fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

that's some cool **** lol

if I venture into race gas I'll probably be hitting 25-26#s or so tee-hee

Doward

You wouldn't mean this one, would ya?

http://www.illz.net/E46_M3_VS_Eclipse_GSX.wmv

And the aftermath...

http://sys12.cs.jmu.edu/hawleycj/vids/aftermath.wmv


buwahahaahah!! :lala: :hail:

TechSmurf

Uhm.. Doward.. the BOV should be on the boosted portion of the intake, near the throttle body. The MAF, from everything I can tell, should be on the other side of the freakin turbo, much less behind the BOV. If you leave the MAF on the boosted side (may the heavens smile upon your MAF and let it live) don't forget to relocate the IAT/MAT sensor to the boosted side too.. also being on whichever side of the intercooler the MAF is on. Remember our MAF sensors are heated-element types.. and turbos create heated air. I believe this combination is likely to cause horrible MAF readings.

EDIT: Well here I am two years later re-reading this to link it to a ReadMe... can't believe I posted misinformation in desperate need of correction. 2.8s use frequency film MAFs, not hot wire. Hot-wire MAFs work fine in charged air streams.... frequency film MAFs *do not*... so.. sorry folks, still no MAF on the charged side.

TechSmurf

Also, Doward, could you post your findings on the exhaust? I'm still working on theoreticals, but so far I'm still looking at having to build a passenger's side manifold. Planning to wrap the driver's side around the back of the motor not unlike the way the stock Y-pipe is set up, and plumbing it straight into the custom manifold on the passenger's side, with a flange directly up front..

EDIT -----

Rather than adding a third post, I would have to say that even though those two videos are huge, EVERYONE who is adding power to their cars and racing them NEEDS to download both, in their entirety, and understand exactly what you risk every time you open that throttle up. Is this stopping me? No.. this is just why I've been saying I'm only running 4 psi till I can afford to build a motor designed to handle a turbo. That's a HUGE piece of block. I like the documentary style they did it in

Doward

6-8psi, intercooled, will be no problem with the stock 8.9:1 cr. After I bowl blend the heads, I'll even drop that stock cr a tad. It's all in the timing

As for the exhaust, difficult as hell to explain. I'll just have to post pics when its done. You guys will see I pulled my smog pump for a reason

All the turbo MAF setups I've seen have the MAF blown through. I think I'm going to go this route -

Air Intake - Turbo - Intercooler - MAF - BOV - Throttle Body.

The turbo is an integral wastegate design, and I'll run about 7psi stock.

Exhaust is going to be totally custom. 3" downpipe to a 3" I pipe, into a Hooker Aerochamber, with dual 2.5" tips into Borla Intercooled 2.5" into dual 3" tips.

Should be cool looking. :hail:

Nixon1

Doward...that's the video!!!! I can't imagine trying to run boost through an MAF....I'd expect that to fail pretty quick! Might be better off getting an MAF to SD conversion setup...but....that's more money I'm sure you don't wanna spend!

TechSmurf

My understanding of the speed density we have is it doesn't react to intake manifold pressures in excess of 1 bar.. i.e. it just won't work.. or it might with a very quick-to-react super-nifty highly-adjustable boost-sensitive fuel pressure regulator and a hopped-up fuel pump (to the tune of 2-3 psi fuel per psi boost)

Speed Density is not a performance setup.. it measures intake vacuum and assumes based on math how much air is going into the engine. MAF measures air directly, and is THE reason and the ONLY reason you can sling a paxton off the front of that mustang of yours in about 8 hours, Nixon

Also, most boosted MAF cars have solid aluminum MAF housings, and many use a vane-type MAF system.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

A few things here...as far the speed density issue, you have me there, I don't know enough about them but you can ditch the 1-bar and get a 3-bar MAP sensor

as far as the MAF issue, the GN and TTA's use a draw through setup, meaning the MAF is BEFORE the turbo. Will the MAF last as a blow-through setup? Well I dont know, that plastic housing isn't that strong. The GN and TTA guys are starting to(at least a few have) made modifications to make their intake setup blow through but most of us use LT1 or LS1 MAF's which are built like brick ****houses...


As for the MAF not reading the air too well in the blowthrough setup the few turbobuick guys that have done it said they haven't seen any drawbacks yet...the only thing that would/will suck is if an oil seal on the turbo goes..it would cover the MAF internals with oil

TomP

Oh that sucks; I can't see the second video. Is that server down or something? The first one was funny as hell- "My parents are going to be so pissed" Haha! That M3 must've pissed his pants when he saw that happen!

Nixon1

Tom....the 2nd video IS pretty damn long....maybe 5 mins.... And man..you should've seen. Not only did the connecting rod rip off the crank, and the piston rip off the other end, but the rod, if I remember right, is actually bent. That thing wasn't just blown...it was DESTROYED. And if I was in that M3...I would've pissed my pants too...

Doward

Never thought of that... I really wouldn't want that!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

yeah but that's the chance you take...from what I'm reading on turbobuick is that the throttle response is much better with the relocted MAF...I'll see what I can dig up for you...it might help in your decision

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

MAF Relocation

Basically don't do it...what I said in an earlier reply will be true...the plastic MAF housing will not hold under boost. It's a shame too because a lot of people are having sucess with it

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

pics and info on the setup


Pretty slick setup if you ask me. That's on a GN(obviously lol). I'm probably going to do that to the TTA motor in my GTA while the motor is out

TechSmurf

Hmm.. so the question is, where can we v6 guys get ahold of a good maf that's compatable with our electronics? I'll personally deal with the sluggish throttle response for now.. in theory anyway. If it's truly horrible I'll doubletime my efforts to figure this situation out for myself and those of us who are crazy enough to do this (and have friends with turbos laying around)

Doward

Yeah... don't forget the 255 limit of the MAF, too. The GN guys can run up to 510, I believe.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

there is the problem, there isn't...

Us turbobuick guys have a part available to us that's called a Translator and an Extender chip. The Translator allows us to run a LT1 or LS1 MAF since the stock MAFs were discontinued years ago. Like I said before the LT1 and LS1 MAFs are built like brick ****houses. Now we used to have that 255 limit in the MAF/ECM too but the Extender Chip when used with the Translator doubles that :

Mike from Ramchargers(the company that makes the translator and chip) WAS thinking about doing it for the TPI guys, not sure if that idea when belly up or not

TechSmurf

255 limit? ... please don't tell me that's cfm. =\

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

LOL, no 255 g/sec...that's how the ECM reads the MAF reading..once you max that out the ECM can't compensate for the extra airflow...a supercharged or turbo setup maxes out that limit quickly..

TechSmurf

thank ***.. I was starting to ponder how the GN ran at all if it was a 255 cfm read limit... and the 2.8s would nearly break that limit NA... yeesh.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

without that chip they will still hit that barrier, and no most 2.8's won't hit that N/A, trust me..

Doward

255 cfm, they might.

255 g/s, they won't. Not NA anyway!

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

exactly

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Couple of interesting points: Bruce (in linked GN articles) has since eliminated the MAF and has gone to a SD setup w/a 3-bar MAP. Both driveability and fuel control has improved.

Once a MAF is max'd fuel is added via the PE mode. Not the best way to go but does work. The biggest dodo area with a MAF is plumbing it. Not only is it a pain but you also need to take care of the entrance into the MAF.

Can always swap in a '749 or '730 and run the $58 mask (sy/ty code). Stock handles up to 14.7 psi of boost. A code patch will handle up to 30 psi of boost.

RBob.

1991rsmax

ok here we go...
http://www.skulte.com/turbo.html
:lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :lala: :rockon:

1991rsmax

http://www.skulte.com/other.html

knighthelm

can someone repost 1st vid i would love to see it, the 2nd was scary man the block was mising big pieces and the piston was shattered i would love to see it happen

Nixon1

Not much to it. Guy being an idiot, pulling up next to an M3. Bounces the car off a rev limiter for a good 5 seconds or more.....launches it FROM the limit...shifts into 2nd...well ahead of the guy...shifts to 3rd.....and the funny noises ensue. The sound of dozens of small pieces of metal flying everywhere and tapping and pinging against things. Such a great video. I love morons.

SC2camaro

hey guys

i hope the twin/single turbo works out for ya. I just don't think that the crank will stand up to the Hp/ torque increase.

Doward

Sure it will!

FyreLance

I'll second this, the first vid doesn't work, I want to see it...

SSC

BTT


I was going through the web and came across somthing on the banks site and found a thread on some guy who has a twin turbo 3.1 firebird (3rd gen) I'll post the link when I find it again. Someone here needs to convince the site to give them this guys email so we can get him over this way.

90RS305

Guys, I really admire the fact that you seem to be so determined to do this TTV6 thing, but I just have one small question about that...
Why, when you can get SOO much more power out of turboing a 305 or a 350 for from what I've seen a lot cheaper and easier would you still want to sup up the V6? Maybe I missed something, and I guess it's not really my place to say (I don't even know why I decided to look around in the V6 area) but yeah, a turbo 5.0L would roast a turbo 2.8L. Just my $.02, not here to start a war...

Y2KFirehawk

I'd like to see the first video too!

funstick

first things first. there are a few companies out there that make FQ based MAFs for GN's. those MAFS work on the 302 ecm in the car.
secondly the stock system is far from being maxed out. the most bad assed 3.1 ive seen pulls like 140grs/sec that leave a good ibt of overhead in the system for more airflow.

if you need assitance in aquring MAF's etc just toss me an email. i can get them as large as you would ever need. 5 inch ?? i can get them.


thats not even funny. have you ever looked inside a translator ?? thing is a pile of junk. as for the TPI mafs no need. theres already one on the market.

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

well considering I have one, yeah I have...works fine for me and along with all the other GN guys running it...who cares what it looks like, the thing works just fine..allows you to change fuel and spark curves....what more do you want? Guys that are in the 10's are still using the box...that's enough for me...but then again what do I know

I find it funny, the product is being **** on..yet...where is it for TPI? OHHHH YEAH thats right..if someone took the time to R&D it people would bitch that it's too much $$$ like every other TPI product...hmmm...guess that's why they're mostly slow until it goes bye bye for a mini ram or stealthram :sillylol:

Doward

Simple...

TT 350 has been done.

Turbo 2.8 has not been.

Besides... you smoke a 2.8 with a 350, big deal. Smoke a 350 with a 2.8, and people talk

Y2KFirehawk

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the gas mileage would be better as well..... And there would always be the when you pop your hood

AGood2.8

Heck, I get the look when I pop the hood right now
(its more like- wheres the motor )

Doward

Pics?

Nixon1

Muahaha....reminds me of the old days. I took a friend or two for a 'spin around the block' in the Camaro. Used my good old trick, which is to keep it to really short, confined sprints up to about 30 mph...all first gear material. Using that low-end torque and gearing to my advantage.. I got out and popped the hood..... I believe my friend Mike's words were " this......did that???" Mmmhmm.

Doward

Got Carlos' computer from him finally! It's all fixed! 14B Mitsu and intercooler on the way... try to have pics within a couple days :hail: :hail:

Doward

Doward

TD05H - 14B, I believe. Anyone ID it?

Doward

ID

Y2KFirehawk

I posted misinformation! I aplologize! I got antsy in my pantsy!

Doward

That's for the Godzilla upgraded TD05.

The Stock 14b I have will flow 405 cfm. 8-10psi boost on the 2.8, at 5400 rpm or so.

F585

:hail:

Y2KFirehawk

Sweet!!! How much power would you be looking at with that intercooled setup?

Doward

8 psi is about a 54% increase in airflow.

so about 50% more power over the stock 135hp.

I hope to push about 200 to the rear wheels.

With a race weight around 3150, that's mid 14's on the mighty 2.8L :lala: