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My 3.5 swap project...

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Old 04-09-2010, 09:56 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Also, if you need a device that sends PPM to an ecm, but still runs a cable. Look at the s10 v8 swaps (IIRC "jegs that run"). They make a device that does both. It was a tad pricy back in the day, but did the job.
Old 04-10-2010, 12:53 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Maverick H1L
1. Are you using the 700R4 you mentioned or a 4L60/E? If it's the 700R4, you can just swap the speedo cable parts in place of the electronic VSS if you so desire, and you can use the existing wiring from the adaptor unit on the back of the speedo head to the current ECM (if the car has one) or retrofit that way. That's one option.
2. The electronic cluster was introduced in the Camaro in 89-90, and has it through 92. You'd have to ask someone else as to how to get to the cluster to remove it and swap. There are 2 tech articles on the TGO main page that you should look at, "Swapping an IROC cluster for a base model cluster" and "Swapping an Electronic Speedometer into your base model Firebird", the first giving basic Camaro directions, and the second on basic system wiring. That's the second option. However, to do this, you will probably need to rip out the whole dash to run some wiring, as neither engine system (V6 or V8) in the 86 Camaro had the electronic stuff.

I hope that will at least get you started in the right direction.
Thanks.. I am using a 700R4 from a 93 Firebird. I still have the old 700R from the car laying around (V8 version). I guess i could swap some stuff over...

It's an '89 BTW



I decided against using the stock mounts and went solid instead, just like i ran in my Z24...

These are tacked together but i'll fully weld them tomorrow. If the engine looks off-center in the pic that's just the way it lines up in the car. I remember something about how these cars have the engine offset to one side an inch or so and that's where this one wants to sit.



and the single stripe IROC's that will be going on it...


Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:30 PM.
Old 04-10-2010, 04:20 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Mounts are done...




Also, on the left is the VSS from my 93 trans and on the right is the cable unit from the 89 trans.. 93 must have had a different tail section than the older ones. The V8 one is too long to swap over or i would..



Yes, i know the gear is on upside down.


Next up will be headers, I'd like to find a set of 1 5/8" LT's but i doubt that's going to happen so i might just have to build another set from scratch.

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:31 PM.
Old 04-15-2010, 06:18 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

general update... 3500 stall, strut towers, fuel pump pickup assembly, header flanges and assorted gaskets have arrived.. waiting on my shift kit and a bunch of U bends to build headers with.


Sy/Ty pump is installed in the tank, just need to put it back in the car. Going to start welding in the new strut towers this weekend. I should have some pics by then...
Old 04-16-2010, 12:48 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

If the speedo drive unit that was in the car before the swap is the one on the right, then I would believe that either your car didn't have the electronic speedo or it was swapped out for a cable unit. That's a cable drive...for a T5. I've seen the cable drive for the 700, and it's way bigger than that in OD. I would also guess that the tail housing was swapped. You could probably swap in the electronic speedo, if you could find one, into your existing cluster housing (or just swap the whole mess, if you can).


I don't know what gear ratio you are planning on using for the rear, but if you have a 3.42, I can send you my old speedo driven gear (on the VSS). I have the drive gear as well, but it's cracked and useless. GM MAY have these available, but you'd have to find a parts guy who knows WTF he's doing to get the right ones.
Old 04-16-2010, 08:36 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

the one on the right came out of the 700R4 that was in the car. I don't know the year of the trans because it was swapped when they did the V8 swap.
Old 04-17-2010, 04:04 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Well, each trans has a 9-digit VIN derivitive stamped into a boss on the driver's side above the pan flange, but that doesn't matter now. Just make sure you can find the proper gears for the rear end ratio you're using. It would probably be easier to swap in the electric speedo, since, I'm assuming, the harness you're using with the engine has an electric VSS on it already. And also since you already have the electric trans-mounted VSS.
Old 04-17-2010, 07:01 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

yah, probably just going to go the electronic route depending on how hard it'll be to find a speedo for it.


It's got the same exact plug as the VSS did in my Z24.
Old 04-24-2010, 03:58 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I'm getting ready to do a simular swap. does any one know which years of camaro or bird has two starter blugs on the t-5 bell housing? (sorry I really dont know the cars)
Old 04-25-2010, 06:47 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by grn4dragon
I'm getting ready to do a simular swap. does any one know which years of camaro or bird has two starter blugs on the t-5 bell housing? (sorry I really dont know the cars)
I couldn't swear to it, but you could try the bellhousing used on the 84-85 cars with the V6 and possibly the L4, which has the starter on the driver's side. I think that the 2.5 Iron Duke has the same bolt pattern, but I'm not 100% sure if it got the T5 or not. The one in the yard I usually go to has a 4-speed behind it. I think the bell the guy wanted to give me, the one with the huge hole in it, had the starter bumps on both sides. Also try a bell from an S10, also with the L4. Not sure about that one, either, and if it does work, you may need to drill and tap the offset holes for the offset trans mounting.
Old 04-27-2010, 08:38 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

this should be really big help for anyone doing a swap with the start on the drivers side.
http://killerbv6.com/component/virtu...id=28&vmcchk=1
and more infomation about those that are looking at a t-56 six speed.
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/b...all/index.html
maybe good for a sticky?
Old 05-01-2010, 10:56 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

headers are tacked together, right now they are all at 26". Depending on what i decide for collectors i may add 6". I tried my hand at making true merge 3:1's and it's a huge pain in the *** without a bandsaw. I'm going to try a few different approaches before giving up though.

Some pics...

Passenger side:



Drivers side:





If anyone else is going to build headers for a 3x00 i highly suggest that you get the D shaping tool from wot-tech. It makes life much easier.



More updates soon...

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:31 PM.
Old 05-04-2010, 07:50 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

And more parts keep rolling in....


scored another set of single stripe IROC's with tires, Richmond 3.73 gear set, Posi diff, Chrome diff cover, UMI rear control arms, Disk brake conversion stuff and a light up Z28 radio bezel (going up for sale soon).




Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:31 PM.
Old 05-07-2010, 01:17 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Would you be interested in a third gen 700R4 tail housing so you can use the electric VSS? I have my whole old trans sitting in the garage, and I still haven't decided to junk it or not. The only thing missing is the VSS, which I haven't been able to find since I used it for some speedo tests a few years ago (making sure the speedo read where it was supposed to). I know I can get a box for that from work.

Also, seems like your monster is coming along nicely. Just thought that I should mention that I remember reading something a while back produced by GM where they pointed out that the optimal exhaust runner length is around 33".
Old 05-07-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Primary length depends on a few things, displacement, peak power RPM and the cam. Without using my camshaft specs the primary length should be around 26", but since i have such a long duration cam the primary length needs to be around 32".

Some more supplies showed up today, assuming my wife doesn't go into labor this weekend i'll be finishing up the merge collectors and adding the ball/socket flanges.
Old 05-07-2010, 06:15 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Subscribed. love seeing these builds. the lightweight v6 up front saves so much weight. And the handling will rock because of it.
Old 05-11-2010, 05:51 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Headers grew a few inches, up to right around 32" plus the true merge collectors. Just waiting on the ball flanges for the ends then i can do the final grinding and drop them off for ceramic coating.






Maverick H1L, Thanks but i think the one i have will work. I just need to buy a VSS for the '89 and according to the pictures i've found it should work ok. The only problem i have now is that i have to decide weather or not to install my 3.73 posi diff/gears. I might just stick with the 3.42 open diff for now to keep things simple and save money.

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:32 PM.
Old 05-11-2010, 06:36 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Purple82TA
I ran a 13.07 @ 107.44 with the Z24 and this same engine, it should be good for around the same times in the Camaro. 12's would be nice but for now I'll settle for running/driving.


Uhhhh.... really........ No offense, but.... really? Low 13's with a V6 in a Camaro? Am I missing something?
Old 05-11-2010, 07:03 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Dante93GTZ
[/b]

Uhhhh.... really........ No offense, but.... really? Low 13's with a V6 in a Camaro? Am I missing something?
The newer V6's make a decent bit of power, and are significantly lighter than a cast iron V8. So the weight loss combined with the near L98 levels of power can do that.

DA corrected i'm running low 13's about 105mph with a 260hp b-body motor. Cars only run 13.593 @ 102.37mph with 5* timing pulled due to false knock and a 1700 DA.
Old 05-11-2010, 02:39 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Yep, about the same torque of a 305 TPI and about 100 more HP and 300 lbs lighter.


I don't know if i'll hit the track this year or not, it'll be on the the dyno in July for tuning though.
Old 05-11-2010, 03:21 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

So you took a 327 out of the car to drop in a V6. Maybe I just don't get it but I have to ask: Why?
Old 05-11-2010, 05:13 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by 87WS6
So you took a 327 out of the car to drop in a V6. Maybe I just don't get it but I have to ask: Why?
Because the newer V6's make way more power than the 327 did?

Because he could? I'd drop the new 3.6L DI VVT v6 into my GTA in a heart beat with the Aisin 6spd. I'd drop crap loads of weight off the front end, so handling would go WAY up. The 306hp V6 would take the car down near 3100lbs if not lighter, so you'd end up running near 110mph with the V6. Start adding stuff like headers (ofcourse custom), CAI, tuning, and adjusting the VVT to give it more duration on the high end and I wouldn't be surprised if you could get it to run 12's all day long no matter what without any loss of drivability, fuel economy....etc.

Also with that much weight off the front end, the car would be very near 50/50, with the right spring/shock combo you could have a car that would go wherever you pointed it, no matter how hard you pushed it.

In the end, dropping a new camaro 3.6L VVT v6 into a thirdgen would destroy LS1 4th gens. It would be faster in a straight line, stopping and cornering would be phenominal on regular street tires.
Old 05-11-2010, 09:50 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Hey Purple, how is the swap coming along? Do you have the car back on 4 tires yet? I am wondering about oil pan ground clearance. If there is no issues with that, then I might scrap the LT1 swap I had in mind and just do this. I could make comparable horsepower and torque with alot less weight. And what will be your choice of ECM? I am thinking either a 7730 or 165 ECM could run this engine. I would kind of like to stick to mass air if possible.
Old 05-11-2010, 10:30 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

this might help...

the oil pan sits about level with the trans pan



Not on 4 wheels yet, i'm still on high alert for the wife to go into labor so my garage time is very limited.


I'm using a '7730 with a 91 Jbody harness and $A1 mask for now, later on i'll probably switch to $DF to try and use the launch mode stuff.

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:33 PM.
Old 05-11-2010, 11:29 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
Because the newer V6's make way more power than the 327 did?

Because he could? I'd drop the new 3.6L DI VVT v6 into my GTA in a heart beat with the Aisin 6spd. I'd drop crap loads of weight off the front end, so handling would go WAY up. The 306hp V6 would take the car down near 3100lbs if not lighter, so you'd end up running near 110mph with the V6. Start adding stuff like headers (ofcourse custom), CAI, tuning, and adjusting the VVT to give it more duration on the high end and I wouldn't be surprised if you could get it to run 12's all day long no matter what without any loss of drivability, fuel economy....etc.

Also with that much weight off the front end, the car would be very near 50/50, with the right spring/shock combo you could have a car that would go wherever you pointed it, no matter how hard you pushed it.

In the end, dropping a new camaro 3.6L VVT v6 into a thirdgen would destroy LS1 4th gens. It would be faster in a straight line, stopping and cornering would be phenominal on regular street tires.
To each their own I guess. However, since you put it that way it does make more sense. I appreciate the explanation.
Old 05-12-2010, 03:52 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Wow that looks like its a factory fit! The headers look great too. I am not real good with fabrication as far as headers go. I might have to pay someone to make the motor mounts and headers for me. I think I might use the 165 ECM I already have swapped in. All that I would need is a good tune. So far I am liking how things are going together with this. The 3500 makes about as much HP as an L98 right? It is in the 200+ range I know that without looking it up. How gratifying would it be to smoke a V8 with a V6?! Or that r i c e r who puts a fart cannon on his car and thinks hes the shiznit.

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Old 05-12-2010, 04:34 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Dante93GTZ
[/b]

Uhhhh.... really........ No offense, but.... really? Low 13's with a V6 in a Camaro? Am I missing something?
Well not to get too far off topic, but it's not only possible, it is actually common. The Pure Stock racing class has several v6's in the 12's and lower. My friend has a personal best of 12.33@106mph at 1000ft in Pure Stock 3800 4th gen. If you read the rules on pure stock, you would be more impressed by this since any altercation internally to the engine is not allowed (except cam and springs, lift rule applies), and he did this on stock cast exhaust manifolds even though headers are allowed - and to top it off he not only will pass a tear-down inspection, he has not even attempted to pull any cheats...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkjDMjf_lqw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8rdY3iDoK0

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Old 05-13-2010, 08:26 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

WOW!! Thats a V6?! That thing stands up like a V8.
Old 05-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

general update...

I finished the shift kit install. It looks like this trans has been rebuilt sometime recently, it was extremely clean on the inside with very little material on the magnet. Now it's got the modified street/strip kit from Probuilt with the 'vette servo.

My Hooker exhaust kit came this week also. I just need to make a Y pipe once i get the engine and trans back in.


Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:33 PM.
Old 05-21-2010, 01:38 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Purple82TA
general update...

I finished the shift kit install. It looks like this trans has been rebuilt sometime recently, it was extremely clean on the inside with very little material on the magnet. Now it's got the modified street/strip kit from Probuilt with the 'vette servo.

My Hooker exhaust kit came this week also. I just need to make a Y pipe once i get the engine and trans back in.

When my SLP 2otL muffler gets ready to go, i'm buying a Hooker Aerochamber muffler for my system. I found a Aerochamber that has a 3" in, Dual 2.5" out. I can bolt it right in place of my old SLP 2otL muffler. Too bad they don't make a stianless version. http://www.holley.com/21518HKR.asp



I love the way they sound on LT1 cars, and LSx cars too.

Or a Borla XR1 3"in, dual 2.5" out.
Old 05-21-2010, 05:58 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I've tested pretty much all of the popular mufflers over the last 10-15 years on V6's and V8's, the Aerochambers became my favorite very fast. I doubt i'll go back to anything else. Plus the flanged design of this one should make it easy if i ever have to pull the gas tank again.


I'm not much for shiny mufflers, a good coating of black paint is fine with me.



I actually ran this same muffler on my Z24 for a while with the longtubes and 3" pipe, I'll have to dig around for some sound clips.
Old 05-22-2010, 02:14 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Aerochambers are absolutely, hands down the best sounding mufflers out there, without being excessively loud. OTOH, generally I hate flowmasters but i think they sound good on V6's and I6's (have you ever heard one on a 6cyl BMW?)
Old 05-22-2010, 08:59 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by 83 Crossfire TA
Aerochambers are absolutely, hands down the best sounding mufflers out there, without being excessively loud. OTOH, generally I hate flowmasters but i think they sound good on V6's and I6's (have you ever heard one on a 6cyl BMW?)
I beg to differ. There have been 7 BMW I6's through my shop today, am a Bimmer enthusiast, and have to say I have never heard anything better that a Magnaflow on a straight engine.

For a v6 Flowmasters work good at idle, but have a horrible rasp still just before shifts.

Dave, you have inspired me, just sold my 3.4/3500 and am gearing up for a full 3500 swap myself - dam you (lol, j/k) - I was going to have to change the pistons anyways to bring the CR from 11.56:1 down to 9.1:1 since the engine was already completed and decided to boost it after getting a great deal on some parts

Well that and there are 3 3500's and a 3400 here at the shop itching to go into something hehe.
Old 05-22-2010, 10:40 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

lol.. get to work!


I spent a few hours on replacing my strut towers tonight, one is almost completely welded in, just need to grind down the welds and make it look pretty. Need to pick up some more sawzall blades and wire for the welder before i start on the other.
Old 05-30-2010, 01:55 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

And it's back on 4 wheels!





Now it's down to just getting the engine back together and finding all the nuts and bolts that i lost over 6 months.

I cut 1.5 coils from the front springs to make up for the weight difference, after adding about 450 lbs to the front end it sits about the same as my sig picture which is fine by me.

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:33 PM.
Old 05-30-2010, 07:41 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

What do you mean you welded in new strut towers?
Old 05-30-2010, 10:16 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ut-towers.html


I cut off the old ones right where they were spot welded on (the cap basically) and then welded in a good set that i got from thirdgen ranch.
Old 06-18-2010, 12:01 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I am itching for an update. Hows the swap going?
Old 06-18-2010, 12:56 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

It slowed down quite a bit, i went to Florida on vacation last week and this week i have family in town.


i took my headers in for ceramic coating and my block is at the machine shop getting new cam bearings put in. Spent a few hours at the junk yard today but came home nearly empty handed. I really need to find a parts engine.. and i don't want to drop $300 on a complete running 2.8 with harness just to take off the brackets, harness and pulleys then junk the rest. Seems kinda wasteful.


July 16th is coming up very fast..
Old 06-18-2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I could make a deal with you for some brackets and pulley's...
Old 06-18-2010, 07:06 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Fallen2603
I could make a deal with you for some brackets and pulley's...
How close are you to the quad cities?
Old 06-18-2010, 08:36 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

i have a parts 3.1 engine sitting around with all the brackets as well, pm me if you need something
Old 06-18-2010, 10:20 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Originally Posted by Purple82TA
How close are you to the quad cities?
I'm about two hours straight east of Davenport. Just PM me.
Old 06-22-2010, 08:52 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Headers are back from coating...




still waiting on a rear cam plug for the 3500 block, it's a dealer only part and they are taking their sweet time getting it to me. After that things will start moving along pretty well.

Last edited by DeathStarr89; 08-18-2012 at 10:34 PM.
Old 06-22-2010, 09:40 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

I got a rear-cam plug, too. If they switch between the 2.8L and the 3500, that is.

Headers look AWESOME, by the way.
Old 06-22-2010, 11:13 PM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

purple, where did you get your header flanges from?
how much did it cost you to have your headers coated?
and why did you that small of a ball flange on the collectors( it looks 1.5"ish from pic)?

Good work though
Old 06-23-2010, 06:39 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Thanks


The flanges came from wot-tech, it was $200 for the silver ceramic coating from a local place (Same stuff as jet-hot) and the ball flanges are 2".


Fallen2603, thanks but i already have one ordered. It should be in today.
Old 07-04-2010, 01:35 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

Engine is in!



Still a long ways to go.... and those are my shoe prints, not rust.

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Old 07-04-2010, 09:41 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

SWEEEET!

Awww...you didn't like that "awesome" small block chevy orange on the timing chain cover that I sold you?! LOL!
Old 07-04-2010, 09:54 AM
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Re: My 3.5 swap project...

lol, most of the paint came off when i soaked it in degreaser


I need to get the extra coolant hole welded shut tomorrow, after that i'll paint it and bolt it all the way on.


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