VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Hell me too!

TPIVette

This might be a little bit apples to oranges since it's in a y-body (91), but its still a TPI so I guess it applies. The below graph shows my original 350 and my new 383. The 350 was a bolt-on, stock heads/cam engine with AS&M runners, ported plenum and SR base. It ran a best of 12.49 at 108 with mineshaft November Atco air, but still usually ran upper 12s in warmer weather. The new engine is a 383, LPE 219 cam and TPIS ported 113s. It has the same intake on it. The lower scan is also the new engine with a little more tuning. As you can see the torque drops off quick like you'd expect with a TPI car, but the HP surprised me. It stays nice and flat to 5.5k+. I haven't had the car to the track with the new engine yet, but I'm hoping for low 12s in normal weather and high 11s in good air.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Very interesting. Seems to defy logic. Heads are still kinda small even when ported and can isn't huge by any means especially for a 383 yet it holds power to 6500. Actually lower graph appears to peak by 6400. Obviously some runner length wave tuning harmonics goin on there at high rpm but that power curve just doesn't fit what you think you would see with long runner tpi

ASE doc

That is a beautiful flat torque curve. Looks alot like a Victor Jr. dyno sheet. I believe Myron's goal was a long flat torque curve that would really support high rpm power (sort of like TPI's alter ego). I would say he definitely succeeded. It may well be that I end up using the Mini ram on my next build. I have an custom intake design in mind that would work very well for my goals but dreaming it and building it are two very different things. I plan on making about 620 at the crank and will need to make power to 7,000 to do it with 377cid. I also want reasonably good street manners.

All that being said, for a stompin' small block that will hook on the street, make plenty of tire smoke, and run in the 12s, the TPI still works just fine. My little 355 TPI beasty is a thrill a minute.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

620 hp is 500+ at tires or so. Mini ram will do it but a 377 will need great airflow and definitely some rpm to get there. There's been some lt1 383-396's doing that with heavily ported factory intakes I believe

ASE doc

If I remember my math right it's about 330 CFM per cylinder. Archie Somers and I sat down and talked about it some time ago. It's basically a NASCAR spec small block with reduced compression to run on 92 octane. The trick is balancing the cam profile needed to make power past 7,000 with the compression ratio needed to run on pump gas. This, while balancing 330 CFM port flow with sufficient velocity to support drivable torque from 2,500 or so rpm. EFI helps alot in this regard as we can fine tune fuel and spark throughout the power band.

The long rod 377 will support top end power very well, better in fact than a 383. Low end torque will be less, but not terribly. My concern is combining the right intake port and valve with the right intake runner and matching it to the right cam lobe. Fortunately cylinder heads just keep getting better. That helps.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Does it have to be a 377? (I assume this is a 4.125x3.48) 400-406" have commonly been pushed 600-650hp on pump gas without too much effort or rpm. I've seen 720hp on a 402, pump gas and driven on drag week hauling trailers. Cubes are your friend for n/a, unless you just want a 7K+ rpm screamer. Not an issue either way, just saying its easier with 400". Just need to turn 500 or so rpm higher to make that power, which is cake on a 377. I think if the cam and heads are right, you'll have 600+ hp before 7K rpm but 7500 wouldnt hurt Except the trans part...autos dont like high rpm and builds for that can get much more expensive

ASE doc

LOL, You're reading my mind. I've got a couple of friends here locally with 406s. I've been thinking of going for the extra cubes. But it's just like building the TPI instead of going with a Mini Ram in the first place. I tend to do things just to prove I can. Fortunately I have an excellent machinist who supports me in my stubbornness. As far as the trans goes, I'm with you there too. I shift my 700R4 at 6,800 right now and I know that the more I do this, the sooner I'll be seeing my friends at Oregon Trans to have a new one built. I have to kick myself because for what I have wrapped up in this unit I could have just about purchased a T56.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

355tpi, 2800 STALL, 3.73 gears and full weight minus A/C I ran a 12.24.

On a 150 shot I ran 11.40s.

Switch to a super ram and went 12.00s and 11.00s

cIaRmOaCrZo

.

ASE doc

The wonders of the bottle. My buddy Terry Bacon runs 8 second ETs in his 540 BBC powered 68 Camaro Pro Gas with a 200 shot. Better yet is forced induction where you don't have to worry about running out of gas. Still, there are some of us who want to make power with engine alone.

Z28FAST1

So this set up dynoed about 350rwhp/380rwtq before the cam swap. The average cam swap from stock to aftermarket nets 20-30HP? 40HP from an aftermarket to a better spec'd cam seems a bit unrealistic/optinmistic?

Better not let your son get some headers and a tune because those Ram Air TA's have killer top end!!!

Interested to see your new dyno and 1/4 mile times compared to the Cali guys with bad air/DA.


6500+ RPM...that's the highest "revving" TPI I have ever seen . I would kill to run at ATCO!!!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

What average cam swap picks up 20-30 hp? Maybe on stock heads with mild cam... Cam/heads/intake on L98s can pick up almost 200 hp over stock.... I believe someone has shown heads only or heads w/intake mods has made another 30-40hp on a stock L98 cam/shortblock. So a better cam can pick up over 100-150hp.

These motors are extremely restricted from the factory with tiny heads/cam/intake. When you add some serious stuff, you gain SERIOUS hp.

He swapped from a mild 224 cam to a big zzx which is 239-240 deg or so. Huge difference, i can easily see 40hp

Z28FAST1

I could see more than 40-50 hp with heads and intake but 150HP just from a cam swap!!! This would mean that there would be several stock.cube 400+ rwhp TPI's(and variants)
I guess they're not posting in this thread.

If same principles apply, I'm going to swap out my 224 and make 460+rwhp with an ms4 on my 346?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I said intake as in non tpi. A L98 with exhaust mods may dyno 220-240whp. Heads intake manifold and cam could potentially deliver over 400whp and guys have done 400whp on stock shortblocks. Thats a gain of over 150 hp and almost 200 hp in some instances.

You are reading too much into this.
There are no set principles to apply to other motors. So no you cant say a cam on l98 made 150 hp more so my ls1 will make that too. Ls1 has better intake and heads stock. There isnt as much restriction so there isnt as much gain potential

Z28FAST1

I see, you are talking theoretically I'm talking real life dyno or track times(hence the title of this thread.)

Carry on, I was just curious.




BTW, GTA MATT, really digging your set up:

Vega

I think a good thing to keep in mind when considering a TPI build is that you have to look past what the internet makes quarter mile times sound like. Reading online you'll think a 12 second car is mild and a 13 second car is slow. In reality a 12 second car makes for a very fast street car. The new ZL1s are hitting mid-12s and the 2013 GT500 with 660hp is hitting low 12s so dont be fooled into thinking your car isnt fast if youre not hitting 12s flat. A good TPI build will net you a very fast and extremely fun street car with mild manners, great mileage, and all wrapped up in a sweet classic ride, its the makings of a very fun, very affordable classic hot rod. Will you beat everything at the strip? No. Will you lose to everything at the strip? Also no. But will you beat 90% of cars you pull up next to at a stop light? Sure. And your car will still be a healthy driver and pull down some affordable mileage.

Dont get hung up on numbers and "what ifs". A 12-second 20mpg L98 will make for a hell of a ride. An LS motor will do more but will be more expensive and in the end you'll wonder if the price paid really justified that .5 second and 3mpg difference. Honestly the people doing LS swaps are more doing it to be different than for a performance advantage (although the advantage is there) but now its kind of old news, so many have done it thats its not that 'different' anymore. Also anymore the LT series just isnt enough of an upgrade to justify the cost and labor honestly. Parts are harder to find and so more expensive, its easier than an LS swap but still way more of a headache than an L98's top end swap, and in the end you wont have much of a difference over the L98 anyway. The LT is kinda obsolete anymore

But again, dont let the fact that you dont have the absolute most power in town get you down because theres always going to be that one guy with the ridiculous big block Chevelle making more power and doing lower quarter mile times. Just build a car you can have fun with affordably, and in todays market its hard to find a better bargain for that kind of build than the 3rd gen Camaro or Firebird/Trans Am. A 400hp/400tq mill in any 3rd gen will be enough to get the blood pumping. It'll be fun, exciting, will win more races than it will lose, will pull down good mileage, will be a rather cheap build, a very reliable build, something with good street manners that you can live with and drive daily year-round, and when its all done you'll have so much fun blasting down backroads, slamming gears with the t-tops out in a rather uncommon and rather underrated generation of Z28 or Trans Am :-)

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Incorrect again sir. I said could because it depends on the heads/cam you use! I'm not sure how you dont follow this. Let me break this down

FACT. L98's with some exhaust mods can dyno 220-240whp. Some more some less, it all depends on condition and tune and dyno type.

Fact. L98 with those same exhaust mods, but add stealth ram intake or miniram intake and add AFR 195 heads or simliar, shaved abit for compression closer to 10 to 1, and add a 230 deg .600" cam, rev 6500 rpms. You WILL make 380-410whp give or take depending on cam lobe/tune/dyno/air conditions etc.

Its been proven here. Burnout91 has a stealth ram and 280XFI cam under AFR 195 heads I believe on a stock shortblock and made 400whp. What more proof do you need? GTAMatt made 370's whp with a AI 220's cam and miniram and good heads.

Do the math. 400-240 is a gain of 160WHP from just intake/heads/cam. If you dyno'd only 220whp with original heads/cam/TPI then thats a gain of 180whp. Thats awesome but when you think of how badly restricted L98's are from the factory, thats expected.

This is way offtopic tho.

TPI is NOT HSR or MINIRAM or SUPERRAM. TPI is long tube runner configuration. Whether its FIRST, SLP, TPIS, EDELBROCK, etc... LTR's in the as cast lengths and diameters will not support RPM on a 350+ motor and thus your power is limited. Now the TPI graph that shows it pulling flat to 6500 rpm is pretty awesome, but it doesnt really peak any higher, just holds it for longer. A different intake would likely show more "peak" power at a slighly higher rpm.

IMO, to build TPI, you are handicapping yourself alot of HP but making alot of torque to have fun with down low. But remember HP makes a faster car. With TPI, go as big on the base and runners you can because even tho the length is tuned for lower rpms, the diameter difference can help support more rpm because of more flow and bigger is better here. Siamesed is better still as it shortens runners.

ASE doc

Vega, my friend, I couldn't have said it any better. Our TPI beasts will not be the fastest cars at the track, but they are very fast and a blast to drive. And when we run against that GT500, then pop the hood revealing an 80s TPI, jaws will drop. I can just see guys crawling around my car looking for the hidden NOS bottle that just isn't there. LOL

BTW, Z28FAST1, I can imagine your LSX is very fast and I'm not making any comparisons against a motor like that. But My son's Ram Air is quite fast just like all of the LS1s that I see in my shop in Vettes and such. My son, being quite experienced in fast cars, estimates from driving both cars that my 355 makes 80-100HP more than his LS1. We're not talking a little faster. We're talking eating his lunch. That being said, I hope to get to Woodburn Drags this summer for a session of Friday night fun drags. Perhaps I'll run across an Ls1 car there and find out for sure how my 355TPI compares. Plus, I'll get some actual ETs and trap speeds.

Also, if you review my engine parts list(compressed as it is to fit in my sig), you'll see that it is nothing like stock. In fact the only stock piece is the factory roller block. This block is used in a carefully matched, balanced and blueprinted assembly, brought together in an effort to create the most powerful long tube runner TPI possible. In that quest I feel like I've done very well. The ZZX cam works so well with this package because it takes better advantage of the flow capabilities of the intake and excellent Twisted Wedge heads. I am fortunate to still have the TPIS catalog from 1999. It pictures Myron Cotrell of the Horsepower Farm. The mastermind, if you will, of TPIS. In this catalog is printed dyno results from a 350TPI with ported stock heads, big mouth base, TPIS large tube runners, and ZZX cam. This motor with crummy heads and 9.5:1 compression made 408HP at 6,200 rpm.

Z28FAST1

You WILL make 380-400rwhp? Where is the proof? You make it seem like it's the standard to make this kind of power but I think only 5-10% of the builds actually reach that "potential"

Your proof is Burnout91 that made 400rwhp but only trapped 104-105 mph in the 1/4 mile.

Don't want to argue with you anymore, I'm just subscribing to see stock cube L98's dyno 400+rwhp and 11 second 1/4 mile times.



ASE, definitely not the type of build everyone could do with just a Summit catalog. Looks like you are ontop of your game, impressive stuff.

Burnout91

"Your proof is Burnout91 that made 400rwhp but only trapped 104-105 mph in the 1/4 mile. "

It's only 397rwhp, and only 106mph. What's your point?

I don't know (or care) if your LS is stock cubes or not, but where is your 11 sec. time slip? Maybe with more displacement and forced induction? I thought all LS motored cars were low 12's cars, and what about those "cam ohnnnly" 10 sec. LS's....

Saw a stroker LS ThirdGen run 12.7 once (the owner of that car had a lot of character, however).

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

And checking out Bill's Dyno graph, we notice that it's dumping too much fuel at the hit of the throttle. The A/F is at low 11.x at the hit. It was Kevin first time tuning a HSR and also Miniram. He's going back to the Dyno too. We are still in the learning phase. So chill out.

Z28FAST1

Point = HP doesn't match up with the trap speed, that's all.

I never brought up my LSx for comparison, just interested in high HP TPI's dynos and 1/4 mile times.

Still in the learning phase? The L98 has been out for 2 decades+?

I'm chill. I'll refrain from posting and just sit back and watch the dynos and timeslips instead of arguing about potential/theory.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You arent arguing anything... you are just failing to understand things.
Its not a hard concept. Not a personal attack, but if you are clueless and dont understand how to build engines, then nothing I will do or say will change that. If you have a narrow mind, you wont believe 400whp is possible on stock bottom ends with heads/cam/intake. Fact is, it is possible. Not everyone does this to their cars. Not everyone likes a big cammed high rpm motor for the street.

LT1's are in the same boat. Their shortblocks arent super built either but they come with abit bigger cam, abit better flowing head, and abit more compression and abit better intake suitable for higher rpm power. They dyno 275-300whp with simple mods. Add ported heads and cam with ported stock intake, MANY guys have hit 380-420whp depending on the level of porting and cam size as well as auto vs manual trans....etc etc. If you do the research, you will find the results

Burnout made the power, there was no mention here that it had to run a set number at the track. The cali guys have run in hotter air temps which forces DA higher than alot of other places. GTAMatt had 370's whp on his stock bottom end L98, with heads/cam/miniram intake swap and it ran high 11's at 114. Many years ago Traxxion had a big cammed miniram L98 with some sort of aftermarket heads and went mid high 11's as well, probably 10 years ago now. Different location, better air quality and a car setup to run well at the track helps. 400whp doesnt run the same from place to place, car to car.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

You an I are local boys. I told you awhile back what I was going to do to my car when I get a chance. So you got heads up anytime and bring a video camera. I beat you once an I know I can do it again with less HP than you.

Z28FAST1

Being closed minded is one thing, being a rational is another. I'm not saying it's impossible just saying its not common at all.

You can sit here an hypothesize about possibilities all you want(aka ri cer math) but getting actual results is a whole different ball game. I figured if it's been done, this would be the place to find actual results not theories on engine building which you seem to have mastered.


Vince, chill out? PM if serious.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I havent mastered anything but I have given you some of the results that have proven this to work. Its NOT common since MOST builds are not on that level. To be honest, less money is thrown into thirdgens than some of the other types of cars out there. Thats why you dont see many stout builds here.

If you go to the Corvette forum you will find more examples of some serious EFI sbc's but even those guys get conservative. Not everyone needs/wants a 400+whp animal. Its a powerful setup to say the least. I know from my own personal 383 which actually disappointed me on dyno numbers but track times it ran what it should have run. It was quite a ride and might be too much for most guys.

But you wont find the big hp builds in TPI threads.... Box stock TPI's just dont make high rpm hp which is what you need to meet big numbers. Now the few that have extensively modded TPI's are way outside the norm. Not many even know its possible to cut and weld the base up and to make custom large diameter siamesed runner sets to allow bigger motors to pull rpm.

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

Not exactly sure what the argument is here. Is it about getting 400 hp out of a stock long block? Is it about a LTR vs. a short runner intake? Its really not that hard to run low 12's. I learned almost everything I know about these cars by reading threads here and learning from people who have actually done the things I want to do. Its really not that hard to go fast with one of these things. Treat is a a simple SBC, nothing more. Air in, air out. Take ANY good 190-200 head, AFR, trick flow, edelbrock e-tec, and stick a moderate size cam, 220 or greater duration and .550 or greater lift. Decent headers, injectors and torque converter, run low 12's. Its really that simple. Wanna go faster? Get a miniram, HSR, Victor efi, or even a big tube runner and ported base tpi setup. Want better streetability? Get a 215 or lower duration cam and give up just a bit of power. I don't see what the argument is.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

woooo.... This is the best thing anyone has ever said... this is very true... add a t56 6 speed to your 350 tpi and you will be more than happy on the street... i have went away with numbers and tryna be super fast awhile back and just want a fun ride....

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Do you guys have a spreadsheet of the work, all parts and estimated cost of labor on these high hp tpi builds ?

The OP is concern to See "If The Money Is Well Worth Being Spent" i know he was interested in a lt1 or ls1 swap. but i think thats why he is here, investing in the tpi build and then comparing the results to similar tpi builds.

offtopic: vincent whats the progress on your new build? new cam, heads and intake?
and do you think you couldve improved the results on your old superram rather than ditching it for the miniram?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Just head work. Waiting on one exhaust valve.

It's hard to say with the SR. The manifold needed more welding. The Miniram was free so I couldn't pass it up. Besides, I always wanted a Miniram since 1995. It's a whole lot easier to work on.

Once I get it dial in the off to the track. Hopely some high to mid 11's@ 117-120mph. It should peak HP at 6400-6600.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I think the one thing that is missing in this whole thread is the fact that about 90% of all engines US and Imports, are all using some form of "tuned intake runner system", the only one branded with the title "T P I " was the model created by GM from '85 to '91 'vettes and '85 to '92 F-bodies.

So, like the man said, what is the argument about?

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Now you know Z28Fast1 likes to sir up mess.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

what happened to the valve?
so one month you stuck with the ported SR and did pretty well. and months later you decided to go with a new intake? because it just needed "more" welding?

is this something the op can do with out breaking the piggy bank?
any spreadsheets of estimate cost of a build like yours or similar. or this a confidential topic.?

op wants a fast street car and wants to be satisfied with the money being spent; so data on $$ figures on the work is required. such as

good internals, machine work on block, stealthy cam, supporting mods, proper valvetrain, fabrication work on top of the price of a aftermarket intake , additional head porting work on the aftermarket heads, modifying headers, remaining of exhaust work, proper transmission, dyno time, and tuning etc.majority convert from maf to sd.
also how much is a decent price to rework on the dual tpi air intake with larger inlet and adding material to raise the opening overall.

also who else tunes besides kevin? when i built my 355 forged tpi motor i had a hard time finding a tuner. well a tuner that can schedule me within two weeks and set my car on a dyno .

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

You can't build anything today without breaking the piggy bank!
That's just the way it is, with prices the way they are.

Nothing wrong with getting your own equipment and doing the tuning yourself, Kevin even offered to teach others.

There are no secrets to what has been done, it has been shared all over these sites.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Dude you have to remember that even though you can make more power with an LSX, some people still would like to make the most power with the TPI. It's just their preference. Besides its less headache staying with what came in the car. Every one wants to do their own thing no matter what the cost is.

In your case when your car was a TPI, you never gave yourself a chance to try to figure out what's makes a TPI work. You bailed and went with the LS1. This was your choice. As long you are happy with it, cool. Not mad at ya! Just don't push the fact that LSX is the best way and only way to go to make power.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Op wants to know how to invest his money into the tpi rather than ditching it . I've had spent a good amount $$ on my old tpi build . I needed aftermarket intake system , and better flowing heads, better headers and locating a tuner with a Dyno with the right time frame.
in my situation
it wouldve cost me about 1k for a good porting program for after market heads on top of the *manufacture price ($xxxx) of the heads and about 700+ on the servicing/labor on the intake on top of the *intake price ($xxx) etc etc

So a spreadsheet would come in handy to get him going and plan out his build . Yes he's going to spend some good money but that's the sport , but all you guys know how much has to be spent, give a rough figure over all *parts n labor , don't avoid it .

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

But all that matters is thAt op is satisfied with the final outcome even if he had to break a piggy bank .

Now comparing that me and you Vince are local and on the same performance *level although my car isn't pushing 400rwhp but just a simple drop in. I am very satisfied with the outcome without breaking my piggy bank, and thank you for the challenge last may. Good mph run huh?

Op can also consider a lt1 build . Or finding a deal on a modified lt1 intake For the l98 (probably cheaper)

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Say you give us a spear sheet on how much would it cost to rebuild a LSX engine with aftermarket or fully ported stock heads, cam, intake and headers. Let's compare!

yaj15

iTrader: (3)

I agree with that. Some people like the LSX style motors. Some like TPI style. I like TPI so thats what I am sticking with. If you like LSX motors by all means modify your car with an LSX style engine. You just can't put down someone else who has different goals than you and wants to do things their way.

You purchased your car and are free to do with it what you want. Even with the newer LS style motors there have been a lot of improvments made between the LS1 (which came out in the '97 Corvette) and the LS9. So you could start an argument just sticking with LS style motors on which one is better.

Just be glad we live in a free country where you still can get a car with rear-wheel drive and a loud bad *** V8 engine. No matter what kind of engine you like (Gen 1 - Gen 4 or even the soon to be released Gen 5) the small block Chevrolet is one of the best engines built period. These engines and our cars can be built from mild to wild and embrass a lot of other countries around the world in terms of performance.

If I have a new ZR1 I can take it down to the GM dealer and gets parts for it. If I have a Ferrari or something like that, you just can't go down to the dealer (or one of the many online speed parts shops) and get parts for it.

New and old school engine guys will always fight. Ha ha you should keep your mind focused on the real goal! Keep Ford's in the rear view mirror! Any day you can put a Ford in the review mirror with an old or new school motor is a good day ha ha!

ASE doc

LOL. These discussions always seem to turn into a strained debate over new vs. old technology. And even that isn't totally accurate since many of our builds benefit from the latest developments in cylinder heads and camshafts, etc. Im sorry for comparing my 355 to my son's LS1. I was just making a point that my car from 87 can run with a car from 02. t really means nothing, comparing a factory stock engine with a few bolt on mods to a completely re-engineered high performance engine.

As far as factory offerings go, yaj is right. The horsepower war is alive and raging at the OE level. The engines will continue to get hotter and the cars faster. When I built my car in 99, I was confident that it was faster than anything offered by the OE, aside perhaps from the Viper. Today, I know it is behind the pack with cars like the ZR1 and today's Viper on the road. I admit I get caught up in wanting to be the fastest. I can sometimes abuse my beautiful car burning the tires to show off what I have. What I really need to do is listen to my wife and just enjoy what I have created for what it means to me. Others don't have to love and it doesn't need to be the fastest to be an excellent, incredibly fun, car that I built with my own hands. (I'm still gonna build that 620HP motor though, dog on it)

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Huh ? This is going off topic .
All I brought up is supplying op with an estimate cost value of parts and labor .. Spreadsheet of a build like vincet etc So op can take it into consideration. People here are taking it personal.

Vincent If you want to compare our individual builds that's fine .
I'm not at that level were internal parts have even been touched but If ur interested can supply you with it and I can post it on the ltx/lsx section .
But my

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Huh ? This is going off topic .
All I brought up is supplying op with an estimate cost value of parts and labor .. Spreadsheet of a build like vincet etc So op can take it into consideration. People here are taking it personal.

Vincent If you want to compare our individual builds that's fine .
I'm not at that level were internal parts have even been touched but If ur interested I can supply you with it and I can post it on the ltx/lsx section * it doesn't belong in this thread.
Plus you underestimated it and it Ended up impressing you .

But my complete long block with wiring and clutch was less than the cost of Just ur heads and intake with out the additional servicing that you have spent. So gives you an idea.

I'm not here to compare new vs old . I wanna know and help op be informed of the est cost of the typical 400rwhp tpi 3G car that are found here in so cal. (which is very helpful) This is why people log on to Tgo.

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

You don't need a spread sheet to figure out what its going to cost. Go to Jegs web sight, pick a set of cylinder heads you want, click "add to cart". Pick a cam you want, click "add to cart". You see where I'm going with this? Do the same thing for rocker arms, gaskets, headers, head bolts, etc. When you're done, click "view cart". It'll give you a total down at the bottom! No spread sheet required

After you get done with that you can price shop since you now have part numbers. Used parts can usually be had for $.50 on the dollar.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Lol ^^
Just what we are all looking for

ASE doc

I think Dyno Don already said it. But I'll quote an old saying that rings very true. "speed is money, how fast do you want to go". You can build cheap power. I think Orr already said it, and I've proven it in a number of bargain builds, that ported and upgraded stock heads, ported base and plenum, cam upgrade and headers can net an easy 100HP from a stock 350TPI. Switch to high flow base and runners, Miniram or SR and the power increase jumps to 150+. The price tag of this type of build would be the price of a used high flow base and runners or miniram/SR, a cam and headers and some cyl head upgrades. How long would this motor last? That's a different story. To build a high performance motor that maximizes TPI potential and that will hold up over time is expensive. I probably have about $11,000 invested in motor, fuel system and tunable EFI system( Dynamic EFI and Tunerpro weren't around when I built this car) and I did all but the engine machining myself. Add to this the cost(about $2,200 with converter) of a transmission that will stand up behind this motor.

Also, I hope no one tries to run this kind of power on a stock 20 some year old suspension and steering gear. The upgrades to my chassis, suspension and steering system were another $3,500. Then there is the $1,850 brake package I just finally installed last year after way too many close calls running this power on stock 3rd gen brakes. Total invested in everything to make this car what it is today, about $30,000 with all work done by me. Having all of this done professionally, about $50,000.

BTW, I started my parts list from the Summit catalog and TPIS. I also used Popular Hot Rodding magazine as a resource for finding parts. Today, you have thirdgen.org to go to for parts searching and information. I didn't have that back when I built my car. Also, both JEG's and Summit are online today, along with TPIS, Holley, Comp Cams, etc., making parts searching and pricing much easier.

Z28FAST1

Appreciate the honest answer. They don't call them money pits for nothing. However, the look on people's face is priceless when you fly by their late model vette, mustang, dodge, porsche, etc in a 3rd gen


OP I can see $6+K just on parts alone for a higher mileage L98 shooting for 360-380rwhp:
Rebuilt kit + machining labor $600-800
Aftermarket heads assembled about $2000
Aftermarket Cam kit $500-600
Complete Aftermarket intake, plenum, TB, fuel rail about $2000
Fuel Injectors/Fuel pump, regulator $500-600
Misc(fittings, exhaust, rockers, tuning) $500+

Additional requirements for 360-380+rwhp
Extensive porting/modifying of heads? $800-1,000

Extensive porting/cutting/welding/modifying of plenum and intake? $800+

KingsHustleLA

So Why Do So Many LS 3rd Gen Guys Act Like Douche Bags? Some People Like To Keep It Original And Challenge Themselves To Better The TPI & Some People Would Prefer To Have An LS1 Because It's Newer Technology & Makes Power A Lot Easier But Bottom Line It's All GM. It's Not Like A V-Tec Or Ford Engine Is In A Camaro So These TPI Vs. LS Arguements Are Pretty Stupid. Just Saying

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

Let me know when you're ready to get started. Us together can figure out which way you want to go.

TPI TERR

iTrader: (9)

Op it's your car , no one is asking you to ditch the tpi. Your car your decision and your money it's a 3G and that's all that matters. I've seen ur current set up and looks clean being og.

We're all just trying to help you here . Yes its a challenge , I have just been curious about how much dough is being spent on these so cal high hp cars.