Crux

By the way..what do you all think about the disclaimer on this site:
http://www.rebuilt-auto-engines.com/...02108430383.4a

???
It's saying that I shouldn't buy a reman. 3.4?

The place sells a 2.8 w/ heads for just over $1,000 but..it'd be a waste to go with the 2.8 and I doubt I'd be satisfied.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

A reman/rebuilt is typically just honed. The 3.4 is also a very beefy block, so there's no worries.

I remove the the UIM/MIM, leaving just the LIM. I then use a leveler on a hoist, putting the chains on the front and back of each head.

I've never had a problem with jack stands on gravel. A ~3000lb vehicle will set the jack stands pretty well. I doubt it's going anywhere. Just raise up the front and you'll do fine.

I recommend installing the heads before dropping the engine back in. Much easier to torque the heads with the engine out.

If your tank has rust in it, replace it now. It's not terribly difficult, from what I hear. Look up threads on replacing the fuel pump(many people pull the tank to do it) as well as replacing gas tank. Don't search just in the v6 forum; you won't get many results. It's a general f-body question. Make sure to replace the fuel filter, and inspect the fuel pump for damage from rust. I'd also hook an air compressor up to the fuel lines(with both ends of the line disconnected) and blow air through to make sure there's no rust or dirt in there.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

On the s10 2.8's... The coil bracket has a hook for a chain. And then on the left head, up front it has the same 2 bolt holes... it has a bracket bolted there for hoisting an engine.

The ones in camaros dont have these brackets(could go get them from an s10 if you wish). But what you could do is thread some long bolts thru the hoist chain, and into them spots, put some large washers to make sure the chain wont wiggle off. Forget what threads they are, but its metric.

I always pulled/installed the motor with the upper 2/3's of the intake off. It always seemed to be in the way of the chain for me.

Tip, when moving motor in/out. Have the REAR of the car hoisted as high as you can get it. Easier to stab/bolt the trans, as well make it over the front core support. Once the trans is bolted. You can lower the rear a bit. And then you will have to jack up/push up on the tail of the trans to help the front motor mounts go in place.

Crux

Update:
I got the radiator out, the lower intake plenum(&fuel rail) out, coolant out, accessories off.
It felt like more...but I suppose it's not.
Anyway, the engine's pretty much ready to take out. I labeled everything.

Here's something interesting...my power steering pump bracket was cracked and broke away pretty easily. I had no clue about this before hand.

The gas that came out of the fuel rail was rust coloured so that helped prove my point to my dad that I need a new gas tank. I'll go ahead and opt for a plastic one from a thirdgen.

I didn't get many pictures yet.
I'll be bringing the rest of the intake to a machine shop to get it cleaned out good.
I ordered the engine block and it'll sit in my house until I get all of the parts.
It turns out they quoted a price for the FWD one..the RWD was $805 plus some more for the core plus freight plus taxes and all-in-all it's like $1,100.

--------
The only notes I took...

Radiator:
Flathead screwdriver for hoses
14mm for transmission fluid cooler & oil cooler lines
10mm or upper radiator shield
When you actually *want* the car to fall apart, it doesn't.
5/16" for lower rad. hose clamp plus liquid wrench
BUY NEW LOWER RADIATOR HOSE CLAMP
Keep track of tools...spent over 10minutes looking for wrench & socket because it fell between the nose and the radiator in front of the radiator(?)

5/8" for fuel in/out on fuel rail.
-----------

The thing that took me the longest out of all of this was getting the drain plug out of the radiator to drain the coolant.

I don't have any really awesome pictures..mainly because they were taken at night.

Here's the engine and chaos all labeled. It looks messy but I've got it under control.


Some of the parts I decided to cover in a big tub..


More later..

Crux

Update:
Got the distributor out(to get it out of the way)
Got the intake manifolds off...only broke one bolt in one of the heads..it's fine, though. I'm getting new exhaust manifold bolts and heads anyway.
I still haven't taken the lower plenum to the machine shop yet..I'm avoiding spending money until I have that engine block.
I also took the bracket holding the ignition coil off. One of the bolts gave me trouble but I got it without breaking it.

All that's left to pull the engine are misc. electrical/sensor connectors, tranny bolts, and the bolts holding the engine down in there.
I'm not off of work again until wednesday.

Question:
Do they make aftermarket exhaust manifolds that'll bolt in and work with everything that's on the old ones?

Notes/Pictures:
I took a few pictures for reference.
No real notes...

Ya know..I was planning on documenting EVERYTHING so that even someone like me, who'd barely done ANY work on a vehicle before could do it..
but..it's common sense. It really is. For anything you don't know, just read/research.
Seriously, to the newbs out there, don't be nervous..it's nothing.
But DO be careful and pay close attention to details because apparently everything needs to be done perfectly for these things to work right.
One thing at a time.

Later all.

Crux

UPDATE:
I got the 3.4l block..man..that's a really small piece of metal for $1,136.
Merchandise: $805
Cores: $135
Sales Tax: $ 91.65
Freight Out: $105

Plus $50 gas money for my mom's Blazer.
..totally worth it.

I'm considering buying my friend's 1999 Cavalier for around $500+ ...
so that I don't have to rely on anyone for a ride to work and I can live home with my car..
It'd make it take a little longer to work on my car but at least I wouldn't have to rush, then.

I'll have pictures of the block maybe tomorrow.

I'm wondering if I should just get my 3.4 injectors that I have reman'd or buy new ones..I need to save what I can.

Later all.
I'm still moving forward with this, and now I got one of the biggest parts.

Crux

Pictures of the block:

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Sure is pretty. Time to paint her up to look even better.

Crux

Haha yeah..it's pretty nice.
Small, but nice.

I wonder how much it'd cost to get it painted..I'm painting the engine bay black once everything's out.

I just bought a jack and some jackstands..so now I can finally finish getting the old engine out.

I love progress...but I never have enough money lol.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

The cost of rattle can 1200* paint from the parts store. Two cans to be good. When you fire it up, it'll smoke from the paint burning on, but it'll stop after an hour or so.

Crux

A red engine would look nice next to a black engine bay. It must be hell to cover up all of the openings on the block, though.

noahTHEpurdy

iTrader: (1)

Not really. Some blue painters masking tape and grocery bags and you're set. Trust me, it'll look hundreds of times better.

Crux

The project is on hold for the moment.

Why?

Because I can't jack the car. This is ****ing rediculous. The first time I come to a point where I feel that I "just can't do it" is jacking the car up. I mean..seriously. I've jacked up my friend's car to change his wheels...but mine, nooo..not that simple.
This whole project is on hold because I don't know how to jack up my own car.

I've read the posts and seen the diagrams here.
Framerails? They bend.
Crossmember? I can just fit the jack under there but I don't have enough room to move the bar to operate the jack.

If anyone would like to clarify this, pleeeassee do.
I don't feel this means that this swap is above my skill level..I've just hit a bump in the road.
I'm definitely wishing I had gotten the SFC's BEFORE I started the swap, now.

Again, thanks for ANY help.
I'm off of work today and tomorrow and then it's 13-15hour double-shifts until saturday x_x

EDIT: By the way..I changed my mind on painting the engine bay..but I'm still considering the block.

EDIT(2): In case you weren't following..I can't start the car because I have everything off to take the engine out. It wouldn't be a good idea to push it onto ramps because if it's moved forward too much I won't have room for the cherry picker.
Right now, I'm trying to jack it up to drain the oil and disconnect the transmission from the engine. I've got around 4 jackstands and a 2ton jack.

Thanks again. Please save me.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Put it on the a-arms. Jack up, install jacks under the a-arms. Repeat for other side.

Crux

According to these:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...ts-fbody1x.jpg
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...-jacking1a.jpg

I put only the jackstands there..how do I jack it there and also put the jackstand?
I had already tried jacking there and still didn't have room to move the bar..I suppose I'll have to somehow turn the wheel?

Thanks

By the way, the rain's on its way so my plans for the car today are screwed...but I've still gotta get prepared to try this again ASAP.
I need to get this project moving quickly, hence the double-shifts.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

The a-arms are large. Put the jack on the back side(or the front side) and put the jack stand on the side that the jack isn't on. It can be a tight squeeze depending on how you position things. Just take a good look at it and you should see what I mean. A jack with a handle that can swivel is your best friend in this case. You'll pretty much just have to play with positioning until you get it.

enswrob

low profile jacks work well for these cars

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Front... Stick the jack between the front tire and its fender opening. Put the cup of the jack on the swaybar mount.

Yes you have to do each side... and you may have to go left, right, left right... But it works.


Rear. Look under the car infront of the rear tire. You will see where the control arm mounts to the body. Jack up on that mounting point. Again, left/right/left/right.



Now, can you imagine jacking the car up after its lowered 2 inches?

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

mines dropped about an inch and a half and i can still lift mine w/ a normal craftsman jack. i put it under the front control arm (A-arm), i come in from in front of the tire, jack it up and support it either on the frame rail where the control arm bolts to or (for me, the subframe connector). then for the rear, i just put it on the diff and lift away.

Crux

Buying part of project on hold due to me buying a 1989 Pontiac Sunbird(haha..another 3rd gen...but j-body) as a temporary car for $400.(+$100paperwork, +insurance yet to be bought)

Other than that, the old engine is on it's way out and then I'll start stripping it down and cleaning the parts.

I decided to paint the block red..but blue and orange are possibilities.
I decided against black because then it'll just look like any other engine.

I came across a thirdgen firebird around the neighborhood where I work and he had it jacked up high enough to take an engine out from the bottom.
His jackstands were where the emergency ones were meant to go..but I've got my situation sorted out..just felt like mentioning that.
I'll go back and get pics later if it's alright with the guy.


My dad knows someone with a tank that can clean the parts for me..which should save me tons of time scrubbing and money buying cans of cleaner.

I'll go and pick up a power steering bracket when I get my car(new) on the road.

Project is still moving forward
Thanks for keeping up if you have.

Any questions, just ask.

Note: I recommend something other than masking tape..it doesn't stay on very well.

forkvoid

iTrader: (1)

Then clean the parts better. Or get better tape. It stays on just fine if the surface is clean and your tape isn't utter crap.

1989karr

Honestly, you don;t need a tank. Just dump all the greasy brackets, especially the aluminum ones, in a bucket of simple green and let it sit for a few days.....EVERYTHING came out sparkling clean for me! The grease just came off with normal water. I didnt worry about the metal parts rusting because thery are already covered with paint so its protected from corrosion and the simple green only ate away at the grease.

Crux

I don't have any real updates to offer, but I figured I'd post to say where I'm at and that I'm still going through with this.

The old engine is STILL not out, yet. I'm in highschool and I've got work right after so my only possible days to work on the car are saturday and sunday.
My camaro manual has gone missing.

The car's jacked up so I can get to the transmission but I haven't yet.

A hurricane's on it's way (*sigh*).
Money's been tight since I'm paying insurance on the '89 sunbird I bought.

1989karr, it's not the grease I'm worried about, it's the carbon build up in my intake manifold pieces.

It's time for me to jump back into this..

Later all.

EDIT: I decided to go reman. for almost all of the parts..so it should make the build go ALOT faster.
For example:
$250 distributor suddenly turns into a $90 distributor.

I'm hoping I'll still get the performance I'm looking for with reman..
I mean, the car won't be better than new(other than having a 3.4 block) but it'll be like new.
Any thoughts on what parts I should ABSOLUTELY go "high performance"?

Dale

iTrader: (12)

That thing is still 5 days out with no solid projected path. You got a 3day weekend coming. Get out, kick some a$$ and knock this thing out.

noahTHEpurdy

iTrader: (1)

Hahahaha. Yes!

grimmcs

iTrader: (1)

I would say go with the cam, valve springs, rockers, headers, high flow cat, and a 2.5 cat-back (Dynomax ).

I'm sure you've thought about these...and there are probably others that will add stuff that I missed to the list.

Also, how much prep have you done in the removal process? The engine/tranny removal took me about 3-4 hours...but I had a lot of stuff removed already. I would say you could get a lot, if not all, of this part done this weekend.

Crux

Back.
The hurricane hit and we're being hit by a tropical storm right now.

There are cobwebs in my Camaro. This seriously pisses me off. The tarp that covered my T-tops was blown off during the hurricane and so now I'm stuck looking at this awesome, unbuilt car every morning on my way to my no beat-up sunbird.

Prep done..everything on the engine's disconnected from the car but a hose or two and the engine mounts/tranny.

At least I got a moment to come here and give SOME kind of update to let you know I'm still in it.
I mean..I've got an $1,100 engine block sitting in my living room and I'm paying $85/mo. for the loan note it took to get it.

I already decided on the dynomax exhaust since it's the cheapest..and everything else, yeah..except for the cam.
The thing about the cam is that the engine block is already together. I'd rather not take anything out of it from the way it is. I don't know if anyone understands why not.

The heads are probably the most expensive thing by far..they're *probably* going to be the next piece I get.

Right now I'm really low on cash all of the time and can't really afford anything for the camaro.

Well..things should be getting better. My insurance is due to go down next month and I turn 18. Hopefully I'll get a job as a waiter then I'll be making 4-800/weekly instead of this 150/week I'm getting now.

Sorry I don't have a real update..just excuses.

Later all

SoSoFresh_SS

I THINK ITS GONNA TURN OUT GREAT DUDE...WE ALL GET REALLY ANXIOUS AND IMPATIENT WITH OUR PROJECTS, BUT TAKE YOUR TIME AND IT'LL BE WELL WORTH THE WAIT. CONTINUE TO KEEP US POSTED.....ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU FIRE IT UP!!!

F-Body Demon

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like your just about to the fun part! Just dont get discouraged and stop working on it. Try and keep motivated no matter what. Its YOUR baby man, and no one elses. And when its done it will be because of YOU...and no one else can take that from you. And trust me its a great feeling.

Crux

HAH!
After some financial problems..I got even more..BUT! I'll be out of it soon.
I'm making just around $1,000/mo. now..more or less.
My bills add up to around $450 usually..so I'll be able to start on the camaro again!
The first parts to be gotten are either the heads or the seats(I gave the guy half the cost to custom recover my front seats LONG ago..and I decided to go with 4thgen seats..that I never got)
Nothing this month, though because I got into some debt from my last job screwing me over for two weeks and a failure to yield with the temporary car..and new tires for the temporary car.

Anyway..
just in time for winter, unfortunately..but I can deal with the cold for my camaro.
I'm tired of driving this blue peice of ****..I forgot what it felt like to sit in a REAL car until I sat in my camaro again the other day.

Sorry guys, no REAL update yet again..
I'll get there, though

92RS3.1

I know exactly what your feeling man. Just stick with it. I just got a different job that pays well, just paid all my debts and tickets, so i can now work on my car and 83 pickup.

If it werent so wet and cold! Today will be my first day I can work on anything in 5 days!

Just stick with it.

Oh: I love the thread, and that block looks NICE!

Crux

Removed the rest of the intake and the valve covers. The heads are next. The engine's still in the car and attatched to the tranny.

I'm hoping on my income tax check to put a good boost into the project.
One of my W2s are lost in the mail as of yet..but so far, if I got everything back, it'll be around $700.

I'll see if I can get my heads "checked out". I'm not sure if there's such a thing, but if they can be proven okay, then that's $320 I'll save.

southbay08

Been following your thread, if and when you are ready to have your injectors cleaned, we will be more than happy to help you out. Take advantage of our 10% off discount. Type in code N665. We will provide 24hr turnaround with a before and after flowsheet.
www.southbayfuelinjectors.com

Crux

Pushrods are out..I tried taking the heads out but I'm having trouble.
My dad has a friend at a machine shop to check out the heads and clean the parts professionally...so we'll see what comes of *that*.

I broke an unknown sensor at the back-left of the passenger-side head.
Head bolts and rocker arms were 15mm.

d00012

Congrats on getting everything in order and getting back on your project. Just read it today, and hopefully in the future I'll use this thread as a reference. Unfortunately, I'm unable to find a 3.4L block around here. Not to mention I'm between jobs.

Crux

Thanks and Good luck finding one.
I, for some reason, really didn't want to get a used 3.4l.
So, instead, I bought through NAPA a reman. block...not cheap.

The weather's getting better, school easier, etc. I figure as long as I don't stop completely, it'll get done eventually.

Later all and thanks for the reply.


By the way: Sorry I'm not putting nearly as many notes as I had first planned. When it comes down to it, things are just common sense for the most part.
Maybe when I'm putting it all back together I'll try and get more pics/notes.

d00012

Yeah, the NAPA here sells the same block for $1800 that's way too much. Any donations? :P

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

The sensor is for the radiator fan, might want that one

Crux

The Sunbird died:


Threw a rod...I just changed the oil yesterday...Oh well.
That'd be the lower..outer(and now inner, too) wall of the#2 cylinder you're looking at.
I thought I blew a tire..and there was a huge cloud of smoke behind me. Turns out it was 4quarts of oil burning off on my exhaust.

I'm dropping the insurance and putting the money into the camaro. Without the insurance to pay..and since I'll be home more often..I hope to really speed up the build.

If anyone's interested in any parts for a 1989 Pontiac Sunbird Le OHC/FI 107,000miles let me know.
The parts may be compatible with Chev. Cavaliers of a similar year.
I could probably replace the block for not more than $200 but I'm taking this as a sign to fix the camaro.

Any ideas how this may have happened? How can I prevent this in the camaro??

Thanks!

d00012

Yikes...

Crux

After my parents talked to their friends the general idea is this:
I changed the oil the day before it blew.
When I changed it, only about 2quarts came out even though it was reading wayyyy over full before I drained it.
I took this as I must've just have been running low on oil.
They all think my oil pump went out causing a connecting rod to break.
It makes sense..the oil all over the front of my engine bay was black...but the oil I put in was new.

Thanks for checking this blog out. Later.

P.s. Apparently this is actualy pretty common..soo..take this as a cautionary tale. I know our camaros have oil pressure gauges though my sunbird didn't..if it did, maybe it could've been saved..so..keep an eye on those gauges!(of course haha)

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Im missing something here i guess. You said you changed it, and the next day the engine throws a rod. Obviously an oil issue. Something was leaking pretty bad to put oil all over the front of your engine. Yes no oil will cause pump failure, but something caused the no oil condition. Not that it matters for your sunchicken anymore, but severe oil leaks like that arent really common. You didnt notice oil all over the driveway or something?

Crux

The oil all over the engine bay I mentioned came from when it threw a rod. All of the oil came out of the about 3"dia. hole it caused and into my engine by, under the car, and even coated my rear bumper in oil. I was going about 90mph when it happened..

I had an oil leakbefore and so I kept an eye on it..all had seemed fine. It read full..but when only two quarts of oil came out when it came time to change it, I figured the dipstick..well...actually, I knew it didn't make sense.
Anyway,I put 4quarts of fresh oil and let it idle for a while and even drove it that day. Everything seemed fine and the car ran smoother than before until that following morning.

I suppose the broken oil pump scenario makes sense..because it'd have meant that the oil wasn't circulating s it should've.

Thanks again.

drdave88

iTrader: (3)

Ok I misread part of that, gotcha now.

Crux

All's well.

The engine's out and there's not much left to it.
The only thing I decided I couldn't do myself in this project is take the engine out. My dad decided it'd be easier to take the engine out still attached to the tranny...through the engine bay. SOMEHOW we managed it.

Next things to buy:
Full engine gasket set (2.8 or 3.4? will have to research..internet access is limited lately)
Engine paint for new block
Engine mounts
Water pump

Just a few things to get started..money's still a little limited.
I'll need a chance to finish taking the old engine apart to clean it all and see what I'm keeping.

The old heads are still on...unbolted but stuck on.
I'm stuck between getting mine redone and buying new ones.
The only machine shop I found to fix them up is $320..same price for new ones after core charge.

Looking at the empty engine bay, I'm thinking of getting new headers before putting the new engine in..while I have easy access to it now.

Thanks again, all.

Later.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Get the 3.4 set as the 2.8 has a smaller bore and you'll end up getting different head gaskets anyways.
Here's a trick I used with my cyl heads... Leave the pushrods in as you take the bolts off. The pressure from the springs will dislodge the head by itself. Or, you can do it the other way and pry on either the intake ports or the exhaust manifold with a pry bar, but you might break something.

drewdown84

iTrader: (2)

hey there... quick advice on masking the engine ports that you dont wanna paint... clean the area that the tape is gonna stick to with barryman's b12 parts cleaner and then put the tape on... to cut the tape to the contours of the block, use a rubber hammer/mallet and gently tap the corners... thats should cut/perferate the tape to make easy work of most of the masking...

also isnt orange the standard color for chevy blocks... =P... thats my vote...

and thanks for this post... now im considering a 4.3 swap for my 84 camaro... =P

jrsrnr3

Thanks for all the post and keeping us up to date. I think i want to try 3.4 swap.

ModPog84z28

one way to do it is get a scissor jack with a handle extension to start. i cant believe a floor jack doesnt have enough space to lift under the k member. all my third gens had enough room, could also try swing the jack sideways toward the wheel well and use that space to articulate the handle.

paint then engine for sure. its not just a look thing, its a protection thing. itll prevent rusting and bolt seizing to a degree, and yes it looks a whole lot better. ive actually found with my few swaps that 1200 degree silver ceramic block paint from any auto parts store makes the engine look pretty snazzy. gives it that aluminum look. and seriously isnt a red chevy block a bit cliche?

trust me the aluminum look is solid. when i sold my 84 with the built 350 in it, i painted it and the guy was convinced that had an all aluminum block and engine when he got their (tried to tell me what I had built, haha [he wasnt that bright])

neway good luck, ill be doing the same swap soon as well.

ModPog84z28

sorry i got halfway through and jumped on that one cry for help. hows the swap going? sounds like its been an ordeal for ya :S crikey if you didnt live so damn far away id be over there all the time helping ya with this thing. i love doing this crap, even when its a pain in the ***! haha. neway, keep it up, youve got the right attitude and plenty of drive. stoked to see it done!!