs 12's n/a
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whats cool is when i do searches, i see threads for 01/02 and there's lots of 305 pulling some pretty big #'s and quick et's.

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

Yes I have a Precision 2500 stall converter, nothing major. I didn't want to go any higher because I hate driving a car on the street with a high stall speed converter. I didn't bother getting the slips because I wasn't impressed with it, I know the car has a lot more left in it.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

my car is quickly slipping into all out drag car, but i can still slap a set of street tires on it and ride down the street. thing is, i think i have less motor than you do 89305formula. i'm not happy with my 12.3x's, i want 11.7x's, lol! i'm doing a solid camshaft swap soon, and trying to get more weight off the front of the car as well. i'm just setting mine up for the inevitable...big motor eventually, lol!

if i had the money, i'd do a t56 so i could still drive it more than once a weekend, it's just too frickin' expensive to put a 700r4 in the car that will live behind any kind of real hp. that's why after 3 stockers and 1 built 700r4, i went to the th350. seein's how the car will most likely ALWAYS be more of a drag car than anything else, i think i'll stick with the 3spd/auto's...

maroon88iroc

iTrader: (7)

i might end up going back to a 350 with the tpi but i wanna see how this 305 does.. i was saying i am looking to attain more gas mileage with this 305 tpi than my 350 with a 650 double pumper which i am sure will not be hard. i am going to be driving the car everyday from now on so i want something pretty reliable. plus the 305 is the stock motor and i had it on the stand and it wouldnt take much to throw it together so thats what i am doing. all the mods i am doing are easily swapped over to a 350 so we'll see how it goes. i dont think mid 14's is that far out of my reach with my mods. but if i get high 14's on motor and high 13's on spray i will definitely be happy b/c i can drive the car everyday and it still be as fast as the old motor with some additives lol. i dont mind spending the money to fill the bottle up every once in awhile i dont race the car that much anyways. ill have the a/c all back on there and a huge system in it and i am gonna drive it every singe day! lol. the way everycar should be done, mainly i wanna get this car reliable so i can finish up my 67 rs camaro

motorheadmike

Okay so you took a stock motor, threw on a few bolt-ons and sprayed 75hp and you and your friends are impressed with the results?

I think you should all be indifferent about the results.

You used nitrous and made power. It is kind of proven as far as modifications go, right?

Granted you can move forward with any size SBC later on with these mods. But, it is nothing more than a 305 with spray. Hell, we've sprayed a Tempo before just for giggles and it responded as expected.

As for the 305 haters: I have a 305 and hate it, as it is a limiting factor. BUT! It moves as well as any stock 350, which makes it fun enough.

FormulaL98

motorheadmike has the right idea. Although there r some mods on the 305 nitrous makes power regaurdless of the motor. But i beleave someone earlier said nitrous is cheating. How?? Its the progression of technology and the greatest bang for the buck in the automotive performance industry. Just as the LS1 has a superior power curve to basically any GM motor before it, it acheives such power levels due to the progression of technology. Reguardless if the 305 is sprayed or not or lesser than a similar L98 or whatever, the point is you can take a motor that was the first to bring "performance" back to fbodys since all the crap late 70's early 80's motors and make a solid performer out of it with not to much work or coin. Its really a testiment to how much the performance aftermarket has grown and made advancments making speed and power much more affordable and obtainable. and i do believe not to long ago there was a 9 second turbo 305 Z28 in car craft, i dig it.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

nitrous is cheating because its the performance enhancing drug for cars, its not "naturally aspirated" u made power with a chemical not mechanical.

titan

I never could understand why people say nitrous is cheating. If you're racing and agree to not use the bottle, then use it, then yea it's cheating. It's like saying a turbo is cheating, since the engine is not just sucking ambient air in on it's own.
It's like swapping all the fluids for high performance ones, and being told "thats cheating, cuz you got fluids with different chemical make-ups."
How about all the methanol and alcohol engines? They use different fuels, due to the fact that it simply burns better, cooler, and contains a higher oxygen content. It's not cheating, it's common sense.
Take $10,000 and build a "all motor" car with say 500hp. Now take a pretty much stock engine, with say 250hp, and spray 150 shot for an additional $400. I call that getting the most out of your money. Use that other $9600 for more useful things, like beer and strippers... OK OK, maybe a supercharger or a set of blow dryers.
Bottom line, IMO, is that injecting another gas, to increase the amount of oxygen in the charge, is not cheating, it's common sense...

FormulaL98

not that I dont like n/a motors, the 350 in my Nova is n/a but the flip side is it took a big cam of death and a good (say expensive if youd like) set of heads to build the power it does. now i could have saved quite a bit of money built less motor and sprayed it probably would run just as hard as it does now, except i wouldnt be shifting at 7400. but the car is period correct street race style so no nitrous is ever gonna make it under that hood. now my L98 is gettin a bottle, you just cant beat the drivability & perfomance that nitrous offers. But different strokes for different folks, as long as its fast who cares really

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

I like the fact that nitrous is cheap (compared to other power adders) and its hp whenever you want to spray it, but I dont know I just dont trust it unless the motor was specifically built for nitrous.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if it aint naturally breathing, its cheating! but i will be on the bottle haha

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

My thought is that anyone can add a 100 shot or what ever to their motor. So it does not really prove anything about the capabilities of the motor or the quality of the motor build or lack of.

Codename 47

iTrader: (4)

Well. If the motor can't handle the 50 shot and sends rods flying, then I guess you could say something about the quality of the build haha

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

You spend your $500 on motor, and I'll spend my $500 on a couple bolt ons and spray. I'll see you in the rear view....

I have heard this arguement for years, "I don't like nitrous, I think its cheating". Hahahaha. This is more like it: "I get outran by nitrous cars with less money than I have in my car."

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

yeah but as soon as that bottle runs outta nos haha then what you gonna do

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

50 more dollars per bottle to fill it up... that adds up in the long run. you run that bottle for a year, fill it up 10 times that year, thats 500 bucks spent right there. you may beable to get that hp permanently with a cam/heads work job, for just a few hundred more bucks.

WhiteIrocZ

iTrader: (3)

On a 75 shot, a bottle usually lasts about 10 passes through 2-3 gears. That means that I usually go through a bottle about every two weeks if I run it hard at the track. Even then the bottle is not empty and still heats up to about 950ish. That was before I installed the purge so maybe a little less.

It is definitely time to do something else to the car. I am thinking a xr258 cam, 3.42, and a Detroit True Trac (factory posi is on the fritz @ 125,000 miles). So there goes the power on a budget, but with all that it will be much faster on motor. I am also thinking a walbro 255lph pump and a 125-150 shot. Should be pretty stout.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The one I built is street driven and is faster. It only had a driverseat in it when it ran a 11.8 @ 119.1, but it was a NA TBI 312 (.040" over 305). 4L60E trans with a 3,600 rpm stall converter in it. It still gets 20 mpg on a daily drive.

This is its best run...

--RT = .380s
0060'= 1.95s
0330'= 5.11s @ 71.7 mph
0660'= 7.65s @ 96.2 mph
1000'= 9.94s @ 104.3 mph
1320'= 11.83 @ 119.1 mph

TA

iTrader: (1)

No matter what you have, if you tweak on it, you learn. I think the original post showed a good result for the money spent and what he had to work with. And as far as 350s, in my mind, building a 350 is not the smart choice either, since a stroker crank and correct pistons for a 383 cost exactly the same, and no longer require a dedicated flywheel or damper.

So, tweak what you have, learn and share with the rest of us. And whatever you do, there will ALWAYS be several people on this board to pee in your cornflakes, sometimes it's me!

Good job

TA

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't even build a 383 these days, with the 396 kit only costing a little more.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

You can put a 75 shot on anything and it would make good power for the money invested. Show us something new. Its not rocket science.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

On the boards, possibly. There are a few guys here at Raceway Park that are running 11's w/their naturally aspirated 305's, but they don't delve too deeply into their mods though. I posted a video in the street racing section of a convertible 305, up against an '89 TTA, and although the TTA won, the 305 put down a very respectable time for a bone stock engine, Click here....

camshaftxe

I dont know about anyone on the board thats a pretty bold statement. Stock for stock maybe, but there are people on this board with thousands tied up in suspension and drivetrain mods. I would like to see him vs a full bolt on l98 car with k member, stb, rear traction arms, full coil overs, sub frames, panhard, some realy nice shocks, aftermarket a arms, and some soft tires. Just like to wach.