InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Didn't say it was hard. Said that with larger cam profiles, based on the mechanics of a carb and low vacuum, it's unruly. Since FI isn't based on vacuum to draw fuel, it can be dialed in.


OK, maybe I should have said, a properly tuned FI. Better?

Yeah, they're a dime a dozen now, and cheap to mod. Good bang.

When someone recommended the same part for every application, their advice is worthless. That's all I'm saying. And it's not so much recommending a brand as it is a part. Again, to get 350HP out of a L98, for example, stock heads are fine. You can do that with a cam, intake, exhaust. But there are people who make bad, expensive recommendation to reasons of acceptance, in my opinion, and those people are typically talking out of their ***. There is no such thing as one brand fits all.

.

I think we have different opinions about what is stellar. There's no more than the margin of error between dynos between similar parts when put together correctly.

Most parts in the same price range, within a couple bucks, typically perform all the same. There is no magic 50 HP to be found from one similar part to another.

Besides which, we can play that game all day...a few hundred here a few hundred there.

That's part of my point. "which comp cam" isn't giving options.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

You realize there's a whole world outside of CA and that they all aren't pollution ***** right?

Most states don't sniff after 20-25 years, and a most of these cars are coming up on that soon enough.

If that is a requirement for a particular build, then the correct part should be chosen. However, there are 49 other states where it is not relevant or less relevant, therefore there are more options.

Doom86

There's a big problem with this "way of thinking" is that it is truly just an illusionary problem that leads to mediocre results. Having cookie cutter parts, like comps cams, or AFR CNC heads, cost the same as custom and custom is just as easy to obtain and have better results.

And please don't think I'm above this my self, I have comp from the cam up to the springs and I bought all of it just for that reason. But I'm certain if I had known better at the time I would have done different. Because in the end "custom" still sounds "cooler" then any brand.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Or maybe you would have done the same thing, but at least you would have known and maybe could have tweaked for a better result. And the end of the day it's not the parts you pick, but how you pick them.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I figured it was referring to me using "AFR" heads in my response to him. For someone that probably is not too sure of what he wants to do and just wants 500rwhp out of a TPI show me an easier way... I'm sure you'll say a turbo setup, which would work, but he would need pretty high boost to get to the 500 number and more fab work which you're assuming he is capable of doing.

I've PERSONALLY made 479 hp TPI and over 500 on a Superram with this setup. I'm not looking for approval, pushing parts, or anything else. I'm telling him what I have done and what I have seen accomplish the goals he is asking for in a relatively easy setup.

The reason you see "AFR" etc given as it's a proven head that usually gives good results. Don't continue to bash people when the recomend them. Explain your side and show and tell us why they can choose something better. Then tell us what that something better is, instead of just throwing out other manufacturers names. The way you reply to EVERY thread I've seen you post in is simply to belittle posts and argue. Honestly, you seem VERY arrogant on here. I hate reading your posts because you bicker and write such well-written posts, yet they contain hardly no information on what WILL work better than whats given.

As far as the Vette posted, yes they are good numbers. We have done several LT1 vettes and usually get around 450rwhp and 450 torque with good H/C/I/ packages on a 383. Its a package the owners love and makes great power and torque. Also the "high-end" parts you keep talking about on the C4(rev-kit and dy sump) aren't increasing HP as much as reliability on road courses. I can't see it too well on this laptop, but its most likely a girdle on the rocker arms to keep them from deflection and moving at high RPM's. Also(as happened on my friends car) if you have a rocker-arm stud break it will hold it in place to avoid major engine damage. Make it wet-sump and remove it and I doubt it will lose many HP...


Chris

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Ain't it the truth....now where are my waders?
Some people dwell in a different world around here....
I have had to throw out 3 pairs of shoes this week.

xch3no2

Well the lemmings have arrived to guide the masses to utopia.



It's a beautiful AFR & Comp day, why is there no rainbow emanating from my...

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Unfortunately this is the way I see most of his posts and I'am sure others think the same but have to hand it to him does make you want to think outside the norm. Just wish he had something to back it up like examples or what have you then just saying I know better cause that means jack **** to some.

BTW when did 11's become the norm here cause those cars are few and far between, were not all driving light weight vette's.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I was having a conversation with ORR in PM, independent of your recommendation. I think whether is comp, afr, or any other product, there isn't enough diversity in recommendations. It's the same thing time after time. I don't think that's doing anyone any favors.

I also believe that many recommendations are made not on application, but on acceptance.

Nice work!

I have done that. And all I got in return was abuse by mob rule, and spewing marketing crap, that I continually disproved as bull****. There seems to be a theory on forums that because enough people say something it's true, even though not based in reality. Watch what happens when a sacred cow is slain, like this exhaust port crap. See how much hate is directed my way when you bring something up no one wants to hear or discuss. Because it flies in the face of marketing crap from their favorite manufacturer. Again, a glaring example is the exhaust port flow crap. See what happened here when I said it?

So you say this as if it's so easy to do, until the lynch mob gets on your back about it. Then nobody learns anything, but what the lynch mob wants them to hear. How is this a service to anyone? As we see here the method is to isolate anyone who thinks differently and discredit them. Isn't that what is happening? If you don't buy into doctrine as I have, you get called arrogant, know it all, you have people posting shill posts to trash you, etc.... Why is it all this anger is directed toward me, for example, when all I said is there could be a better option than what is listed and gave fact to back it up. If it doesn't fit the mob rule box, they don't want to hear it. They prefer to promote ignorance.

So before this turns into whining, I'll leave it at that.

I have written extensively giving examples of how stuff works, I tried to discuss port velocity, fuel suspension, flame travel, etc.. and other things. Here's an example:

You ask me to post information, here's an example:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...-question.html

And the fact of the matter is Orr seemed to be the only guy who wanted to have a discussion.

My approach is borne of my frustration I guess, and I will concede that. I'm just tired of these thought-less, mind less, mediocre performing forum builds.

And if you choose to recognize it with an open mind, I know by my PMs there are a number of people who see it, or starting to see it, that there is an issue with people pushing parts based on acceptance, not application. All I ask is for an open mind.

It's the same recommendations over and over...buy this buy that, no one listens, they just spew to be cool. Heck, on Corvette Forum there was a sticky for a bit, "How to build a 383"...as if there aren't 1000 ways to do it. Geeze.

Point of the problem is people are so dead set in their cliche's they don't want to hear anything that may shoot them down, or even discuss the possibility.

Again, the attacks are typically directed TOWARD me when I point out that some of people's long held beliefs may be based in folklure other than fact. That is why it turns into an argument. Guy says he wants 350HP, and the first thing someone recommends AFR heads. You think that's right? Seriously?

Look, I'm no genius. But there are things I have studied. I have studied them with some of the top people in this business. I have them on my speed dial. I look what people are doing with max effort engines and see how they apply to so called "street" applications. Not the other way around. The people putting together 50K engines to win big money are the ones we should emulate. The laws of physics are relevant and don't change whether it's a john deer tractor or a 3000HP alcohol car, it's just a matter of how you apply the physics.



I don't dispute any of that. My problem is when someone says...."it's all because of the comp cam". or "it's all because of XX intake" or whatever. All I said is that the combination in the vette has zero bearing on what this original poster wanted. NONE. It was an exercise to start a circle jerk. I've seen it 1000 times.

The reality is, nobody wants to hear it. They just want to keep pushing brands based on nothing more than marketing. And that is a failure of a forum. Anybody can spew spoon fed marketing crap. I don't see how that helps anyone.

Now, there's a ton of good information here too. Don't get me wrong. There are some very smart people on this forum. Experienced. Unfortunately, they are not the most vocal and aren't as pig headed as me.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

You know what I'm saying...no one wants to think. You're one of the smarter guys here, and I'm sure you're not as pig headed as I am...

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I gave examples in my links, like I said. I would be more than happy to have extensive discussions with anyone on anything, just leave the marketing at the front door.

Every time you spew something off a manufacturer's site, from a catalog, or a brochure, you have lost all credibility to me.

You know what you guys do....let me use this example.



I want to sell that car. Someone is looking to buy a car and you go to the manufactures page, get their talking points, and the apply them to the position taken.

It's called framing the argument.

So if someone was looking to buy a car, you would say:

1. you need a car that is red
2. you need a hard top
3. you need five star rims
4. you need a car with 48,366 miles.

Basically you would describe that car to a "T" then say "i'm not saying this is the car you need, but it fits..."

If you don't think this is what people do, I suggest you read the posts from this light. Once you see how glaringly obvious it is, you can laugh at it with me, and we can move on.

cuisinartvette

Ok from here on in dont anyone recommend a brand anything and submit your posts for approval at the front desk!


lol

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

You know it's more than that. It's bad information based on acceptance and some sick desire to push a product. And not providing complete and honest information for people that are spending money either by ignorance or sickness, either way, bad advice. Coke/Pepsi....who cares.

OP Problem: I want to make 350-375 HP

Proposed Solution: You need heads and you need THESE heads. NO, NO YOU DON'T. It's irresponsible information. But you know that. Then the conversation goes to "but if you just spent a little more".... in an attempt to sell a product. It's a sickness CV, and I think you have it.

This thread went off the tracks back when the link to that engine was put up, and never recovered.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

People want something little more real that you built or had first hand experience with, talk is cheap. How about sharing a deadly 350-383 combo that's pleasant to drive with some numbers to back it up, those always get people interested.

Showing off a nice shinny red car is more or less just fluff.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I love the use of the term "deadly"....funny. What's next "bling" or "seat of the pants" or "***-o-meter"....you're killing me! Anyway, speaking of fluff, can you describe deadly, and can you also describe the "numbers to back it up"... So I'm not so sure what these "fluff" terms mean. You'll have to elaborate. I'd like to know what the standards are for a "good" result.

Because from what I have seen, these TPI intakes are good for ABOUT 400 HP, and not much more in an NA environment. Sure it will vary from dyno to dyno. With the right port you can do slightly better. Maybe because people who really know what they are doing and want "numbers to back it up" wouldn't be using a TPI. I happen to like the chracteristics of a TPI, but I am acutely aware of their limitations. And given them, I think the same results can be gotten in different less expensive ways, but that's not cool.

Fact of the matter is the stock 113 heads, or vortecs will get you to the max HP limitations of the intake a lot cheaper than higher performing aftermarket models. I'd be interested in seeing someone pull off a vortec TPI or mildly modified 113 headed TPI and have the numbers to "back it up". C'mon you have to admit that there's a big portion of this that transcends technical and goes to ego and acceptance. It's the EASY way to get there, not the most efficient and not dollars spent.

And If I understand you right, there's only one way to get there, and anything that gets there in a different fashion, is sub standard. Do I have that right? What you're going to do is simply keep re-defining the criteria/standard or framing the argument until it comes out to support your position. Because that is what this entire discussion is about. Closed minded mediocre forum builds.


Before, it was an emissions that were the criteria, being in CA and all, now it's mild "pleasure to drive". If you want "pleasure to drive" go buy an Oldsmobile 88. Personally, I'm not a fan of mild. I like a little thump. One of the reasons I have a Gen 1 engine and not an LSX. I'm personally not a fan of LSX for those reasons. Great engine, dime a dozen, but not for me. SO, how can you thrust YOUR criteria onto someone else that may not be looking for that? And why would you want to convince someone that is important criteria to them?

Is this what the hobby has become? Building an oldsmobile or Buick?

I am holding in my hand a disk that catalogs over 10,000 dyno pulls given to me by the person who actually did them. It is decades worth of information. I betcha you can find something wrong or not good enough with every single one of those builds, because it doesn't fit your view of the world. I look at one metric, HP per CI based on the direction of the customer of how they want the car to behave. Some people will sacrifice HP, some will sacrifice smoothness. Just depends on who you're talking to.

Like showing a 479 HP shiny motor? That kind of fluff? Neither is related to the thread, but at least I made a valid point with my example.

DeltaElite121

Where did you get that information? That's the kind of stuff I've been looking forward to seeing for educational purposes. Maybe you can go over some stuff and share correlations and your thoughts over the documentation? That sounds REALLY cool. Definitely a wealth of knowledge there. Any comparisons between flow numbers and port velocity by chance?

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

It was given to me by a friend in the business. He's been doing this a long time, and I believe he may make this info available to the public.

I'll ask if I can publish some of it.

It shows the complete combination, it lays out intake, head, block, cam...etc

I'll let you know what I can publish, Ill be talking to him tomorrow.

DeltaElite121

That would be really awesome. I am also trying to figure out the critical relationship between the LSA and ICL along with where lift should be adjusted provided these numbers are modified (assuming we use something like a shelf grind, and what makes them balanced). I know what they do, but I don't know how each affects one another when changed on a custom grind and where/how it should be applied accordingly based on the conditions and setup desired. I want to see if my thoughts are correct on the issue, but we'll see. I've called more companies than you can fathom, but often an opinion gets in there.. and I don't want opinions, just like you.

Have you found any of that out from looking and making comparisons?

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

I was thinking more of the lines of pump gas, use of brakes and wont stall at every stop but whatever. Now if you can get your disk published I would be more then thrilled.

Doom86

This is confusing because you are not going to get 500rwhp out of a NA TPI, so there is NO way, let alone an "easier" way. With out doing math I'm going to guess a 350ci would need to spin to at least 7,500 RPM to do the work needed to make 500RWHP.

For good reason too it's the easiest and most cost effective way to get what he wants with TPI.

Sound good but not even close to the what the OP wants, it's about 100hp shy so it's not helping him reach his goals. Cool parts and all and it still cannot meet the goal because it's too far fetched.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Theoretically it only takes 300 cfm of flow to make 600 horsepower. So if we have and intake system(First) and bolted on to a head(AFR) with a total flow of 300cfm it has the capibilites of making 600hp at the flywheel.

So if it does not the question is why not. Where are we going wrong? That is what I am trying to explore with the intake systems I am building. I am using Larry Mueaux's PipeMax as a guide among other programs.

big_G

Where does this requirement come from?. Is the 300 cfm per head intake port tract, or gross throttle body flow? IIRC, NASCAR restrictor plates are 450 cfm, but those engines spin 8500+ rpm's to make 600 hp.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Where does this requirement come from?"

I have seen it listed many times from various sources. I just round it off to 2.0hp/cfm. For a hydraulic roller cammed motor the actual figure is something like 2.054hp/cfm. A flat tappet cam is a little less and a solid roller cam is a little more. The cfm would be for the total air intake track.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Here's the thing with "intake systems".. I have done some work two different intake manufacturers, and here's what we did: we put on a bigger throttle body on an intake, then swapped it out to a smaller throttle body, and guess what?

The smaller throttle body made more power, a few, but still more on the dyno. But the engine responded better.

So this is what we learn, well at least we did.

That the intake tract needs to be designed to keep a consistent, reliable, and clean flow of air from the throttle body to the intake valve.

if the TB is too big, the air will stall. If the plenum on the intake manifold holds too much air, like a resiviour, the air will stall and "puddle" there. If the head ports don't have enough CSA, they will become the choke point, the air will be forced up against the intake port and create positive pressure which will screw with the port speed and throw things off.

Then you have all the dynamics of the final step of the intake tract from the manifold to the intake valve, and how cleanly the air gets delivered. You need to control air speed, and quality of delivery.

None of this, and I mean none, is solely based on flow numbers. A sewer pipe flows a lot of air, but I wouldn't want to use it as a head or intake.

Air is a fluid, and it's trip from outside your car, into the cylinder, it needs to be controlled at every step. That is where the magic and engineering happens. The goal is to keep a consistent flow, from the throttle body, fill the plenum, and deliver the air to the intake runner. Then it's the job of the head port is to suspend fuel into the air stream, to control flame travel, and to deliver the fuel in a neat swirl for good combustion. The entire goal is to have the air coming into the intake tract on the 1:1 basis for what is being used by the engine, without extra air just laying around waiting to get sucked in, or being short. That's where "too much" intake volume will kill you, or too much throttle body, or too little. You're pick. As long as the air going into the cylinder is immediately replaced with new air, with no drop in manifold pressure, that's where you have a winning combination for an NA engine.

Something people never talk about, VE. It's all about managing VE at the end of the day.

This is why forced air works, it maintains a consistent pressure behind the system to gaurantee that every time fuel is delivered into the cylinder, it's fairly consistent. FI also increases the VE but can maintain it by the nature of boost. And no, there is no special head for forced air. If you have the right one on there, it will work well with a FI situation.

Air is a fluid and fluid dynamics dictate the characteristics oh how this stuff works. So if you think of the air, as water it's easier to picture. Comes in through the throttle body, then hits the resiviour, then gets sucked through the head. The more controlled that process is, the better results you will realize.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Excellent point gary, and I bet their exhaust ports on their heads flow no more than 230.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Hey, I have a question on this. How docile wsa the engine? Was it something that grandma would consider a "pleasure to drive"?

I suspect not.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Does it matter just a tractor motor anyways

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

That engine made power to 6500, no tractor there......I think all HR cams should go past 6000. I really like the dyno graph. 400 ft/lb torque from early on and flat, and power to 6500. Looks a lot like mine.

How do you think he made nearly 500HP? By spinning it. RPM=HP. Stop that engine at 5000 not so much HP. It's no trick.

But I will submit, that had it been done with different components, nobody would need that. We'd be getting a whole different story, but since it's "cool" it's all good. I know that because I've been told that, that's a "race car" engine if it makes power to 6500. Nobody really needs to make power over 5500 RPM for a "street car" so it's a waste of time. However, now, it's a good thing.

This is what I'm talking about selective criteria based on cool parts. It's so obvious, it's funny. Had I posted this example, I'd be told it has no bearing on this board because all the power is up top, and it's a race engine. And by the same people who are telling us how great it is. Go figure.

SO tell me, which is it? 6500 with "cool parts" good. 6500 with unapporved parts, bad.

I'm confused.

I may just bookmark this thread for next time I'm told that.

DeltaElite121

If it makes you feel any better... I bought DART 200cc Iron Eagles, and the guy who has taught me a lot says they're a bad choice and they will blow up my motor because they're bad heads and I want too much power. Now I'm no expert, but that definitely made me laugh. I asked him about AFR's and he said they were good, and I just let it go at that point. People's opinions based on OTHER opinions are beyond damaging over nothing.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I agree, if you have the money to build the motor, with a good bottom end, theres no reason to limit yourself to 5500 rpm If you dont have TPI (non siamesed) then 300 bucks for a cam can get you more rpm. Less rpm isnt cheaper, same price.

However, alot of the guys only wanting mid 12 second daily drivers here on this board...you dont need to turn over 6000 rpm to get there. Heck even my LS1 shifts at 6000 and that may be a touch too much since its done at 5500 and it will run mid high 12s all day long. My bolt on L98 shifted at 5500 and ran 12.9's. Mild head cleanup and small cam with more gear would have been mid 12 car all day long.

Sticking with the "all in the combination of parts used" build talk, dont use more rpm than you have to to get your goals.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

I agree completely. What makes me happy is that you got the product you wanted based on informed decisions. Not forum folklure. If that's the case, I'm happy, regardless of what you pick.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

He asked for 500rwhp, I made less than 20 from that? How is that far fetched? The with a Superram I made OVER 500rwhp.


Injectorsplus, it was very docile. My aunt drove it on many occasions. Here is a little idle/pull off, but not very good. Unfortunately it's the only video I have

http://www.youtube.com/user/nufnuffz.../0/LaNekDWxm3A

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Sounded great! Nice job.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Really? Do you have build information? I'd love to see this, thats very impressive!

big_G

That is 600+FWHP. With a smaller cam on 15 lbs. boost I only was able to muster 555 RWHP. How much nitrous? How about a dyno sheet.

DeltaElite121

You should've seen him when I told him I went with a XE274, lol. I didn't hear the end of it for a WEEK. He was set on the 268, and that cam is wayyy too mild for my application and desired RPM range/powerband. I wanted my power midrange to upstairs so I could effectively run at the track if I wanted to and still have fun on the street with minor (if any) drivability issues.

"Dave, you young kids keep goings bigger and bigger... wantin' more power and you keep blowing stuff up"

... what he doesn't know is the difference between his engine builds and mine (and other friends that know him also follow his steps) are he uses ALL oldschool parts and new (but bottom dollar) components. I use all high grade ARP hardware on everything in my motor even if it doesn't "need" it.. I also take every insurance measure I can. Did I need a Quickfuel 750 Annular carb? Nope, but I wanted the best of the best so I know if I have issues (even if it's the carb) we won't have a problem. Transmission issues? Nope, because even with my power levels I bought the best transmission cooler I can buy and have the best additives for the transmission that have proven to work. I didn't NEED it, but I take good care of my stuff. I want it more than optimal. I want it excellent, and damn near perfect if I can get there. All those little things really start to add up. I don't have a lot of money, but I know that really - I'll spend a lot more doing it over twice than just taking it slow.. letting everything sit, and putting it together with the right stuff for MY application, and some. End result? I'm happy because I didn't slap together a build that someone else told me I should do. I did what I wanted because I wanted to see how it would react and if my careful calculations were correct. I am not "old school" but I think my friend Phil has forgotten what that's all about. He's in a hotrod club, but he's lost his touch with what hotrodding is I think. I'm trying to show him that new technology is out there for guys like him to take out some of the harder stuff and aid his already existing knowledge. There's alot better that 882 heads now, you just have to learn where/why it's better, and even how you can make them better than when you got them out of the box. That's what makes the difference in my opinion. When you choose to stop learning you are no longer an effective teacher. I am only 24 and I need a whole lot more seat time as this was only my first engine build because I lack a place to do it, but my journey is just starting. I can only hope when I'm Phil's age I can keep learning new things with someone else who's in their 20's and experience new cool stuff with the same old techniques and parts we're used to using now.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I did. I know the build was around here somewhere(on thirdgen), but it is an old combo that a few on here used to use a lot(One that injectors plus would HATE).

360 TPI(because of a bad hone), AFR 190cc heads, 10.5-.7 compression, 3200 Coan converter, 3.73 gears, Comp extreme grind cam(I think it was 224/230 and 503/510 on a 112). Fully ported Edelbrock base, SLP runners, plenum, 52mm TB, LT headers with H-pipe and true duals.

Video was with the Superram...

We initially hit it with 150 shot and that is what was on during the track run. On the street that was a 200 hit. I eventually busted some piston rings because the AFR springs sucked and lost almost all of their pressure and I was trying to pull too much fuel from the stock fuel rails and it was running lean. It was definetally a learning experience. After I put on the SR I picked up 30 hp instantly...

Sorry no dyno sheets. It was done at CAM in Durham a LONG time ago

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Don't inject facts there G. I love these legends. Every time the story is told it gets bigger. I tells ya, these parts, they are magic.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not a bad combo but not a 500rwhp naturally aspirated TPI setup Nitrous or forced induction is likely the only way 500whp is gonna happen.
My friend has a similar setup with stealth ram, same heads, same cubes, 280xfi cam. Runs 7.9's in the 1/8 right now at 87mph best trap. Think theres more in it with more gear and tuning/traction. I think more in it with new stiffer valvesprings too. I think with a 150 hit, it would also be mid 400's whp.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

TEXTBOOK!

Good points. I have found out over my 25 years of breaking stuff, that there is a high cost of being cheap. When I got my trans I just went top of the line.

On the other hand, let's say harmonic balancer. SFI rated, $100 or $300. $300 really? There are places to spend money I agree.


You educated yourself and didn't do the lemming thing. I admire that.
.

HA! Just the opposite of shiny fancy parts huh. YES with today's new technology there's a lot that can be accomplished.

Great ending. Good work, keep it up. Best of luck to you.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

LEGEND? I ran the number MYSELF. I know it ran 10's for a fact. I posted a 7.15 on a 150 shot which translates to LOW 11's in the 1/4. Some people care more about how the car runs, then peak power or something "impressive" on a dyno is...

What has your car ran? It should be 7's with all of the information, velocity data, flow numbers and facts that you have. Besides, I'm ALWAYS open to learn. You on the other hand simply want to belittle others recomendations as it's a "mass" thing to do to gain peer approval in your eyes. I built the 360 in 2002ish. It wasn't the "thing" to do, it was what I felt would work the best for what I was doing and have given recomendations based off of that.

Just wait another month or so, I'll show you some 600+ rwhp TPI numbers

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

No kidding right? Not happening. But this is how products sell. On myths like this.

This is why I don't like talk about dyno numbers, they are generally make believe. They are a GUIDE no doubt, but not much more.

I like timeslips. I can take a timeslip and figure out the HP.

big_G

Must my my crappy Vic. Jr. heads. If someone wants to lend me some AFR 210's, I'll pop them on and do another dyno session for a real comparison.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

Yes, I agree it wasn't. The 479 rwhp/over 500 was on nitrous..

Everywhere I posted I said the numbers were with nitrous....

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

Now wait a minute. Let's assume the car is what with you in it? 3500 pounds? Give or take? Lets say you had a speed of 120 MPH at the traps. If we assume "10s" is 10.5 not 10.9, That would put the car at 535 CHP, take 15% for the driveline loss that's about 450 HP at the wheels. You're about 100 HP off would think, based on the math.

HOWEVER, if you're saying it was with a 150 Shot, that makes more sense. I can believe that, that would put you at 380 NA at the crank, about 350 to the wheels. Makes more sense.

I know there's a lot of assumptions there, but try this:

http://www.dragtimes.com/horsepower-...power+Estimate

It's not perfect but it would give you an estimate.

As for me, no, I didn't build a 7 second car, it's not what I wanted. I'm not belittling anyone. I'm just saying your numbers don't make sense. So is Big G, so is Orr. They seem to defy the laws of physics is all. But if you insist, that's fine.

Can't wait to see the 600HP grocery getting, grandma driving rocket.

InjectorsPlus

iTrader: (1)

with boost it won't make much difference. Even without boost.

Doom86

I was just going off what you said. Comparing rwhp to hp, you gotta be more clear.

Post that dyno up when you can because obviously you are the only one so you should have that thing in a glass case readily available.

Funny video though I really liked the part when the brands of the two "cool parts" were displayed in bold, got a good laugh out of that.



You can see in his video where the "mystery HP" is coming from.

I've read this too but not from many sources only a certain "crowd" submit to that and they are usually repeating what someone selling heads told them. IMO that is complete spank, no offense, it assumes too much.

What does pipe-max think of that? I've been thinking of getting that program but just being a hobbyist I don't have much use for it other then "just to know" port dynamics. Larry knows his **** there is no questioning that.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

You're very naive if you see it that way. You don't think a 360TPI/Superram would make 500rwhp on 150-200 shot?

Take the run I POSTED. 7.15@98(and that was no where near my best)

It calculates to this:

Your HP computed from your vehicle MPH is 537.52 flywheel HP and 483.77 rear wheel HP.


And no... grandma couldn't get in and out of my blue car. Too much cage... It won't be made to go get grocieries either. Not it's purpose.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

If you paid attention I stated that was on nitrous... I NEVER stated it made anywhere near 500rwhp NA. That is crazy...

What's funny is the video was made by a friend of mine(I didn't "highlight" anything) and it was made before you were even a member here.

Even in the information I gave the OP NITROUS" WAS LISTED THERE TO MAKE 500 RWHP"

Guess yall are just so ready to strike people down you missed it the many times that was posted...

big_G

I know of a BONE STOCK '81 'Vette, with just M/T ET streets and a 100 shot runs very low 11's. So what? Throw nitrous on a turd and you will have a fast turd. BTW, I may hit the track this spring, now that my 10 point cage is in. Besides, my bullet is big enough that I don't worry too much about being "shown up".