oscarfromla

iTrader: (9)

Some people have had success using Edelbrock parts, but most think they're crap. Dyno Don makes some 1 3/4" shorty headers with y-pipe that'll work WAY better than edelbrock headers.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

3.42 gears cool! Edelbrock Headers ok. Dyno Don headers are the best shortys headers. SLP are second best.

Edelbrock Manifold needs major porting. Runners and plenum must be ported. Edelbrock heads really suck. They only flow about 24Xcfm. You car start with Dart Pro 1 200, Trick Flows 195 then AFR's. 195.

cruzplcs

since i live ca its has to be smog legal and the only header I only found was the edelbrock header ill go with the AFR head thanks for all the help ill go with the 355 hp and in the long run ill go with the 383 TPI. im 20 right now so i still got a long way to go.lol ill go with the sum setup u have provided me.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Dyno Don will sell you his headers with A.I.R. tubes on them, but AFAIK, they aren't actually smog legal tested for the 49-states, much less for use in Nazifornia. Only like $10 extra for the A.I.R. tubes. They'll give the appearance of being legal, but no CARB # on them.

dspencer24

iTrader: (3)

Theres always a way lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

hooker 2055's should be smog legal and have a CARB number atleast I thought they did

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Everyone with Dyno Don Headers passes California Smog. With his headers you don't have to worry about burning the spark plug wires and it's easier getting to the spark plugs. Edelbrocks headers are junk. You can't get to the plugs and you will burn the wires. Plus their headers are 1 1/2 and 1 5/8 tubes. Dyno Dons are 1 3/4 tubes. Or you can try to find SLP 1 3/4 tubes somewhere for cheap. Thats what I'm using. And I live in SoCal.

cruzplcs

where can i buy them i seach the net and i cant found them?
instead of the porting the edelbrock intake i can go with the big mouth system from TPIS and the Dart Pro1 200 Aluminum Heads have 64cc fast-burn combustion chamber, spark plugs located high and centered with 2.02" intake and 1.60" stainless valves and ill just bored the engine to a 355 with the zz4 cam, keith black pistons

DAREDEVIL 1

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...roducts_id=170

cruzplcs

thanks for the link and i can use the stock Y pipe that i have now right?

cruzplcs

instead of the porting the edelbrock intake i can go with the big mouth system from TPIS and the Dart Pro1 200 Aluminum Heads have 64cc fast-burn combustion chamber, spark plugs located high and centered with 2.02" intake and 1.60" stainless valves and ill just bored the engine to a 355 with the zz4 cam, keith black pistons

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

The TPiS Big Mouth manifold is the Edelbrock manifold with TPIS name on it. And the porting is not the same.

You can also PM Dyno Don on TGO. He's on the SOCAL board and on the Exhaust board.

cruzplcs

Ok thanks ill look him up. so just port the edelbrock intake?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Or try the FIRST system... 1000 bucks with base runners plenum and throttlebody... thats a heck of a package deal

cruzplcs

what you mean the first system are you talking bout the edelbrock intake?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

F.I.R.S.T. is what I bet he was talking about:
http://firstfuelinjection.com/

cruzplcs

ok i made a list on the item that im going to buy and tell me what you guys think?
700R4 Transmission, Heavy Duty, Performance, 2WD
[Part# MG302-700R4] Price: 995.00

Dyno Don 1-3/4" ceramic-coated headers, with air tubes
Price: 570.99
Single-cat Y-Pipe for use with Dyno Don headers
Price:230.00
Flex-a-Fit Aluminum Radiators
[Part# 56400] Price: 519.99
MSD SB/BB-Chevy 6AL Ignition Kit
[Part# 85551K] Price: 525.99
Holley High Flow GM EFI Throttle Bodies
[Part# 112-503] Price:357.99
700R4 Torque Converter, 2300-2500 Stall, 30 Spline
[Part# HD7730] Price: 275.00
Powermaster Alternators
[Part# 37861] Price: 199.99
AirAid PowerAid Throttle Body Spacers
[Part# 200-522] Price:141.99
Edelbrock High Performance In-Tank Fuel Pumps
[Part#17933] Price: 134.99
Optima RedTop Batteries
[Part#9022-091] Price:159.99

Dart Pro1 200 Aluminum Heads
[Part#60859] Price:669.99
Edelbrock Victor Series Water Pumps
[Part#8881] Price:175.99
Edelbrock Touring Suspension Kits
[Part#52063] Price: 1,103.99
700R4 Adjustable Throttle Valve TV / Detent Cable
[Part#K65940U] Price: 39.95
B&M Polished Aluminum Cooler
[Part# BM-70272] [Price: 179.95
Comp Cams ZZ4 Valve Train Power Package Kits
Price:531.99
keith black pistons

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Gonna choke all that with a stock cat-back? I see none listed.

cruzplcs

i have a magnaflow cat back exhaust system dual rear exit 3.5 tipsand ill just bore the engine to a 355

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

IMO Kill the throttle body spacers, 6AL Ignition Kit, Powermaster Alternators,
700R4 Adjustable Throttle Valve TV / Detent Cable(you should already have one). Use some of that money for porting. Instead of single cat I would go with dual cats for an extra 10-15hp

cruzplcs

why not go with the 6AL Ignition Kit from MSD? with this mod how much power do you guys think ill get?
with posi limited slip differential with 3.42 gear ratio.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Couple of things here....
make sure the 700r4 you buy is for an Fbody, as i think truck ones arent the same but dont quote me on that. Match the converter to the trans as well, 2500 stall is good. Make sure its lockup converter.

Reuse stock radiator from a later year thirdgen. Cheap, and work very well. Reuse stock TPI fans. Or try LS1 fbody rad/fan combo. Also a great system for cheap.

Skip MSD ignition, just upgrade the coil and plug wires and replace stock ignition module in the dizzy.

Skip the TB spacer. May even skip the TB for now. Try stock 48mm and then only upgrade if you feel like trying a new one.

Fuel pump is good idea but make sure the pump is a walbro 255 type drop in replacement for these cars. Most are. That will feed the motor

Dont need a expensive battery.

Those Dart heads are nice, but remember, thats 669 per EACH. you need 2.

If using late model accessory brackets, the water pump is a reverse rotation pump. Not sure if the victor series comes like this. Stewart makes a good pump thats designed for reverse rotation. traditional old school small blocks have a different pulley direction than 87-92 TPI cars.

Dont need a TV cable unless your stock one is missing or damaged.

B&M cooler, just get a regular black one if you want a cooler. Stock radiator cooling is more than enough for the 700r4 so you dont need an aftermarket one.

Do not by the ZZ4 kit. If you want a cam, go with someting abit bigger and use LS7 lifters if you need new lifters. Heads will have springs on them. Make sure you order the heads with a good hydraulic roller spring tho. Dart has options available. Pushrods......purchase a pushrod length checker and measure first, then place order for proper length pushrods.

Rocker arms, get comp magnums...180 bucks or so and very nice part roller design. Strong too.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Waste of money for street driving. On the dyno a gain of 2hp.

I looked up the cam you want to buy and that cam will not work for you. Its a carburator cam and you won't pass smog. XFI268 with springs will work fine.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

In short dont buy that you dont really need. Just get the basic items for engine build.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Do the Darts have EGR in the head or will you pull from the exhaust manifold like the vettes?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Yes they have them. 1989GTATRANSAM was using them and he pass smog with them.

cruzplcs

i look up the cam and i found a kit for 969.99 I just have to buy some 1.6 roller dont I?
KIT INCLUDES:
12-412-8 CAMSHAFT,
853-16 LIFTERS
2100 TIMING CHAIN SET
96986-16 Valve Springs
787-16 Retainers
601-16 Valve Locks
501-16 Valve Seals
202 Nylon Cam Button
7809-16 High Energy Pushrods
Instructions
Assembly Lube

DAREDEVIL 1

I would go with a champion radiator !!! + its a little cheaper !!
On the MSD, get a marine BOX..lots better less problems !!

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

How do you figure that?
The only cost difference on a full rebuild is the cost of the stroker crank and some labor for block clearancing.
Easier to make more Hp with 30 extra cubes as a base

DAREDEVIL 1

Thats what i said, but ...oh well !!!!

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Correction;
your comparison shows a SR will make more torque than a HSR
The torque/Hp profiles are already well documented in the previously posted EFI intake comparison
FWIW
I ran my fresh build 383 in with my proven big tube , fully ported ,siamized base TPI setup.
When I swapped to the HSR ,it was easier to launch because the terrible "loss of torque" helped me get traction off the line ( w/DR's) and the extra 1500 of usable revs at the top end made it run 4 tenth faster with no other changes

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Well does andbody have proof that their 383 TPI made over 400whp with a TPI manifold? I'm using 400whp as a bench mark.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

IF you run the same intake heads and cam on top of a 383 vs 355, the two are likely to make the same hp, but the 383 will make more torque. The 383 will just peak few hundred rpms sooner than the 355. If you go 383, you should go 5-6 deg more duration on the cam on both lobes to take advantage of the cubes. The increased stroke will require more duration. As long as the heads/intake dont restrict the air flow a 383 needs, you could see more hp but its not surprising to see same.
Yes cubes make more power but you need the induction package to use the cubes. I've seen this happen on a few LT1 builds... some of the "stage 3" 355 packages are equivalent to "stage 2" 383 setups...roughly same hp, but less rpm for the 383 and much more torque.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

I think the problem is that a 383 is too much for a TPI unless you use a Stealth ram, Mini Ram or maybe the FIRST System. The most I've seen was a 406cu with a Fully ported welded up Super Ram, 280XFI and an old set of ARF's 195 behind a T5 Trans that made 403whp@5600 and 434wtq@4700.

cruzplcs

What is a Shop that i can send my TPI System to get fully ported here in Ca?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Nah. I wouldn't say that.

Seen a 383 long block with STOCK TPI base, runners, plenum & TB = 410hp/510ft lbs. Different intakes on the same engine increased HP & decreased torque. Sure would be fun in a street car.

85 ZXX

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the TPI information web link Stephen

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

That article is Flywheel hp. I'm talking about RWHP!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Port work or bigger runners & that would take care of drivetrain loss, still be TPI & break 400hp at the rear wheels.

No need to lose TPI to get those rear wheel #s.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

power adder?

Marv02

LOL I have mild 357 in my 1986 vett it will run 12.7 in the 1/4 it has 307 posi rear end with 360 H/P 427Tq motor stuffed into it passes smog with cat back system.

Here the motor set up 350 bored .040 over makes it a 357 Hiper Flat Top pistons 9.575 to 1 compression, 4 bolt main not the stock block crank 10/10 Cam is a Howards 214/214@50 .447/.447 Lift with 1.6 Roller rocker arms that bing it to .479/.479 lift 290/290 duration 107 CL on the Intake 111 CL 16 degrees of cam over Lap Not a big cam RPM range 1000 to 5200, Eldenbrock hi flow tpi Intake Base, SPL runner, Trick flow super 23 heads with 195 runners 62cc, 24# injectors Chipped, Built 700R4 Trans 2200 Stall converter.

TPI engine are not High rev motors I set my up this way even if you had a 6500 RPM cam the TPI willnt rev that high, I think 5600 or 5800 I read is about Max.

It sound stock when it's running it a sleeper.

If you built the basicly the same motor with 383 and little larger cam you hit the 400 H/P easy.

If you put a Bigger cam raise the compression to 10 or 11 to 1 and run higher octain gas and higher stall converter you willing to rev higher also could get 400 H/P out the 355 motor.
But If I was you ang going to rev it alot go Forged pistons.


I can run Reg 89 Octain gas all day long drive it traffic get 27 MPG up on the HWY Suck all kinds of gas if you foot in it.

Turn the key and it will get you there every time with this mild motor set up and know one going to know you have something under the hood until it time to make them shut up.

Motor cost me $4500.00 to build the trans to get beefed up from a local shop with 2200 stall converter with a 1 year warrenty $1200.00 Installed.

If I was going to do it again I would went with a Roller cam set up I just did not want to spend the money at the time now I wished I did, as for the 383 yes and no extra 40 H/P would been nice.

Marv02

Oh yea keep this In mind it been proven lot of time maximum H/P not the best way to go useable power is what you want.

Power in the correct amounts at the right time will put out in front while the other guy with to much power that can't get to hook up is just burning his tires off going no where as you are pulling away.

DAREDEVIL 1

Oh yea keep this In mind it been proven lot of time maximum H/P not the best way to go useable power is what you want.

Power in the correct amounts at the right time will put out in front while the other guy with to much power that can't get to hook up is just burning his tires off going no where as you are pulling away.
__________________
357 4 bolt main (9.575 to 1) Balanced, Flat top 5cc pistons Howards cam 290/290 447/447 lift 214/214 @ .050 111 C/L, 1.5 RR Arms, Trick Flow Heads Super 23 (195 runners) 62cc , SPL runners Hi Flow intake base, 24# FIC Bosch 3 Injectors, Chipped.
700r4 Trans built, 2200 Stall Lock up Convertor, 307 rear end.
340 H/P 450 TQ
t’s not a racecar but never was built to be one.

Now that is a nice build !!!! me likey !!!

iroc stangs

May I ask what the double post by two diffrent posters are all about? lol

Ohhhh now I see whats going on haha, much confusing...

And I gotta agree on the nice comment quote

DAREDEVIL 1

I tried to quote him ..but it did not work 100% i guess..sorry

Marv02

Back In the day when I was heavy in to MX one of the top race teams said the same just because on the Dyno it makes the most power don't mean it the best motor set up to have.

Back in 1993 Honda Put Out the Honda CR250 it was not the fastest motor out they but it made the right amount of power at the right time thats why back there day they were King I keepped my Old 1994 Honda Untill 2006 And I still wish I keeped that Bike.

I had that bike for 12 years know one keeps a dirt bike for that long I had other bikes New bikes were purchased and sold after 1 year of ownning them while but I would not sell that bike.

DAREDEVIL 1

I like when sombody understand this...

Dyno # dont mean a lot and a set up all depends on what u do with your car !!!!

Marv02

Why

If you want a motor build a Motor dont worry about the Bling Bling get the drive tran working before worry about the Bling.

Unless you planning a Hi reving Motor the Stock HEI system is good enough.

The Stock TB is good enough it can handle 700 or 800 HP

Throttle spacer waste of Money.

Why Dart Heads theres better out ther for the money take the money you save from the other unneeded stuff and buy Motor parts that makes Power Not the Bling.

If you go forged add anouther $500.00

What going to eat in to you buget is HEADS $1200.00 to $1500.00 intake base and runners $1000.00 Custom Chip $350.00 Bottom end $1000.00 to $1500.00 Roller cam rockers arms push rods $1000.00 FIC Injectors $250 there's $4750.00 In parts already.

Plus trans to handle the New power Dont but a E-Bay trans you look at at Least $1200.00 up to $2500.00

Plus Trans Cooler $40.00

So far your up almost $6000.00 not including labor unless you doing your onw rebuild.

Not counting on all the hidden cost Oil Coolent Gaskets Ect Set anouther $500.00 to the side just in case.

cruzplcs

do i have to ported the heads to or just the intake and runner and plenum?

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Put some good valve springs on these to suit your cam and you are still ahead in $$$ over the Darts
Price is for a pair
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-30400001/