PurpleG20305TPI

So i swapped a 91 camaro 305 tpi into my g20 chevy van. i sprained my thumb during the swap and didnt work on it for like 6 months.

Anyway, i finally got it all wired up, exhaust up, timing semi correct(trying to lock it down if i can get it to idle) It starts right up but instantly dies unless i give it steady gas. As soon as i let off, it instantly dies. Any ideas?

Fuel pressure is correct, recent tune up with plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pick up coil, air filter.

Some things to know, i dont have the camaro charcoal canister, im using the G20 one, so that plug is not plugged in.

Once i got it running, the smog pump seized so i yanked it out and bought a 96.8" belt to reroute. so the smog equip is out except i havent crimped and welded the ONE line that goes into the exhaust manifolds.

Also, currently there isnt an electric fan connect to the wire harness. would this make the computer act weird. like does it need a signal?

What other things could possibly cause this? electrical, sensors, vacuum, any suggestions ill look into.

Thanks All

C-rays86

The idle control valve might be bad. mine went out not too long ago

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

You might want to double check your timing and iac wiring. You can test the iac signal with a iac noid. It may be a combination of things minimum air speed not adjusted properly and base timing not advanced enough.

PurpleG20305TPI

Thanks, ill look into that, but do you think it would cause absolutely no idle what so ever?
as soon as i take my foot off the peddle, it dies, but while its still winding down, i can crank it again and give it gas and it will run. BUT GAS MUST BE APPLIED. the second you let off, the motor cuts out, you cant give it gas unless you crank it again.

Does these odd characteristics mean anything to anyone?

PurpleG20305TPI

Im still at base timing. ive been working on resetting the base until it was able to start up with a quick twist of the key. then it instantly dies.

i think i should def check the wiring on the 4 iac wires. im 95% possitive that all wiring was done correctly and with solder and heat shrink.

PurpleG20305TPI

Does it matter that i dont have the TCC wire connected and the canister purge plug connected?

also i dont have the fans plugged in and not sure on some of the a/c wires because my van uses a sepereate harness to control the heat and a/c. does the ecu need to know about the fans and a/c readings?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The tcc and ccp solenoid will not effect the idle. You should hook up the a/c hot side of the compressor or pressure cycle switch to pin c9 of the 730 ecm. The ecm will ad to the idle speed for the a/c load on the engine. Your park neutral switch as I described in your previous thread is also a rpm idle adder when grounded.

PurpleG20305TPI

The a/c compressor has its original plugs from the tpi harness except i spliced in the green wire from the the vans harness too.

I just went out to dick with it, but apparently last night when i was working on it and trying to get it to stay running, the coil died. i didnt realize last night because the battery died so thats why i thought it stopped firing. recharged the battery and am not getting spark. checked the coil and its not putting anything out.

I have to go through all my wiring and refresh my memory on where everything goes. where is the park neutral supposed to go to, behind the dash? i know its D16 org/blk at the ecm, but what should it connect to?

thanks

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

did the van have a park neutral switch on the column ?

PurpleG20305TPI

Honestly, i havent checked the schematics in like 3 months so im not quite sure where it comes out. BUT if it is at the column, all i would do is trace the D16 o/b wire and splice into the p/n?

Im gonna look for schematics cuz my mess of papers are outside and its raining/snowing pretty shitty.

Also, i know ive emphasized it a lot in this thread, but when i go to start it, it doesnt even attempt to idle. if i let off that key or gas, it instantly shuts down. so its either a quick turn of the key and vroom, or turn the key, press the gas slightly and vroooooooom, if i fluctuate the peddle but let the throttle completely close, it will instantly die. are these symptoms direct to anything you can think of?

Also, i have a 10k resistor and i think like 3.7k to set in aldl diog mode, to bypass sensors and knock. tried em but cant notice a difference.
Im not getting any codes apparently when i jump A&B at aldl plug. it blink 12 constantly.
makes me wonder if my ses light is properly connected to the ecm wiring.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

your right on the wiring for the p/n switch when in park and neutral the switch grounds. Jumping a to be will cause the code 12 to blink as well. The 730 does not need a 10k or any resister to enable the data stream. The aldl wiring may have the serial in E 160 baud from your old ecm but the 730 will transmit out the 8192 pin M of the aldl.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

If you have no spark start with the key on and check power to the coil on the pink wire on the grey connector of the coil. The power will go from the coil to power the icm on the jumper wire and the color remains pink.

PurpleG20305TPI

i thought after it blinked 12 a couple times, its supposed to blink the codes that are stored?
i didnt quite understand the rest because im not using any scanner or anything. i have added as many aldl pins as possible to get it scannable or to data streaming, but im not that far into figuring out.
Ill ensure the P/N is correctly wired, also replace the coil.
How should i test the IAC wires to ensure its all proper?
Thanks
Dean

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

since your charging system and or battery was messing up last night that will greatly effect idle and injector pulse width if you do have low voltage you may get a idle but it might be lopey.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The aldl a is a ground and b is diagnostic terminal. when the diagnostic terminal is grounded so jumping a to b the ecm goes into field service mode. With the engine not running fiels service mode will ground the check engine light to blink the ecm codes. code 12 will blink 3 times if any other codes are stored they will be after the code 12. Code 12 means the ecm is not receiving a distributor reference witch is normal with the engine not running.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Some ECM PCM may have differant wire colors. Check your wiring diagram. Letters A B C D will be on IAC. A B will show but have to remove plastic clip holding wire pins in to see C D.

Blue wire white stripe to A on IAC connector.
Blue wire black stripe to B on IAC connector.
Green wire white stripe to C on IAC connector.
Green wire black stripe to D on IAC connector.

Use a jumper wire to cross A and B on ALDL diagnostic port!

Then use an OHM meter and check between A and B? Should be greater than 20 OHMS. Check OHMS between C and D should be greater than 20 OHMS? If not replace IAC.

Diagnostic procedure says to use test light and all termianls should light... but I do not have one other than 12 volt. They are refering to a test light that will light for any voltage. So I used a DMM (Digatal Multi Meter).

Testing wires from harness to IAC connector.
A should be about .5 volts.
B should be about 12 volts or batterey voltage
C should be about 12 volts or batterey voltage.
D should be about .5 volts.

If not check wires are connected to proper pin at ECM. Then check wire for break by connecting ohm meter to each end of wire for continuity. If all wires are OK and all wires are connected to proper pins on ECM? Replace ECM.

this test was provided bye user EagleMark

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

if you listed closely if you have the key on you can hear the iac being commanded in when you jumper the aldl. It would be to much of a reach to feel the iac but if you had a helper turn the key or feel the iac/ iac housing you can feel the movement of the iac.

PurpleG20305TPI

AHHH, That makes sense.

As far as low battery, it happened over time from cranking. its completely charged now and checked all sensors that are 5v at grey. ill pick up a coil tomorrow after i do the check you suggested with pink wire. Any reason that the coil would just **** out?

PurpleG20305TPI

Thanks so much, ill do all the iac checks first thing tomorrow. it has crossed my mind that through out all of my wiring ventures, that the ecm could have gotten shot.
im gonna check all my wires and and readings, hopefully its just a miswire or a simple fix.
Thanks for all your help.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OTC-IDLE-AIR...torefresh=true

PurpleG20305TPI

i also found this that includes injector noid testers and iac tester.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-Pc-Electro...60963439801%26

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

That a good deal

PurpleG20305TPI

So im about to run through all the test and wires. im checking out the C207 plug thats normally behind the dash. heres a link http://www.austinthirdgen.org/mkport..._1992_C207.gif

Im not quite following where some wires actually go. it says "tuned port injection" but not a description of where it should be wired in. any advice?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I believe b and g are fused accessory power for injector banks

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

D should be the buffered speedometer signal.

PurpleG20305TPI

By fused, do you mean in line or box fuse? Also, B for one side of injectors and G for other? is that what you mean? and for D, the vss 4000kppm retrofit i bought, should connect to D?
Thanks.

PurpleG20305TPI

Also, Red P, does this go to Cruise control? if so, which wire does it splice into for 2000ppm? at the cc servo or under dash?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Just double check with. Ohm meter that those wires goto the injectors. Bye fused I mean the need to have a 3amp fuse going to a switched ignition source. The retrofit vss you bought should have hooked in to the harness and goes directly to the ecm. The buffered 2k signal from the ecm is in pin c1. I don't have a schematic for your van so I don't know where that will go

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

If you post the service number of the old ecm I might be able to tell you what wire the cruise control is.

PurpleG20305TPI

so the cc wire would go to my vans wiring? not to the servo connected to the motor? all the motor and accessory wiring is from the 91 camaro. the main harness wires were extended and connected to my vans fuse block. also the c207 wires were extended to the vans block or the motors sensors and parts.

i dont have the vans old ecm, sold it with the motor. i do have my vans wiring schematics that i could link you. ill check em out and post which one i think it is.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Do you have the servo fro the donor tpi car that's remote mounted ?

PurpleG20305TPI

servo for my van

PurpleG20305TPI

is the servo the actuator mounted on the motor that pulls the throttle? sorry, i get some electronic names confused.

PurpleG20305TPI

do you know which wire to tap the red wire into? thats my van diagram. should i splice into cc module or servo?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The schematic is not real clear I think the vss was cable driven behind your dash then the optical signal out. If that's the case you don't need to hook anything up from the 730 ecm your set already unless you have ripped out that wiring.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Yes the servo is the one that pulls the throttle.

PurpleG20305TPI

yes the vss was cable driven, does that make it automatically optical signal out? is that similar to how a magneto works? like is it "seeing" rotation and converting to a signal for the ecm to interpret? "im just wondering for own personal knowledge. Thanks"

Im gonna get the voltage on the iac and check some things now that its cleared up outside. should be enough info to figure some things out. o, and i gotta check the coil pink wire to see if its sending a signal. if its not proper, does that mean the ecm is not putting out the signal and is bad?

PurpleG20305TPI

http://s1323.beta.photobucket.com/us...92161.gif.html

Is that clearer to show the servo wires and the CC module wires. zoom in if youre on a laptop the finger zooms.

PurpleG20305TPI

Ok, just did some test on the iac and plug, and also i replaced the coil but still am not getting spark.

For the iac:Ohms test A-B=48.2 C-D=49.1
Voltage test at plug A,B,C,D All have 6.2volts.

Now you had said that for the volts test A&D should be 5v and B&C should be 12v. Any opinion on what i have? I havent raced the wires yet, it got dark.

For the coil, i put a new one in and still no spark. i get 12.3v on the coil poll with ign on and i get 9.2v during cranking at poll.

I checked the plugs and found that on the plug closest to the front of the car, its grey, has a pink and white wire that has a quick connect. I tested ohms between the two wires and got20-24 ohms but mostly steady at 20. Does that mean anything? I didnt get any reading from the other plug.

PurpleG20305TPI

PurpleG20305TPI

i wonder if my new pickup coil cracked or sh itt the bed?! would that not transfer the spark around?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Sorry I'm on dial up for the weekend so I'm not to much help. It does sound like a pickup coil or icm went south. On checking the iac did you have the aldl a to b jumpered ?

PurpleG20305TPI

Yes i did have the aldl jumped. im gonna trace the wires today and ensure that they are connected at the right spot.

is the icm the double plug that at the base of the distributor? im thinking of just getting a reman dizzy w/ lifetime from autozone. only 99$ but ill return the coil and pick up for a 60$ credit.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The icm is the piece on the distributor with 2 wires on one side and a 4 pin connector next to it

PurpleG20305TPI

switched out my icm and got spark now. still same idle issue. heres a vid.
http://s1323.beta.photobucket.com/us...9ef55.mp4.html

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

i can't watch the video on dialup but on monday if you want me to send you a ecm i will loan you one for just the shipping cost. if it fixes it and you want to purchase it fine if not just ship it back.

PurpleG20305TPI

o yeah, forgot you had dial up this weekend. im gonna go through all my wiring first and ill let you know if ill need that. thanks a bunch.

any idea on the iac voltage being 6.2v across the board?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

That reading doesnt sound right. I have a test bench setup for the 730 ecm and will post my results on monday. You might pm eaglemark and ask his experience. Sounds like the ecm is bad sticking the iac in a closed position.

PurpleG20305TPI

What type of results does a test bench setup give? whether the ecm is no good?

does seem like the ecm isnt working correctly. i would imagine for the iac that having 6v on all 4 pins indicates that theres no control. its just always a constant voltage so how could it manage air going in to idle? (rhetorical question)

EagleMark

If you keep the key in crank position does it keep running?
Yes! Wiring issue.
No? Open throttle blade 1/4 turn.

Set the timing before you do any more tests.

IAC plug disconnected and engine on should get steady or flashing test light on all four wires.

IAC valve test A to B and C to D should be above 20 ohms.

I've found a few IAC valves lately that are stripped, IAC counts move in data and pintle does not.